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3:19pm Wed 13 Feb 13

nedscrumpo says...

So councillors treat the mtg with disdain by taking time to tweet instead of listen!
So councillors treat the mtg with disdain by taking time to tweet instead of listen! nedscrumpo
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

By stopping Councillors Don Thomas and Keith Morrell from moving their budget opposing cuts and saving badly needed services, rubber stamp in the hands of pen pushers so called Mayor Cllr. Derek Burke of Conservatised NuLabour has brought democracy into disrepute.

People of Southampton elect councillors to run the Council and speak on their behalf.

But by behaving like puppet of under worked and overpaid fat cats called officers and stopping two councillors from proposing their well researched budget, which would have saved services from unnecessary cuts, the jumped up unfit for the purpose Mayor has tried to kill democracy.

Many will rightly be asking what is the use of electing decent councillors, if they are not even allowed to put forward their ideas for discussion in Council Chamber on the say so of Council's employees?

I Wonder what nations Britain often lectures to on democracy will think about what this NuLabourite Mayor has done in Southampton.

To their shame all the NuLabour councillors fully supported dictatorial decision of jumped up Mayor, who we are told will be provided with brand new expensive electric car?

Why can't Mayor be told to ride bike?
By stopping Councillors Don Thomas and Keith Morrell from moving their budget opposing cuts and saving badly needed services, rubber stamp in the hands of pen pushers so called Mayor Cllr. Derek Burke of Conservatised NuLabour has brought democracy into disrepute. People of Southampton elect councillors to run the Council and speak on their behalf. But by behaving like puppet of under worked and overpaid fat cats called officers and stopping two councillors from proposing their well researched budget, which would have saved services from unnecessary cuts, the jumped up unfit for the purpose Mayor has tried to kill democracy. Many will rightly be asking what is the use of electing decent councillors, if they are not even allowed to put forward their ideas for discussion in Council Chamber on the say so of Council's employees? I Wonder what nations Britain often lectures to on democracy will think about what this NuLabourite Mayor has done in Southampton. To their shame all the NuLabour councillors fully supported dictatorial decision of jumped up Mayor, who we are told will be provided with brand new expensive electric car? Why can't Mayor be told to ride bike? Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

3:41pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

This just go's to show that there is not alot diffences between Labour and the Torys.
Refusal to allow a debate and vote on an alternative budget says it all, its telling the public that they no longer represent the people but representing them selfs and there wealthy friends.
This just go's to show that there is not alot diffences between Labour and the Torys. Refusal to allow a debate and vote on an alternative budget says it all, its telling the public that they no longer represent the people but representing them selfs and there wealthy friends. southy
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

Jenny Makin, we are all aware Echo doesn't pay it's workers well but you do not have to print abuse while sitting in CouncilnChamber!

Read what you wrote at 2.52

Meant for Mayor or Dear Leader???
Jenny Makin, we are all aware Echo doesn't pay it's workers well but you do not have to print abuse while sitting in CouncilnChamber! Read what you wrote at 2.52 Meant for Mayor or Dear Leader??? Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Wed 13 Feb 13

aldermoorboy says...

Vote Tory in 2014 to get a decent council.There ideas seem good to me.Children before some Art say £20m.Children before Unions there is £500,000 each year.
It is not to late Labour listen to the Tories and you can save millions.
Put the children first.
Vote Tory in 2014 to get a decent council.There ideas seem good to me.Children before some Art say £20m.Children before Unions there is £500,000 each year. It is not to late Labour listen to the Tories and you can save millions. Put the children first. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

Jenny well done by inserting 'i' before 'f' in earlier f you.
Jenny well done by inserting 'i' before 'f' in earlier f you. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

4:06pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

Ref 4.01 pm Cllr. has gone to sleep. Probably bored listening to Lib Dem garbage
Ref 4.01 pm Cllr. has gone to sleep. Probably bored listening to Lib Dem garbage Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

4:08pm Wed 13 Feb 13

aldermoorboy says...

Cannot see any unfair comments by Jenny?
If Kaur had been on a training course she would learn not to yawn at a public meeting, it shows disrespect to the voters.
Cannot see any unfair comments by Jenny? If Kaur had been on a training course she would learn not to yawn at a public meeting, it shows disrespect to the voters. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Wed 13 Feb 13

aldermoorboy says...

Kaur is not listening, stop funding the Unions, merge management with IOW, sell some Art, etc etc.
Sadly we voted for Labour lies and this is what we get.
Kaur is not listening, stop funding the Unions, merge management with IOW, sell some Art, etc etc. Sadly we voted for Labour lies and this is what we get. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:17pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Lone Ranger. says...

Seems to be going quite well so far then.
.
Hypocrits, Smith, Mouton and Hanidies having the penny worth and probably over the moon that the Tories were not good enough to be re-elected last May.
.
It just frightens you to death to think of what carnage the three wise monkeys would have dreamt up between them if they were good enough to be in power ........
.
Thank God for their Tory incompetence that they are not still there
.
Seems to be going quite well so far then. . Hypocrits, Smith, Mouton and Hanidies having the penny worth and probably over the moon that the Tories were not good enough to be re-elected last May. . It just frightens you to death to think of what carnage the three wise monkeys would have dreamt up between them if they were good enough to be in power ........ . Thank God for their Tory incompetence that they are not still there . Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

4:33pm Wed 13 Feb 13

owen_thesaints says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
Vote Tory in 2014 to get a decent council.There ideas seem good to me.Children before some Art say £20m.Children before Unions there is £500,000 each year.
It is not to late Labour listen to the Tories and you can save millions.
Put the children first.
Can we stop this 'sell the art' nonsense? You may get an instant hit of cash but when that's gone you've no cash and no art.

It doesn't solve the problem of future funding does it?
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: Vote Tory in 2014 to get a decent council.There ideas seem good to me.Children before some Art say £20m.Children before Unions there is £500,000 each year. It is not to late Labour listen to the Tories and you can save millions. Put the children first.[/p][/quote]Can we stop this 'sell the art' nonsense? You may get an instant hit of cash but when that's gone you've no cash and no art. It doesn't solve the problem of future funding does it? owen_thesaints
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Steven Galton says...

Re 4.08 comment can ensure you I am in the public gallery and I truly care. Respecting the majors meeting and not heckling from the public gallery should not be confused with not caring...

Great constraint is needed when listening to Labour pledging to break one election promise after another whilst increasing wreckless spending and hitting residents with tax hikes to pay for their plans
Re 4.08 comment can ensure you I am in the public gallery and I truly care. Respecting the majors meeting and not heckling from the public gallery should not be confused with not caring... Great constraint is needed when listening to Labour pledging to break one election promise after another whilst increasing wreckless spending and hitting residents with tax hikes to pay for their plans Steven Galton
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Wed 13 Feb 13

aldermoorboy says...

Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies.
Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I.
Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies. Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

Cllr. Don Thomas's hard hitting full of truth and facts not only makes me proud of our ward Councillor, who is fighting against all odds for the interst of people, and excellent contribution of Keith Morrell makes me wonder how come NuLabour be so stupid to have expelled their best assets from the Party?
Cllr. Don Thomas's hard hitting full of truth and facts not only makes me proud of our ward Councillor, who is fighting against all odds for the interst of people, and excellent contribution of Keith Morrell makes me wonder how come NuLabour be so stupid to have expelled their best assets from the Party? Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Wed 13 Feb 13

nedscrumpo says...

That's me unemployed then!
That's me unemployed then! nedscrumpo
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Wed 13 Feb 13

aldermoorboy says...

I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals.
I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies.
Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I.
Please feel free to hold your breath, because you will not even see a Tory controll Council in 2014, they have no hope till 2016 when it might be possible and thats only if things go right for them in the 2014 and 2015 elections if they fail to gain any seats on top of what they all ready have, then you will not see them in 2016
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies. Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I.[/p][/quote]Please feel free to hold your breath, because you will not even see a Tory controll Council in 2014, they have no hope till 2016 when it might be possible and thats only if things go right for them in the 2014 and 2015 elections if they fail to gain any seats on top of what they all ready have, then you will not see them in 2016 southy
  • Score: 0

5:01pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

If ever there was proof that a situation is too serious for politicians and party politics to sort out, this must be a contender.
If ever there was proof that a situation is too serious for politicians and party politics to sort out, this must be a contender. Stephen J
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

nedscrumpo wrote:
That's me unemployed then!
So did you get asked if you'd prefer a wage cut or no job?
[quote][p][bold]nedscrumpo[/bold] wrote: That's me unemployed then![/p][/quote]So did you get asked if you'd prefer a wage cut or no job? loosehead
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals.
Don't be silly as you can see they reward high earners & sack the low earners,
the restoration of pay will not effect many who will lose their jobs but those on £60,000 going down to £30,000 will see a good pay rise & many will not lose their jobs the one's who were out on the front lines in the political strikes will get a thank you but goodbye.
Aldermoorboy these workers were lied to by both the Unions & Labour,
the services were told vote Labour & save services another lie so how can the left on these posts justify there blind support for this Labour Council & the Unions who've betrayed us all?
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals.[/p][/quote]Don't be silly as you can see they reward high earners & sack the low earners, the restoration of pay will not effect many who will lose their jobs but those on £60,000 going down to £30,000 will see a good pay rise & many will not lose their jobs the one's who were out on the front lines in the political strikes will get a thank you but goodbye. Aldermoorboy these workers were lied to by both the Unions & Labour, the services were told vote Labour & save services another lie so how can the left on these posts justify there blind support for this Labour Council & the Unions who've betrayed us all? loosehead
  • Score: 0

7:15pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Lone Ranger. says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies.
Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I.
Still dont quite understand how you continually blame the unions for Labour winning.
.
Not all employees are in the union at SCC.
.
Not all union members at SCC do vote Labour.
.
Are you therefore suggesting that the good people of this City voted Labour at the last elections because they were told to by the Unions ?
.
Well the good people are of this City, unlike yourself, are not gullible to any political party, telling them what to do
as most, unlike yourself do have the use of their own brain.
.
No.. the thing that upsets you is the fact that whilst you and your like champion the call for Democracy you dont like it when it smacks you in the face.
.
The people of this City DEMOCRATICALLY voted out the like of a poor Tory Council with a very poor leader .... or rather dictator.
.
Thats why your beloved lousy party lost.
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: Lone Ranger you know why Labour won, political strikes, huge Union support and Lies. Bring on 2014 the result may be different the public will decide not you and I.[/p][/quote]Still dont quite understand how you continually blame the unions for Labour winning. . Not all employees are in the union at SCC. . Not all union members at SCC do vote Labour. . Are you therefore suggesting that the good people of this City voted Labour at the last elections because they were told to by the Unions ? . Well the good people are of this City, unlike yourself, are not gullible to any political party, telling them what to do as most, unlike yourself do have the use of their own brain. . No.. the thing that upsets you is the fact that whilst you and your like champion the call for Democracy you dont like it when it smacks you in the face. . The people of this City DEMOCRATICALLY voted out the like of a poor Tory Council with a very poor leader .... or rather dictator. . Thats why your beloved lousy party lost. Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

7:24pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Lone Ranger. says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals.
More silliness ........... The art is NOT the councils to sell, despite what the deluded Clrs Moulton and Hanidides claim.
.
Labour councillors did reduce their "money" to the same as Libers and Tories.
.
So whats the other ways to save the money ...... Or do you want to sell off some more of the silverware just soi that we can get rid of the Sea Museum debt wrapped around our necks
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: I am suggesting we sell some of the Art, there are lots of other ways of saving money as well, including Labour councillors reducing their money to that of Tories and Liberals.[/p][/quote]More silliness ........... The art is NOT the councils to sell, despite what the deluded Clrs Moulton and Hanidides claim. . Labour councillors did reduce their "money" to the same as Libers and Tories. . So whats the other ways to save the money ...... Or do you want to sell off some more of the silverware just soi that we can get rid of the Sea Museum debt wrapped around our necks Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

7:46pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

7:49pm Wed 13 Feb 13

bravebeth says...

Reduce the number of councillors and a fortune would be saved. We do not need 3 councillors for each ward. One efficient councillor would suffice. The person should live in the area and prove that they had worked for the area.
Reduce the number of councillors and a fortune would be saved. We do not need 3 councillors for each ward. One efficient councillor would suffice. The person should live in the area and prove that they had worked for the area. bravebeth
  • Score: 0

8:36pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process. Stephen J
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Sorry Stephen, I beg to differ with you. If others did not like what Don and Keith were proposing they had the right to vote their budget down.

With 46 councillors against or even NuLabourites on their could have out voted group of 2 anti cuts councillors.

That would have been democratic process, but what happened is disgrace.

I would have taken the same view even if Tories were treated like that by that Burke.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Sorry Stephen, I beg to differ with you. If others did not like what Don and Keith were proposing they had the right to vote their budget down. With 46 councillors against or even NuLabourites on their could have out voted group of 2 anti cuts councillors. That would have been democratic process, but what happened is disgrace. I would have taken the same view even if Tories were treated like that by that Burke. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

8:58pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it. southy
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock. southy
  • Score: 0

9:10pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order? Stephen J
  • Score: 0

9:14pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council. southy
  • Score: 0

9:22pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
Ahhhh the Magic needs budget........ No wonder it was dismissed, they probably already knew your example of it and couldn't afford the time.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote]Ahhhh the Magic needs budget........ No wonder it was dismissed, they probably already knew your example of it and couldn't afford the time. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time. southy
  • Score: 0

9:26pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me.
when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies.
Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it.
Let's look at it shall we.
1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories.
2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it.
He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts.
I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions?
So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?
I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me. when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies. Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it. Let's look at it shall we. 1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories. 2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it. He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts. I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions? So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:27pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Peter, May I try to clear two points:

If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today.

You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Peter, May I try to clear two points: If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today. You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
Ironlady when the strikes were taking place did we not warn them?
before the local election did we not say this would happen?
you said you would give Williams Labour council time before you judged them ?
Well is this enough time?
What's your verdict on this Labour council now?
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]Ironlady when the strikes were taking place did we not warn them? before the local election did we not say this would happen? you said you would give Williams Labour council time before you judged them ? Well is this enough time? What's your verdict on this Labour council now? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:30pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.
You seem to forget UKIP why's that then?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.[/p][/quote]You seem to forget UKIP why's that then? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:31pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me.
when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies.
Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it.
Let's look at it shall we.
1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories.
2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it.
He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts.
I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions?
So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?
Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me. when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies. Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it. Let's look at it shall we. 1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories. 2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it. He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts. I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions? So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?[/p][/quote]Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect. southy
  • Score: 0

9:33pm Wed 13 Feb 13

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer? freefinker
  • Score: 0

9:34pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.
You seem to forget UKIP why's that then?
UKIP is not for Southampton, they have a very poor membership in this city and where they stand there tend to be a Green Party member standing to
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.[/p][/quote]You seem to forget UKIP why's that then?[/p][/quote]UKIP is not for Southampton, they have a very poor membership in this city and where they stand there tend to be a Green Party member standing to southy
  • Score: 0

9:34pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.
You seem to forget UKIP why's that then?
UKIP is not for Southampton, they have a very poor membership in this city and where they stand there tend to be a Green Party member standing to
Ps theres also the First party to.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]It will be hard to say at the moment, the Greens could pick up a few seats and the same will apply to TUSC now also. But the Torys might pick up a few seat by default like they did in 2010, when there was a backlash against the Labour party, the only thing different between 2010 and 2014 will be that the TUSC are there this time so no Labour votes will be going to the Torys this time.[/p][/quote]You seem to forget UKIP why's that then?[/p][/quote]UKIP is not for Southampton, they have a very poor membership in this city and where they stand there tend to be a Green Party member standing to[/p][/quote]Ps theres also the First party to. southy
  • Score: 0

9:37pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

loosehead wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing.
A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.
Who's next in line do you think?
Ironlady when the strikes were taking place did we not warn them?
before the local election did we not say this would happen?
you said you would give Williams Labour council time before you judged them ?
Well is this enough time?
What's your verdict on this Labour council now?
My thoughts are that they either lied to us with their manifesto or they have no idea about budgeting and simply messed up.

I'm too tired to go into more detail, but I can understand why Labour supporters are disappointed.

My only concern is what will the workers do next, I'm sure none of us want another round of strikes.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And ouch I just been told, where I had to leave the chambers gallery early, I missed out on some thing. A Union member stood up in the gallery and said "That's three unelectable parties in Southampton" I just hope they mean it, because come next year Labour going to get a shock.[/p][/quote]Who's next in line do you think?[/p][/quote]Ironlady when the strikes were taking place did we not warn them? before the local election did we not say this would happen? you said you would give Williams Labour council time before you judged them ? Well is this enough time? What's your verdict on this Labour council now?[/p][/quote]My thoughts are that they either lied to us with their manifesto or they have no idea about budgeting and simply messed up. I'm too tired to go into more detail, but I can understand why Labour supporters are disappointed. My only concern is what will the workers do next, I'm sure none of us want another round of strikes. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:38pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct. southy
  • Score: 0

9:39pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Peter, May I try to clear two points:

If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today.

You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.
Did the Tories say they would cut Surestarts? or did they say all their actions were to safeguard as many jobs as possible & front line services?
Did they not also say Surestarts were safe?
I don't agree with you on many things but before the vote on accepting the deal between the council & the Unions back in October/November the Unions had been in budget talks with the council now did Labour change the budget as soon as the Unions went?
Or if the Unions knew this was coming why did they get their members to accept a deal where those getting made redundant will get less than before that vote?
Williams lied about an article in this paper then lied about no redundancies ( he said there was to this paper).
so how can any one vote Labour next time could you please tell me if you think this Labour Party should retain power & when are the revelations about the lies Williams made about Morell going to be released?
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Peter, May I try to clear two points: If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today. You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.[/p][/quote]Did the Tories say they would cut Surestarts? or did they say all their actions were to safeguard as many jobs as possible & front line services? Did they not also say Surestarts were safe? I don't agree with you on many things but before the vote on accepting the deal between the council & the Unions back in October/November the Unions had been in budget talks with the council now did Labour change the budget as soon as the Unions went? Or if the Unions knew this was coming why did they get their members to accept a deal where those getting made redundant will get less than before that vote? Williams lied about an article in this paper then lied about no redundancies ( he said there was to this paper). so how can any one vote Labour next time could you please tell me if you think this Labour Party should retain power & when are the revelations about the lies Williams made about Morell going to be released? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
Oh by the way I hope you do relise that Keith is an accountant by trade.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote]Oh by the way I hope you do relise that Keith is an accountant by trade. southy
  • Score: 0

9:44pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Peter, May I try to clear two points:

If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today.

You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.
one or two Torys are ok, but then they are in the wrong party to be democratic
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Peter, May I try to clear two points: If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today. You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.[/p][/quote]one or two Torys are ok, but then they are in the wrong party to be democratic southy
  • Score: 0

9:48pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me.
when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies.
Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it.
Let's look at it shall we.
1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories.
2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it.
He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts.
I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions?
So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?
Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.
Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's
Remember Ant Smoking?
there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking.
You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for.
If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them.
I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me. when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies. Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it. Let's look at it shall we. 1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories. 2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it. He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts. I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions? So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?[/p][/quote]Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.[/p][/quote]Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's Remember Ant Smoking? there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking. You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for. If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them. I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now! loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:50pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

southy wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Peter, May I try to clear two points:

If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today.

You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.
one or two Torys are ok, but then they are in the wrong party to be democratic
You can't take a hint, can you?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Peter, May I try to clear two points: If my memory is right last year the points against cuts were mainly made by by certain delegation to Council, but budget can only be proposed by elected councillors, as Cllr. Morrell and Cllr. Thomas were trying to do today. You I and many others may not be keen on Tories, but in all fairness I have to say that there still are plenty of Conservatives who also believe in democracy. So giving the impression that everybody on the right is against democracy is unfair.[/p][/quote]one or two Torys are ok, but then they are in the wrong party to be democratic[/p][/quote]You can't take a hint, can you? Stephen J
  • Score: 0

9:52pm Wed 13 Feb 13

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
.. no southy, they are just your words.

You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: -

‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’.

Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote].. no southy, they are just your words. You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: - ‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’. Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right. freefinker
  • Score: 0

9:57pm Wed 13 Feb 13

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
Oh by the way I hope you do relise that Keith is an accountant by trade.
.. then perhaps you can ask him for the answer to the question I keep asking and you keep failing to answer? You can then pass it on to us all.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote]Oh by the way I hope you do relise that Keith is an accountant by trade.[/p][/quote].. then perhaps you can ask him for the answer to the question I keep asking and you keep failing to answer? You can then pass it on to us all. freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:01pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me.
when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies.
Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it.
Let's look at it shall we.
1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories.
2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it.
He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts.
I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions?
So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?
Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.
Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's
Remember Ant Smoking?
there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking.
You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for.
If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them.
I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now!
Please don't dream Loose UKIP would never stand a chance in Rebridge and Millbrook and they know it, thats why they do not waste there time in those wards, they are a Capitalist aka Right Wing Party and they know they will get better results in Tory strong holds or where there is a high Tory votes, The last Tory to win in Redbridge only done so because the Labour Voters disagree what the Labour Government did and let it be known that they disagree and this happened all over the country, the only hope here is a working class party.
You only go back to last November Loose, I can go back over 2 years ago.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me. when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies. Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it. Let's look at it shall we. 1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories. 2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it. He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts. I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions? So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?[/p][/quote]Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.[/p][/quote]Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's Remember Ant Smoking? there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking. You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for. If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them. I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now![/p][/quote]Please don't dream Loose UKIP would never stand a chance in Rebridge and Millbrook and they know it, thats why they do not waste there time in those wards, they are a Capitalist aka Right Wing Party and they know they will get better results in Tory strong holds or where there is a high Tory votes, The last Tory to win in Redbridge only done so because the Labour Voters disagree what the Labour Government did and let it be known that they disagree and this happened all over the country, the only hope here is a working class party. You only go back to last November Loose, I can go back over 2 years ago. southy
  • Score: 0

10:02pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
.. no southy, they are just your words.

You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: -

‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’.

Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.
No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party.
set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote].. no southy, they are just your words. You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: - ‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’. Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.[/p][/quote]No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party. set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented southy
  • Score: 0

10:10pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me.
when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies.
Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it.
Let's look at it shall we.
1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories.
2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it.
He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts.
I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions?
So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?
Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.
Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's
Remember Ant Smoking?
there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking.
You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for.
If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them.
I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now!
Please don't dream Loose UKIP would never stand a chance in Rebridge and Millbrook and they know it, thats why they do not waste there time in those wards, they are a Capitalist aka Right Wing Party and they know they will get better results in Tory strong holds or where there is a high Tory votes, The last Tory to win in Redbridge only done so because the Labour Voters disagree what the Labour Government did and let it be known that they disagree and this happened all over the country, the only hope here is a working class party.
You only go back to last November Loose, I can go back over 2 years ago.
But TUSC is a capitalist party. It talks in terms of "people before profits" and "punishing the banks". That's reforming capitalism; it's not anti-capitalist. Non-capitalism means no big business, no profits and no banks.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I told you all back in early November what was to come & you of the left ripped into me. when the strikes were on going I asked would they rather have jobs & a slight reduction in pay or no jobs again I was ripped into as Labour said there would be no enforced redundancies. Williams wrote in this paper before the local elections what he was going to do & then denied it. Let's look at it shall we. 1/ !-10 refuse jobs to go & he was doing it if not for the grant that was originally applied for by the Tories. 2/ cuts in services & hiving off services to other authorities but once again he said he didn't say it well he has done it. He also said the Tories would cut Surestarts they said no way well if the TV is to be believed then it's Labour that's cutting Surestarts. I wonder if any Union member could be honest & say the best deal was the Tory deal we've been stitched up good & proper by Labour & the Unions? So go on you left wing liars look into my past posts & I warned you & the Workers this would happen & I warned the Workers to take the Tory offer pity they never listened but believed the Lies by Mike Tucker & his Unite Buddie?[/p][/quote]Lose we on the left did not rip into you, in fact the left was saying Labour will do the same as the Torys to the work force, and we been saying this for the last 2 years, we know which way the Labour Party as turned, warning have been going out some time now, That there is no real differences between any of the Right Wing Partys, and they all will make cuts a lost of jobs lower wages poorer working conditions ect ect.[/p][/quote]Southy I don't wantb to go through the last year of this Echo as if I copied every post where I was being ripped into & being called names & a liar it would fill several Echo's Remember Ant Smoking? there are at least two theres on here that call me a liar or try to make out I don't know what I'm doing or been drinking. You say about Ukip? the problem in this city the places they could win massive support like Redbridge & Millbrook to name just two area's they don't campaign enough or get out there & tell the electorate what they stand for. If they get their act together it won't be the Tory party that's worried it'll be Labour Mark my words many Labour or non voters would vote UKIP if only they knew a bit more about them. I'm a Tory but I listen to people & I know many Labour supporters are looking at UKIP it's up to UKIP now![/p][/quote]Please don't dream Loose UKIP would never stand a chance in Rebridge and Millbrook and they know it, thats why they do not waste there time in those wards, they are a Capitalist aka Right Wing Party and they know they will get better results in Tory strong holds or where there is a high Tory votes, The last Tory to win in Redbridge only done so because the Labour Voters disagree what the Labour Government did and let it be known that they disagree and this happened all over the country, the only hope here is a working class party. You only go back to last November Loose, I can go back over 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]But TUSC is a capitalist party. It talks in terms of "people before profits" and "punishing the banks". That's reforming capitalism; it's not anti-capitalist. Non-capitalism means no big business, no profits and no banks. Stephen J
  • Score: 0

10:11pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:13pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

loosehead wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances
So why would any party go on a suicide mission of being booted out?

Think I need to go to bed!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances[/p][/quote]So why would any party go on a suicide mission of being booted out? Think I need to go to bed! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:14pm Wed 13 Feb 13

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
.. no southy, they are just your words.

You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: -

‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’.

Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.
No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party.
set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented
L:et's do it Southy's way & when we can no longer afford to pay to run this city or council tax goes up so high none of us can afford to pay it the Government will run this city so come on Labour Adopt Southy's budget
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote].. no southy, they are just your words. You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: - ‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’. Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.[/p][/quote]No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party. set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented[/p][/quote]L:et's do it Southy's way & when we can no longer afford to pay to run this city or council tax goes up so high none of us can afford to pay it the Government will run this city so come on Labour Adopt Southy's budget loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:17pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown.
But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown. But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent. southy
  • Score: 0

10:21pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances
So why would any party go on a suicide mission of being booted out?

Think I need to go to bed!
Because you are doing what is right for the people and not self serving, Think about it, you get elected to represent the people so you all ways do what is best for them and not your self.

Oh by the way I know what you mean about London traffic, I hate driving there
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]Yes exactly what happened in Liverpool to a Labour Council They were removed by a Labour Government & they set the tax & ran the finances[/p][/quote]So why would any party go on a suicide mission of being booted out? Think I need to go to bed![/p][/quote]Because you are doing what is right for the people and not self serving, Think about it, you get elected to represent the people so you all ways do what is best for them and not your self. Oh by the way I know what you mean about London traffic, I hate driving there southy
  • Score: 0

10:24pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown.
But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this.......

Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks.

The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out?

This is where I get confused!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown. But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.[/p][/quote]Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this....... Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks. The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out? This is where I get confused! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:25pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown.
But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this.......

Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks.

The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out?

This is where I get confused!
Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out?
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown. But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.[/p][/quote]Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this....... Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks. The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out? This is where I get confused![/p][/quote]Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute.

Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent.

To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works.

Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.

I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment.

As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices.

Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left.

Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'.

Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep.

The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.
Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.
Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.
Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?
The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it.
It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.
.. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'?

And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so.

Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?
Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council.
I told you before time will prove me correct.
.. no southy, they are just your words.

You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: -

‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’.

Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.
No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party.
set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented
L:et's do it Southy's way & when we can no longer afford to pay to run this city or council tax goes up so high none of us can afford to pay it the Government will run this city so come on Labour Adopt Southy's budget
It did not in Liverpool they got an extra millions which would equal in billions today levels.

But one thing for sure Loose keep making cuts and the result will be an Economic melt down, and shares crashing big time.
Do you think you could afford that to happen.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: By refusing to allow Cllr. Don Thomas and Cllr. Keith Morrell move their budget, not only the Mayor, NuLabour's Cllr. Burke has acted like a tyrant but by refusing to challenge, Mayor's undemocratic decision, all other councillors from three main parties have brought the good name of democracy into disrepute. Depriving anybody's right to express his/her views in civilised manner in free society is bad enough, but when elected representatives of the people in local council are told that they can't propose their version of the budget for discussion by full Council, it could set a very dangerous precedent. To agree or disagree with Cllr.Thomas and Morrell's budget is the right of every councillor. If they did not like their proposals opposing cuts in services then they could have voted against Morrell and Thomas's proposed budget, because that is how democracy works. Otherwise it starts resembling like Dictatorship of North Korea or Southampton Council behaving like dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile. I think it was in 1996 when I tried to move an amendment to certain potentially anti students ideas of LibDem and Labour controlled Hamshire County Council. Because I was exposing their hidden agenda on student fees the NuLabourites objected me moving my amendment unless it was seconded, but I was Socialist on my own. So although Tories did not agree with me, their leader formally seconded my amendment. As the late Tory Norman Best told me later, in democracy elected members should not be silenced because of political prejudices. Strangely at one time the late Norman Best used to sit in the same seat where Cllr. Smith was today. Pity he failed to live up to very high democratic standards for which his predecessor was highly respected even by many of us on the left. Whatever our political differences, we as people should not simply ignore what happened in Southampton Council today, otherwise rot will spread and this incident could become first nail in the coffin of our democracy hammered by man called 'Burke'. Just like bullying and silencing of members and depriving certain members here and there started within Labour Party couple of decades ago, and now there is hardly much of democracy left. That is why these days hardly any members participate inNuLabour Party meetings and decisions are made by so called leaders in London and members are forced to follow like sheep. The NuLabourites have managed to virtually destroy their Party, we the people should not allow them to destroy our precious democracy, for which many have made enormous sacrifices in the past.[/p][/quote]Surely this is not a failure of democracy, but a question of due process.[/p][/quote]Its a failure of democracy, the council labour and torys alike declaired war on its people, and what they done today was a dictatorship, Today Confirms what the people have been trying to do for a very long time and that was to put up an alturnative and just like under tory control it was rejected with out a debate or a vote on it.[/p][/quote]Was the motion rejected because it was out of order?[/p][/quote]The motion was not out of order that was for sure, it was presented in the right and correct manor, and by rights it should of had a debate and a vote on it. It was rejected because it was a needs budget that Keith and Don presented to the council.[/p][/quote].. yes, well, there you are. So, the non-existent 'need budget' rears its mysterious head again. Didn't we establish last year this is just your own little phrase for the TUSC slogan of 'No Cuts'? And are we still not waiting for you to explain how you would actually pay the bills when your expenditure has not decreased, but your income most certainly has? It’s a financial conundrum you have failed to address despite many attempts by myself and others to get you to do so. Any chance of giving us a fiscally literate answer?[/p][/quote]Well today proved very wrong don't it, as 2 independant Labour councillors put needs budget forward to the council. I told you before time will prove me correct.[/p][/quote].. no southy, they are just your words. You made up the phrase by selecting two unconnected words; then reversing; from the text of this TUSC policy position,: - ‘ .. to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community .. ’. Now, excuse me, but is this not just the kind of bland meaningless policy waffle you could find in the manifesto of any political party from far left to far right.[/p][/quote]No you can't, its a policy that is best suited for the majority and never for the few, and thats why you don't find it in any Right Wing Party. set a budget that meets the needs of the local community is the needs budget, check with Liverpool when the Labour socialist put a needs budget forward and it got voted down, so came the next elections those Councillors reminded the people and said We need more Councillors to get the needs budget though, and with that the people of Liverpool returned more Labour socialist Councillors, resulting in the needs budget implented[/p][/quote]L:et's do it Southy's way & when we can no longer afford to pay to run this city or council tax goes up so high none of us can afford to pay it the Government will run this city so come on Labour Adopt Southy's budget[/p][/quote]It did not in Liverpool they got an extra millions which would equal in billions today levels. But one thing for sure Loose keep making cuts and the result will be an Economic melt down, and shares crashing big time. Do you think you could afford that to happen. southy
  • Score: 0

10:30pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

Southy, keep humouring me for a minute so I can get my head around this.

So, let's say TUSC run the Council, Make no job cuts and ignore the budget, they keep spending til we go broke.

They get booted out by Central Government, we would then have even MORE cuts to pay for the wastage you created! AND you would no longer control the Council, so what have you achieved?
Southy, keep humouring me for a minute so I can get my head around this. So, let's say TUSC run the Council, Make no job cuts and ignore the budget, they keep spending til we go broke. They get booted out by Central Government, we would then have even MORE cuts to pay for the wastage you created! AND you would no longer control the Council, so what have you achieved? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown.
But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this.......

Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks.

The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out?

This is where I get confused!
Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out?
First they will have to honour the local budget that got pass by the Council, they could not make any cuts till at lest after a year was up, same what happen in Liverpool, there Needs Budget was for 3 years, and it was 3 years before any cuts could be made, and for each off those 3 years Liverpool got extra money from the Government.

What matters the most is that you do what the people want, You do that and they will remember and return you in greater force.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown. But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.[/p][/quote]Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this....... Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks. The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out? This is where I get confused![/p][/quote]Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out?[/p][/quote]First they will have to honour the local budget that got pass by the Council, they could not make any cuts till at lest after a year was up, same what happen in Liverpool, there Needs Budget was for 3 years, and it was 3 years before any cuts could be made, and for each off those 3 years Liverpool got extra money from the Government. What matters the most is that you do what the people want, You do that and they will remember and return you in greater force. southy
  • Score: 0

10:39pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts.

Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts?

How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.
If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown.
But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this.......

Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks.

The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out?

This is where I get confused!
Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out?
First they will have to honour the local budget that got pass by the Council, they could not make any cuts till at lest after a year was up, same what happen in Liverpool, there Needs Budget was for 3 years, and it was 3 years before any cuts could be made, and for each off those 3 years Liverpool got extra money from the Government.

What matters the most is that you do what the people want, You do that and they will remember and return you in greater force.
"We're only doing what the people want." Whether they vote for it or not. After all, the working class might have been hoodwinked by right wing lies and not vote for what's best for them. Isn't that so?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Can someone explain this needs budget, as I understand (and I may have it totally wrong). A budget is set to meet the needs of the people. So let's say Labour set a Needs Budget and spend spend spend ignoring the Government cuts. Am I then to assume the Current Conservative Government would come down and boot out Labour and take Control of our finances as they have ignored the budget cuts? How exactly does this work. Apologies as I'm very tired. Sitting in London traffic for hours on end hardly motivates the brain.[/p][/quote]If it looks like or it happens that the council go's bankrupt, then the Government can remove the councillors, and send a team in to run the council, like what happened in Liverpool, then Southampton will gain, the first thing that will happen is that this team will get more money from the government like what happened in Liverpool on top of what we all ready have, now if other councils follow suit and do the same thing, it will put this government in very deep waters and would have to resign as there policys can not be implented, orders will come from the crown. But Councillors now days have not got the bottle to take on the government and tell them they are wrong, they just accepts it, they are to worried about there political career than they are about the people who they are ment to represent.[/p][/quote]Now, correct me if I'm wrong, let's just go along with this....... Let's say for example TUSC take control of Southampton, they apply this budget and go broke within weeks. The Government then boot out TUSC and take over control. So what have TUSC actually achieved other than being booted out? This is where I get confused![/p][/quote]Southy they will still make cuts even when they've booted you out?[/p][/quote]First they will have to honour the local budget that got pass by the Council, they could not make any cuts till at lest after a year was up, same what happen in Liverpool, there Needs Budget was for 3 years, and it was 3 years before any cuts could be made, and for each off those 3 years Liverpool got extra money from the Government. What matters the most is that you do what the people want, You do that and they will remember and return you in greater force.[/p][/quote]"We're only doing what the people want." Whether they vote for it or not. After all, the working class might have been hoodwinked by right wing lies and not vote for what's best for them. Isn't that so? Stephen J
  • Score: 0

10:40pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs. southy
  • Score: 0

10:42pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
What are our needs?

Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here.

Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc.

You tell me Southy!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]What are our needs? Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here. Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc. You tell me Southy! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:47pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed? Stephen J
  • Score: 0

10:49pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:53pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Stephen J says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you. Stephen J
  • Score: 0

10:56pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
What are our needs?

Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here.

Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc.

You tell me Southy!
One we need more homes, but what homes are really needed are Council built homes and run, so any profits come back to the city and not into private hands, Weekly bin collettion is a must believe it or not, I know this house hold don't need it weekly but there are many that do, and law requirement is a weekly service.
Remember make any job cuts weather if its a lost in wages or jobs and that will effect the economy, those people will not be able to spend in the normal way, and the people who supplys the good to be sold will make cut backs to resulting in more jobs on the line.
To keep any economy working you need the people in jobs working earning a living just so that they can spend money.
when dealing with these things its not the big picture you need to see, its the greater picture you need to see. The long term effect
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]What are our needs? Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here. Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc. You tell me Southy![/p][/quote]One we need more homes, but what homes are really needed are Council built homes and run, so any profits come back to the city and not into private hands, Weekly bin collettion is a must believe it or not, I know this house hold don't need it weekly but there are many that do, and law requirement is a weekly service. Remember make any job cuts weather if its a lost in wages or jobs and that will effect the economy, those people will not be able to spend in the normal way, and the people who supplys the good to be sold will make cut backs to resulting in more jobs on the line. To keep any economy working you need the people in jobs working earning a living just so that they can spend money. when dealing with these things its not the big picture you need to see, its the greater picture you need to see. The long term effect southy
  • Score: 0

10:57pm Wed 13 Feb 13

freefinker says...

Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
.. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote].. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds? freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:58pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.
[quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote]Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs. southy
  • Score: 0

10:59pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
What are our needs?

Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here.

Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc.

You tell me Southy!
One we need more homes, but what homes are really needed are Council built homes and run, so any profits come back to the city and not into private hands, Weekly bin collettion is a must believe it or not, I know this house hold don't need it weekly but there are many that do, and law requirement is a weekly service.
Remember make any job cuts weather if its a lost in wages or jobs and that will effect the economy, those people will not be able to spend in the normal way, and the people who supplys the good to be sold will make cut backs to resulting in more jobs on the line.
To keep any economy working you need the people in jobs working earning a living just so that they can spend money.
when dealing with these things its not the big picture you need to see, its the greater picture you need to see. The long term effect
The Council make little or no profit from homes as they charge less than market rate. Compare on rightmove or similar.

Eastleigh have fortnightly collections so why is it legal?

Of course you need people in jobs!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]What are our needs? Break it down for me, I'm being sincere here. Do we NEED weekly bin collections? Maybe we could lose a few workers there etc etc. You tell me Southy![/p][/quote]One we need more homes, but what homes are really needed are Council built homes and run, so any profits come back to the city and not into private hands, Weekly bin collettion is a must believe it or not, I know this house hold don't need it weekly but there are many that do, and law requirement is a weekly service. Remember make any job cuts weather if its a lost in wages or jobs and that will effect the economy, those people will not be able to spend in the normal way, and the people who supplys the good to be sold will make cut backs to resulting in more jobs on the line. To keep any economy working you need the people in jobs working earning a living just so that they can spend money. when dealing with these things its not the big picture you need to see, its the greater picture you need to see. The long term effect[/p][/quote]The Council make little or no profit from homes as they charge less than market rate. Compare on rightmove or similar. Eastleigh have fortnightly collections so why is it legal? Of course you need people in jobs! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

11:02pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.
Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote]Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.[/p][/quote]Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

11:03pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.
Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?
Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote]Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.[/p][/quote]Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?[/p][/quote]Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

11:04pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
.. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?
You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out.
You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote].. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?[/p][/quote]You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out. You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys. southy
  • Score: 0

11:05pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.
Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?
Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored.
No its every one Iron think about it, what you need you could get but just because you don't use some thing it do not mean others don't
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote]Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.[/p][/quote]Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?[/p][/quote]Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored.[/p][/quote]No its every one Iron think about it, what you need you could get but just because you don't use some thing it do not mean others don't southy
  • Score: 0

11:07pm Wed 13 Feb 13

southy says...

Any way I have to love ya and leave now got a very early start tomorrow.
Any way I have to love ya and leave now got a very early start tomorrow. southy
  • Score: 0

11:58pm Wed 13 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
Any way I have to love ya and leave now got a very early start tomorrow.
Good luck to whoever you are talking to :-)
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Any way I have to love ya and leave now got a very early start tomorrow.[/p][/quote]Good luck to whoever you are talking to :-) IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

12:11am Thu 14 Feb 13

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
.. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?
You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out.
You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys.
.. but, we the people, all want different things. So who gets what they want and who doesn’t?

Yes Liverpool, that was good. Redundancy notices issued to every council employee. Councillors disqualified. Nothing good came of it with the exception that your Militant Tendency was swept from power at the first available opportunity, never ever to elected by 'the people' ever again. Lesson learnt.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote].. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?[/p][/quote]You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out. You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys.[/p][/quote].. but, we the people, all want different things. So who gets what they want and who doesn’t? Yes Liverpool, that was good. Redundancy notices issued to every council employee. Councillors disqualified. Nothing good came of it with the exception that your Militant Tendency was swept from power at the first available opportunity, never ever to elected by 'the people' ever again. Lesson learnt. freefinker
  • Score: 0

12:45am Thu 14 Feb 13

IronLady2010 says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote:
IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back.
The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
.. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?
You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out.
You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys.
.. but, we the people, all want different things. So who gets what they want and who doesn’t?

Yes Liverpool, that was good. Redundancy notices issued to every council employee. Councillors disqualified. Nothing good came of it with the exception that your Militant Tendency was swept from power at the first available opportunity, never ever to elected by 'the people' ever again. Lesson learnt.
Look, I've had a bad couple of days sitting in traffic, hitting a pot hole in Ealing, London and now my car wants to drive to the left!

I really can't be bothered with Southy fights. Southy has no idea what goes on, he even admitted he hasn't been to London for ages, yet he knows what is right for the entire UK.

Sitting in a room puffing on illegally imported tobacco isn't the kind of candidate anyone wants.

On that note, I really do have to go to bed, the paperwork can wait............
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote].. and I want some but not others. southy, who decideds?[/p][/quote]You all decide, you talk to your councillor and tell them what you need, you hold open meetings to find out. You need to look at how Liverpool done it, every step they made was with the public concent, main thing is the councillors fight this and any other government to get back all the moneys that belongs to them, and not having Government controlling there moneys.[/p][/quote].. but, we the people, all want different things. So who gets what they want and who doesn’t? Yes Liverpool, that was good. Redundancy notices issued to every council employee. Councillors disqualified. Nothing good came of it with the exception that your Militant Tendency was swept from power at the first available opportunity, never ever to elected by 'the people' ever again. Lesson learnt.[/p][/quote]Look, I've had a bad couple of days sitting in traffic, hitting a pot hole in Ealing, London and now my car wants to drive to the left! I really can't be bothered with Southy fights. Southy has no idea what goes on, he even admitted he hasn't been to London for ages, yet he knows what is right for the entire UK. Sitting in a room puffing on illegally imported tobacco isn't the kind of candidate anyone wants. On that note, I really do have to go to bed, the paperwork can wait............ IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

7:12am Thu 14 Feb 13

loosehead says...

Southy I have no kids so no need for Surestarts or schools.
I don't need me bins emptied say more than once a month .
I don't use the library so no need for them.
I do need my council tax lowered.
I don't use the bus so away with that subsidy.
I don't need a social worker or a carer so away with them.
In Liverpool the home of my father & relations they went through hell.
the jobs were low paid & the mortgages were lower than the council tax imposed on them by people like you but under another banner.
It was that bad a LABOUR government had to chuck them out & take control of the city.
It's ludicrous to say we don't care about budgets we'll spend on what ever the people need?
In my area alone most people would or could do with only once a month collections but then there are the young families who need weekly so who do you cater for?
what happens when the Government funds run out?
are you going to refuse to send the money to the Government?
as that will end up with the government running the city so exactly what would you achieve ?
Southy I have no kids so no need for Surestarts or schools. I don't need me bins emptied say more than once a month . I don't use the library so no need for them. I do need my council tax lowered. I don't use the bus so away with that subsidy. I don't need a social worker or a carer so away with them. In Liverpool the home of my father & relations they went through hell. the jobs were low paid & the mortgages were lower than the council tax imposed on them by people like you but under another banner. It was that bad a LABOUR government had to chuck them out & take control of the city. It's ludicrous to say we don't care about budgets we'll spend on what ever the people need? In my area alone most people would or could do with only once a month collections but then there are the young families who need weekly so who do you cater for? what happens when the Government funds run out? are you going to refuse to send the money to the Government? as that will end up with the government running the city so exactly what would you achieve ? loosehead
  • Score: 0

7:29am Thu 14 Feb 13

loosehead says...

NO one has mentioned what the true purpose of this deceitful budget is.
Williams wants to stand in Denhams place at the next election.
He knows full well if the truth about the so called illegal action by the Tory council had come out he had ,had it!
he talks the Unions to accept a hush deal.
he then goes out of his way to continue the work done to oust a Tory council.
he's using the budget as a political pawn to get us to vote Labour at the next general election.
no blame on the Labour council ( all over the country) it's the government's fault.
Yet isn't it the National Labour Party that's saying we don't need to be as harsh on the cuts we can take until our childrens children are adults to pay the debt unless another crisis occurs?
so why are Labour slashing as much as they can?
in two years we'll have a general election so if this years budget is bad wait until next years budget.
Williams & Labour have shown nothing but contempt for the voters of this city with Lie after Lie.
He's using the budget to play politics did we vote for this? I didn't as I voted Tory but did the council workers get promised this future by Labour when they were striking?
All other parties have said he didn't need to be so harsh & have put up alternatives but do Labour listen? NO
NO one has mentioned what the true purpose of this deceitful budget is. Williams wants to stand in Denhams place at the next election. He knows full well if the truth about the so called illegal action by the Tory council had come out he had ,had it! he talks the Unions to accept a hush deal. he then goes out of his way to continue the work done to oust a Tory council. he's using the budget as a political pawn to get us to vote Labour at the next general election. no blame on the Labour council ( all over the country) it's the government's fault. Yet isn't it the National Labour Party that's saying we don't need to be as harsh on the cuts we can take until our childrens children are adults to pay the debt unless another crisis occurs? so why are Labour slashing as much as they can? in two years we'll have a general election so if this years budget is bad wait until next years budget. Williams & Labour have shown nothing but contempt for the voters of this city with Lie after Lie. He's using the budget to play politics did we vote for this? I didn't as I voted Tory but did the council workers get promised this future by Labour when they were striking? All other parties have said he didn't need to be so harsh & have put up alternatives but do Labour listen? NO loosehead
  • Score: 0

8:21am Thu 14 Feb 13

sfby says...

southy wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Stephen J wrote:
southy wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.
And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?
I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.
No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.
Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.
Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?
Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored.
No its every one Iron think about it, what you need you could get but just because you don't use some thing it do not mean others don't
Sorry IronLady - I think irony is wasted on Southy.....
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stephen J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010 we have the money but Government is controlling how much we get back. The people will gain out of it, and after they will not dare to make to make the cuts thats being enforce on us, theres no wastage in a needs budget because it what the people want, you only spend on that the people needs.[/p][/quote]And how do you find out "what the people want"? And when confronted with conflicting wants, would it be you who arbitrates on what's really needed?[/p][/quote]I don't use Libraries, so maybe close them all down. I don't use public swimming baths, so close them down. I don't have a need for schools, so close them down.[/p][/quote]No! I need those things. Keep them all! Southy, over to you.[/p][/quote]Ironlady you are just thinking about your self, and not others needs.[/p][/quote]Ahhhh so this needs budget isn't anything to do with me, just your 'chosen' select few?[/p][/quote]Thought this budget was for 'the people' I must be 'a person' and ignored.[/p][/quote]No its every one Iron think about it, what you need you could get but just because you don't use some thing it do not mean others don't[/p][/quote]Sorry IronLady - I think irony is wasted on Southy..... sfby
  • Score: 0

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