University figures drop as fees treble (From Daily Echo)

The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna
tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

Despite everything the government said, it was inevitable that potential students would be put off going to university. A three year course would cost £27,000 in fees even before living expenses are considered. That is a large debt burden to take on at the start of ones working life and could well fall foul of the "law of unintended consequences" like forcing students to take lower paid jobs below the repayment threshold or forcing them abroad after obtaining heir degrees. Having said that, one wonders whether we need so many degree students, especially in some of the more esoteric courses. There will however always be a demand from employers for students with degrees in the mainstream subjects like maths and sciences.
Less students in Southampton would however be a huge bonus!

Eh, so any subject that isn't academic isn't relevant in the real world?
Employment rates for students studying for these "obscure" qualifications are just as high as the "elite" students. It's just the old Polytechnic degrees under a different name. Also it's a bit rich Denham having a go when he was the Labour minister who oversaw the introduction of trebled tuition fees.
If you really want to go to university you'll take the 9k hit. You don't pay up front so it's not a deterrent for the poor. Turned out nice again eh Mr Cable?

Maine Lobster wrote:
The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna

tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

Stillness wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote: The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

To an extent I agree with your point of view, but not the 15 to 20 year timescale which seems to neatly lay the 'blame' at the door of the last Labour Government. Most of the cabinet went to university but not to gain politics degrees.....

thinklikealocal wrote:

Stillness wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote: The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

To an extent I agree with your point of view, but not the 15 to 20 year timescale which seems to neatly lay the 'blame' at the door of the last Labour Government. Most of the cabinet went to university but not to gain politics degrees.....

The name of the party makes no odds. They are all part of the same corrupt institution set up by the real elite to control the flow of money and privilege. Those that don't fall under the spell of government will mostly be mopped up by the church and the few that see through both of them will be a thorn in their side and need to be removed. You have been warned!
Seems like a nice day for a conspiracy ;-)

thinklikealocal wrote:

Stillness wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote: The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

To an extent I agree with your point of view, but not the 15 to 20 year timescale which seems to neatly lay the 'blame' at the door of the last Labour Government. Most of the cabinet went to university but not to gain politics degrees.....

I don't blame the last Labour Government, although successive Governments have allowed the ballooning of further education as a smokescreen against youth unemployment. Had industry not been decimated in the Thatcher era, we would have had more opportunities for youngsters in manufacturing via apprenticeships etc. Sadly, the choice for youngsters after GCSE's now, seems to be to find a university place or get pregnant and live on benefits in a Council flat.
I also accept the view that university places ought not to be the preserve of the rich. There should be free places for those from underprivileged backgrounds, but only for studies with a strong relevance to a future career in industry or commerce etc, not as a subtitle to three years on the beer with your mates!

Stillness wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

Stillness wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote: The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

To an extent I agree with your point of view, but not the 15 to 20 year timescale which seems to neatly lay the 'blame' at the door of the last Labour Government. Most of the cabinet went to university but not to gain politics degrees.....

The name of the party makes no odds. They are all part of the same corrupt institution set up by the real elite to control the flow of money and privilege. Those that don't fall under the spell of government will mostly be mopped up by the church and the few that see through both of them will be a thorn in their side and need to be removed. You have been warned!
Seems like a nice day for a conspiracy ;-)

.. gosh, you sound a bit like southy (but a literate version). LOL

University Maths exam: If the average student debt was £26k before the tuition fee hike and rises to £53k for new students. Repayments remain at 9% above earning of 21k. All debt is wiped out after 30 years. How much does a 2012 student have to earn every year after graduation before he pays back more than older students?

This country doesn't want clever, educated people. Look at the 60's and 70's when UK lost most of its highly educated scientists etc to foreign countries never, to return. The uni/college exists now for foreign students like the Chinese with rich families that can afford the fees. The slippery slope continues! The UK is the laughing stock of the EU and its a long way back. Look after your own is a good policy, surely?

freefinker wrote:

Stillness wrote:

thinklikealocal wrote:

Stillness wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote: The university culture which has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years had to change. University places used to be the preserve of the academic elite who needed to further there studies to allow them to progress into a relevant profession.Unfortuna tely, university has become an expectation for many young people who see it as a preference to going into work at a junior level. Many of them them spend three years at university studying a largely irrelevant subject which is unlikely to be of any relevance in their future employment. Those may account for many of the potential students who now are not taking up a place. They will probably find going into work and having that experience will be of more use than some obscure qualification with no relevance to any career.

I broadly agree with you but I can also understand people thinking that it's once again the elite (read wealthy) keeping the peasants in there place where they can be put to use making money for them and maintaining their estates.

To an extent I agree with your point of view, but not the 15 to 20 year timescale which seems to neatly lay the 'blame' at the door of the last Labour Government. Most of the cabinet went to university but not to gain politics degrees.....

The name of the party makes no odds. They are all part of the same corrupt institution set up by the real elite to control the flow of money and privilege. Those that don't fall under the spell of government will mostly be mopped up by the church and the few that see through both of them will be a thorn in their side and need to be removed. You have been warned!
Seems like a nice day for a conspiracy ;-)

.. gosh, you sound a bit like southy (but a literate version). LOL

Looks like the Echo are having to use the clockwork server again.

Wow! To be compared with southy is a true honer. Oops, sorry,horror.

Higher education isn't just about training for a job, its also about creating better adjusted, more worldly young people before they go and start a career. Even more so with access available to all not just the top 5%.
Many graduates will be our financiers, political aides, journalists and other professionals, university gives them a chance to discover themselves so they don't become our society's leaders with severe personality issues, they have been exposed to meeting different types of people and appreciating a bit of the real world.
Consider the current Cabinet with its 'poshness' and how out of touch it comes across.....
How about learning for the sake of learning as well? I know most Echo readers are fully captured by the logic of capitalism in every aspect of their lives (profit/cost benefit/profit) but literature, history and performing arts all have a role in enriching our culture, something in my opinion you cannot put a price on (despite the best efforts of the system).

userds5050 wrote:
Eh, so any subject that isn't academic isn't relevant in the real world?
Employment rates for students studying for these "obscure" qualifications are just as high as the "elite" students. It's just the old Polytechnic degrees under a different name. Also it's a bit rich Denham having a go when he was the Labour minister who oversaw the introduction of trebled tuition fees.
If you really want to go to university you'll take the 9k hit. You don't pay up front so it's not a deterrent for the poor. Turned out nice again eh Mr Cable?

If what you say is correct, why did LibDem leader, Nick Clegg feel the need to make a public apology over the rise in tuition fees?

I dont have much time for certain of the local universities, having graduated from one of these at the age of 40 or so and after an extensive fight to get into that institution on a discretionary grant and to have my fees paid. To get the grade I did on an Accounting (Hons) degree was an absolute disgrace - I found the qualification was virtually useless when I left and I never got a job with it, or I did not obtain any jobs that I would not have already received with my Inland Revenue experience and previous accounting qualifications.

I dont think that students get what they pay for in any case - £9000 per anumn for weekly 12 hours of contact time is not a bargain and shows to me that universities are just businesses and just out for what they can get. I now think that students are better off just going out to work anyway and working their way up.Nobody wants to be in debt for about £45k when they leave university. Its an utterly appalling indictment of our society.

The best thing someone can do is to use the Open University - at £2500 per anumn, its over in 6 years and costs £15k - bit of a difference over £45k. The way the university system is structured, its a shocking waste of time and is becoming a rich person's toy.

Linesman wrote:

userds5050 wrote:
Eh, so any subject that isn't academic isn't relevant in the real world?
Employment rates for students studying for these "obscure" qualifications are just as high as the "elite" students. It's just the old Polytechnic degrees under a different name. Also it's a bit rich Denham having a go when he was the Labour minister who oversaw the introduction of trebled tuition fees.
If you really want to go to university you'll take the 9k hit. You don't pay up front so it's not a deterrent for the poor. Turned out nice again eh Mr Cable?

If what you say is correct, why did LibDem leader, Nick Clegg feel the need to make a public apology over the rise in tuition fees?

Cleggers apologised because he went back on an election promise. Also it's a bit melodramatic of the NUS leader Liam Burns to describe poor families higher education dreams "disappearing before their eyes". He should be advising them that it's still viable to go to university. Not scaremongering them into believing they'll end up bankrupt.

bazzeroz wrote:
This country doesn't want clever, educated people. Look at the 60's and 70's when UK lost most of its highly educated scientists etc to foreign countries never, to return. The uni/college exists now for foreign students like the Chinese with rich families that can afford the fees. The slippery slope continues! The UK is the laughing stock of the EU and its a long way back. Look after your own is a good policy, surely?

I hope you are not being derogatory using terms like slippery slope!