Motorists held over cyclist death are bailed

The Scene of the crash on Mountbatten Way

The Scene of the crash on Mountbatten Way

First published in News

TWO motorists arrested after a cyclist was killed on a busy Southampton road have been released on bail.

The 48-year-old cyclist was pronounced dead at the scene of a crash involving several vehicles on the city-bound side of Mountbatten Way yesterday morning.

A 37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe were both arrested on suspicion of causing death by careless driving.

They have now been released on bail until March 19 next year.

Emergency services were called to Mountbatten Way near Paynes Road at around 8.45am on Monday after reports of a collision involving a bicycle.

A Hampshire and Isle of Wight Air Ambulance was called in but the man, from Wimborne in Dorset, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Mountbatten Way was closed for nearly seven hours as road accident and forensic experts examined the area.

On Thursday a Home Office pathologist will conduct a post-mortem at Winchester's Royal Hampshire County Hospital.

Police appealing for witnesses want to hear from anyone who saw the cyclist prior to the crash. Those with information should call 101 and ask for Operation Ruddy at the Road Death Investigation Team at Eastleigh.

To see how the story unfolded click here

Comments (78)

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12:15pm Tue 18 Dec 12

vag says...

R.I.P. fella, from a fellow cyclist. Condolences to the family as well
R.I.P. fella, from a fellow cyclist. Condolences to the family as well vag
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Tue 18 Dec 12

elvisimo says...

Awful for all involved
Awful for all involved elvisimo
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Brusher Mills says...

I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.
I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy. Brusher Mills
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Tue 18 Dec 12

hulla baloo says...

Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.
Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this. hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Tue 18 Dec 12

SaintM says...

I witnessed the incident which and the car driver was not to blame as i told the police although it was sad for someone to lose a life
I witnessed the incident which and the car driver was not to blame as i told the police although it was sad for someone to lose a life SaintM
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Tue 18 Dec 12

car59 says...

condolences to all concerned. what a tragic thing to have happened.
condolences to all concerned. what a tragic thing to have happened. car59
  • Score: 0

1:58pm Tue 18 Dec 12

2010chappy says...

This is tragic especially just before xmas. As SaintM said this has to be the most dangerous road for cyclists in Southampton, something needs to be done to either better sign post the cycle route avoiding this stretch and also signage prohibiting cycles from this stretch of road.

Before all you cyclists get you knickers in a twist think about the drivers who were invoved in this accident, regardless of fault or blame they did not leave home with the intention of killing anybody and will have this hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Also as a cyclist I have found it is better to take yourself out of the situation rather than rely on others.
This is tragic especially just before xmas. As SaintM said this has to be the most dangerous road for cyclists in Southampton, something needs to be done to either better sign post the cycle route avoiding this stretch and also signage prohibiting cycles from this stretch of road. Before all you cyclists get you knickers in a twist think about the drivers who were invoved in this accident, regardless of fault or blame they did not leave home with the intention of killing anybody and will have this hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Also as a cyclist I have found it is better to take yourself out of the situation rather than rely on others. 2010chappy
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Graeme Harrison says...

hulla baloo wrote:
Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.
Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving?
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.[/p][/quote]Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving? Graeme Harrison
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Torchie1 says...

Graeme Harrison wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.
Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving?
Try not to forget the two parents arrested at Holmsley camp site following the unexplained death of their child. Standard procedure which should not be interpreted to mean anything other than they were there at the time and may have been the two vehicles that were closest.
[quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.[/p][/quote]Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving?[/p][/quote]Try not to forget the two parents arrested at Holmsley camp site following the unexplained death of their child. Standard procedure which should not be interpreted to mean anything other than they were there at the time and may have been the two vehicles that were closest. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Tue 18 Dec 12

ohec says...

I have always said that where cycle paths exist then cycles should be banned from the road, cyclist keep moaning about the lack of cycle paths but when they are provided only a minority use them. Cyclist and motorist do not mix and more should be done to separate them but also more should be done to educate cyclist as many are ignorant to the dangers they often put themselves in, i cringe when i see cyclist squeeze down the inside of L.G.Vs or buses, but if you put that cyclist in that L.G.V and asked him what he can see he might have a shock even though todays mirrors are very good.
I have always said that where cycle paths exist then cycles should be banned from the road, cyclist keep moaning about the lack of cycle paths but when they are provided only a minority use them. Cyclist and motorist do not mix and more should be done to separate them but also more should be done to educate cyclist as many are ignorant to the dangers they often put themselves in, i cringe when i see cyclist squeeze down the inside of L.G.Vs or buses, but if you put that cyclist in that L.G.V and asked him what he can see he might have a shock even though todays mirrors are very good. ohec
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Tue 18 Dec 12

TEBOURBA says...

I cannot, for the life of me see, what possible good the DE inviting comments, on a tragedy such as this can do.
All it does is to encourage idle speculation from those with nothing better to do.
A man has died tragically, his family and friends are devastated, allow them to grieve in peace.
May he rest in peace.
I cannot, for the life of me see, what possible good the DE inviting comments, on a tragedy such as this can do. All it does is to encourage idle speculation from those with nothing better to do. A man has died tragically, his family and friends are devastated, allow them to grieve in peace. May he rest in peace. TEBOURBA
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Tue 18 Dec 12

vag says...

2010chappy wrote:
This is tragic especially just before xmas. As SaintM said this has to be the most dangerous road for cyclists in Southampton, something needs to be done to either better sign post the cycle route avoiding this stretch and also signage prohibiting cycles from this stretch of road. Before all you cyclists get you knickers in a twist think about the drivers who were invoved in this accident, regardless of fault or blame they did not leave home with the intention of killing anybody and will have this hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Also as a cyclist I have found it is better to take yourself out of the situation rather than rely on others.
I couldn't agree more. I accidentally found myself heading over that flyover a couple of weeks ago. The signage for the cycle lane is very poor.
[quote][p][bold]2010chappy[/bold] wrote: This is tragic especially just before xmas. As SaintM said this has to be the most dangerous road for cyclists in Southampton, something needs to be done to either better sign post the cycle route avoiding this stretch and also signage prohibiting cycles from this stretch of road. Before all you cyclists get you knickers in a twist think about the drivers who were invoved in this accident, regardless of fault or blame they did not leave home with the intention of killing anybody and will have this hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Also as a cyclist I have found it is better to take yourself out of the situation rather than rely on others.[/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more. I accidentally found myself heading over that flyover a couple of weeks ago. The signage for the cycle lane is very poor. vag
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Hdg end mo says...

R.i.p condolences to all involved
R.i.p condolences to all involved Hdg end mo
  • Score: 0

3:57pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Nod says...

Graeme Harrison wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.
Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving?
I was under the impression one driver knocked him off the bike, the other ran over him.
[quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: Condolences to all concerned, but am intrigued as to why two drivers have been arrested. Obviously more to this.[/p][/quote]Perhaps because because both of the cars they were driving hit the cyclist, meaning that potentially they're both guilty of causing death by careless driving?[/p][/quote]I was under the impression one driver knocked him off the bike, the other ran over him. Nod
  • Score: 0

3:57pm Tue 18 Dec 12

loosehead says...

All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would ,
So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road
All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would , So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road loosehead
  • Score: 0

4:06pm Tue 18 Dec 12

eurogordi says...

This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road.

Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path.

Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).
This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road. Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path. Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way). eurogordi
  • Score: 0

4:11pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Lone Ranger. says...

loosehead wrote:
All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would ,
So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road
Waterloo Road
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would , So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road[/p][/quote]Waterloo Road Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Tue 18 Dec 12

G0Rf says...

The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road? G0Rf
  • Score: 0

4:28pm Tue 18 Dec 12

downfader says...

The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility.

Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality.
The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility. Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality. downfader
  • Score: 0

4:32pm Tue 18 Dec 12

downfader says...

G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi
aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard downfader
  • Score: 0

5:44pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Torchie1 says...

downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi

aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

5:59pm Tue 18 Dec 12

downfader says...

Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c


om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi


aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that

- expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion
- local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government

The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways.

However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it:

- Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average

- economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year

- Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher!

http://downfader.blo
gspot.co.uk/2012/04/
do-motorists-really-
pay-for-roads-are.ht
ml

Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that - expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion - local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways. However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it: - Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average - economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year - Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher! http://downfader.blo gspot.co.uk/2012/04/ do-motorists-really- pay-for-roads-are.ht ml Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air. downfader
  • Score: 0

6:24pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Torchie1 says...

downfader wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c



om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi



aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that

- expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion
- local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government

The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways.

However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it:

- Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average

- economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year

- Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher!

http://downfader.blo

gspot.co.uk/2012/04/

do-motorists-really-

pay-for-roads-are.ht

ml

Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air.
Government figures freely available show annual revenue raised from motoring in the UK is approaching £40 Billion which suggests it is not me that's misinformed. Use your own figures to calculate the percentage spent on repair/improvement. Until you can eliminate freedom of choice, drivers will exercise their option to drive in the same way that smokers, drinkers and gamblers commit sins that you probably disapprove of, but they all pay a lot in tax to do so.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that - expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion - local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways. However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it: - Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average - economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year - Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher! http://downfader.blo gspot.co.uk/2012/04/ do-motorists-really- pay-for-roads-are.ht ml Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air.[/p][/quote]Government figures freely available show annual revenue raised from motoring in the UK is approaching £40 Billion which suggests it is not me that's misinformed. Use your own figures to calculate the percentage spent on repair/improvement. Until you can eliminate freedom of choice, drivers will exercise their option to drive in the same way that smokers, drinkers and gamblers commit sins that you probably disapprove of, but they all pay a lot in tax to do so. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

8:53pm Tue 18 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
loosehead wrote:
All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would ,
So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road
Waterloo Road
I use to drink in whats now a real ale pub & I just forgot the name so thank You I don't know why I didn't put two & two together especially as I come from around that way?
Once Again Thank You & A MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR!
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: All cyclists should be made to either go across the footbridge at Millbrook station & ride along the path way into town or turn off & head towards the Church turn right & go along that rd ( can't remember if it's Millbrook rd east or not) I personally would not ride a cycle over that bit of road but if you don't know the area you would , So clear markings showing the cyclist where to go would help. I feel sorry for this guy as he should have been save to ride there but it's not a very safe bit of road[/p][/quote]Waterloo Road[/p][/quote]I use to drink in whats now a real ale pub & I just forgot the name so thank You I don't know why I didn't put two & two together especially as I come from around that way? Once Again Thank You & A MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR! loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Tue 18 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club?
if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry.
But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs?
Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way?
Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road,
then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads .
but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man?
Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club? if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry. But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs? Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way? Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road, then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads . but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:17pm Tue 18 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

9:18pm Tue 18 Dec 12

downfader says...

Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c




om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi




aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that

- expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion
- local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government

The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways.

However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it:

- Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average

- economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year

- Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher!

http://downfader.blo


gspot.co.uk/2012/04/


do-motorists-really-


pay-for-roads-are.ht


ml

Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air.
Government figures freely available show annual revenue raised from motoring in the UK is approaching £40 Billion which suggests it is not me that's misinformed. Use your own figures to calculate the percentage spent on repair/improvement. Until you can eliminate freedom of choice, drivers will exercise their option to drive in the same way that smokers, drinkers and gamblers commit sins that you probably disapprove of, but they all pay a lot in tax to do so.
Again you are misinformed. £50 billion, not £40bn. No one is disputing the money raised is a lot, however a heck of a lot of it has to be diverted to other issues caused by motoring.

The fact is that motor vehicles cause a lot more damage than they raise in taxation. The more people bleat about "cash cows" and co the more people will look into the facts and find the truth. That then has a knock-on effect of making motoring *more* expensive.

I got many of my figures from the SMMT website, too.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]No. You are misinformed. DFT figures show that - expenditure on motorways is around £6 billion - local roads (excluding motorway and dual carriageway) are funded from Council budgets - monies raised from council tax and money given to councils via central Government The DFT roads expenditure in 2011 was £8 billion - most of that went on major motorways. However several studies (even those via Government bodies) over the last few years have hinted that motoring is COSTING the economy rather than funding it: - Rospa and the AA suggest a minimum of £15 billion cost to the NHS for dealing with road collisions and deaths - 200,000 crashes a year, nearly 3000 deaths on average - economic impact of traffic jams on business is estimated between £20-30 billion a year - Environmetal impacts of motoring are costing the economy well over £10 billion - the IFS suggest it is very much higher! http://downfader.blo gspot.co.uk/2012/04/ do-motorists-really- pay-for-roads-are.ht ml Funding proper cycle routes will save the UK a fortune. £12 billion iirc is the current 2011 spend on the NHS in tackling obesity, heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Traffic jams will ease up as they have in Europe when people turn to bikes, delivery vehicles end up with priority routes of their own. Not to mention the health benefits of purer air.[/p][/quote]Government figures freely available show annual revenue raised from motoring in the UK is approaching £40 Billion which suggests it is not me that's misinformed. Use your own figures to calculate the percentage spent on repair/improvement. Until you can eliminate freedom of choice, drivers will exercise their option to drive in the same way that smokers, drinkers and gamblers commit sins that you probably disapprove of, but they all pay a lot in tax to do so.[/p][/quote]Again you are misinformed. £50 billion, not £40bn. No one is disputing the money raised is a lot, however a heck of a lot of it has to be diverted to other issues caused by motoring. The fact is that motor vehicles cause a lot more damage than they raise in taxation. The more people bleat about "cash cows" and co the more people will look into the facts and find the truth. That then has a knock-on effect of making motoring *more* expensive. I got many of my figures from the SMMT website, too. downfader
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Tue 18 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

Good Idea LooseHead it is hard to find the cycle lanes sometimes.
Good Idea LooseHead it is hard to find the cycle lanes sometimes. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

9:30pm Tue 18 Dec 12

loosehead says...

This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
I was riding a Lambretta scooter towards the lights at Regents Park was slowing down to turn right changing gears & a guy from Marchwood hit me & luckily my coat caught on the scooter or I would have ended up under a Lorry.
I had road tax I had a right to be on that road but he was in a hurry & didn't think I was going that slow?
[quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]I was riding a Lambretta scooter towards the lights at Regents Park was slowing down to turn right changing gears & a guy from Marchwood hit me & luckily my coat caught on the scooter or I would have ended up under a Lorry. I had road tax I had a right to be on that road but he was in a hurry & didn't think I was going that slow? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:31pm Tue 18 Dec 12

downfader says...

loosehead wrote:
Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club?
if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry.
But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs?
Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way?
Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road,
then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads .
but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man?
A better website is the Cyclestreets one - it lists all the known cycle paths, cycle lanes, can factor in busy and quiet roads and even has options to display photos of the sights you might encounter.

Many clubs rely on known routes and plan extensively. Many also tend to ride too fast to be on shared paths (a lot of pedestrians tend to object). Initial guidance from the DFT used to suggest that speeds of over 18mph should be carried out on the road, but over recent years the DFT has confused and often deleted much of its own better advice regards cycling.

I think the point to remember is that there are nearly 6000 riders in Southampton alone - and most probably more that ride through or into the area from the surrounding boroughs and towns. Whilst there have been issues, we need cycling to help this town get through some pretty bad health problems.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club? if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry. But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs? Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way? Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road, then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads . but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man?[/p][/quote]A better website is the Cyclestreets one - it lists all the known cycle paths, cycle lanes, can factor in busy and quiet roads and even has options to display photos of the sights you might encounter. Many clubs rely on known routes and plan extensively. Many also tend to ride too fast to be on shared paths (a lot of pedestrians tend to object). Initial guidance from the DFT used to suggest that speeds of over 18mph should be carried out on the road, but over recent years the DFT has confused and often deleted much of its own better advice regards cycling. I think the point to remember is that there are nearly 6000 riders in Southampton alone - and most probably more that ride through or into the area from the surrounding boroughs and towns. Whilst there have been issues, we need cycling to help this town get through some pretty bad health problems. downfader
  • Score: 0

9:34pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Totton Boy says...

As a Driver, Pedestrian and Cyclist I wholly endorse these comments below!

First published on www.stewartpratt.com


Dear British Judicial System,

I write to you as a cyclist, a motorist and a pedestrian. As someone’s son and as someone’s father. As someone who seeks to go about his daily business in reasonable safety, and as someone who has no greater or lesser claim to that desire than any other in this land over which you preside, nor any greater or lesser right to it.

You fail me.

You fail me, and you fail others, because you are not there to protect us. This is your primary purpose: a duty of care, a memorandum of understanding that affords safety and equality to us.

Specifically, you fail us on the road. Here, there is no memorandum of understanding. There is no affordance of safety. And, most palpably of all, there is no equality.

This week you have provided three stark examples of your failure.

Firstly, there is the prominent case of Mary Bowers.

Ms Bowers was waiting in an advanced stop area when a lorry driven by Petre Beiu set off. Beiu had failed to observe the cycle lane and had failed to observe Ms Bowers despite her being visible through his windscreen for at least 10 seconds. He was using a telephone at the time, and was using it to give directions to a colleague who was also driving. He drove his lorry over Ms Bowers, had to be alerted by others to the fact, and failed to stop his vehicle properly. Upon being questioned by the police, he lied to try to cover his own back, denying his use of the telephone. He has admitted other offences.

The punishment for this is a £2700 fine and an 8 month ban.

I should point out, my dear Judicial System, that were I to be so abhorrently incompetent as to have committed that offence, such a sentence would have little impact on my life. The fine is not a punitive amount. The ban, whilst clearly an issue for a professional driver, would be inconsequential to me. I have a wife who can drive, and I can buy train tickets.

Therefore the message that you send to me, and millions of others in similar positions, is that I can destroy someone’s life, a life saved only by the country’s exceptional medical care, and I can destroy the lives of all who are close to them, with entirely negligible consequences to myself.

Of course, had Ms Bowers died, you would have been empowered to do a little more. But you chose to conduct sentencing while she exists in some appalling limbo. And you, the British Judicial System, make a huge distinction between someone whose actions result in death, and someone whose actions result in someone being in a long-term coma with no quality of life and surely a desperate prognosis; a state that some, indeed apparently Ms Bowers’ own father, might be inclined to argue as a state worse than death.

The difference is but a few critical moments around the arrival of paramedics. The difference is not in the actions, the stupidity, the incompetence, the flouting of the law, the deception of the investigating officers, the sheer danger presented to others. You choose not to differentiate so much on these criteria as you do on the actions of the medical staff, out of the hands of both the offender and the victim.

Let us, then, consider your second example of the week.

Yesterday, Wlodzimierz Umaniec was jailed for two years for defacing a Mark Rothko painting. The cost of repairing the damage is estimated at £200,000.

Now, British Judicial System, it should be noted that the damage done here is repairable. Expensive it may be, but it is repairable.

Moreover, it is damage to property, specifically a piece of modern art. There are four consequences: firstly the repair cost, secondly the inconvenience to the public of the work being removed during the repair, thirdly a potential loss of value of the original work, and fourthly some potential upset caused to some people. I would contend, especially given that a common purpose of modern art is to challenge and offend, that the non-financial aspects of this action are inconsequential in comparison to those suffered by Ms Bowers and her friends and family. Leaving us with financial implications only.

It seems strange that the action which has such devastating and irreparable physical and emotional consequences is punished by a derisory fine, whilst that with purely financial consequences is punished by a custodial sentence almost reminiscent of that issued to **** Riot earlier in the year.

Yet, my dear System, if this stark disparity in justice was not a sufficiently damning illustration of your lack of fitness for purpose, there is more.

The third example of the week is the case of Sam Harding, who was proceeding in a cycle lane when Kenan Aydogdu, having parked his car, opened his door directly into his path. Mr Harding was flung onto the road, then to be run over by the bus which was following him. He died.

You allowed Aydogdu to walk free. His actions were without legal consequence. This is, depressingly, nothing less than we would expect of you. Had someone accidentally dropped a piano from a bridge into the path of a car, my God, we would expect you to have acted decisively. But in this case, the driver is the party making the mistake, not the one suffering the consequences.

Yet, all of the above merely brings me to the point of my letter to you.

The point of my letter is that you miss the point of your role. Your role is to provide security, safety and protection. Even were you capable of acting in an egalitarian manner, your powers cannot provide any security for vulnerable road users.

You see, you miss things.

You miss the fact that a haulage company appears to be comfortable with their drivers operating telephones whilst driving, of drivers giving and receiving directions instead of stopping to consult a map or program a satnav.

You miss the fact that a court saw fit to – apparently unflinchingly – allow the statement that “there was nothing the driver of the 153 bus could have done to avoid running over Mr Harding“, when quite clearly there was: he could have left sufficient distance to stop. What should be expected of a bus if a cat runs into a cyclist’s path? (I should add that this happened to me only last week and quite clearly I was fortunate not to have a bus immediately behind me.) The implication is that it is quite acceptable to drive straight over them.

We all know that when one car crashes into the back of another, the insurance battle will not be drawn-out: in almost all cases it is the rearmost vehicle’s fault; they had been required to leave sufficient space.

Yet you allow this not to apply to cyclists. You fail to see bicycles as vehicles. You fail to apply the rules of the road to them whilst society and the media spectate and berate cyclists because of a minority who fail to apply certain rules, such as red lights, to themselves; whilst they are equally unfazed by drivers of motorised vehicles who do the same.

You are hypocritical in the extreme, and this is not becoming of an entity which should stand for protection and equality.

You have, apparently, no powers – and certainly no appetite – for addressing the real issues here.

There is no corporate manslaughter charge offered against a haulage company whose drivers exceed regulated shift times and use telephones in the cab.

There is no investigation into a bus company whose drivers roll over the vehicle in front.

There is barely a potent consequence for any driver, professional or otherwise, whose driving is littered with carelessness and lack of diligence and responsibility. Many thousands of drivers continue to talk on phones whilst driving, many thousands fail to adhere to all sorts of standards which should be expected of them, and you can do nothing.

Need I remind you that last year, when Peter Stubbs was killed by Charlie Willbourne, you gave no verdict. The driver protested that she was blinded by the sun, yet you deemed that wilfully driving into invisible space was entirely acceptable. You sent the message that driving a car into someone and causing their death was not something to which you would respond.

This year you went further. When Elizabeth Brown was killed by Daniel Mackay, you saw fit not only to absolve him of blame, but to actually make his incompetence his defence. The case, as far as could be gleaned from the reports, hinged around the fact that “another van had suddenly swerved in front of him, blocking his view until it was too late”. In other words, it was the fact that he was driving too closely to the vehicle in front that allowed the jury to excuse him for not having seen Miss Brown.

There are numerous other examples, my dear System. You have the records.

I put it to you that you are wholly incompetent.

Basic standards of care and diligence on the road are pandemically absent from the driving population.

The public tolerates this. The media ignores it. Professions institutionalise it. And you, for your part, legitimise it.

In the most literal sense, you legitimise it.

I therefore ask you to do one thing that cyclists often ask of themselves: Man the **** up. Start addressing this cancer of dangerous driving – and let’s make no mistake, legalese aside, carelessness is dangerous when you’re in charge of a ton or more of metal – and then let’s see where we are.

I hope you can change to address these stark shortcomings. I believe I won’t be the last to make this request.

Yours,

Stewart Pratt
As a Driver, Pedestrian and Cyclist I wholly endorse these comments below! First published on www.stewartpratt.com Dear British Judicial System, I write to you as a cyclist, a motorist and a pedestrian. As someone’s son and as someone’s father. As someone who seeks to go about his daily business in reasonable safety, and as someone who has no greater or lesser claim to that desire than any other in this land over which you preside, nor any greater or lesser right to it. You fail me. You fail me, and you fail others, because you are not there to protect us. This is your primary purpose: a duty of care, a memorandum of understanding that affords safety and equality to us. Specifically, you fail us on the road. Here, there is no memorandum of understanding. There is no affordance of safety. And, most palpably of all, there is no equality. This week you have provided three stark examples of your failure. Firstly, there is the prominent case of Mary Bowers. Ms Bowers was waiting in an advanced stop area when a lorry driven by Petre Beiu set off. Beiu had failed to observe the cycle lane and had failed to observe Ms Bowers despite her being visible through his windscreen for at least 10 seconds. He was using a telephone at the time, and was using it to give directions to a colleague who was also driving. He drove his lorry over Ms Bowers, had to be alerted by others to the fact, and failed to stop his vehicle properly. Upon being questioned by the police, he lied to try to cover his own back, denying his use of the telephone. He has admitted other offences. The punishment for this is a £2700 fine and an 8 month ban. I should point out, my dear Judicial System, that were I to be so abhorrently incompetent as to have committed that offence, such a sentence would have little impact on my life. The fine is not a punitive amount. The ban, whilst clearly an issue for a professional driver, would be inconsequential to me. I have a wife who can drive, and I can buy train tickets. Therefore the message that you send to me, and millions of others in similar positions, is that I can destroy someone’s life, a life saved only by the country’s exceptional medical care, and I can destroy the lives of all who are close to them, with entirely negligible consequences to myself. Of course, had Ms Bowers died, you would have been empowered to do a little more. But you chose to conduct sentencing while she exists in some appalling limbo. And you, the British Judicial System, make a huge distinction between someone whose actions result in death, and someone whose actions result in someone being in a long-term coma with no quality of life and surely a desperate prognosis; a state that some, indeed apparently Ms Bowers’ own father, might be inclined to argue as a state worse than death. The difference is but a few critical moments around the arrival of paramedics. The difference is not in the actions, the stupidity, the incompetence, the flouting of the law, the deception of the investigating officers, the sheer danger presented to others. You choose not to differentiate so much on these criteria as you do on the actions of the medical staff, out of the hands of both the offender and the victim. Let us, then, consider your second example of the week. Yesterday, Wlodzimierz Umaniec was jailed for two years for defacing a Mark Rothko painting. The cost of repairing the damage is estimated at £200,000. Now, British Judicial System, it should be noted that the damage done here is repairable. Expensive it may be, but it is repairable. Moreover, it is damage to property, specifically a piece of modern art. There are four consequences: firstly the repair cost, secondly the inconvenience to the public of the work being removed during the repair, thirdly a potential loss of value of the original work, and fourthly some potential upset caused to some people. I would contend, especially given that a common purpose of modern art is to challenge and offend, that the non-financial aspects of this action are inconsequential in comparison to those suffered by Ms Bowers and her friends and family. Leaving us with financial implications only. It seems strange that the action which has such devastating and irreparable physical and emotional consequences is punished by a derisory fine, whilst that with purely financial consequences is punished by a custodial sentence almost reminiscent of that issued to **** Riot earlier in the year. Yet, my dear System, if this stark disparity in justice was not a sufficiently damning illustration of your lack of fitness for purpose, there is more. The third example of the week is the case of Sam Harding, who was proceeding in a cycle lane when Kenan Aydogdu, having parked his car, opened his door directly into his path. Mr Harding was flung onto the road, then to be run over by the bus which was following him. He died. You allowed Aydogdu to walk free. His actions were without legal consequence. This is, depressingly, nothing less than we would expect of you. Had someone accidentally dropped a piano from a bridge into the path of a car, my God, we would expect you to have acted decisively. But in this case, the driver is the party making the mistake, not the one suffering the consequences. Yet, all of the above merely brings me to the point of my letter to you. The point of my letter is that you miss the point of your role. Your role is to provide security, safety and protection. Even were you capable of acting in an egalitarian manner, your powers cannot provide any security for vulnerable road users. You see, you miss things. You miss the fact that a haulage company appears to be comfortable with their drivers operating telephones whilst driving, of drivers giving and receiving directions instead of stopping to consult a map or program a satnav. You miss the fact that a court saw fit to – apparently unflinchingly – allow the statement that “there was nothing the driver of the 153 bus could have done to avoid running over Mr Harding“, when quite clearly there was: he could have left sufficient distance to stop. What should be expected of a bus if a cat runs into a cyclist’s path? (I should add that this happened to me only last week and quite clearly I was fortunate not to have a bus immediately behind me.) The implication is that it is quite acceptable to drive straight over them. We all know that when one car crashes into the back of another, the insurance battle will not be drawn-out: in almost all cases it is the rearmost vehicle’s fault; they had been required to leave sufficient space. Yet you allow this not to apply to cyclists. You fail to see bicycles as vehicles. You fail to apply the rules of the road to them whilst society and the media spectate and berate cyclists because of a minority who fail to apply certain rules, such as red lights, to themselves; whilst they are equally unfazed by drivers of motorised vehicles who do the same. You are hypocritical in the extreme, and this is not becoming of an entity which should stand for protection and equality. You have, apparently, no powers – and certainly no appetite – for addressing the real issues here. There is no corporate manslaughter charge offered against a haulage company whose drivers exceed regulated shift times and use telephones in the cab. There is no investigation into a bus company whose drivers roll over the vehicle in front. There is barely a potent consequence for any driver, professional or otherwise, whose driving is littered with carelessness and lack of diligence and responsibility. Many thousands of drivers continue to talk on phones whilst driving, many thousands fail to adhere to all sorts of standards which should be expected of them, and you can do nothing. Need I remind you that last year, when Peter Stubbs was killed by Charlie Willbourne, you gave no verdict. The driver protested that she was blinded by the sun, yet you deemed that wilfully driving into invisible space was entirely acceptable. You sent the message that driving a car into someone and causing their death was not something to which you would respond. This year you went further. When Elizabeth Brown was killed by Daniel Mackay, you saw fit not only to absolve him of blame, but to actually make his incompetence his defence. The case, as far as could be gleaned from the reports, hinged around the fact that “another van had suddenly swerved in front of him, blocking his view until it was too late”. In other words, it was the fact that he was driving too closely to the vehicle in front that allowed the jury to excuse him for not having seen Miss Brown. There are numerous other examples, my dear System. You have the records. I put it to you that you are wholly incompetent. Basic standards of care and diligence on the road are pandemically absent from the driving population. The public tolerates this. The media ignores it. Professions institutionalise it. And you, for your part, legitimise it. In the most literal sense, you legitimise it. I therefore ask you to do one thing that cyclists often ask of themselves: Man the **** up. Start addressing this cancer of dangerous driving – and let’s make no mistake, legalese aside, carelessness is dangerous when you’re in charge of a ton or more of metal – and then let’s see where we are. I hope you can change to address these stark shortcomings. I believe I won’t be the last to make this request. Yours, Stewart Pratt Totton Boy
  • Score: 0

9:41pm Tue 18 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

Sorry to hear that Loosehead. People don't pay attention and most have no clue about being a cyclist or motorcyclist.

I drive a car, ride a push bike everyday to work (come rain or shine, I do this to not contribute to the carbon footprint of this town), and have in the past ridden a motorbike.

I would be willing to pay something towards my use of the "motor vehicles" road, however there would have to be extreme investment in the infrastructure, and there would have to be priority for those of us not polluting the town and costing the NHS millions by remaining healthy.

I cannot describe how bad I feel for this poor chap though. Also for the other two guys but more so for the cyclist and his family.
Sorry to hear that Loosehead. People don't pay attention and most have no clue about being a cyclist or motorcyclist. I drive a car, ride a push bike everyday to work (come rain or shine, I do this to not contribute to the carbon footprint of this town), and have in the past ridden a motorbike. I would be willing to pay something towards my use of the "motor vehicles" road, however there would have to be extreme investment in the infrastructure, and there would have to be priority for those of us not polluting the town and costing the NHS millions by remaining healthy. I cannot describe how bad I feel for this poor chap though. Also for the other two guys but more so for the cyclist and his family. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

9:45pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Reality-man says...

This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
[quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!! Reality-man
  • Score: 0

10:09pm Tue 18 Dec 12

FFsake says...

As always on here people have too much to say and dont think about what has happened. This poor man was probably on his way to work after saying goodbye to his loved ones. Now they are not only going to spend Christmas without him but the rest of their lives. It should not matter how someone chooses to travel, other road users should respect that and look out for each other. We all have someone that is waiting for us at home and it is so tragic that one day it could be any one of us commenting here that could loose someone in this way.Have some respect for the poor mans family and think how you would feel right now if it was you in the familys shoes
As always on here people have too much to say and dont think about what has happened. This poor man was probably on his way to work after saying goodbye to his loved ones. Now they are not only going to spend Christmas without him but the rest of their lives. It should not matter how someone chooses to travel, other road users should respect that and look out for each other. We all have someone that is waiting for us at home and it is so tragic that one day it could be any one of us commenting here that could loose someone in this way.Have some respect for the poor mans family and think how you would feel right now if it was you in the familys shoes FFsake
  • Score: 0

10:11pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Adi Russ says...

Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident.
It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.
Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident. It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind. Adi Russ
  • Score: 0

10:49pm Tue 18 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
[quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

10:51pm Tue 18 Dec 12

derek james says...

Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
as someone who cycles to work every day i would not name a specific make but newer car owners do seem to be the most careless drivers after taxi drivers, taxi drivers rushing to their next fare and god help anyone who gets in their way, a menace to all on the road
[quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]as someone who cycles to work every day i would not name a specific make but newer car owners do seem to be the most careless drivers after taxi drivers, taxi drivers rushing to their next fare and god help anyone who gets in their way, a menace to all on the road derek james
  • Score: 0

11:32pm Tue 18 Dec 12

mr.southampton says...

eurogordi wrote:
This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road.

Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path.

Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake.
[quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road. Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path. Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake. mr.southampton
  • Score: 0

8:19am Wed 19 Dec 12

bigfella777 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.
Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road?
The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.[/p][/quote]Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

8:59am Wed 19 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Why do car drivers go on about cyclists not paying road tax?
If your that upset about paying road tax scrap your car/trade it in & get a NISSAN ELECTRIC as you don't pay road tax on an electric car.
Or are you saying these have no rights on the road as they pay no tax?
This guy was riding down a road & was killed by what appears to be two motor vehicles,the Sun being low is no excuse as in dangerous or hazardous conditions you are suppose to slow down.
I drive down that road to get to town & many drivers do far more than 50mph & just because the sign says 50mph doesn't mean you have to do that speed especially in adverse conditions.
I lower my sun shield & slow down as I to saw the effects of the low sun so sorry that's no excuse
Why do car drivers go on about cyclists not paying road tax? If your that upset about paying road tax scrap your car/trade it in & get a NISSAN ELECTRIC as you don't pay road tax on an electric car. Or are you saying these have no rights on the road as they pay no tax? This guy was riding down a road & was killed by what appears to be two motor vehicles,the Sun being low is no excuse as in dangerous or hazardous conditions you are suppose to slow down. I drive down that road to get to town & many drivers do far more than 50mph & just because the sign says 50mph doesn't mean you have to do that speed especially in adverse conditions. I lower my sun shield & slow down as I to saw the effects of the low sun so sorry that's no excuse loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:12am Wed 19 Dec 12

Brusher Mills says...

bigfella777 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.
Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.
I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.[/p][/quote]Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.[/p][/quote]I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle. Brusher Mills
  • Score: 0

9:29am Wed 19 Dec 12

S!monOn says...

This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
[quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof? S!monOn
  • Score: 0

9:34am Wed 19 Dec 12

Stevo98 says...

SaintM wrote:
I witnessed the incident which and the car driver was not to blame as i told the police although it was sad for someone to lose a life
that's interesting, a poster with a long record of hating cyclists, holding unpleasant and offensive views on cyclists and wishing them harm,claims to have witnesses the cyclist's death and says the drivers are blameless. had any real witness seen what happened they would know that it would not be wise, and may even be illegal, to speculate on what happened on newspaper talk boards. So, either you are deliberately risking a derailment of justice, or you are a liar.
[quote][p][bold]SaintM[/bold] wrote: I witnessed the incident which and the car driver was not to blame as i told the police although it was sad for someone to lose a life[/p][/quote]that's interesting, a poster with a long record of hating cyclists, holding unpleasant and offensive views on cyclists and wishing them harm,claims to have witnesses the cyclist's death and says the drivers are blameless. had any real witness seen what happened they would know that it would not be wise, and may even be illegal, to speculate on what happened on newspaper talk boards. So, either you are deliberately risking a derailment of justice, or you are a liar. Stevo98
  • Score: 0

10:00am Wed 19 Dec 12

Stevo98 says...

S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
Hang on, we've had page after page of comments saying all cyclists are lawless criminals, it's perfectly acceptable to say Audi drivers are often appalling, same with white van man, skip lorries, scaffolding lorries and pimped up 4x4s with blacked out windows.
[quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]Hang on, we've had page after page of comments saying all cyclists are lawless criminals, it's perfectly acceptable to say Audi drivers are often appalling, same with white van man, skip lorries, scaffolding lorries and pimped up 4x4s with blacked out windows. Stevo98
  • Score: 0

10:21am Wed 19 Dec 12

bigfella777 says...

Brusher Mills wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.
Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.
I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle.
You should know your facts, 14% of people in Southampton ride bikes, as a country we cycled 5 billion km's last year, that's a loy of pollution saved.
Did you also know that there are more pedestrians killed every year than cyclists.
Work that out, it's not bicycles killing people is it.
[quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.[/p][/quote]Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.[/p][/quote]I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle.[/p][/quote]You should know your facts, 14% of people in Southampton ride bikes, as a country we cycled 5 billion km's last year, that's a loy of pollution saved. Did you also know that there are more pedestrians killed every year than cyclists. Work that out, it's not bicycles killing people is it. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

10:24am Wed 19 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

I should add the MotorCyclists favourite too... Volvo drivers.

I am happy to take any of you on a cycle around town and let you experience how drivers behave. you will soon get onside when you are being cut up and being overtaken by something weighing more than a tonne, only a foot from your handlebars!

I should add I drive one of the makes I have mentioned. I am speaking from experience when I say that they treat you differently when you are on 4 wheels than on 2.
I should add the MotorCyclists favourite too... Volvo drivers. I am happy to take any of you on a cycle around town and let you experience how drivers behave. you will soon get onside when you are being cut up and being overtaken by something weighing more than a tonne, only a foot from your handlebars! I should add I drive one of the makes I have mentioned. I am speaking from experience when I say that they treat you differently when you are on 4 wheels than on 2. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

10:54am Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

TEBOURBA wrote:
I cannot, for the life of me see, what possible good the DE inviting comments, on a tragedy such as this can do.
All it does is to encourage idle speculation from those with nothing better to do.
A man has died tragically, his family and friends are devastated, allow them to grieve in peace.
May he rest in peace.
TBH I agree.

However having read half the comments I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are a lot less anti-cyclist than I thought.

Still a lot of "its unfortunate, but he really shouldn't have been there" type comments.

Condolences
[quote][p][bold]TEBOURBA[/bold] wrote: I cannot, for the life of me see, what possible good the DE inviting comments, on a tragedy such as this can do. All it does is to encourage idle speculation from those with nothing better to do. A man has died tragically, his family and friends are devastated, allow them to grieve in peace. May he rest in peace.[/p][/quote]TBH I agree. However having read half the comments I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are a lot less anti-cyclist than I thought. Still a lot of "its unfortunate, but he really shouldn't have been there" type comments. Condolences Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

11:01am Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Don't agree,

Motorists should just look out for cyclist, and any other road user for that matter.

Anyone that says thing like "people should be made to do..." need to consider what they should be "made to do" !

BTW there while cyclist are "allowed" on cycle paths goverment guidlines state that cyclist that can expect to exceed 15mph should use the road.

General ignorance i suppose!
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Don't agree, Motorists should just look out for cyclist, and any other road user for that matter. Anyone that says thing like "people should be made to do..." need to consider what they should be "made to do" ! BTW there while cyclist are "allowed" on cycle paths goverment guidlines state that cyclist that can expect to exceed 15mph should use the road. General ignorance i suppose! Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

11:05am Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c


om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi


aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
what is this fund "raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network"?
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]what is this fund "raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network"? Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

11:05am Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

Torchie1 wrote:
downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road.

Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there.

The Avenue has major problems too:
http://www.youtube.c


om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi


aE

Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.
what is this fund "raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network"?
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]The last figures I recall stated that the Government used approximately 20% of the revenue raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network which would suggest that there is no hope of seeing a 'Dutch standard' unless the guesstimated 10 million cyclists offer to pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]what is this fund "raised from 26 million motor vehicles to maintain/improve the road network"? Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

11:10am Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
[quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it! Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

11:11am Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club?
if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry.
But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs?
Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way?
Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road,
then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads .
but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man?
Because a minority of drivers think they can push 2 wheelers around and people wonder why some cyclists end up on footways even when it's illegal for them to be there? I mean it's like yesterday, I pulled up at the lights at six dials a van from a dog walking company called "Just 4 paws" tried changing lanes into me because the woman thought I should have been in the gutter and not in primary and I was just like "OI, I'm already here", think she also tried the old argument about the non-existent "road tax".
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Surely if this guy was riding a bike from Wimbourne he belongs to a cycle club? if he lives here but comes from Wimbourne then sorry. But could not Ordnance Survey do cycle lane maps to be sold to all cycle clubs? Or maybe they could get Google to do a cycle lane maps of the UK so people going to a new place can look up the safest way? Personally this guy should have been safe to ride on any of our cities roads but I know from riding a bicycle & having beer cans(full) thrown at me with the idiot shouting get bikes off of the road, then when I had a Harley Davidson seeing cars pull out right in front of me as if they couldn't see or hear me & then riding along this piece of road having cars cutting you up I would stick to back roads . but as part of all car/lorry drivers training you have it drilled into you to look out for cyclists & motor bikes so how come these drivers didn't see this man?[/p][/quote]Because a minority of drivers think they can push 2 wheelers around and people wonder why some cyclists end up on footways even when it's illegal for them to be there? I mean it's like yesterday, I pulled up at the lights at six dials a van from a dog walking company called "Just 4 paws" tried changing lanes into me because the woman thought I should have been in the gutter and not in primary and I was just like "OI, I'm already here", think she also tried the old argument about the non-existent "road tax". Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

11:25am Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Actually it's quite common to find that the more someone pays for a car initially and to keep it on the road, the more likely they are to think they can bully others, I'm not saying they're all like it as I have encountered some outstanding driving from such vehicles as mercedes and bmw's but a minority of them do end up like that, along with a minority of those who drive other vehicles, it probably has something to do with how much VED drivers pay and whether they think it's "road tax" or not.
[quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Actually it's quite common to find that the more someone pays for a car initially and to keep it on the road, the more likely they are to think they can bully others, I'm not saying they're all like it as I have encountered some outstanding driving from such vehicles as mercedes and bmw's but a minority of them do end up like that, along with a minority of those who drive other vehicles, it probably has something to do with how much VED drivers pay and whether they think it's "road tax" or not. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

11:33am Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

Adi Russ wrote:
Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident.
It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.
Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years.
[quote][p][bold]Adi Russ[/bold] wrote: Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident. It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.[/p][/quote]Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

11:35am Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Why do car drivers go on about cyclists not paying road tax?
If your that upset about paying road tax scrap your car/trade it in & get a NISSAN ELECTRIC as you don't pay road tax on an electric car.
Or are you saying these have no rights on the road as they pay no tax?
This guy was riding down a road & was killed by what appears to be two motor vehicles,the Sun being low is no excuse as in dangerous or hazardous conditions you are suppose to slow down.
I drive down that road to get to town & many drivers do far more than 50mph & just because the sign says 50mph doesn't mean you have to do that speed especially in adverse conditions.
I lower my sun shield & slow down as I to saw the effects of the low sun so sorry that's no excuse
I concur with loosehead.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Why do car drivers go on about cyclists not paying road tax? If your that upset about paying road tax scrap your car/trade it in & get a NISSAN ELECTRIC as you don't pay road tax on an electric car. Or are you saying these have no rights on the road as they pay no tax? This guy was riding down a road & was killed by what appears to be two motor vehicles,the Sun being low is no excuse as in dangerous or hazardous conditions you are suppose to slow down. I drive down that road to get to town & many drivers do far more than 50mph & just because the sign says 50mph doesn't mean you have to do that speed especially in adverse conditions. I lower my sun shield & slow down as I to saw the effects of the low sun so sorry that's no excuse[/p][/quote]I concur with loosehead. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

11:36am Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

derek james wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
as someone who cycles to work every day i would not name a specific make but newer car owners do seem to be the most careless drivers after taxi drivers, taxi drivers rushing to their next fare and god help anyone who gets in their way, a menace to all on the road
Don't forget van drivers, twice in 2 days I've almost been taken off the road by 2 different vans.
[quote][p][bold]derek james[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]as someone who cycles to work every day i would not name a specific make but newer car owners do seem to be the most careless drivers after taxi drivers, taxi drivers rushing to their next fare and god help anyone who gets in their way, a menace to all on the road[/p][/quote]Don't forget van drivers, twice in 2 days I've almost been taken off the road by 2 different vans. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Wed 19 Dec 12

2010chappy says...

downfader wrote:
G0Rf wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?
Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard
Downfader, I agree with your sentiments, but there is absolutely no need to ride along any part of Mountbatten way, yet this morning I past two more 'road warriors' riding on this very stretch.

The route needs to be better signposted and riders need to be prohibited from riding on this stretch of road.

It is not a motorists v cyclists arguement, it is about common sense. This is a major high speed road and a vital link for commercial and commuter traffic into and out of Southampton. You would not ride a bike on the motorway and it should be the same here.

We are 30-40 years behind the Dutch with regard to cycling and present economics say that ain't going to be fixed over night.

But a few hundred pounds in signage may save lives!!
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: The pavements along Bassett Avenue and The Avenue are for cyclists and pedestrians, but still get the cyclists puting their life and others in danger by riding all over the road. Maybe they should say that when there is a cycle route along a certain route then cyclists are banned from the road?[/p][/quote]Basset Avenue is extremely narrow blocked by a bus stop at one section - the road is very wide and the facility should have been placed there. The Avenue has major problems too: http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=gBbP0HYUi aE Perhaps we should build roads in the same way we build cycle routes here in the UK and see how long motorists keep quiet. Or you could all join us in asking for a Dutch standard[/p][/quote]Downfader, I agree with your sentiments, but there is absolutely no need to ride along any part of Mountbatten way, yet this morning I past two more 'road warriors' riding on this very stretch. The route needs to be better signposted and riders need to be prohibited from riding on this stretch of road. It is not a motorists v cyclists arguement, it is about common sense. This is a major high speed road and a vital link for commercial and commuter traffic into and out of Southampton. You would not ride a bike on the motorway and it should be the same here. We are 30-40 years behind the Dutch with regard to cycling and present economics say that ain't going to be fixed over night. But a few hundred pounds in signage may save lives!! 2010chappy
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

mr.southampton wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road.

Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path.

Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake.
I always cycle along a dual carriageway when I go to town and other than the itchen bridge which does no good for my phobia of heights, it's the only way I can get to town, besides, from Thornhill to town it's a 30 limit and going down lances hill I can easily exceed that yet I still see idiots driving their cars at 40mph so it's not the cyclists fault as legally he's allowed to cycle there, just like I could legally cycle along the A34.
[quote][p][bold]mr.southampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road. Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path. Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake.[/p][/quote]I always cycle along a dual carriageway when I go to town and other than the itchen bridge which does no good for my phobia of heights, it's the only way I can get to town, besides, from Thornhill to town it's a 30 limit and going down lances hill I can easily exceed that yet I still see idiots driving their cars at 40mph so it's not the cyclists fault as legally he's allowed to cycle there, just like I could legally cycle along the A34. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Wed 19 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
The amusing thing is I wrote it and do drive one of the makes mentioned...
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it![/p][/quote]The amusing thing is I wrote it and do drive one of the makes mentioned... This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Brusher Mills says...

bigfella777 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote:
bigfella777 wrote:
Brusher Mills wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.
Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.
I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle.
You should know your facts, 14% of people in Southampton ride bikes, as a country we cycled 5 billion km's last year, that's a loy of pollution saved.
Did you also know that there are more pedestrians killed every year than cyclists.
Work that out, it's not bicycles killing people is it.
What has your random facts got to do with this and the previous comments. I was stating it would be safer and I have used it myself the cycle route that helps avoid millbrook road and Mountbatten way, it's the sensible and safest option.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brusher Mills[/bold] wrote: I saw a cyclist using the middle lane on that stretch of road last week. With cars doing 50mph either side and behind him it's crazy. Why was this poor man not using the cycle route up millbrook road east, Mountbatten way must be as dangerous as a motorway would be for a cyclist. Had he used the correct route maybe a life could have been saved. It's such a tragedy.[/p][/quote]Hundreds of cyclists go up and down millbrook rd every day you muppet.What are you saying that cyclists shouldnt be on the road? The truth will come out that these 2 idiots were racing.[/p][/quote]I guess your the muppet if you ride on a dangerous stretch of road when there is a cycle route provided to avoid it. Cyclists do not need to be on millbrook road or Mountbatten way. If this guy had been using the cycle route this tragedy could have been avoided. How do you also know these two cars were racing, what an accusation to make. You need to get off your high saddle.[/p][/quote]You should know your facts, 14% of people in Southampton ride bikes, as a country we cycled 5 billion km's last year, that's a loy of pollution saved. Did you also know that there are more pedestrians killed every year than cyclists. Work that out, it's not bicycles killing people is it.[/p][/quote]What has your random facts got to do with this and the previous comments. I was stating it would be safer and I have used it myself the cycle route that helps avoid millbrook road and Mountbatten way, it's the sensible and safest option. Brusher Mills
  • Score: 0

3:48pm Wed 19 Dec 12

AndrewRH says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote: "I could legally cycle along the A34."

Yes! and Hampshire County Council and the Highways Agency seem to think it acceptable, as they have put down a bit of paint and a blue sign to highlight the 'path'...look on streetview at this interchange near Newbury:
http://goo.gl/maps/Z
NxFV


Let's write to our MPs and Councillors to tell them that we want roads to be made safe for all of us - irregardless of our choice of transport mode (legs, bicycle, horse, car).

My deepest condolences to all those affected by this tragedy. Let's us together push for change so no one else needs suffer the same.

Aside: I wish the charge would have been 'dangerous' not 'careless' driving. The facts of the case could then be used by a jury to determine whether only the lesser charge of 'careless' driving applied. (defacing a painting results in jail time whereas killing a person with careless driving cannot).

~Andrew~
Ginger_cyclist wrote: "I could legally cycle along the A34." Yes! and Hampshire County Council and the Highways Agency seem to think it acceptable, as they have put down a bit of paint and a blue sign to highlight the 'path'...look on streetview at this interchange near Newbury: http://goo.gl/maps/Z NxFV Let's write to our MPs and Councillors to tell them that we want roads to be made safe for all of us - irregardless of our choice of transport mode (legs, bicycle, horse, car). My deepest condolences to all those affected by this tragedy. Let's us together push for change so no one else needs suffer the same. Aside: I wish the charge would have been 'dangerous' not 'careless' driving. The facts of the case could then be used by a jury to determine whether only the lesser charge of 'careless' driving applied. (defacing a painting results in jail time whereas killing a person with careless driving cannot). ~Andrew~ AndrewRH
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Wed 19 Dec 12

AndrewRH says...

On the point about using a separate cycle path, I add...

If you want to divert people onto safer routes when they are cycling then:

a) make those cycle paths safe themselves (wide enough so room for people walking too; and no potholes, no leaves, no bumps*, no sudden changes of direction or, as in Fleet, sudden appearance of telephone cabinets in the middle of them!); and,

b) make the infrastructure guide you to the safe route using natural 'clues' (eg a well-paved distinct cycle route that goes direct like the road but is separated from it).

We can engineer diversions in rivers - like in my town of Whitchurch where there is a water driven Silk Mill - to guide some of the flow down a tributary. But just as you cannot make water flow uphill, the segregated bicycle route must 'flow' naturally so that it is 'obvious' that it provides a safe yet direct route. Then people will take to it naturally.

~Andrew~
*bumps are felt more when riding a bicycle: unlike as in car which has wider, softer tyres and shock absorbers
On the point about using a separate cycle path, I add... If you want to divert people onto safer routes when they are cycling then: a) make those cycle paths safe themselves (wide enough so room for people walking too; and no potholes, no leaves, no bumps*, no sudden changes of direction or, as in Fleet, sudden appearance of telephone cabinets in the middle of them!); and, b) make the infrastructure guide you to the safe route using natural 'clues' (eg a well-paved distinct cycle route that goes direct like the road but is separated from it). We can engineer diversions in rivers - like in my town of Whitchurch where there is a water driven Silk Mill - to guide some of the flow down a tributary. But just as you cannot make water flow uphill, the segregated bicycle route must 'flow' naturally so that it is 'obvious' that it provides a safe yet direct route. Then people will take to it naturally. ~Andrew~ *bumps are felt more when riding a bicycle: unlike as in car which has wider, softer tyres and shock absorbers AndrewRH
  • Score: 0

4:06pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

AndrewRH wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote: "I could legally cycle along the A34."

Yes! and Hampshire County Council and the Highways Agency seem to think it acceptable, as they have put down a bit of paint and a blue sign to highlight the 'path'...look on streetview at this interchange near Newbury:
http://goo.gl/maps/Z

NxFV


Let's write to our MPs and Councillors to tell them that we want roads to be made safe for all of us - irregardless of our choice of transport mode (legs, bicycle, horse, car).

My deepest condolences to all those affected by this tragedy. Let's us together push for change so no one else needs suffer the same.

Aside: I wish the charge would have been 'dangerous' not 'careless' driving. The facts of the case could then be used by a jury to determine whether only the lesser charge of 'careless' driving applied. (defacing a painting results in jail time whereas killing a person with careless driving cannot).

~Andrew~
Indeed, I do know the death lane along the A34 quite well, never ridden it myself but I wouldn't like to, I was merely stating that I could if I wanted but yes, Hampshire County Council should make it much safer as snaking your way across the slip roads is the complete opposite of what I would like to do but the worst thing is that that death lane is not wide enough AND it has no protection, they might as well have put spikes there and yes, roads HAVE to be made safer for all road users and the justice system certainly is screwed, since when is defacing a painting worth a heavier punishment than taking a persons life?
[quote][p][bold]AndrewRH[/bold] wrote: Ginger_cyclist wrote: "I could legally cycle along the A34." Yes! and Hampshire County Council and the Highways Agency seem to think it acceptable, as they have put down a bit of paint and a blue sign to highlight the 'path'...look on streetview at this interchange near Newbury: http://goo.gl/maps/Z NxFV Let's write to our MPs and Councillors to tell them that we want roads to be made safe for all of us - irregardless of our choice of transport mode (legs, bicycle, horse, car). My deepest condolences to all those affected by this tragedy. Let's us together push for change so no one else needs suffer the same. Aside: I wish the charge would have been 'dangerous' not 'careless' driving. The facts of the case could then be used by a jury to determine whether only the lesser charge of 'careless' driving applied. (defacing a painting results in jail time whereas killing a person with careless driving cannot). ~Andrew~[/p][/quote]Indeed, I do know the death lane along the A34 quite well, never ridden it myself but I wouldn't like to, I was merely stating that I could if I wanted but yes, Hampshire County Council should make it much safer as snaking your way across the slip roads is the complete opposite of what I would like to do but the worst thing is that that death lane is not wide enough AND it has no protection, they might as well have put spikes there and yes, roads HAVE to be made safer for all road users and the justice system certainly is screwed, since when is defacing a painting worth a heavier punishment than taking a persons life? Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

4:10pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

AndrewRH wrote:
On the point about using a separate cycle path, I add...

If you want to divert people onto safer routes when they are cycling then:

a) make those cycle paths safe themselves (wide enough so room for people walking too; and no potholes, no leaves, no bumps*, no sudden changes of direction or, as in Fleet, sudden appearance of telephone cabinets in the middle of them!); and,

b) make the infrastructure guide you to the safe route using natural 'clues' (eg a well-paved distinct cycle route that goes direct like the road but is separated from it).

We can engineer diversions in rivers - like in my town of Whitchurch where there is a water driven Silk Mill - to guide some of the flow down a tributary. But just as you cannot make water flow uphill, the segregated bicycle route must 'flow' naturally so that it is 'obvious' that it provides a safe yet direct route. Then people will take to it naturally.

~Andrew~
*bumps are felt more when riding a bicycle: unlike as in car which has wider, softer tyres and shock absorbers
I agree with this.
[quote][p][bold]AndrewRH[/bold] wrote: On the point about using a separate cycle path, I add... If you want to divert people onto safer routes when they are cycling then: a) make those cycle paths safe themselves (wide enough so room for people walking too; and no potholes, no leaves, no bumps*, no sudden changes of direction or, as in Fleet, sudden appearance of telephone cabinets in the middle of them!); and, b) make the infrastructure guide you to the safe route using natural 'clues' (eg a well-paved distinct cycle route that goes direct like the road but is separated from it). We can engineer diversions in rivers - like in my town of Whitchurch where there is a water driven Silk Mill - to guide some of the flow down a tributary. But just as you cannot make water flow uphill, the segregated bicycle route must 'flow' naturally so that it is 'obvious' that it provides a safe yet direct route. Then people will take to it naturally. ~Andrew~ *bumps are felt more when riding a bicycle: unlike as in car which has wider, softer tyres and shock absorbers[/p][/quote]I agree with this. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ohec says...

downfader wrote:
The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility.

Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality.
That maybe the case but if cyclist want better facilities then perhaps they should pay for them.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility. Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality.[/p][/quote]That maybe the case but if cyclist want better facilities then perhaps they should pay for them. ohec
  • Score: 0

4:28pm Wed 19 Dec 12

S!monOn says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it![/p][/quote]The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable. S!monOn
  • Score: 0

5:00pm Wed 19 Dec 12

cyclejim says...

ohec wrote:
downfader wrote:
The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility.

Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality.
That maybe the case but if cyclist want better facilities then perhaps they should pay for them.
It would come out of general taxation so we'd all be paying for it. Exactly the same as the roads and plenty of other things that are used by some and not others. For example, plenty of the tax I pay goes towards maintaining a motorway network that I don't ride my bike on.
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: The cyclist was from Wimbourne.. there is potential that they had no idea there was an off-road facility. Ohec and co - you have it confused - cyclists (and other parties sympathetic like the AA) do call for decent cycle infrastructure, but more like the Dutch standard which works, is held to a legal standard, none of the facilities we have in the UK yet meet anywhere near that quality.[/p][/quote]That maybe the case but if cyclist want better facilities then perhaps they should pay for them.[/p][/quote]It would come out of general taxation so we'd all be paying for it. Exactly the same as the roads and plenty of other things that are used by some and not others. For example, plenty of the tax I pay goes towards maintaining a motorway network that I don't ride my bike on. cyclejim
  • Score: 0

5:02pm Wed 19 Dec 12

cyclejim says...

I wonder if the driver of the 2nd vehicle was following the 'two second rule'. I'll let people who use the road on a regular basis decide for themselves how closely behind the next vehicle traffic often does at 50mph along that stretch
I wonder if the driver of the 2nd vehicle was following the 'two second rule'. I'll let people who use the road on a regular basis decide for themselves how closely behind the next vehicle traffic often does at 50mph along that stretch cyclejim
  • Score: 0

5:19pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Adi Russ says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Adi Russ wrote:
Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident.
It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.
Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years.
I didn't say its an excuse. There is no excuse for killing somebody. I merely stated it may have been a contributing factor.
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adi Russ[/bold] wrote: Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident. It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.[/p][/quote]Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years.[/p][/quote]I didn't say its an excuse. There is no excuse for killing somebody. I merely stated it may have been a contributing factor. Adi Russ
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Ginger_cyclist says...

Adi Russ wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
Adi Russ wrote:
Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident.
It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.
Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years.
I didn't say its an excuse. There is no excuse for killing somebody. I merely stated it may have been a contributing factor.
Fair enough.
[quote][p][bold]Adi Russ[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Adi Russ[/bold] wrote: Luckily, I wasn't driving towards Southampton yesterday morning but it was a very sunny morning. Maybe the very low sun and glare from the wet road surface contributed to this incident. It sounds as if the cyclist was trying his best to been seen, by the clothing he was wearing, but I am sure all drivers have experienced that moment when the sun completley blinds you. The only answer to this is I guess to slow down, but this can put you at risk of being rammed by the driver behind.[/p][/quote]Being blinded by glare is still no excuse, even if it is what happened then I should think the drivers are charged with manslaughter at the VERY least which carries a sentence of a couple of years.[/p][/quote]I didn't say its an excuse. There is no excuse for killing somebody. I merely stated it may have been a contributing factor.[/p][/quote]Fair enough. Ginger_cyclist
  • Score: 0

6:56pm Wed 19 Dec 12

cjnjpj says...

This is my first input. I was there as it unfolded.
I am a cyclist, motorist and was on my way to work on my motorcycle when this terrible event occurred.
I have seen some bizarre comments and have shook my head in disbelief.
Fact is, I too was blinded by the sun. The brightness completely took me and other drivers by surprise. It was unnerving and my instant thought was that another vehicle would rear end me due to the brightness.Be careful at laying blame for reckless driving.Foolhardy indeed.
I saw the poor man on the road as well as cars that had stopped and people running back. Not nice. It happened so quickly.
I have submitted my statement to the police and hope that my evidence will help.
My sympathies are very much with the cyclist and his family as well as those drivers. It is a tradgedy for all concerned.
Last year I also cycled on that stretch of road but something told me not too and I have always used the cycle path since.
Just maybe ,my comments as a witness, cyclist, motorist helps put some light on this.
This is my first input. I was there as it unfolded. I am a cyclist, motorist and was on my way to work on my motorcycle when this terrible event occurred. I have seen some bizarre comments and have shook my head in disbelief. Fact is, I too was blinded by the sun. The brightness completely took me and other drivers by surprise. It was unnerving and my instant thought was that another vehicle would rear end me due to the brightness.Be careful at laying blame for reckless driving.Foolhardy indeed. I saw the poor man on the road as well as cars that had stopped and people running back. Not nice. It happened so quickly. I have submitted my statement to the police and hope that my evidence will help. My sympathies are very much with the cyclist and his family as well as those drivers. It is a tradgedy for all concerned. Last year I also cycled on that stretch of road but something told me not too and I have always used the cycle path since. Just maybe ,my comments as a witness, cyclist, motorist helps put some light on this. cjnjpj
  • Score: 0

8:56pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Jesus_02 says...

S!monOn wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.
Really don't understand your comment.

I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle.

I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver

What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make.

Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some
[quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it![/p][/quote]The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.[/p][/quote]Really don't understand your comment. I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle. I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make. Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

8:58pm Wed 19 Dec 12

loosehead says...

cjnjpj wrote:
This is my first input. I was there as it unfolded.
I am a cyclist, motorist and was on my way to work on my motorcycle when this terrible event occurred.
I have seen some bizarre comments and have shook my head in disbelief.
Fact is, I too was blinded by the sun. The brightness completely took me and other drivers by surprise. It was unnerving and my instant thought was that another vehicle would rear end me due to the brightness.Be careful at laying blame for reckless driving.Foolhardy indeed.
I saw the poor man on the road as well as cars that had stopped and people running back. Not nice. It happened so quickly.
I have submitted my statement to the police and hope that my evidence will help.
My sympathies are very much with the cyclist and his family as well as those drivers. It is a tradgedy for all concerned.
Last year I also cycled on that stretch of road but something told me not too and I have always used the cycle path since.
Just maybe ,my comments as a witness, cyclist, motorist helps put some light on this.
Can I ask you did your crash helmet have sun protectors?
I went to Shirley on Tuesday & I was hit by the sun but in my car you have a panel you can bring down to block it so I did & I slowed down.
I have already said that if I was riding on a bicycle & I was going to a strange town I'd look & see if there was a map of the cycle lanes in that area or look for a route in which was safer than a three lane carriageway ,
Can you tell me what speeds those two vehicles were going at?
Look as I drive down that road & as I've been hit whilst on a Scooter I know exactly what it's like.
to say the sun was blinding wasn't this the case all down that road? If it was didn't people slow down?
If you get hit from behind because you slow in adverse conditions then the other driver is guilty of reckless driving it's no excuse to carry on at 50mph when as you say your being blinded by the sun.
If it's that bad to impair your vision you should cut speed & if to bad pull off the road & stop when it's safe to do.
If like you people carried on driving it couldn't have been that bad could it?
[quote][p][bold]cjnjpj[/bold] wrote: This is my first input. I was there as it unfolded. I am a cyclist, motorist and was on my way to work on my motorcycle when this terrible event occurred. I have seen some bizarre comments and have shook my head in disbelief. Fact is, I too was blinded by the sun. The brightness completely took me and other drivers by surprise. It was unnerving and my instant thought was that another vehicle would rear end me due to the brightness.Be careful at laying blame for reckless driving.Foolhardy indeed. I saw the poor man on the road as well as cars that had stopped and people running back. Not nice. It happened so quickly. I have submitted my statement to the police and hope that my evidence will help. My sympathies are very much with the cyclist and his family as well as those drivers. It is a tradgedy for all concerned. Last year I also cycled on that stretch of road but something told me not too and I have always used the cycle path since. Just maybe ,my comments as a witness, cyclist, motorist helps put some light on this.[/p][/quote]Can I ask you did your crash helmet have sun protectors? I went to Shirley on Tuesday & I was hit by the sun but in my car you have a panel you can bring down to block it so I did & I slowed down. I have already said that if I was riding on a bicycle & I was going to a strange town I'd look & see if there was a map of the cycle lanes in that area or look for a route in which was safer than a three lane carriageway , Can you tell me what speeds those two vehicles were going at? Look as I drive down that road & as I've been hit whilst on a Scooter I know exactly what it's like. to say the sun was blinding wasn't this the case all down that road? If it was didn't people slow down? If you get hit from behind because you slow in adverse conditions then the other driver is guilty of reckless driving it's no excuse to carry on at 50mph when as you say your being blinded by the sun. If it's that bad to impair your vision you should cut speed & if to bad pull off the road & stop when it's safe to do. If like you people carried on driving it couldn't have been that bad could it? loosehead
  • Score: 0

11:17pm Wed 19 Dec 12

mr.southampton says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
mr.southampton wrote:
eurogordi wrote:
This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road.

Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path.

Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake.
I always cycle along a dual carriageway when I go to town and other than the itchen bridge which does no good for my phobia of heights, it's the only way I can get to town, besides, from Thornhill to town it's a 30 limit and going down lances hill I can easily exceed that yet I still see idiots driving their cars at 40mph so it's not the cyclists fault as legally he's allowed to cycle there, just like I could legally cycle along the A34.
Not saying it is the cyclists fault, and yes they are legally allowed to be there.

At the end of the day you choose what feels safe for yourself. I mean you can legally walk down a dark alleyway at night as long as its a public foot-path, but it's entirely up to you whether you do so.
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mr.southampton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eurogordi[/bold] wrote: This is a tragedy, but as a cyclist AND a motorist I am sorry to say that the deceased person should not have been cycling along that stretch of road. Personally I feel there is sufficient signage directing cyclists to the cycle route but, unfortunately, there is a certain type of cyclist that prefers not to use the cycle path. Yes, it might take longer and parts of the cycle network does need urgent maintenance, but it is much safer than trying to cycle on the road (ie. Redbridge and Millbrook flyovers plus Mountbatten Way).[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more. As someone who has clocked up a lot of miles on my bike and is fairly confident, I'd never consider riding down any kind of dual carriageway it's just not safe as at the end of the day, sadly, it only takes one driver to make a mistake.[/p][/quote]I always cycle along a dual carriageway when I go to town and other than the itchen bridge which does no good for my phobia of heights, it's the only way I can get to town, besides, from Thornhill to town it's a 30 limit and going down lances hill I can easily exceed that yet I still see idiots driving their cars at 40mph so it's not the cyclists fault as legally he's allowed to cycle there, just like I could legally cycle along the A34.[/p][/quote]Not saying it is the cyclists fault, and yes they are legally allowed to be there. At the end of the day you choose what feels safe for yourself. I mean you can legally walk down a dark alleyway at night as long as its a public foot-path, but it's entirely up to you whether you do so. mr.southampton
  • Score: 0

10:05am Thu 20 Dec 12

S!monOn says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.
Really don't understand your comment.

I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle.

I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver

What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make.

Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some
You've misunderstood. I have no problem with cyclists on the road. They have every right to be.

I'm amused about how you become so defensive when someone mention of your jealousy of other people who drive a certain make of car.

Just because you can't afford one, doesn't mean people, who have families just like you, who also enjoy riding motorbikes, just like you, shouldn't have one.

Let me put it this way - don't judge people when you don't know them you plum.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it![/p][/quote]The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.[/p][/quote]Really don't understand your comment. I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle. I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make. Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some[/p][/quote]You've misunderstood. I have no problem with cyclists on the road. They have every right to be. I'm amused about how you become so defensive when someone mention of your jealousy of other people who drive a certain make of car. Just because you can't afford one, doesn't mean people, who have families just like you, who also enjoy riding motorbikes, just like you, shouldn't have one. Let me put it this way - don't judge people when you don't know them you plum. S!monOn
  • Score: 0

11:16am Thu 20 Dec 12

This_DAMN_Town says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
S!monOn wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
Reality-man wrote:
This_DAMN_Town wrote:
A terrible tragedy for all involved.

Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following:

"37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe"

The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van.

Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves.

A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.
And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to.........

Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!!
Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time.

FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family.

I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.
If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment.

"The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?
I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned!

Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it!
The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.
Really don't understand your comment.

I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle.

I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver

What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make.

Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some
As I have already stated I drive one of the cars in my supposedly dumbest comment. It was a generalisation. If you are a decent motorist then I am sorry, however in my experience (and other people I know who ride regularly 100+ miles per week) those manufacturers I mention are the bane of our lives.

Taxis, vans, lorries, buses, and the Chelsea tractor brigade doing the school run with mum don't need a mention we all know what they are like.

As for how this is paid for I think it is already budgeted for but the way the money is spent is not appropriate. They do the minimum possible and then claim some great shakes at helping people ride in the city.

If an electric car pays no road tax then why should cyclist. Who do no damage to the roads, or use any carbon emitting fuel to run pay for the infrastructure? I am personally willing to pay something but I feel that my council tax/road tax and fuel duty is already enough.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S!monOn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality-man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]This_DAMN_Town[/bold] wrote: A terrible tragedy for all involved. Why anyone would ride down that stretch of road is beyond me. However the most telling thing for me is the following: "37-year-old man from West End who was driving a white Ford Transit minibus and a Fordingbridge man aged 56 who was driving a silver Mercedes coupe" The cyclist was clipped by the car and was run over by the van. Why am I not surprised that there is a Mercedes involved. Sickens me how some of the drivers in this town treat cyclists. The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes. Van drivers seem to be a law unto themselves. A terrible tragedy for all the parties involved. Let us hope that others now think about how they drive.[/p][/quote]And the award for the dumbest comment on this thread goes to......... Judging people by what car they drive? Priceless!![/p][/quote]Yes you can judge people by what car they drive. I can also guess that people on bikes annoy you. Also that you probably haven't ridden anywhere in rush hour traffic for a long time. FFSake quite right it is horrible for the family. I cannot imagine how his family feel but my thoughts are with them, and the other people involved.[/p][/quote]If you truly believe you can judge people by the car they drive then you are as stupid as your comment. "The worst are drivers of Audis BMWs and Mercedes" - Where's your proof?[/p][/quote]I guess you drive oe of the cars mentioned! Doesnt feel nice when people make generalised sweeping statements about your minority does it![/p][/quote]The jealousy in your tone is unbelievable.[/p][/quote]Really don't understand your comment. I suppose you have made an assumption that I only cycle. I drive a family car, and a motorbike, but then that's because I have a family and i enjoy riding a motorbike. I wouldn't drive a merc unless I was a divorced woman or a taxi driver What you mistook for jealousy is probably amusement at how people that invest their emotion in cars, tend to be offended when others judge them negatively for the expensive decisions that they make. Everyone has a right to be on the road regardless. But then that doesn't sit well with some[/p][/quote]As I have already stated I drive one of the cars in my supposedly dumbest comment. It was a generalisation. If you are a decent motorist then I am sorry, however in my experience (and other people I know who ride regularly 100+ miles per week) those manufacturers I mention are the bane of our lives. Taxis, vans, lorries, buses, and the Chelsea tractor brigade doing the school run with mum don't need a mention we all know what they are like. As for how this is paid for I think it is already budgeted for but the way the money is spent is not appropriate. They do the minimum possible and then claim some great shakes at helping people ride in the city. If an electric car pays no road tax then why should cyclist. Who do no damage to the roads, or use any carbon emitting fuel to run pay for the infrastructure? I am personally willing to pay something but I feel that my council tax/road tax and fuel duty is already enough. This_DAMN_Town
  • Score: 0

9:56am Wed 26 Dec 12

Pobinr says...

Poor man.
Is there not a cycle lane as an alternative to riding on this dangerous road ?
On another road every day I see cyclists in Basset Avenue ignoring the sign to cycle on the pavement which is the cycle lane.
I toot my horn then always get obscene gestures back from them. They cause cars to have to move out towards oncoming traffic.
One day in Bassett Avenue a cyclist is going to cause a head on pile up. People in the cars may die, but no doubt the cyclist will just ride off.
When I'm cycling I take every opportunity to keep off the road whenever there is an alternative such as pavement or cycle lane, as there usually is on these dangerous roads.

I don't understand why cyclists of all people who are the most vulnerable road users seem to have a death wish. They don't use the cycle lanes or pavements where indicated.
Then there's the fact that so many cyclists jump red lights. They don't have lights at night or when they do sometimes now they are blindingly bright!
Plus they think for some reason they don't need to give hand signals !
So you wait to emerge from a side road, but wait for the cyclist to pass. Except he then turns down the road your about to turn out of, but the cyclist doesn't indicate. So you waited for nothing.
Idiots. Oh well at least I've got 1.8 tons of Volvo round me when I'm in my car.
Poor man. Is there not a cycle lane as an alternative to riding on this dangerous road ? On another road every day I see cyclists in Basset Avenue ignoring the sign to cycle on the pavement which is the cycle lane. I toot my horn then always get obscene gestures back from them. They cause cars to have to move out towards oncoming traffic. One day in Bassett Avenue a cyclist is going to cause a head on pile up. People in the cars may die, but no doubt the cyclist will just ride off. When I'm cycling I take every opportunity to keep off the road whenever there is an alternative such as pavement or cycle lane, as there usually is on these dangerous roads. I don't understand why cyclists of all people who are the most vulnerable road users seem to have a death wish. They don't use the cycle lanes or pavements where indicated. Then there's the fact that so many cyclists jump red lights. They don't have lights at night or when they do sometimes now they are blindingly bright! Plus they think for some reason they don't need to give hand signals ! So you wait to emerge from a side road, but wait for the cyclist to pass. Except he then turns down the road your about to turn out of, but the cyclist doesn't indicate. So you waited for nothing. Idiots. Oh well at least I've got 1.8 tons of Volvo round me when I'm in my car. Pobinr
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Wed 26 Dec 12

loosehead says...

Pobinr wrote:
Poor man.
Is there not a cycle lane as an alternative to riding on this dangerous road ?
On another road every day I see cyclists in Basset Avenue ignoring the sign to cycle on the pavement which is the cycle lane.
I toot my horn then always get obscene gestures back from them. They cause cars to have to move out towards oncoming traffic.
One day in Bassett Avenue a cyclist is going to cause a head on pile up. People in the cars may die, but no doubt the cyclist will just ride off.
When I'm cycling I take every opportunity to keep off the road whenever there is an alternative such as pavement or cycle lane, as there usually is on these dangerous roads.

I don't understand why cyclists of all people who are the most vulnerable road users seem to have a death wish. They don't use the cycle lanes or pavements where indicated.
Then there's the fact that so many cyclists jump red lights. They don't have lights at night or when they do sometimes now they are blindingly bright!
Plus they think for some reason they don't need to give hand signals !
So you wait to emerge from a side road, but wait for the cyclist to pass. Except he then turns down the road your about to turn out of, but the cyclist doesn't indicate. So you waited for nothing.
Idiots. Oh well at least I've got 1.8 tons of Volvo round me when I'm in my car.
If they crossed the main road via the footbridge go over the old railway bridge(Millbrook station) there's a path way that goes all the way to town.
alternatively they can ride up towards Freemantle church turn right into Waterloo Rd come out at Shirley rd & into town you do not have to ride along this road at all.
Even if you find Waterloo Rd busy you can cut through to Millbrook Rd East & ride up a quiet road to town.
[quote][p][bold]Pobinr[/bold] wrote: Poor man. Is there not a cycle lane as an alternative to riding on this dangerous road ? On another road every day I see cyclists in Basset Avenue ignoring the sign to cycle on the pavement which is the cycle lane. I toot my horn then always get obscene gestures back from them. They cause cars to have to move out towards oncoming traffic. One day in Bassett Avenue a cyclist is going to cause a head on pile up. People in the cars may die, but no doubt the cyclist will just ride off. When I'm cycling I take every opportunity to keep off the road whenever there is an alternative such as pavement or cycle lane, as there usually is on these dangerous roads. I don't understand why cyclists of all people who are the most vulnerable road users seem to have a death wish. They don't use the cycle lanes or pavements where indicated. Then there's the fact that so many cyclists jump red lights. They don't have lights at night or when they do sometimes now they are blindingly bright! Plus they think for some reason they don't need to give hand signals ! So you wait to emerge from a side road, but wait for the cyclist to pass. Except he then turns down the road your about to turn out of, but the cyclist doesn't indicate. So you waited for nothing. Idiots. Oh well at least I've got 1.8 tons of Volvo round me when I'm in my car.[/p][/quote]If they crossed the main road via the footbridge go over the old railway bridge(Millbrook station) there's a path way that goes all the way to town. alternatively they can ride up towards Freemantle church turn right into Waterloo Rd come out at Shirley rd & into town you do not have to ride along this road at all. Even if you find Waterloo Rd busy you can cut through to Millbrook Rd East & ride up a quiet road to town. loosehead
  • Score: 0

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