Giant wind farm plan challenged

Daily Echo: Giant wind farm plan challenged Giant wind farm plan challenged

THE opposition group against the giant wind farm planned off the Isle of Wight has challenged the validity of a 3D model being used to show people what it might look like.

Challenge Navitus says the model, which is being shown at Navitus Bay Development Limited’s public exhibitions around the area, is misleading.

Dr Andrew Langley, a scientist in mathematical modelling who co-founded Challenge Navitus, said: “We have conducted a technical review of NBDL’s computer graphics and identified problems which we believe will mislead the public on the visual impact of NBDL’s proposal.

“One key point is that the resolution of NBDL’s 3D display is less than one sixth of what the human eye can resolve, so the turbines are much less visible than they should be. It’s a bit like seeing something out of focus.

“I spoke to Mike Unsworth, the project director, last Saturday and voiced some of my concerns.

“Since then, I have written to him detailing the problems and requested that NBDL take immediate action.

“We are obviously concerned at the large number of people who have already seen NBDL’s 3D model at the exhibitions and on their website.”

Challenge Navitus has put a new video on its own website and Dr Langley encouraged people to compare Challenge Navitus’ images and videos with NBDL’s.

Wind farm simulations are never perfect, and it is important to relate what you see to the real-life view, but we try hard to be accurate and use the latest scientific research when computing our pictures,” he said.

Mike Unsworth, NBDL project director, said he recognised there were limitations to the 3D model.

He added: “This is why we encourage all members of the public who view the 3D model to also look at our detailed viewpoint photomontages when attending the consultation, which have been designed using industry guidance.”

But he said the model used accurate terrain mapping, aerial images and engineering drawings and was shown on a 60in HD TV.

Mr Unsworth said positive comments from those both for and against the park were forthcoming.

“In light of this positive feedback and the considerable efforts made to ensure the 3D model is as realistic as technically possible, we will continue to use it at our public consultation events along the coast.

“We have decided to temporarily remove the 3D fly-through videos on our website to give further consideration as to how they can best-presented to maximise their benefit.”

Comments (9)

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12:58pm Sun 10 Feb 13

J.P.M says...

Aaargh!
This is painful, listening to this pitiful attempt to protest - just for the sake of it.

There are too many urban rebels with time on their hands - anxious to leave their mark of apathy in history.

Lets jus get on, and build what is required, ignoring these negative grannies of rebellion.
Aaargh! This is painful, listening to this pitiful attempt to protest - just for the sake of it. There are too many urban rebels with time on their hands - anxious to leave their mark of apathy in history. Lets jus get on, and build what is required, ignoring these negative grannies of rebellion. J.P.M

1:03pm Sun 10 Feb 13

Pikey Pete says...

Wind farms do not work. Period.!!
You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed.

They kill millions of birds and look awful.

I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them.

Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!

It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power.

Coal is more efficient.
Wind farms do not work. Period.!! You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed. They kill millions of birds and look awful. I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them. Solar PV panels outperform them any day!! It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power. Coal is more efficient. Pikey Pete

1:06pm Sun 10 Feb 13

J.P.M says...

**** Pete wrote:
Wind farms do not work. Period.!!
You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed.

They kill millions of birds and look awful.

I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them.

Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!

It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power.

Coal is more efficient.
Thanks doctor - don't call us..................
....
[quote][p][bold]**** Pete[/bold] wrote: Wind farms do not work. Period.!! You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed. They kill millions of birds and look awful. I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them. Solar PV panels outperform them any day!! It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power. Coal is more efficient.[/p][/quote]Thanks doctor - don't call us.................. .... J.P.M

1:37pm Sun 10 Feb 13

elvisimo says...

**** Pete wrote:
Wind farms do not work. Period.!!
You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed.

They kill millions of birds and look awful.

I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them.

Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!

It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power.

Coal is more efficient.
You should have told them this earlier. My god they could have saved millions wasted on something that doesn't work. All those turbines around the world did not have to be built if only they had spoken to Pete. 'period' - cringe.
[quote][p][bold]**** Pete[/bold] wrote: Wind farms do not work. Period.!! You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed. They kill millions of birds and look awful. I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them. Solar PV panels outperform them any day!! It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power. Coal is more efficient.[/p][/quote]You should have told them this earlier. My god they could have saved millions wasted on something that doesn't work. All those turbines around the world did not have to be built if only they had spoken to Pete. 'period' - cringe. elvisimo

7:22pm Sun 10 Feb 13

befriendly says...

at approx £300,000 to build and install how long till they make a profit. They consume a lot of electricity when not turning to be able to monitor them. Your electricity bill is loaded by a percentage to help pay for them. YOU, the bill payer, are paying to build and maintain them with a hidden surcharge on your existing bill and if and when they do produce electricity the company will charge you for it so the company directors can take their huge salaries. It is estimated they will only be able to produce electricity for around four months of the year because they don't work when there's no wind and have to be shut down if it gets above a certain speed because they'll catch fire if they aren't. Coal or gas fired stations will still have to produce huge amounts when they are working in case the wind suddenly drops and the lights go out. The companies even now receive huge amounts of tax payers cash even when those already installed are not working because of guaranteed subsidies.The whole thing is just a Government PR exercise to try and show they are trying to do something about climate change and the companies want to keep building because of those lovely subsidies.
at approx £300,000 to build and install how long till they make a profit. They consume a lot of electricity when not turning to be able to monitor them. Your electricity bill is loaded by a percentage to help pay for them. YOU, the bill payer, are paying to build and maintain them with a hidden surcharge on your existing bill and if and when they do produce electricity the company will charge you for it so the company directors can take their huge salaries. It is estimated they will only be able to produce electricity for around four months of the year because they don't work when there's no wind and have to be shut down if it gets above a certain speed because they'll catch fire if they aren't. Coal or gas fired stations will still have to produce huge amounts when they are working in case the wind suddenly drops and the lights go out. The companies even now receive huge amounts of tax payers cash even when those already installed are not working because of guaranteed subsidies.The whole thing is just a Government PR exercise to try and show they are trying to do something about climate change and the companies want to keep building because of those lovely subsidies. befriendly

8:16pm Sun 10 Feb 13

derek james says...

as with most warmist and green scares as soon as they are scientifically challenged the bottom drops out of the argument, that's why you won't hear anyone challenging the green garbage on the bbc, it's not allowed, well done dr langley for exposing another green con-trick.the recent not very honourable mp for eastleigh was one of the biggest advocates of wind farms, says it all really
as with most warmist and green scares as soon as they are scientifically challenged the bottom drops out of the argument, that's why you won't hear anyone challenging the green garbage on the bbc, it's not allowed, well done dr langley for exposing another green con-trick.the recent not very honourable mp for eastleigh was one of the biggest advocates of wind farms, says it all really derek james

8:20pm Sun 10 Feb 13

derek james says...

elvisimo wrote:
**** Pete wrote:
Wind farms do not work. Period.!!
You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed.

They kill millions of birds and look awful.

I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them.

Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!

It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power.

Coal is more efficient.
You should have told them this earlier. My god they could have saved millions wasted on something that doesn't work. All those turbines around the world did not have to be built if only they had spoken to Pete. 'period' - cringe.
using your logic there must have been the famous weapons of mass destruction in iraq, don't think they've found them yet
[quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]**** Pete[/bold] wrote: Wind farms do not work. Period.!! You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed. They kill millions of birds and look awful. I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them. Solar PV panels outperform them any day!! It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power. Coal is more efficient.[/p][/quote]You should have told them this earlier. My god they could have saved millions wasted on something that doesn't work. All those turbines around the world did not have to be built if only they had spoken to Pete. 'period' - cringe.[/p][/quote]using your logic there must have been the famous weapons of mass destruction in iraq, don't think they've found them yet derek james

7:44am Mon 11 Feb 13

The Wickham Man says...

**** Pete wrote:
Wind farms do not work. Period.!!
You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed.

They kill millions of birds and look awful.

I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them.

Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!

It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power.

Coal is more efficient.
Pete, errrr where do you get your electricity from when it gets dark? And errrr if you've got to have a full capacity backup there for the peak demand why not just keep it on all the time? And errr what voltage does a solar panel work at? And errrr, how much of your power do you lose trying to make it go long distances to the grid down a copper power cable because 12V DC won't get past the end of your drive? And errrr how much does it cost to connect all these tiny power sources up to the grid?
[quote][p][bold]**** Pete[/bold] wrote: Wind farms do not work. Period.!! You need wind. Obviously and at the right speed. They kill millions of birds and look awful. I think back handers are behind all wind farms. There is no logic in having them. Solar PV panels outperform them any day!! It takes more energy to produce and install 1 wind turbine than it produces in 10 years. It requires loads of maintenance. And factor in that cost it never produces one ounce of usable FREE power. Coal is more efficient.[/p][/quote]Pete, errrr where do you get your electricity from when it gets dark? And errrr if you've got to have a full capacity backup there for the peak demand why not just keep it on all the time? And errr what voltage does a solar panel work at? And errrr, how much of your power do you lose trying to make it go long distances to the grid down a copper power cable because 12V DC won't get past the end of your drive? And errrr how much does it cost to connect all these tiny power sources up to the grid? The Wickham Man

11:48pm Fri 22 Feb 13

save energy says...

I note some misinformation in some previous posts

“Coal is more efficient.”
“Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!”

NO & NO

A few facts


Efficiency: (% of available power converted into useful work).
Coal=36%. Gas=50%. Nuclear=34%. Solar PV = 15%. Wind = 38%

Capacity factor: (actual annual output as a % of max possible output).
Coal=84%.
Gas CCGT=60%. (Should be 85% ish BUT load following reduces it)
Nuclear=90%.
Solar PV = 8%.
British Wind= 27%. (land =26%; offshore=29%)

source = Digest of United Kingdom Energy Statistics DUKES = 268 pg
http://www.decc.gov.
uk/assets/decc/11/st
ats/publications/duk
es/2312-dukes-2011--
full-document-exclud
ing-cover-pages.pdf


For some live info look here

The grid- http://www.gridwatch
.templar.co.uk/

European Wind outputs - http://www.rwe.com/w
eb/cms/en/206488/rwe
-innogy/sites/produc
tion-data-live/rwe-r
enewable-energy-live
/

OFGEM payments - http://www.variablep
itch.co.uk/about/

The real gripe with wind is not that they are "inefficient", but they are reliably spasmodic in output, so are ‘ineffective’.
What do you expect to happen when the wind drops? Are you happy to have your electric cut off? Most people are not, so the grid has to have some power source able to take over at the drop of a hat. So you have to have 'spinning reserve'. A parallel power system that has to be paid for, it cant be turned off, only throttled back, so it produces more CO2/kw than running flat out…madness.

We are often told that wind is “clean, sustainable energy”.

Clean ???
look here - Green energy’s dirty secret - http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=E_ch_Q6ZQ
vM&feature=related

Sustainable ???
– (Oxford Dictionary definition)-
-Capable of being sustained
-To endure without failing or giving way.
-To keep going without intermission.
-Capable of being maintained at a steady level

Wind works intermittently & unpredictably, it averages just 27% of capacity.

As I write this, on a cold frosty day, the UKs entire 4,413 wind turbine fleet is producing-
just … 5% of demand !!! pathetic.

So Wind power – not green or clean & the subsidy payments are obscene.
I note some misinformation in some previous posts “Coal is more efficient.” “Solar PV panels outperform them any day!!” NO & NO A few facts Efficiency: (% of available power converted into useful work). Coal=36%. Gas=50%. Nuclear=34%. Solar PV = 15%. Wind = 38% Capacity factor: (actual annual output as a % of max possible output). Coal=84%. Gas CCGT=60%. (Should be 85% ish BUT load following reduces it) Nuclear=90%. Solar PV = 8%. British Wind= 27%. (land =26%; offshore=29%) source = Digest of United Kingdom Energy Statistics DUKES = 268 pg http://www.decc.gov. uk/assets/decc/11/st ats/publications/duk es/2312-dukes-2011-- full-document-exclud ing-cover-pages.pdf For some live info look here The grid- http://www.gridwatch .templar.co.uk/ European Wind outputs - http://www.rwe.com/w eb/cms/en/206488/rwe -innogy/sites/produc tion-data-live/rwe-r enewable-energy-live / OFGEM payments - http://www.variablep itch.co.uk/about/ The real gripe with wind is not that they are "inefficient", but they are reliably spasmodic in output, so are ‘ineffective’. What do you expect to happen when the wind drops? Are you happy to have your electric cut off? Most people are not, so the grid has to have some power source able to take over at the drop of a hat. So you have to have 'spinning reserve'. A parallel power system that has to be paid for, it cant be turned off, only throttled back, so it produces more CO2/kw than running flat out…madness. We are often told that wind is “clean, sustainable energy”. Clean ??? look here - Green energy’s dirty secret - http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=E_ch_Q6ZQ vM&feature=related Sustainable ??? – (Oxford Dictionary definition)- -Capable of being sustained -To endure without failing or giving way. -To keep going without intermission. -Capable of being maintained at a steady level Wind works intermittently & unpredictably, it averages just 27% of capacity. As I write this, on a cold frosty day, the UKs entire 4,413 wind turbine fleet is producing- just … 5% of demand !!! pathetic. So Wind power – not green or clean & the subsidy payments are obscene. save energy

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