University of Winchester vice-chancellor Prof Joy Carter gets £28,000 pay rise

Daily Echo: Prof Joy Carter Prof Joy Carter

THE HEAD of a Hampshire university has been given a £28,000 a year pay rise, the Daily Echo can reveal today.

Now unions are considering action over the hike given to Professor Joy Carter, the vice chancellor of the University of Winchester, while they say staff have endured years of cuts.

It takes her pay to £222,761 - equal to a 12.6 per cent pay rise - six times the rate of inflation.

Professor Don Nutbeam, vice-chancellor of Southampton University, pay and pensions package was £333,615 - up 5.7 per cent.

His salary rose from £277,000 to £294,000.

The details have emerged just days after staff from lecturers to cleaners walked out over a one per cent pay offer, claiming in real terms salaries have fallen by 13 per cent since 2008.

The University and Colleges Union (UCU) and Unite organised a series of one-day strikes in a bitter row over pay.

Winchester union activists are to meet to consider what action to take over the vice-chancellor's pay hike.

Dr Mick Jardine, regional chair for UCU, said university managers pleaded poverty when it came to staff pay rises and vice-chancellors' pay was now “an embarrassment to higher education.”

And he called for vice-chancellors to justify their large pay packets when budgets were squeezed and defend themselves against the allegation they were “university fat cats.”

Dr Jardine said Prof Carter's £28,000 pay rise was more than twice the annual salary of the lowest paid staff such as porters and canteen staff.

“It is outrageous, especially given that this is an Anglican foundation and the university management are quick to claim that it still retains those core values, but they don't fit with a massive and growing gap between the pay packets of the vice-chancellor and ordinary staff.”

Emma Howden, a Unison representative at the University of Winchester, said some low paid staff earned less than the “living wage” of £7.45 per hour.

She said: “People are really struggling to make ends meet especially at this time of year. It is really hard but they feel so strongly they are prepared to go out on strike and sacrifice their pay to protest.”

However pension contributions paid to Professor Carter fell sharply from £19,475 in 2011-12 to zero in 2012-13.

The reduction follows a change in rules which reduced the amount employees can pay into their pension pots while not incurring tax.

The UCU nationally says many university bosses appear to have received higher salaries in exchange for reduced employer contributions.

Professor Van Gore, vice-chancellor of Southampton Solent University, was paid £241,663 in 2011-12, including employer pension contributions and “other benefits” - a fall of 0.6 per cent on the previous year.

The annual accounts for 2012-13 are not yet available online.

Prof Gore's salary increased by £7,619 to £218,268 but employer pension contributions fell from £28,491 to £18,994.

Despite the outrage sparked by her pay rise, Prof Carter refused to comment. A spokesman said: “The university offers no comment at this time.”

However the University of Southampton defended its vice-chancellor's pay saying his salary was in line with other top Russell group universities.

A spokesman said: “The University of Southampton is a leading UK teaching and research institution with over 23,000 students and 5,000 members of staff. It is appropriate that the vice-chancellor of such a large, complex and international institution should be competitively remunerated.”

By comparison, the University of Winchester has 694 staff and 6,328 students. And Southampton Solent University has 1,258 employees and 12,523 students.

Comments (42)

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6:44am Thu 12 Dec 13

aldermoorboy says...

That is fine if the students are willing to pay, no longer a tax payer problem.
If I were a student , I would be unhappy as I think this is a huge over payment.
That is fine if the students are willing to pay, no longer a tax payer problem. If I were a student , I would be unhappy as I think this is a huge over payment. aldermoorboy

6:48am Thu 12 Dec 13

skeptik says...

In the what crisis - I am still eating cake category. The peasants starving and homeless you say?
In the what crisis - I am still eating cake category. The peasants starving and homeless you say? skeptik

6:57am Thu 12 Dec 13

Lockssmart says...

Can't see what all the fuss is about?
Can't see what all the fuss is about? Lockssmart

8:12am Thu 12 Dec 13

wedgeeken says...

how much money is enough the greed of the nation and the world surly it takes every one working together to make something successfully not just a few and would you not think if your pay was over 100 thousand pounds a year you would find your own privet pension there are student out there that will be in debt over there fees
how much money is enough the greed of the nation and the world surly it takes every one working together to make something successfully not just a few and would you not think if your pay was over 100 thousand pounds a year you would find your own privet pension there are student out there that will be in debt over there fees wedgeeken

8:22am Thu 12 Dec 13

Vix1 says...

Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages! Vix1

8:29am Thu 12 Dec 13

solomum says...

So this is what students are plunged into so much debt for, to keep the top bods in a luxurious lifestyle. I hope she can sleep at night.
So this is what students are plunged into so much debt for, to keep the top bods in a luxurious lifestyle. I hope she can sleep at night. solomum

8:32am Thu 12 Dec 13

Big Mac says...

Did the flowers and the onesie come with the pay cheque?
Did the flowers and the onesie come with the pay cheque? Big Mac

8:38am Thu 12 Dec 13

skeptik says...

A tad unfair to make such a big issue out of her dress code - so the lady has a well developed sense of humour.
A tad unfair to make such a big issue out of her dress code - so the lady has a well developed sense of humour. skeptik

9:00am Thu 12 Dec 13

Steady Eddie says...

No wonder she is smiling!!
Perhaps she would like to give her wage increase to charity ?
Whoever agrees on these increases seriously need to open their eyes to the world.
No wonder she is smiling!! Perhaps she would like to give her wage increase to charity ? Whoever agrees on these increases seriously need to open their eyes to the world. Steady Eddie

9:09am Thu 12 Dec 13

For pity sake says...

wedgeeken wrote:
how much money is enough the greed of the nation and the world surly it takes every one working together to make something successfully not just a few and would you not think if your pay was over 100 thousand pounds a year you would find your own privet pension there are student out there that will be in debt over there fees
If you paid a lot for your education, I would recommend applying for a refund...
[quote][p][bold]wedgeeken[/bold] wrote: how much money is enough the greed of the nation and the world surly it takes every one working together to make something successfully not just a few and would you not think if your pay was over 100 thousand pounds a year you would find your own privet pension there are student out there that will be in debt over there fees[/p][/quote]If you paid a lot for your education, I would recommend applying for a refund... For pity sake

9:21am Thu 12 Dec 13

moondaisy says...

The university vice-chancellors are refusing to negitiate with the Unions over pay. They say there is no money - I think you can see why there is no money.
Universities can chose how to spend their money and they are spending it on the top brass - but without the lower paid, they would have no catering, no cleaning and no students!
The university vice-chancellors are refusing to negitiate with the Unions over pay. They say there is no money - I think you can see why there is no money. Universities can chose how to spend their money and they are spending it on the top brass - but without the lower paid, they would have no catering, no cleaning and no students! moondaisy

9:29am Thu 12 Dec 13

sotonwinch09 says...

If staff are unhappy with their wage they can always move on. There are plenty of people out there looking for jobs who would replace them. Yes her increase is double a cleaner and porter wage but cleaner and porters have always been amongst the lowest paid jobs. Look at any company, the salary's for those jobs won't be any different.
If staff are unhappy with their wage they can always move on. There are plenty of people out there looking for jobs who would replace them. Yes her increase is double a cleaner and porter wage but cleaner and porters have always been amongst the lowest paid jobs. Look at any company, the salary's for those jobs won't be any different. sotonwinch09

9:41am Thu 12 Dec 13

sotonwinch09 says...

solomum wrote:
So this is what students are plunged into so much debt for, to keep the top bods in a luxurious lifestyle. I hope she can sleep at night.
I'm sure she has no problems sleeping at night. With that salary she could afford a better bed than any of us on here.
[quote][p][bold]solomum[/bold] wrote: So this is what students are plunged into so much debt for, to keep the top bods in a luxurious lifestyle. I hope she can sleep at night.[/p][/quote]I'm sure she has no problems sleeping at night. With that salary she could afford a better bed than any of us on here. sotonwinch09

9:56am Thu 12 Dec 13

jackois says...

With successive governments having spent time & effort to turn Universities into profit making business, we shouldn't be surprised that the leaders of these give themselves well above average wage rises...

The first thing each university did was raise tuition fees to the maximum allowed. Our own students now think a lot harder about whether to spend a large proportion of their future earnings on a degree and UK student numbers are falling.

This suits the industry as they can make more money from foreign students, but further dilutes skills available from young british people in their own country.

Perhaps one of our political parties might like to propose that pay rises for those at the top of each pile be restricted to the same percentage as they offer the rest of their workforce. Good luck with that one as the government go through the charade of 'not wanting their huge rise' before being forced into it by 'the rules'!
With successive governments having spent time & effort to turn Universities into profit making business, we shouldn't be surprised that the leaders of these give themselves well above average wage rises... The first thing each university did was raise tuition fees to the maximum allowed. Our own students now think a lot harder about whether to spend a large proportion of their future earnings on a degree and UK student numbers are falling. This suits the industry as they can make more money from foreign students, but further dilutes skills available from young british people in their own country. Perhaps one of our political parties might like to propose that pay rises for those at the top of each pile be restricted to the same percentage as they offer the rest of their workforce. Good luck with that one as the government go through the charade of 'not wanting their huge rise' before being forced into it by 'the rules'! jackois

10:24am Thu 12 Dec 13

Linesman says...

hmw wrote:
She looks like a friesian cow in that outfit
I thought she looked quite warm!!
[quote][p][bold]hmw[/bold] wrote: She looks like a friesian cow in that outfit[/p][/quote]I thought she looked quite warm!! Linesman

10:38am Thu 12 Dec 13

p82125 says...

hmw wrote:
She looks like a friesian cow in that outfit
Pull the "udder" one mate !
[quote][p][bold]hmw[/bold] wrote: She looks like a friesian cow in that outfit[/p][/quote]Pull the "udder" one mate ! p82125

10:41am Thu 12 Dec 13

Facewagon says...

jackois wrote:
With successive governments having spent time & effort to turn Universities into profit making business, we shouldn't be surprised that the leaders of these give themselves well above average wage rises...

The first thing each university did was raise tuition fees to the maximum allowed. Our own students now think a lot harder about whether to spend a large proportion of their future earnings on a degree and UK student numbers are falling.

This suits the industry as they can make more money from foreign students, but further dilutes skills available from young british people in their own country.

Perhaps one of our political parties might like to propose that pay rises for those at the top of each pile be restricted to the same percentage as they offer the rest of their workforce. Good luck with that one as the government go through the charade of 'not wanting their huge rise' before being forced into it by 'the rules'!
Let's not forget that universities raising tuition fees came as a direct consequence of removal of government funding.
[quote][p][bold]jackois[/bold] wrote: With successive governments having spent time & effort to turn Universities into profit making business, we shouldn't be surprised that the leaders of these give themselves well above average wage rises... The first thing each university did was raise tuition fees to the maximum allowed. Our own students now think a lot harder about whether to spend a large proportion of their future earnings on a degree and UK student numbers are falling. This suits the industry as they can make more money from foreign students, but further dilutes skills available from young british people in their own country. Perhaps one of our political parties might like to propose that pay rises for those at the top of each pile be restricted to the same percentage as they offer the rest of their workforce. Good luck with that one as the government go through the charade of 'not wanting their huge rise' before being forced into it by 'the rules'![/p][/quote]Let's not forget that universities raising tuition fees came as a direct consequence of removal of government funding. Facewagon

11:28am Thu 12 Dec 13

Avid-reader says...

Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
[quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal! Avid-reader

11:30am Thu 12 Dec 13

AD1234 says...

Compared with the salaries paid to professional footballers, her pay is very well deserved. At least she is bright, hard working, and helping others improve their education. What do 'the Saints' do?
Compared with the salaries paid to professional footballers, her pay is very well deserved. At least she is bright, hard working, and helping others improve their education. What do 'the Saints' do? AD1234

11:41am Thu 12 Dec 13

Bagamn says...

Never mind! I will get £2. 95 a week extra old age pension next year. That's an extra loaf and some more milk.
Never mind! I will get £2. 95 a week extra old age pension next year. That's an extra loaf and some more milk. Bagamn

12:17pm Thu 12 Dec 13

skeptik says...

With me it is not envy - more about results. We are told how well UK Plc is doing and we need to pay the rate to get the right people. Said often enough over the years and the gap between top and bottom is grand canyon sized. Yet we are slipping back against many other nations in education and industrial might. Listening to the business programme on the World Service - the Chinese business folk talked of the UK as a theme park - nice to visit! The answer - pay the people failing more - to do what?
With me it is not envy - more about results. We are told how well UK Plc is doing and we need to pay the rate to get the right people. Said often enough over the years and the gap between top and bottom is grand canyon sized. Yet we are slipping back against many other nations in education and industrial might. Listening to the business programme on the World Service - the Chinese business folk talked of the UK as a theme park - nice to visit! The answer - pay the people failing more - to do what? skeptik

1:47pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Lockssmart says...

So many jealous comments from the drop-out Southamptonites. So she studied hard and has obviously worked hard to get where she is and deserves it all. Ignore the comments from the losers.
So many jealous comments from the drop-out Southamptonites. So she studied hard and has obviously worked hard to get where she is and deserves it all. Ignore the comments from the losers. Lockssmart

2:12pm Thu 12 Dec 13

sass says...

This is what you get when the monkeys count the bananas. There should be a legislated maximum multiple between the lowest and highest paid workers in any company or institution. If the cheif wants more then the indians get more too.
This is what you get when the monkeys count the bananas. There should be a legislated maximum multiple between the lowest and highest paid workers in any company or institution. If the cheif wants more then the indians get more too. sass

2:15pm Thu 12 Dec 13

DinkW212 says...

Avid-reader wrote:
Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises?
In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination.
Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not.
Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience?
I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple.
I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us!
[quote][p][bold]Avid-reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal![/p][/quote]It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises? In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination. Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not. Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience? I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple. I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us! DinkW212

3:15pm Thu 12 Dec 13

hantslass says...

how many are genuine students ? arent a lot of them illigally claiming to be students i just to stay in this country. she should get lower wages NOT higher,most people earn less than that in a year for slogging their guts out. stop pampering the OVERPAID UNDERWORKED HIGH PAYERS in this country.
how many are genuine students ? arent a lot of them illigally claiming to be students i just to stay in this country. she should get lower wages NOT higher,most people earn less than that in a year for slogging their guts out. stop pampering the OVERPAID UNDERWORKED HIGH PAYERS in this country. hantslass

3:25pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

All that is being asked for is the reason for the pay rise. If a university lecturer suddenly had a pay rise and her or his colleagues did not, those colleagues would quite justfiably be annoyed. If however it emerged that the lecturer had been promoted to senior lecturer, it would make sense. Similarly, if the vice-chancellor has effectively been promoted in the light of increased responsibility and demonstrable success, then fine. But that clarity is needed.
All that is being asked for is the reason for the pay rise. If a university lecturer suddenly had a pay rise and her or his colleagues did not, those colleagues would quite justfiably be annoyed. If however it emerged that the lecturer had been promoted to senior lecturer, it would make sense. Similarly, if the vice-chancellor has effectively been promoted in the light of increased responsibility and demonstrable success, then fine. But that clarity is needed. Stephen J

3:55pm Thu 12 Dec 13

bigfella777 says...

Just the usual comments from the illiterate Southampton chav underclass who cannot understand that some employees are actually valued and rewarded for their expertise.
Just the usual comments from the illiterate Southampton chav underclass who cannot understand that some employees are actually valued and rewarded for their expertise. bigfella777

5:11pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Lockssmart says...

bigfella777 wrote:
Just the usual comments from the illiterate Southampton chav underclass who cannot understand that some employees are actually valued and rewarded for their expertise.
My god! I actually agree with you for once.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: Just the usual comments from the illiterate Southampton chav underclass who cannot understand that some employees are actually valued and rewarded for their expertise.[/p][/quote]My god! I actually agree with you for once. Lockssmart

6:19pm Thu 12 Dec 13

WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER. says...

AD1234 wrote:
Compared with the salaries paid to professional footballers, her pay is very well deserved. At least she is bright, hard working, and helping others improve their education. What do 'the Saints' do?
don,t knock one trophy in over 125 years ,stunning success.
[quote][p][bold]AD1234[/bold] wrote: Compared with the salaries paid to professional footballers, her pay is very well deserved. At least she is bright, hard working, and helping others improve their education. What do 'the Saints' do?[/p][/quote]don,t knock one trophy in over 125 years ,stunning success. WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER.

7:30pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Torchie1 says...

DinkW212 wrote:
Avid-reader wrote:
Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises?
In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination.
Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not.
Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience?
I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple.
I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us!
You ask whether this lady could do your job but that question can easily be reversed, but as you clearly are paid a lot less, the question that also arises is would she want to.
[quote][p][bold]DinkW212[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avid-reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal![/p][/quote]It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises? In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination. Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not. Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience? I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple. I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us![/p][/quote]You ask whether this lady could do your job but that question can easily be reversed, but as you clearly are paid a lot less, the question that also arises is would she want to. Torchie1

8:12pm Thu 12 Dec 13

100%HANTSBOY says...

Avid-reader wrote:
Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
Forgive me if it appears I am being too quick to judge.....but I think you're a knob!
[quote][p][bold]Avid-reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal![/p][/quote]Forgive me if it appears I am being too quick to judge.....but I think you're a knob! 100%HANTSBOY

9:54pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Bitterne_Bobby says...

Of the almost 700 staff, about 400 are lecturers on proper contracts. There are also over 1000 hourly-paid lecturers who are on Zero Hours contracts, without whom there would be no way the university could deliver the many degree courses it offers to generate its income for VC pay rises etc. Such a lecturer might be paid 8-10 hours a week for about 20 weeks of the year. There is no holiday pay, no sick pay, no pay of any kind over the other 30+ weeks of the year, no extra pay for marking or tutorials or emails and admin.

My husband is one of these lecturers and he would dearly love a proper contract to teach there. He has 12 years experience gained at several universities, has been for interviews across the country meaning we would have to move if he was successful, has a national profile in his specialism, his students provide consistently excellent feedback. And he can't get a job, even with a PhD in his specialism he's held for 7 years, because lots and lots of the 1000 lecturers here and many thousands across the country are in the same situation.

Yes ability should be rewarded and VCs do a job not many of us could do. But without her team of 1,694 staff she couldn't even do her own job because there would be no courses for students. And I personally feel cleaners, lecturers, admin and VCs are all in the same team - if not boat - and our "boat" would spring a big leak if you got rid of any of them.
Of the almost 700 staff, about 400 are lecturers on proper contracts. There are also over 1000 hourly-paid lecturers who are on Zero Hours contracts, without whom there would be no way the university could deliver the many degree courses it offers to generate its income for VC pay rises etc. Such a lecturer might be paid 8-10 hours a week for about 20 weeks of the year. There is no holiday pay, no sick pay, no pay of any kind over the other 30+ weeks of the year, no extra pay for marking or tutorials or emails and admin. My husband is one of these lecturers and he would dearly love a proper contract to teach there. He has 12 years experience gained at several universities, has been for interviews across the country meaning we would have to move if he was successful, has a national profile in his specialism, his students provide consistently excellent feedback. And he can't get a job, even with a PhD in his specialism he's held for 7 years, because lots and lots of the 1000 lecturers here and many thousands across the country are in the same situation. Yes ability should be rewarded and VCs do a job not many of us could do. But without her team of 1,694 staff she couldn't even do her own job because there would be no courses for students. And I personally feel cleaners, lecturers, admin and VCs are all in the same team - if not boat - and our "boat" would spring a big leak if you got rid of any of them. Bitterne_Bobby

10:20pm Thu 12 Dec 13

sparkster says...

how disgusting, the poor doctors snd nurses dont get a pay rise and are unlikely to get one next year, utter disgrace
how disgusting, the poor doctors snd nurses dont get a pay rise and are unlikely to get one next year, utter disgrace sparkster

10:24pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Stephen J says...

Bitterne_Bobby wrote:
Of the almost 700 staff, about 400 are lecturers on proper contracts. There are also over 1000 hourly-paid lecturers who are on Zero Hours contracts, without whom there would be no way the university could deliver the many degree courses it offers to generate its income for VC pay rises etc. Such a lecturer might be paid 8-10 hours a week for about 20 weeks of the year. There is no holiday pay, no sick pay, no pay of any kind over the other 30+ weeks of the year, no extra pay for marking or tutorials or emails and admin.

My husband is one of these lecturers and he would dearly love a proper contract to teach there. He has 12 years experience gained at several universities, has been for interviews across the country meaning we would have to move if he was successful, has a national profile in his specialism, his students provide consistently excellent feedback. And he can't get a job, even with a PhD in his specialism he's held for 7 years, because lots and lots of the 1000 lecturers here and many thousands across the country are in the same situation.

Yes ability should be rewarded and VCs do a job not many of us could do. But without her team of 1,694 staff she couldn't even do her own job because there would be no courses for students. And I personally feel cleaners, lecturers, admin and VCs are all in the same team - if not boat - and our "boat" would spring a big leak if you got rid of any of them.
Yes, they are all in the same team, which is why the reason for the so-called pay rise must be made clear. As a PhD student at that university last year I had to fill in by providing, at short notice, undergraduate and post-grad lectures that another member of staff could not provide. £90 for providing a full three-hour lecture, including all preparation, delivering it and doing all the follow up is indeed peanuts.
[quote][p][bold]Bitterne_Bobby[/bold] wrote: Of the almost 700 staff, about 400 are lecturers on proper contracts. There are also over 1000 hourly-paid lecturers who are on Zero Hours contracts, without whom there would be no way the university could deliver the many degree courses it offers to generate its income for VC pay rises etc. Such a lecturer might be paid 8-10 hours a week for about 20 weeks of the year. There is no holiday pay, no sick pay, no pay of any kind over the other 30+ weeks of the year, no extra pay for marking or tutorials or emails and admin. My husband is one of these lecturers and he would dearly love a proper contract to teach there. He has 12 years experience gained at several universities, has been for interviews across the country meaning we would have to move if he was successful, has a national profile in his specialism, his students provide consistently excellent feedback. And he can't get a job, even with a PhD in his specialism he's held for 7 years, because lots and lots of the 1000 lecturers here and many thousands across the country are in the same situation. Yes ability should be rewarded and VCs do a job not many of us could do. But without her team of 1,694 staff she couldn't even do her own job because there would be no courses for students. And I personally feel cleaners, lecturers, admin and VCs are all in the same team - if not boat - and our "boat" would spring a big leak if you got rid of any of them.[/p][/quote]Yes, they are all in the same team, which is why the reason for the so-called pay rise must be made clear. As a PhD student at that university last year I had to fill in by providing, at short notice, undergraduate and post-grad lectures that another member of staff could not provide. £90 for providing a full three-hour lecture, including all preparation, delivering it and doing all the follow up is indeed peanuts. Stephen J

9:55am Fri 13 Dec 13

From the sidelines says...

Astounded at the small difference in salary between the VC of a Russell Group university and that of the alleged 'University of Winchester'.
Astounded at the small difference in salary between the VC of a Russell Group university and that of the alleged 'University of Winchester'. From the sidelines

1:57pm Fri 13 Dec 13

RossCarter says...

With the Vice Chancellor's pay rise, the university staff are striking and this is causing a disruption for students. The students pay their tuition fees whether the lecturer is absent (on strike) or not. I think the students are the most important thing and with them paying the rising tuition fees regardless, this problem needs to be sorted out quickly.
With the Vice Chancellor's pay rise, the university staff are striking and this is causing a disruption for students. The students pay their tuition fees whether the lecturer is absent (on strike) or not. I think the students are the most important thing and with them paying the rising tuition fees regardless, this problem needs to be sorted out quickly. RossCarter

3:36pm Fri 13 Dec 13

DinkW212 says...

Torchie1 wrote:
DinkW212 wrote:
Avid-reader wrote:
Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises?
In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination.
Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not.
Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience?
I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple.
I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us!
You ask whether this lady could do your job but that question can easily be reversed, but as you clearly are paid a lot less, the question that also arises is would she want to.
So from this reply I can assume that you would agree its not about the skills, qualifications, or life choices good or bad?

It is indeed about the money, she would not do my job even if she could because of the poor pay scales.

Thanks for agreeing :-)
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DinkW212[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Avid-reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal![/p][/quote]It is clear that you really do not have a handle on the current state of the nations finances or that of this particular institution. How can we all be "in this together" when normal working people are being offered a 1% pay increase and some none at all and yet at the other end of the scale politicians and high ranking senior staff are giving themselves massive pay rises? In your world we are all lesser mortals who only clean and support the high ranking officials, this is not the real world but only exists in your imagination. Could this lady do my job? the answer is no she could not. Do I get paid anywhere near her salary? no I do not, so does that make me also a qualification lacking person who has made bad life choices with little experience? I want what is fair! fair days work fair days pay it's that simple. I really feel you should get out more, there is a real world out there which although is populated by a number of lesser individuals than yourself it is still the real world you too could be a part of it...come and join us![/p][/quote]You ask whether this lady could do your job but that question can easily be reversed, but as you clearly are paid a lot less, the question that also arises is would she want to.[/p][/quote]So from this reply I can assume that you would agree its not about the skills, qualifications, or life choices good or bad? It is indeed about the money, she would not do my job even if she could because of the poor pay scales. Thanks for agreeing :-) DinkW212

6:25pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Tony S says...

It is obscene. A pay rise of 7x what is paid as carers allowance to people who look after relatives 7 days a week 24 hours a day.
It is obscene. A pay rise of 7x what is paid as carers allowance to people who look after relatives 7 days a week 24 hours a day. Tony S

8:35pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Niel says...

sass wrote:
This is what you get when the monkeys count the bananas. There should be a legislated maximum multiple between the lowest and highest paid workers in any company or institution. If the cheif wants more then the indians get more too.
Working in a Uni and at the top of my pay scale for 10 years I've taken what is effectively a 15% pay CUT over the last 5 years, the VC's and (in) Human Resources depts go on about 'effective pay-rise' including scale increments with the 1% to disguise the fact the student facing and supporting staff are being royally screwed. I enjoy my job, but before these minimal annual rises we were 25% behind our industrial comparators, the VC's and their entourage have been quick enough to match and now exceed them. Staff are overloaded and with the numbers cap being removed it'll only get worse, Don was fast enough to congratulate the recruitment team for exceeding the cap, no extra staff to teach though...
[quote][p][bold]sass[/bold] wrote: This is what you get when the monkeys count the bananas. There should be a legislated maximum multiple between the lowest and highest paid workers in any company or institution. If the cheif wants more then the indians get more too.[/p][/quote]Working in a Uni and at the top of my pay scale for 10 years I've taken what is effectively a 15% pay CUT over the last 5 years, the VC's and (in) Human Resources depts go on about 'effective pay-rise' including scale increments with the 1% to disguise the fact the student facing and supporting staff are being royally screwed. I enjoy my job, but before these minimal annual rises we were 25% behind our industrial comparators, the VC's and their entourage have been quick enough to match and now exceed them. Staff are overloaded and with the numbers cap being removed it'll only get worse, Don was fast enough to congratulate the recruitment team for exceeding the cap, no extra staff to teach though... Niel

11:36am Sat 14 Dec 13

Poppy22 says...

Senior public sector positions - especially in education (eg also school head teachers) are way too highly paid now, especially when compared with equivalent positions (eg re qualifications/exper
ience) in the majority of the private sector where the pay for roles like bank managers (normal banks, not investment banks!) has reduced to pitifully low levels over the past 15-20 years. Even the Prime Minister's salary compares unfavourably with the salaries of university senior personnel!! No wonder the UK is in the sorry financial position it is!
Senior public sector positions - especially in education (eg also school head teachers) are way too highly paid now, especially when compared with equivalent positions (eg re qualifications/exper ience) in the majority of the private sector where the pay for roles like bank managers (normal banks, not investment banks!) has reduced to pitifully low levels over the past 15-20 years. Even the Prime Minister's salary compares unfavourably with the salaries of university senior personnel!! No wonder the UK is in the sorry financial position it is! Poppy22

4:12pm Sat 14 Dec 13

hansy441 says...

Avid-reader wrote:
Vix1 wrote:
Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages!
Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels.

So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal!
Excuse me, I earn 12k a year and do you know what I do? I am a Nursery Practitioner, looking after little children. Just because I get paid a poor wage, does it make my job any less responsible? I am looking after your most precious things in the world, teaching them how to read, socialise, walk and talk, but obviously, because I get 12k it must be an easy job, which you need 0 qualifications for. Idiot.
[quote][p][bold]Avid-reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vix1[/bold] wrote: Most people don't earn that much as an annual wage, let alone receive it as a pay rise!!! I don't believe anybody deserves a wage of that kind of amount; when people who risk their lives in their daily work get such poor pay. I'm sure there are soldiers, firefighters etc who are far more worthy of such extortionate wages![/p][/quote]Put things in monetary value then people get the right huff. If people are struggling to earn and live it's because they're obviously not in a position to get a higher paid job. Lack of qualifications, experience, attitude and probably poor life choices [i.e. early family starters] are the things that get in the way. I want, i want, i want - that's all you hear nowadays but are people willing to put the work in at an early stage to help set them up for the future? Everyone needs to work to live and there are various jobs out there for people with different circumstances and skill levels. So what if this woman gets a large annual salary and one of the cleaners gets £12 / 14 grand a year, it's all relative when it comes to responsibilities, stresses and million pound budgets. People are so quick to judge it is unreal![/p][/quote]Excuse me, I earn 12k a year and do you know what I do? I am a Nursery Practitioner, looking after little children. Just because I get paid a poor wage, does it make my job any less responsible? I am looking after your most precious things in the world, teaching them how to read, socialise, walk and talk, but obviously, because I get 12k it must be an easy job, which you need 0 qualifications for. Idiot. hansy441

8:13pm Sat 14 Dec 13

the_elf says...

Debates about relative pay rates always boil down to the same key point, supply and demand. The skills needed to be a cleaner is relatively low, hence the wages match the skills. The skills needed as a teacher, soilder, nurse, fireman etc are higher so they are paid more. As the skills go up so does the wage, surgeons, professors, generals get paid more than those further down the chain. There is only one person at the top so they get paid more again.
I don't know too many people who believe that they are vastly overpaid for what they do, strangely our valuation of others skills/efforts seems less generous.
Debates about relative pay rates always boil down to the same key point, supply and demand. The skills needed to be a cleaner is relatively low, hence the wages match the skills. The skills needed as a teacher, soilder, nurse, fireman etc are higher so they are paid more. As the skills go up so does the wage, surgeons, professors, generals get paid more than those further down the chain. There is only one person at the top so they get paid more again. I don't know too many people who believe that they are vastly overpaid for what they do, strangely our valuation of others skills/efforts seems less generous. the_elf

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