Investigation into claims Wiggle events in New Forest are breaking law

Daily Echo: Wiggle cycling events are controversial across New Forest Wiggle cycling events are controversial across New Forest

POLICE have launched an investigation into mass cycling events in the New Forest, it has been revealed.

They are looking into allegations that the controversial Wiggle rides, which have attracted as many as 2,500 entrants, are breaking the law by causing a public nuisance.

The revelation was made at a meeting of the National Park Authority (NPA), which is devising a cycling charter to tackle the issue.

Members complained that cyclists were racing on the public highway, defecating on village greens and shouting abuse at anyone who got in their way.

Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists.

“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went.

“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle.

“I’m not anti-cycling but these big, money-making events are getting out of control. The problem has not been managed, it’s simply being looked at in retrospect.”

Oliver Crosthwaite Eyre said the speed and behaviour of the cyclists, coupled with the frequency of the events, was causing “enormous upset” in the Forest.

Members spoke out after being addressed by Peter Roberts, chairman of the New Forest Association.

He said: “The activity is clearly a race, either against the clock or fellow competitors – whatever name is given to it by the commercial organisers.

“A complaint has been submitted to the police regarding public nuisance.”

A 1993 court case was cited, in which a landowner convicted of causing a public nuisance was fined £2,500 with £1,500 costs.

The head of New Forest police, Chief Inspector Tony Rowlinson, said the cycling complaint was being investigated by a senior officer.

He added: “The prosecuting authority is the Crown Prosecution Service and we will look to them for a steer.”

NPA member David Harrison hit out at what he described as the “anti-cycling” stance adopted by some of his colleagues.

He said: “We should be actively promoting and supporting responsible cycling, a much enjoyed, largely peaceful activity that’s a positive for the Forest, not a negative.”

Wiggle organiser Martin Barden was unavailable for comment.

Last month he said he had listened to concerns raised by residents and imposed a 20 per cent cut in the number of cyclists allowed to take part in the 2014 events.

He also confirmed that motorbike marshals would patrol the route and instantly disqualify any rider seen to be behaving badly.

He said: “While we know our events are run 100 per cent within the current guidelines we hope the adjustments will ease any local tensions.”

Organisers of the New Forest Show have banned mass cycling events from using their land at New Park, Brockenhurst, following criticism of the Wiggle rides.

Mr Barden has now asked Fawley Parish Council for permission to use Gang Warily Recreation Ground.

Comments (175)

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9:04am Fri 13 Dec 13

Ash_69 says...

Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc... Ash_69

9:08am Fri 13 Dec 13

J.P.M... says...

is it the only sort of thing the Echo can come up with. Rehash a story 20 times.
is it the only sort of thing the Echo can come up with. Rehash a story 20 times. J.P.M...

9:11am Fri 13 Dec 13

Franks Tank says...

And why aren't the police investigating who spread tacks and slurry on the road or who tried to vandalise the event by tearing down direction signs?
And why aren't the police investigating who spread tacks and slurry on the road or who tried to vandalise the event by tearing down direction signs? Franks Tank

9:29am Fri 13 Dec 13

spotburst says...

“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race? spotburst

9:35am Fri 13 Dec 13

AFrustratedCyclist says...

There are plenty of of other commercial events around the New Forest that cause far greater public nuisance and traffic chaos yet there is no call to curb or even control them. New Forest show, many events at Beaulieu .....
Maybe I should complain to the police about the nuisaance they cause me as a local?

This is nothing more than anti cycling nonsense from a few people with the spare time and money and or in the right position to ruin other enjoyment of the New Forest for the sake of a matter of minutes on a journey a couple of times a year. Anti-cycling bigots everyone.

If A! cyclist defacated on the green then that individual! is disgusting, that does not make it right to tar the others with the same brush. You go anywhere in the new forest and find Dogs mess all over the show I suspect on that very green too. Yet nobody is calling for dogs to be banned from the forest either.

All of these stories are full of hypocrisy, exaggeration, speculation and pure fabrication. Just Echo click bait for advertising revenue and whipping up all of this nonsense every few weeks to keep traffic\advertising revenues up.

A number of sportives have come through the village in the forest where I live (lots of regular horse riders) and right in front of my house in fact. I've not had or seen any of the issues that are reported as being rife. I do however wait until it's safe to pass cyclist and give them lots of space when I pass them in my car. I've been at home when they've been on, I've been out in my car when they've been on and I've even god forbid been out on my bike when they've been on, including through Brockenhurst when the last one was on. Yes there was a bit of traffic by far less then when other events are held at new park and no worse than a busy summer's day in Brock' full of tourists spending their money.

Live and let live people, get over it, things change.
There are plenty of of other commercial events around the New Forest that cause far greater public nuisance and traffic chaos yet there is no call to curb or even control them. New Forest show, many events at Beaulieu ..... Maybe I should complain to the police about the nuisaance they cause me as a local? This is nothing more than anti cycling nonsense from a few people with the spare time and money and or in the right position to ruin other enjoyment of the New Forest for the sake of a matter of minutes on a journey a couple of times a year. Anti-cycling bigots everyone. If A! cyclist defacated on the green then that individual! is disgusting, that does not make it right to tar the others with the same brush. You go anywhere in the new forest and find Dogs mess all over the show I suspect on that very green too. Yet nobody is calling for dogs to be banned from the forest either. All of these stories are full of hypocrisy, exaggeration, speculation and pure fabrication. Just Echo click bait for advertising revenue and whipping up all of this nonsense every few weeks to keep traffic\advertising revenues up. A number of sportives have come through the village in the forest where I live (lots of regular horse riders) and right in front of my house in fact. I've not had or seen any of the issues that are reported as being rife. I do however wait until it's safe to pass cyclist and give them lots of space when I pass them in my car. I've been at home when they've been on, I've been out in my car when they've been on and I've even god forbid been out on my bike when they've been on, including through Brockenhurst when the last one was on. Yes there was a bit of traffic by far less then when other events are held at new park and no worse than a busy summer's day in Brock' full of tourists spending their money. Live and let live people, get over it, things change. AFrustratedCyclist

10:04am Fri 13 Dec 13

camerajuan says...

Oh sod off!!! What is wrong with people?!?!

Why aren't the police looking into all the drivers who don't indicate and cut people off?? That happens every day, multiple times. They get away with it, every time.

Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists" - There's a very good chance you're lying. Not saying its impossible, but 30mph using just your leg power going "through" Brockenhurst is almost impossible. Unless you mean you were crawling down Lyndhurst Road at 30mph, then you may have been passed as that road is prime speed building tarmac for road bikes.

“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." - The event itself is not a race. Riders are indeed timed but I bet you if it was a race, peoples times would get faster, no doubt about that.

“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle." - Why are they on the road when there are dozens of bikes coming? That will be their fault. Don't hit me with the arguement that "Old people can't see or hear as well as everyone else and may not see the bikes coming" If thats the case, there are things called crossings and people called carers. Don't let anyone outside by themselves if they can't take adequate care of themselves. Harsh fact of life but a fact nonetheless.

I went from St Marys to the Sports Centre on Tuesday night at 6pm and came back around 8pm. I do this every Tuesday & Thursday & some Saturdays also. Lights front and back, very well maintained bike with good brakes. On the way up, a Dominos pizza car almost knocked me off the cycle path, the driver of which just shook his head. Shortly after that, a man and his lady companion walking their dog right down the cycle path when there is plenty of room on the pavement, pretty much refused to get out of the way. I sounded my horn(which is an AirZound, look it up), the dog papped itself and the man shouted at me "Who do you think you are?". The common was fine, all smooth and nobody got in the way. Cyclists with lights went by on the other side, all fine. Back on the road at the other end, turned into WInchester Road and entered the designated cycle lane. Before I had gone 100m, BEEEEEEEEEEEPP! from behind me. LIke I was in the Ford Fiesta's way.

No road warriors on the way back, just as I was about to exit the cycle path just after Dock o The Bay, two joggers came straight towards me with no intention of moving. So I stopped dead. One of them actually clipped his hand on my brake lever, he was that intent that the cycle lane was made for him.

Tell me who the problem is on the roads. Its not the cyclists. The kids on their witch hunt to relieve their boredom should look at themselves before blaming people. How many deaths/injuries on the road, animals or people due to cyclists?? Compare it to how many by Car/any motor vehicle. Then shut up. Have a coke and a smile and shut up.
Oh sod off!!! What is wrong with people?!?! Why aren't the police looking into all the drivers who don't indicate and cut people off?? That happens every day, multiple times. They get away with it, every time. Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists" - There's a very good chance you're lying. Not saying its impossible, but 30mph using just your leg power going "through" Brockenhurst is almost impossible. Unless you mean you were crawling down Lyndhurst Road at 30mph, then you may have been passed as that road is prime speed building tarmac for road bikes. “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." - The event itself is not a race. Riders are indeed timed but I bet you if it was a race, peoples times would get faster, no doubt about that. “Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle." - Why are they on the road when there are dozens of bikes coming? That will be their fault. Don't hit me with the arguement that "Old people can't see or hear as well as everyone else and may not see the bikes coming" If thats the case, there are things called crossings and people called carers. Don't let anyone outside by themselves if they can't take adequate care of themselves. Harsh fact of life but a fact nonetheless. I went from St Marys to the Sports Centre on Tuesday night at 6pm and came back around 8pm. I do this every Tuesday & Thursday & some Saturdays also. Lights front and back, very well maintained bike with good brakes. On the way up, a Dominos pizza car almost knocked me off the cycle path, the driver of which just shook his head. Shortly after that, a man and his lady companion walking their dog right down the cycle path when there is plenty of room on the pavement, pretty much refused to get out of the way. I sounded my horn(which is an AirZound, look it up), the dog papped itself and the man shouted at me "Who do you think you are?". The common was fine, all smooth and nobody got in the way. Cyclists with lights went by on the other side, all fine. Back on the road at the other end, turned into WInchester Road and entered the designated cycle lane. Before I had gone 100m, BEEEEEEEEEEEPP! from behind me. LIke I was in the Ford Fiesta's way. No road warriors on the way back, just as I was about to exit the cycle path just after Dock o The Bay, two joggers came straight towards me with no intention of moving. So I stopped dead. One of them actually clipped his hand on my brake lever, he was that intent that the cycle lane was made for him. Tell me who the problem is on the roads. Its not the cyclists. The kids on their witch hunt to relieve their boredom should look at themselves before blaming people. How many deaths/injuries on the road, animals or people due to cyclists?? Compare it to how many by Car/any motor vehicle. Then shut up. Have a coke and a smile and shut up. camerajuan

10:46am Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone.

There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know.

They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc.

I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.
[quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone. There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know. They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc. I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve. southamptonadi

11:02am Fri 13 Dec 13

Richard 51 says...

Here we go again........
Here we go again........ Richard 51

11:09am Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

camerajuan wrote:
Oh sod off!!! What is wrong with people?!?!

Why aren't the police looking into all the drivers who don't indicate and cut people off?? That happens every day, multiple times. They get away with it, every time.

Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists" - There's a very good chance you're lying. Not saying its impossible, but 30mph using just your leg power going "through" Brockenhurst is almost impossible. Unless you mean you were crawling down Lyndhurst Road at 30mph, then you may have been passed as that road is prime speed building tarmac for road bikes.

“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." - The event itself is not a race. Riders are indeed timed but I bet you if it was a race, peoples times would get faster, no doubt about that.

“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle." - Why are they on the road when there are dozens of bikes coming? That will be their fault. Don't hit me with the arguement that "Old people can't see or hear as well as everyone else and may not see the bikes coming" If thats the case, there are things called crossings and people called carers. Don't let anyone outside by themselves if they can't take adequate care of themselves. Harsh fact of life but a fact nonetheless.

I went from St Marys to the Sports Centre on Tuesday night at 6pm and came back around 8pm. I do this every Tuesday & Thursday & some Saturdays also. Lights front and back, very well maintained bike with good brakes. On the way up, a Dominos pizza car almost knocked me off the cycle path, the driver of which just shook his head. Shortly after that, a man and his lady companion walking their dog right down the cycle path when there is plenty of room on the pavement, pretty much refused to get out of the way. I sounded my horn(which is an AirZound, look it up), the dog papped itself and the man shouted at me "Who do you think you are?". The common was fine, all smooth and nobody got in the way. Cyclists with lights went by on the other side, all fine. Back on the road at the other end, turned into WInchester Road and entered the designated cycle lane. Before I had gone 100m, BEEEEEEEEEEEPP! from behind me. LIke I was in the Ford Fiesta's way.

No road warriors on the way back, just as I was about to exit the cycle path just after Dock o The Bay, two joggers came straight towards me with no intention of moving. So I stopped dead. One of them actually clipped his hand on my brake lever, he was that intent that the cycle lane was made for him.

Tell me who the problem is on the roads. Its not the cyclists. The kids on their witch hunt to relieve their boredom should look at themselves before blaming people. How many deaths/injuries on the road, animals or people due to cyclists?? Compare it to how many by Car/any motor vehicle. Then shut up. Have a coke and a smile and shut up.
Your right about the Maureen Holdings comment as the 102 mile route of which all the serious "lycra clad roadies" were doing never went through Brockenhurst, only went around it so only the families and inexperienced riders were in Brock, cant believe for a minute one of them overtook her.

And if it was in a 40 MPH area then who cares, bet she does not phone the police if a car does it.
[quote][p][bold]camerajuan[/bold] wrote: Oh sod off!!! What is wrong with people?!?! Why aren't the police looking into all the drivers who don't indicate and cut people off?? That happens every day, multiple times. They get away with it, every time. Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists" - There's a very good chance you're lying. Not saying its impossible, but 30mph using just your leg power going "through" Brockenhurst is almost impossible. Unless you mean you were crawling down Lyndhurst Road at 30mph, then you may have been passed as that road is prime speed building tarmac for road bikes. “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." - The event itself is not a race. Riders are indeed timed but I bet you if it was a race, peoples times would get faster, no doubt about that. “Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle." - Why are they on the road when there are dozens of bikes coming? That will be their fault. Don't hit me with the arguement that "Old people can't see or hear as well as everyone else and may not see the bikes coming" If thats the case, there are things called crossings and people called carers. Don't let anyone outside by themselves if they can't take adequate care of themselves. Harsh fact of life but a fact nonetheless. I went from St Marys to the Sports Centre on Tuesday night at 6pm and came back around 8pm. I do this every Tuesday & Thursday & some Saturdays also. Lights front and back, very well maintained bike with good brakes. On the way up, a Dominos pizza car almost knocked me off the cycle path, the driver of which just shook his head. Shortly after that, a man and his lady companion walking their dog right down the cycle path when there is plenty of room on the pavement, pretty much refused to get out of the way. I sounded my horn(which is an AirZound, look it up), the dog papped itself and the man shouted at me "Who do you think you are?". The common was fine, all smooth and nobody got in the way. Cyclists with lights went by on the other side, all fine. Back on the road at the other end, turned into WInchester Road and entered the designated cycle lane. Before I had gone 100m, BEEEEEEEEEEEPP! from behind me. LIke I was in the Ford Fiesta's way. No road warriors on the way back, just as I was about to exit the cycle path just after Dock o The Bay, two joggers came straight towards me with no intention of moving. So I stopped dead. One of them actually clipped his hand on my brake lever, he was that intent that the cycle lane was made for him. Tell me who the problem is on the roads. Its not the cyclists. The kids on their witch hunt to relieve their boredom should look at themselves before blaming people. How many deaths/injuries on the road, animals or people due to cyclists?? Compare it to how many by Car/any motor vehicle. Then shut up. Have a coke and a smile and shut up.[/p][/quote]Your right about the Maureen Holdings comment as the 102 mile route of which all the serious "lycra clad roadies" were doing never went through Brockenhurst, only went around it so only the families and inexperienced riders were in Brock, cant believe for a minute one of them overtook her. And if it was in a 40 MPH area then who cares, bet she does not phone the police if a car does it. southamptonadi

11:14am Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle"

Brilliant argument against the wiggle,

BUT can they please use the same arguement for a more serioous issue and i will change one word and add another two to form an actual factual statement which should be then handed over to the roads policing unit.

“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person or ANIMAL is hit by a CAR"

Oh thats already happens
“Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person is hit by a cycle" Brilliant argument against the wiggle, BUT can they please use the same arguement for a more serioous issue and i will change one word and add another two to form an actual factual statement which should be then handed over to the roads policing unit. “Some of them go very fast and it’s only a matter of time before an old person or ANIMAL is hit by a CAR" Oh thats already happens southamptonadi

11:21am Fri 13 Dec 13

GoonerEIE says...

Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals.
Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals. GoonerEIE

11:22am Fri 13 Dec 13

GoonerEIE says...

Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals
Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals GoonerEIE

12:36pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Lopekal says...

spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
No, its not.

Even in individually run races such as time trials, you are competing against all other entrants. In a sportive, you are competing against yourself.

The gold/silver/bronze medal is not accurate as the sportives I took part in everyone was awarded the same medal but your time fell into one of three bands, according to how fast you were.

If the police find no foundation in the allegations then I think they should compile a case against the NPA for wasting police time.
[quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]No, its not. Even in individually run races such as time trials, you are competing against all other entrants. In a sportive, you are competing against yourself. The gold/silver/bronze medal is not accurate as the sportives I took part in everyone was awarded the same medal but your time fell into one of three bands, according to how fast you were. If the police find no foundation in the allegations then I think they should compile a case against the NPA for wasting police time. Lopekal

12:43pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

This is a comment from NPA member David Harrison a very good read

I found myself very alone today, at a meeting of the New Forest National Park Authority, discussing the issue of large scale cycling events in the New Forest. They say that lies travel three times around the world before the truth has a chance to put its boots on. I feel that I am doomed forever, to keep hearing the same old anecdotes about how 'terribly behaved" cyclists are and that they are completely ruining the traditions of New Forest life.

I was the only member who spoke positively about the cycling events. They involve thousands of people. They are well organised events. They bring great benefits to the area, including environmental and economic ones, as well as achieving one of the Park Purposes - to allow people to enjoy our National Park. I sat through speeches from other members, recounting for the fifth or sixth time a story that painted cyclists in a bad light. I could not help wondering how many times they had experienced far worse behaviour from fellow car drivers in that same time frame.

As I said at the meeting, it's cars that should get much more of our attention in terms of the harm they cause the area, whether it is traffic congestion, vehicle emissions, the annual carnage of ponies, donkeys and cattle. I'm afraid that other members seem much more concerned with "playing to the gallery", trying to satisfy the Range Rover drivers of Brockenhurst who can't stand to be inconvenienced by the odd cyclist once in a while. It's a "National" park... it belongs to everyone.

I welcome the freedom of cyclists to visit it from other areas and to enjoy it in a responsible way. Most of them do. Sometimes, the locals who complain need to be reminded of that reality. It isn't their own personal exclusive area so that only locals decide what is and isn't appropriate. Even the much heralded story put out that a large cycling event stopped The Drift from happening proved to be a complete falsehood.

The cycling event in question was organised and registered long before a date was chosen for The Drift. I keep hearing this lie. It was printed in the paper. It must be true, they say. If anyone bothers to check the facts they will find out the truth.
This is a comment from NPA member David Harrison a very good read I found myself very alone today, at a meeting of the New Forest National Park Authority, discussing the issue of large scale cycling events in the New Forest. They say that lies travel three times around the world before the truth has a chance to put its boots on. I feel that I am doomed forever, to keep hearing the same old anecdotes about how 'terribly behaved" cyclists are and that they are completely ruining the traditions of New Forest life. I was the only member who spoke positively about the cycling events. They involve thousands of people. They are well organised events. They bring great benefits to the area, including environmental and economic ones, as well as achieving one of the Park Purposes - to allow people to enjoy our National Park. I sat through speeches from other members, recounting for the fifth or sixth time a story that painted cyclists in a bad light. I could not help wondering how many times they had experienced far worse behaviour from fellow car drivers in that same time frame. As I said at the meeting, it's cars that should get much more of our attention in terms of the harm they cause the area, whether it is traffic congestion, vehicle emissions, the annual carnage of ponies, donkeys and cattle. I'm afraid that other members seem much more concerned with "playing to the gallery", trying to satisfy the Range Rover drivers of Brockenhurst who can't stand to be inconvenienced by the odd cyclist once in a while. It's a "National" park... it belongs to everyone. I welcome the freedom of cyclists to visit it from other areas and to enjoy it in a responsible way. Most of them do. Sometimes, the locals who complain need to be reminded of that reality. It isn't their own personal exclusive area so that only locals decide what is and isn't appropriate. Even the much heralded story put out that a large cycling event stopped The Drift from happening proved to be a complete falsehood. The cycling event in question was organised and registered long before a date was chosen for The Drift. I keep hearing this lie. It was printed in the paper. It must be true, they say. If anyone bothers to check the facts they will find out the truth. southamptonadi

1:01pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Waste of police time looking into nonsense made up by anti-cycling locals.
Waste of police time looking into nonsense made up by anti-cycling locals. Ginger_cyclist

1:04pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

southamptonadi wrote:
This is a comment from NPA member David Harrison a very good read

I found myself very alone today, at a meeting of the New Forest National Park Authority, discussing the issue of large scale cycling events in the New Forest. They say that lies travel three times around the world before the truth has a chance to put its boots on. I feel that I am doomed forever, to keep hearing the same old anecdotes about how 'terribly behaved" cyclists are and that they are completely ruining the traditions of New Forest life.

I was the only member who spoke positively about the cycling events. They involve thousands of people. They are well organised events. They bring great benefits to the area, including environmental and economic ones, as well as achieving one of the Park Purposes - to allow people to enjoy our National Park. I sat through speeches from other members, recounting for the fifth or sixth time a story that painted cyclists in a bad light. I could not help wondering how many times they had experienced far worse behaviour from fellow car drivers in that same time frame.

As I said at the meeting, it's cars that should get much more of our attention in terms of the harm they cause the area, whether it is traffic congestion, vehicle emissions, the annual carnage of ponies, donkeys and cattle. I'm afraid that other members seem much more concerned with "playing to the gallery", trying to satisfy the Range Rover drivers of Brockenhurst who can't stand to be inconvenienced by the odd cyclist once in a while. It's a "National" park... it belongs to everyone.

I welcome the freedom of cyclists to visit it from other areas and to enjoy it in a responsible way. Most of them do. Sometimes, the locals who complain need to be reminded of that reality. It isn't their own personal exclusive area so that only locals decide what is and isn't appropriate. Even the much heralded story put out that a large cycling event stopped The Drift from happening proved to be a complete falsehood.

The cycling event in question was organised and registered long before a date was chosen for The Drift. I keep hearing this lie. It was printed in the paper. It must be true, they say. If anyone bothers to check the facts they will find out the truth.
Heard it here first people, everything you've been reading about how bad cyclists in these events are, is for the most part, total bull.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: This is a comment from NPA member David Harrison a very good read I found myself very alone today, at a meeting of the New Forest National Park Authority, discussing the issue of large scale cycling events in the New Forest. They say that lies travel three times around the world before the truth has a chance to put its boots on. I feel that I am doomed forever, to keep hearing the same old anecdotes about how 'terribly behaved" cyclists are and that they are completely ruining the traditions of New Forest life. I was the only member who spoke positively about the cycling events. They involve thousands of people. They are well organised events. They bring great benefits to the area, including environmental and economic ones, as well as achieving one of the Park Purposes - to allow people to enjoy our National Park. I sat through speeches from other members, recounting for the fifth or sixth time a story that painted cyclists in a bad light. I could not help wondering how many times they had experienced far worse behaviour from fellow car drivers in that same time frame. As I said at the meeting, it's cars that should get much more of our attention in terms of the harm they cause the area, whether it is traffic congestion, vehicle emissions, the annual carnage of ponies, donkeys and cattle. I'm afraid that other members seem much more concerned with "playing to the gallery", trying to satisfy the Range Rover drivers of Brockenhurst who can't stand to be inconvenienced by the odd cyclist once in a while. It's a "National" park... it belongs to everyone. I welcome the freedom of cyclists to visit it from other areas and to enjoy it in a responsible way. Most of them do. Sometimes, the locals who complain need to be reminded of that reality. It isn't their own personal exclusive area so that only locals decide what is and isn't appropriate. Even the much heralded story put out that a large cycling event stopped The Drift from happening proved to be a complete falsehood. The cycling event in question was organised and registered long before a date was chosen for The Drift. I keep hearing this lie. It was printed in the paper. It must be true, they say. If anyone bothers to check the facts they will find out the truth.[/p][/quote]Heard it here first people, everything you've been reading about how bad cyclists in these events are, is for the most part, total bull. Ginger_cyclist

1:11pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

This is very much a witch hunt against cyclists - I rode this event without any of these occurrences described being evidenced.

This is patently a lie: 'Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists.' - Unless travelling down a steep hill cyclists rarely exceed 30 mph, and then only if they are Chris Boardman!

If a minority of cyclists in these events are breaking the law, then arrest them and deal with them, but do not take ALL CYCLISTS to task with these sweeping accusations! I don't blame and lump all drivers together when a few drive around not indcating, cutting me up, or driving while on a mobile phone (7X more dangerous than driving on drink-drive limit)! The only incident I saw that constituted a breaking of the law on this event, was a very narrow lane where we were travelling at single file and a Land Rover and trailer insisted on overtaking, actually touching cyclists elbows with wing mirrors and the trailer wheel arches very nearly took two cyclists out - completely illegal manouevre!

I will never come to the Forest again if this attitude succeeds in banning these events. I used to camp with the family on many occasions in the New Forest - this attitude is souring all those memories.

I do know that this mentality has nothing to do with actual law breaking, its just that some in the New Forest want to keep it all to themselves, as if they own the public land and roads! This became obvious when from one year to the next the Verderers moved the date of their Drift to coincide with the event, so that they could make a fuss over cancelling and rescheduling!
This is very much a witch hunt against cyclists - I rode this event without any of these occurrences described being evidenced. This is patently a lie: 'Maureen Holding said: “I was driving through Brockenhurst at 30mph and was overtaken by cyclists.' - Unless travelling down a steep hill cyclists rarely exceed 30 mph, and then only if they are Chris Boardman! If a minority of cyclists in these events are breaking the law, then arrest them and deal with them, but do not take ALL CYCLISTS to task with these sweeping accusations! I don't blame and lump all drivers together when a few drive around not indcating, cutting me up, or driving while on a mobile phone (7X more dangerous than driving on drink-drive limit)! The only incident I saw that constituted a breaking of the law on this event, was a very narrow lane where we were travelling at single file and a Land Rover and trailer insisted on overtaking, actually touching cyclists elbows with wing mirrors and the trailer wheel arches very nearly took two cyclists out - completely illegal manouevre! I will never come to the Forest again if this attitude succeeds in banning these events. I used to camp with the family on many occasions in the New Forest - this attitude is souring all those memories. I do know that this mentality has nothing to do with actual law breaking, its just that some in the New Forest want to keep it all to themselves, as if they own the public land and roads! This became obvious when from one year to the next the Verderers moved the date of their Drift to coincide with the event, so that they could make a fuss over cancelling and rescheduling! HerbieGreen

1:12pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

Question the Tyranny of the Motor Car, and what do you get?! This! An attempt to get cyclists off the road, so that those that think it is their right to 'own' these roads can carry on without any inconvenience!
Question the Tyranny of the Motor Car, and what do you get?! This! An attempt to get cyclists off the road, so that those that think it is their right to 'own' these roads can carry on without any inconvenience! HerbieGreen

1:18pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
So are the 'fun runs' seen all over the country - they're never called races - hey are similarly personal challenges, like the car treasure hunts that go on all over the country!
[quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]So are the 'fun runs' seen all over the country - they're never called races - hey are similarly personal challenges, like the car treasure hunts that go on all over the country! HerbieGreen

1:22pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

Police - get off your arses, and stop pandering to the local bigwigs who want to be able to drive at will unimpeded, and instead get out there and stop motorists driving on mobile phones, not indicating, turning across cyclists, coming close than the EUR reg 1.33m when overtaking (I'd be happy with 1/2 that as a start!), and other much more dangerous things!! Where is your focus!
Police - get off your arses, and stop pandering to the local bigwigs who want to be able to drive at will unimpeded, and instead get out there and stop motorists driving on mobile phones, not indicating, turning across cyclists, coming close than the EUR reg 1.33m when overtaking (I'd be happy with 1/2 that as a start!), and other much more dangerous things!! Where is your focus! HerbieGreen

1:36pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins. southamptonadi

1:47pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

seems strange that all the cyclists here are being pelite theres no abuse or arguing, I wonder if actually people are realising the truth about these events.

I suppose the trolls will log on later I bet they have read the story and cant wait to get home and start the usual rubbish about cyclists they see in town which is irelevent about these storys and there hatred of all things without four wheels.
seems strange that all the cyclists here are being pelite theres no abuse or arguing, I wonder if actually people are realising the truth about these events. I suppose the trolls will log on later I bet they have read the story and cant wait to get home and start the usual rubbish about cyclists they see in town which is irelevent about these storys and there hatred of all things without four wheels. southamptonadi

1:47pm Fri 13 Dec 13

S Pance says...

southamptonadi wrote:
spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone.

There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know.

They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc.

I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.
I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"!

They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can.

Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics.

The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone. There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know. They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc. I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.[/p][/quote]I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"! They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can. Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics. The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition. S Pance

1:50pm Fri 13 Dec 13

good-gosh says...

The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.
The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint. good-gosh

1:50pm Fri 13 Dec 13

S Pance says...

southamptonadi wrote:
spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone.

There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know.

They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc.

I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.
I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"!

They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can.

Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics.

The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone. There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know. They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc. I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.[/p][/quote]I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"! They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can. Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics. The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition. S Pance

1:55pm Fri 13 Dec 13

S Pance says...

southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't) S Pance

2:00pm Fri 13 Dec 13

AFrustratedCyclist says...

southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
"DE is pro cycling" now that is funny!
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]"DE is pro cycling" now that is funny! AFrustratedCyclist

2:09pm Fri 13 Dec 13

AFrustratedCyclist says...

S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
Because anti-cycling locals have made up and or wildly exaggerated their own version of events and are endlessly kicking up a fuss with the NPA etc and some clearly have friends in the right places!

There is already a charter which the wiggle events have fully complied with, despite that the local anti-cycling bigots want the forest and it's road to themselves, to the exclusion of whichever groups they decide they don't like.
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]Because anti-cycling locals have made up and or wildly exaggerated their own version of events and are endlessly kicking up a fuss with the NPA etc and some clearly have friends in the right places! There is already a charter which the wiggle events have fully complied with, despite that the local anti-cycling bigots want the forest and it's road to themselves, to the exclusion of whichever groups they decide they don't like. AFrustratedCyclist

2:23pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does.

http://www.dharrison
.org.uk/no-crack-dow
n-on-cycling/

The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA

Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does. http://www.dharrison .org.uk/no-crack-dow n-on-cycling/ The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google. southamptonadi

2:27pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

good-gosh wrote:
The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.
What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!!
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.[/p][/quote]What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!! HerbieGreen

2:30pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone.

There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know.

They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc.

I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.
I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"!

They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can.

Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics.

The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.
Its all within the guidelines of the law. Its a race against yourself, and even so you say cyclists are doing the higest speed they can, ITs still within the speed limit so why is that wrong. I go flat out to work on my bike allways trying to beat my previous attemept, I better hand myself in for racing agaisnt myself. oh and i still stick to speed limits and signs and lights and am safe,

I used to go along and join in a race as a co driver in cars, but as it was an event that determined the winner was the closest to a set legal speed, you had to go flat out to make up for the slow bits, Thats not a race either aparantly but no one cares about cars doing it.
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone. There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know. They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc. I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.[/p][/quote]I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"! They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can. Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics. The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.[/p][/quote]Its all within the guidelines of the law. Its a race against yourself, and even so you say cyclists are doing the higest speed they can, ITs still within the speed limit so why is that wrong. I go flat out to work on my bike allways trying to beat my previous attemept, I better hand myself in for racing agaisnt myself. oh and i still stick to speed limits and signs and lights and am safe, I used to go along and join in a race as a co driver in cars, but as it was an event that determined the winner was the closest to a set legal speed, you had to go flat out to make up for the slow bits, Thats not a race either aparantly but no one cares about cars doing it. southamptonadi

2:37pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

southamptonadi wrote:
S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does.

http://www.dharrison

.org.uk/no-crack-dow

n-on-cycling/

The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA

Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.
sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out.

Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does. http://www.dharrison .org.uk/no-crack-dow n-on-cycling/ The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.[/p][/quote]sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out. Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off. southamptonadi

2:56pm Fri 13 Dec 13

stag666 says...

southamptonadi wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does.

http://www.dharrison


.org.uk/no-crack-dow


n-on-cycling/

The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA

Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.
sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out.

Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off.
I'm bored now.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does. http://www.dharrison .org.uk/no-crack-dow n-on-cycling/ The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.[/p][/quote]sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out. Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off.[/p][/quote]I'm bored now. stag666

3:04pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
OK then - lets have a motorists charter - they haven't been behaving for years - but nobody does bugger all about it!!
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]OK then - lets have a motorists charter - they haven't been behaving for years - but nobody does bugger all about it!! HerbieGreen

3:06pm Fri 13 Dec 13

westhantsboy says...

For gods sake , the Police have far better and more important cases to look into without being bothered by this namby pamby, anti cycling rubbish. The cuts on the force already are having an impact without having to waste valuable time and effort on this rubbish. Sooner they concentrated on routine stuff then having to sort this out.
For gods sake , the Police have far better and more important cases to look into without being bothered by this namby pamby, anti cycling rubbish. The cuts on the force already are having an impact without having to waste valuable time and effort on this rubbish. Sooner they concentrated on routine stuff then having to sort this out. westhantsboy

3:26pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

stag666 wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
Ive been investigating as im bored,

Acording to godshll parish council minutes,
The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama.

The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story.

And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill.

Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling.
Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.
Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not?

Link, please!

The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)
A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does.

http://www.dharrison



.org.uk/no-crack-dow



n-on-cycling/

The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA

Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.
sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out.

Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off.
I'm bored now.
Go away then read something else
[quote][p][bold]stag666[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: Ive been investigating as im bored, Acording to godshll parish council minutes, The poo story is not as big as thought, all they recommended was to send a complaint and ask for temporary toilets to be installed next time. no drama. The story about a crackdown on cyclists is a non story, NPA member and cllr harrison has stated while he is in charge their will be no crackdon. non story. And this story well a member of public who remains unknown, but I wonder why Ms Maureen Holding pops up on this story. has put in crime report for breach of section 31 road traffic act 1988, Which is about racing on public roads, oh this person lives in godshill. Theres a clear agenda by some at the NPA and other places I wont mention the Daily Echo as the editor has put on record to me that the DE is pro cycling. Maybe they should do a bit of digging like I have to put in there apparantly balanced reports. Only took five mins.[/p][/quote]Where is it stated that Cllr Harrisson is in charge of the NPA and New Forest? Since when did he determine whether the police will have a crackdown, or not? Link, please! The NPA are compiling a cyclists charter. Why would they be doing this if cyclists had behaved at previous events? (Clue: answer is, they wouldn't)[/p][/quote]A, I never said he ahd anything to do with the police, There are investigating alledged breach of section 31 RTA 1988 When I said the story about a crackdown it refers to an earilier story on a crackdown, as is the poo story, It took me minutes to google it but to save you time here is a link to the crackdown story. where it also clearly says what he does. http://www.dharrison .org.uk/no-crack-dow n-on-cycling/ The charter is well nothing its all air coming from anti cycling members of the NPA Cllr Harrisons words too. the anti cycling bit anyway. please read my earlier quote from cllr harris about the lies from the NPA Anything else I can help you with today, Im getting good with google.[/p][/quote]sorry Just reread what you said hes in charge of transport not the NPA or new forest, I just quoted HIS words. Dont shoot the mesenger. But I hope you read his comments about it all and the lies that keep on getting trotted out. Lets just let some cyclists have a little ride around the forest, It goes on all over the country without any issues Its only the NF that kicks off.[/p][/quote]I'm bored now.[/p][/quote]Go away then read something else southamptonadi

3:33pm Fri 13 Dec 13

loosehead says...

So some car drivers & motorists complain to the police & a investigations set up? how are they going to check if it was cyclists? car drivers or lads coming out of the pub that urinated?
did this lady take photos of it?
I can't believe that something that gives so much pleasure to hundreds if not thousands can be so hated by so few yet the police are investigating it what were the results of the investigation in the attempt on cyclists health? Tacks & slurry spread on the road wasn't put there by mistake or to help the cyclists was it.
I know why don't all the cyclists take to their cars( all in this event) & do a drive slow for safety's sake clog up the roads & see the uproar!
So some car drivers & motorists complain to the police & a investigations set up? how are they going to check if it was cyclists? car drivers or lads coming out of the pub that urinated? did this lady take photos of it? I can't believe that something that gives so much pleasure to hundreds if not thousands can be so hated by so few yet the police are investigating it what were the results of the investigation in the attempt on cyclists health? Tacks & slurry spread on the road wasn't put there by mistake or to help the cyclists was it. I know why don't all the cyclists take to their cars( all in this event) & do a drive slow for safety's sake clog up the roads & see the uproar! loosehead

3:46pm Fri 13 Dec 13

bigfella777 says...

This is how the snobs and hoi polloi work. They know all the people in local government, magistrates, police ect personally and invite each other to social gatherings. Then when something doesn't suit their elitist outlook they know how to pull the right strings to get something done about it.
Non democracy and unequal rights in action.
This is how the snobs and hoi polloi work. They know all the people in local government, magistrates, police ect personally and invite each other to social gatherings. Then when something doesn't suit their elitist outlook they know how to pull the right strings to get something done about it. Non democracy and unequal rights in action. bigfella777

3:58pm Fri 13 Dec 13

throatwarbler says...

i think all these chubby cyclists should force themselves out of their lycra and go for a run - some proper exercise.

Anybody had the pleasure of trying to be a pedestrian on the perimeter path in Richmond Park?

I just love the way all the masses have taken cycling to their hearts because we got good at it at the olympics.
i think all these chubby cyclists should force themselves out of their lycra and go for a run - some proper exercise. Anybody had the pleasure of trying to be a pedestrian on the perimeter path in Richmond Park? I just love the way all the masses have taken cycling to their hearts because we got good at it at the olympics. throatwarbler

4:36pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

Some cyclists behave badly. Some behave considerately.
Some car drivers behave badly. Some behave considerately.
Some motorcyclists behave badly. Some behave considerately.
Some moped riders behave badly. Some behave considerately.
Some pedestrians behave badly. Some behave considerately.

Apparently the tribal instinct is so deeply embedded in our species that many find this a very challenging set of concepts to handle.
Some cyclists behave badly. Some behave considerately. Some car drivers behave badly. Some behave considerately. Some motorcyclists behave badly. Some behave considerately. Some moped riders behave badly. Some behave considerately. Some pedestrians behave badly. Some behave considerately. Apparently the tribal instinct is so deeply embedded in our species that many find this a very challenging set of concepts to handle. cantthinkofone

4:58pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Drhysted says...

S Pance wrote:
southamptonadi wrote:
spotburst wrote:
“Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went."

er.. isn't that a race?
Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone.

There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know.

They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc.

I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.
I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"!

They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can.

Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics.

The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.
My average speed over 102 miles was 13.5mph. Now that is really going to set the world alight isn't it.
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spotburst[/bold] wrote: “Police say the events aren’t races but the riders are timed and given gold, silver or bronze medals according to how fast they went." er.. isn't that a race?[/p][/quote]Actually that is incorrect and actually made up by someone. There are NO gold, silver bronze or medals. You get a medal for completing the ride and they are given out when you finish the times are not even released untill the next day, so how would they know. They are all the same colour and I can prove it to hampshire constabulary, There is a table that says in alphabetical order if you completed in a set time which is based on those three colours, Is that really any different to any motorist who says how fast they can get to any given city etc. I time myself just like any runner does so I can see my fitness improve.[/p][/quote]I see that Wiggle have changed references on their site to "sportive events"! They are defined as a "cycling event against the clock", thus, people are competing to put in the best time (Thus highest speed) that they can. Whether you call this a "race" is purely down to semantics. The fact is, cyclists are attempting to do the highest speed they can, by definition.[/p][/quote]My average speed over 102 miles was 13.5mph. Now that is really going to set the world alight isn't it. Drhysted

5:28pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

Sounds like people are making up a few porkies about the "evil cyclists" what next "oh we saw one worshipping satan and sacrificed a child"

*Rolls eyes*

Demonising cyclists is hardly helping the situation perhaps understanding the other sides point of view will help ease all this tension
Sounds like people are making up a few porkies about the "evil cyclists" what next "oh we saw one worshipping satan and sacrificed a child" *Rolls eyes* Demonising cyclists is hardly helping the situation perhaps understanding the other sides point of view will help ease all this tension Mary80

5:40pm Fri 13 Dec 13

good-gosh says...

HerbieGreen wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.
What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!!
Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary
[quote][p][bold]HerbieGreen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.[/p][/quote]What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!![/p][/quote]Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary good-gosh

6:10pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

good-gosh wrote:
HerbieGreen wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.
What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!!
Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary
Precisely - parking attendants deal with cars parked over time limit in parking bays and car parks, to get money; no one deals with badly parked cars on double yellow lines on blind bends that I have to run the gauntlet of, because that doesn't pay. But they are investigating anecdotal evidence of misdemeanours in the New forest by a minority of cyclists!
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HerbieGreen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.[/p][/quote]What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!![/p][/quote]Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary[/p][/quote]Precisely - parking attendants deal with cars parked over time limit in parking bays and car parks, to get money; no one deals with badly parked cars on double yellow lines on blind bends that I have to run the gauntlet of, because that doesn't pay. But they are investigating anecdotal evidence of misdemeanours in the New forest by a minority of cyclists! HerbieGreen

6:10pm Fri 13 Dec 13

loosehead says...

good-gosh wrote:
HerbieGreen wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.
What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!!
Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary
Members complained that cyclists were racing on the public highway, defecating on village greens and shouting abuse at anyone who got in their way.
Unless these people have positive proof this actually happened(pictures/ph
oto's) then this is just hear say.
Complaints by NFA members & friends really can't be taken seriously or is the Police Commissioner a member?
I was in the RCT Ta & have driven around the forest & seen cars pull over to have a tinkle yet no one seemed to complain about that?
Racing on a public highway? yes I can see a racing motorbike or high powered sports cars racing would be against the law but bicycles?
for a bike to hit another vehicle the bike rider would come off worse & to hit a pedestrian both would suffer injuries wouldn't they?
Why oh why can't New Forest residents( Anti Cycle events) not plan a route around the race/cycle event or are they saying the only people allowed to ride/drive through the New Forest are residents?
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HerbieGreen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The police are impartial - but must investigate a formal complaint.[/p][/quote]What about all the incidents of bad passing, mobile phone usage, parking illegally, and so on that are filmed, photographed and reported and nothing is done - I reported a car parked on a path/cycle lane, with photo, but becuase it was hire car they couldn't be bothered. But someone anecdotally with no proof says 'cyclists overtook me in Brockenhurst' where the event did not go, and the Police investigate - no sorry that's not impartial, that's reactionary and anti-cyclist!![/p][/quote]Well, I'm no lawyer but in my book the police investigate crimes, not civil misdemeanours like thoughtless parking - although they will always provide advice where necessary[/p][/quote]Members complained that cyclists were racing on the public highway, defecating on village greens and shouting abuse at anyone who got in their way. Unless these people have positive proof this actually happened(pictures/ph oto's) then this is just hear say. Complaints by NFA members & friends really can't be taken seriously or is the Police Commissioner a member? I was in the RCT Ta & have driven around the forest & seen cars pull over to have a tinkle yet no one seemed to complain about that? Racing on a public highway? yes I can see a racing motorbike or high powered sports cars racing would be against the law but bicycles? for a bike to hit another vehicle the bike rider would come off worse & to hit a pedestrian both would suffer injuries wouldn't they? Why oh why can't New Forest residents( Anti Cycle events) not plan a route around the race/cycle event or are they saying the only people allowed to ride/drive through the New Forest are residents? loosehead

6:30pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing.

I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.
Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing. I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation. cantthinkofone

6:35pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

cantthinkofone wrote:
Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing.

I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.
All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead.
[quote][p][bold]cantthinkofone[/bold] wrote: Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing. I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.[/p][/quote]All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead. Ginger_cyclist

6:40pm Fri 13 Dec 13

HerbieGreen says...

I presume the number of the cyclist who defecated on a village green was noted by the person making the accusation - as that would have been an easy thing to do when they had their trousers down! Can you really see someone doing this in broad daylight in the middle of a village? This just smacks of more fabricated accusations!! Police, once you've established the facts, if there is no truth to this I hope you will be prosecuting the person who brought this accusation!! Defamation, wasting time.....
I presume the number of the cyclist who defecated on a village green was noted by the person making the accusation - as that would have been an easy thing to do when they had their trousers down! Can you really see someone doing this in broad daylight in the middle of a village? This just smacks of more fabricated accusations!! Police, once you've established the facts, if there is no truth to this I hope you will be prosecuting the person who brought this accusation!! Defamation, wasting time..... HerbieGreen

7:13pm Fri 13 Dec 13

The Spirit of St Louis says...

What Maureen Holding and members of the NPA don't understand is that it is sometimes necessary for these sportive cyclists to defecate on village greens. It's the natural by-product of using their intestinal gases to power themselves to speeds in excess of 30 mph on their bicycles. The more considerate wear nappies underneath their lycra shorts, so they can go while on the go. Some shout because they don't want to accidentally poop themselves while going so fast.
What Maureen Holding and members of the NPA don't understand is that it is sometimes necessary for these sportive cyclists to defecate on village greens. It's the natural by-product of using their intestinal gases to power themselves to speeds in excess of 30 mph on their bicycles. The more considerate wear nappies underneath their lycra shorts, so they can go while on the go. Some shout because they don't want to accidentally poop themselves while going so fast. The Spirit of St Louis

7:31pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Mary80 says...

Funny how the people "saw" the cyclists pooping yet oh DIDN'T REPORT IT...methinks the people are just stirring up anger at cyclists for their own amusement
Funny how the people "saw" the cyclists pooping yet oh DIDN'T REPORT IT...methinks the people are just stirring up anger at cyclists for their own amusement Mary80

8:08pm Fri 13 Dec 13

good-gosh says...

Now Wiggins is a knight he can chat up HRH for a rally freedom proclamation.
Now Wiggins is a knight he can chat up HRH for a rally freedom proclamation. good-gosh

8:12pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Sir Ad E Noid says...

GoonerEIE wrote:
Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals.
Meridian Garage deliver the cars to the prospective owners house for a test drive. Do you think if you were spending upwards of £150,000 on a car you would be seen in a showroom. Not saying a Ferrari hasn't sped down Beaulieu Road, but why pick on Meridian. No. I don't have anything to do with the Garage, and no, I don't own a Ferrari.
[quote][p][bold]GoonerEIE[/bold] wrote: Maybe the police should spend a bit more time tackling the speeding drivers and particularly those on a Ferrari test drive from the Meridien garage who treat Beaulieu Road as a race track & endanger the lives of both humans & animals.[/p][/quote]Meridian Garage deliver the cars to the prospective owners house for a test drive. Do you think if you were spending upwards of £150,000 on a car you would be seen in a showroom. Not saying a Ferrari hasn't sped down Beaulieu Road, but why pick on Meridian. No. I don't have anything to do with the Garage, and no, I don't own a Ferrari. Sir Ad E Noid

8:45pm Fri 13 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose. geoff51

9:05pm Fri 13 Dec 13

loosehead says...

geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police?
are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves?
How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest?
I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police? are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves? How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest? I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars? loosehead

9:30pm Fri 13 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police?
are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves?
How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest?
I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?
Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself.
You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route.
It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way.
I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police? are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves? How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest? I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?[/p][/quote]Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself. You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route. It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way. I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections geoff51

9:42pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Drhysted says...

geoff51 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police?
are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves?
How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest?
I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?
Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself.
You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route.
It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way.
I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections
Wiggle has actually complied with all the requirements.
The Drift was purposely timed to clash with an event that had been cleared with all the relevent agencies that run the New Forest (there is a number of groups but then you know that don't you as you live here) over a year beforehand.
The cyclists in question are using the Queens Highway, so do not effect the running of the New Forest, but then living here you already know that as well.

I'm just waiting for them to try banning cycling like they did dog walkers. After one meeting where they had to leave the Hotel and hold the conference on Boltons Bench due to the number of dog walkers that turned up to object, it was never discussed again. But then you know all this already as you have intimate knowledge of the New Forest.

Or you are a TROLL
everyone else please remember DO NOT FEED THE TROLL, I've given him his evening meal.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police? are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves? How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest? I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?[/p][/quote]Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself. You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route. It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way. I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections[/p][/quote]Wiggle has actually complied with all the requirements. The Drift was purposely timed to clash with an event that had been cleared with all the relevent agencies that run the New Forest (there is a number of groups but then you know that don't you as you live here) over a year beforehand. The cyclists in question are using the Queens Highway, so do not effect the running of the New Forest, but then living here you already know that as well. I'm just waiting for them to try banning cycling like they did dog walkers. After one meeting where they had to leave the Hotel and hold the conference on Boltons Bench due to the number of dog walkers that turned up to object, it was never discussed again. But then you know all this already as you have intimate knowledge of the New Forest. Or you are a TROLL everyone else please remember DO NOT FEED THE TROLL, I've given him his evening meal. Drhysted

10:05pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police?
are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves?
How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest?
I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?
Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself.
You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route.
It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way.
I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections
What about the new forest show that clogs the forest roads up with visitors for the financial gain of COMMERCIAL businesses who ply their trade and goods there? Or even tourists clogging the roads when visiting the Motor museum which is run these days, for the gain of a COMMERCIAL enterprise? In fact, what about most of the forest attractions that are there to make money and clog the roads with thousands of visitors who litter and relieve themselves at the side of the road? Heaven forbid that you get stuck behind one of bluestar's New Forest, open top tour buses that often have to keep to a speed lower than the speed limit for the safety of passengers, again, another thing providing commercial gain to a company/enterprise..
. You know what, let's just ban and close it all in the forest and watch as the whole area dies, because it seems as if that's what you ultimately want, you single track minded, foolish old nimby.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]I haven't got a cycle but why is it in summer the New Forest has thousands of tourists in cars slowing down traffic & making it awkward for residents to get about their business yet no investigation into their activities has been asked for by the NVA or the police? are you trying to say no car driver pulls over to relieve themselves? How many cars have been arrested for racing & how many accidents/deaths have been through car drivers speeding through the New Forest? I'd rather see cycles riding through in their thousands than bumper to bumper cars just think of the pollution that brings & the damage it does to the roads & environment or are you happy to see all those cars?[/p][/quote]Re read my post, my objection is to mass commercial events organised for profit by a commercial company with no interest in the forest itself. You cannot legislate against individual vehicles how ever many of them there are as they are not organised on a commercial basis to all meet at the same time and follow an pre decided route. It is I repeat the arrogance of the cyclists that does them no favours and to be accepted they must meet the objectors half way. I notice the Wiggle boss has kept quiet, this is part of the arrogance that annoys the forest associations that have raised the objections[/p][/quote]What about the new forest show that clogs the forest roads up with visitors for the financial gain of COMMERCIAL businesses who ply their trade and goods there? Or even tourists clogging the roads when visiting the Motor museum which is run these days, for the gain of a COMMERCIAL enterprise? In fact, what about most of the forest attractions that are there to make money and clog the roads with thousands of visitors who litter and relieve themselves at the side of the road? Heaven forbid that you get stuck behind one of bluestar's New Forest, open top tour buses that often have to keep to a speed lower than the speed limit for the safety of passengers, again, another thing providing commercial gain to a company/enterprise.. . You know what, let's just ban and close it all in the forest and watch as the whole area dies, because it seems as if that's what you ultimately want, you single track minded, foolish old nimby. Ginger_cyclist

10:30pm Fri 13 Dec 13

southamptonadi says...

geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
You quite often mention cylists roughshodding over forest life would you care to explain what you mean without meeting the great drift lie
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]You quite often mention cylists roughshodding over forest life would you care to explain what you mean without meeting the great drift lie southamptonadi

11:14pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cantthinkofone says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
cantthinkofone wrote:
Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing.

I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.
All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead.
Fancy a hobnob...?
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cantthinkofone[/bold] wrote: Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing. I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.[/p][/quote]All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead.[/p][/quote]Fancy a hobnob...? cantthinkofone

11:16pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

cantthinkofone wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
cantthinkofone wrote:
Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing.

I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.
All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead.
Fancy a hobnob...?
I'm ok thanks.
[quote][p][bold]cantthinkofone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cantthinkofone[/bold] wrote: Drivers frequently run the red lights at the junction between Winchester Road and Warren Avenue, even whilst pedestrians (often children on their way to/back from school) are crossing. I demand that a senior police officer mounts a full on investigation.[/p][/quote]All of this would be like me going to police, demanding a driver to be banned for life because they beeped at me through impatience... Pointless and a total waste of mine and the police's time, so I'll just upload the video instead.[/p][/quote]Fancy a hobnob...?[/p][/quote]I'm ok thanks. Ginger_cyclist

12:42am Sat 14 Dec 13

Sir Ad E Noid says...

geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff. Sir Ad E Noid

11:00am Sun 15 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

The biggest single nuisance each year is the traffic fiasco that is the New Forest Show.

Can we appeal against planning and prevent this year's show on the grounds of public nuisance?


Especially given the number of motorists and car occupants "relieving themselves" on the verges as they spend long periods in the traffic queue?
The biggest single nuisance each year is the traffic fiasco that is the New Forest Show. Can we appeal against planning and prevent this year's show on the grounds of public nuisance? Especially given the number of motorists and car occupants "relieving themselves" on the verges as they spend long periods in the traffic queue? DanWeston

8:39pm Sun 15 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
[quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster? DanWeston

8:56pm Sun 15 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
[quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races. geoff51

9:00pm Sun 15 Dec 13

loosehead says...

geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.[/p][/quote]So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day? loosehead

9:19pm Sun 15 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?
Not a thousand in one go are they? get real!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.[/p][/quote]So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?[/p][/quote]Not a thousand in one go are they? get real! geoff51

9:59pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?
Not a thousand in one go are they? get real!
They often are actually, yes, whereas the cyclists in these events, are not.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.[/p][/quote]So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?[/p][/quote]Not a thousand in one go are they? get real![/p][/quote]They often are actually, yes, whereas the cyclists in these events, are not. Ginger_cyclist

10:21pm Sun 15 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?
YES!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.[/p][/quote]So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?[/p][/quote]YES! geoff51

8:16am Mon 16 Dec 13

loosehead says...

geoff51 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
Sir Ad E Noid wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition.
The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis.
There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.
Well said Geoff.
According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds

My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337

If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?
The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings.
The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.
So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?
YES!
well I've driven through the forest in peak tourist time & I know your so so wrong
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Ad E Noid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Now all the back slapping from the wonderful world of self congratulating cyclists has been got out of the way, lets have some views from the opposition. The downright arrogance of the cycling fraternity is their own downfall, if they were to try to integrate with the running of the forest rather than riding roughshod over the wishes of the residents and commoners that care for the forest on a daily basis. There is never any objection to cyclists enjoying the beauty of the New Forest the complaint that this article raises is the massive commercial event with almost a thousand cyclists racing on roads that are patently unsuitable for that purpose.[/p][/quote]Well said Geoff.[/p][/quote]According to Geoff 51 a thousand cyclists travelling at 30 mph ("Racing speed") is a hazard as the roads are not designed to cope with these numbers and speeds My deeper concern is how they can cope with the much faster and more numerous cars. According to the New Forest National park, we see 12,000 vehicles a day (on average) passing along the Lyndhurst section of the A337 If 2,000 bicycles truly are a burden the system cannot cope with, then how can any sane person think it can tolerate 12,000 vehicles travelling faster?[/p][/quote]The difference my friend is that these vehicles are spread throughout the day and not released in clumps to race against each other whilst totally ignoring what the rest of the road users are doing as they are concentrating on racing rather than their surroundings. The reason so much traffic uses the 337 is that a few miles up the road the M27 ends with a sign pointing to the New Forest, thankfully cycles are banned from the motorway otherwise the cycles would be clogging up the 337 with their races.[/p][/quote]So your telling all of us that in the peak tourist season the cars are spread out through out the day?[/p][/quote]YES![/p][/quote]well I've driven through the forest in peak tourist time & I know your so so wrong loosehead

6:27am Tue 17 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination. DanWeston

7:57pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
[quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right' geoff51

9:23pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path? Ginger_cyclist

9:26pm Tue 17 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally! loosehead

9:43pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well? Ginger_cyclist

10:01pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races geoff51

10:04pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not. geoff51

10:09pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah?
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.[/p][/quote]Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah? Ginger_cyclist

10:24pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah?
Get real numpty and read my other posts regarding a closed mind.
Merry Christmas
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.[/p][/quote]Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah?[/p][/quote]Get real numpty and read my other posts regarding a closed mind. Merry Christmas geoff51

10:24pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent.
Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite;
1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them.
2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles.
3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives.
4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou".
5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong.
6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong.
7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights.
8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on.
9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on.
And...
10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light.
So yeah, try again hypocrite.

(Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent. Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite; 1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them. 2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles. 3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives. 4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou". 5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong. 6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong. 7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights. 8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on. 9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on. And... 10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light. So yeah, try again hypocrite. (Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.) Ginger_cyclist

10:26pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah?
Get real numpty and read my other posts regarding a closed mind.
Merry Christmas
Says the guy with a mind so closed that it makes Fort Nox look as if you can just walk right in.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.[/p][/quote]Neither are cars, buses, trucks, vans and motorbikes, let's ban those as well, yeah?[/p][/quote]Get real numpty and read my other posts regarding a closed mind. Merry Christmas[/p][/quote]Says the guy with a mind so closed that it makes Fort Nox look as if you can just walk right in. Ginger_cyclist

10:33pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Drhysted says...

geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
dear troll

when the forest was first created there were no motor powered vehicles. In fact history tells us that cycles were invented before motor powered vehicles.
So please do not used history for your bigoted egotistical views. (I haven't been able to take you seriously since you stated that your aim in life was to wind up cyclists).
I noticed that you failed to pick on my earlier post, which hints that you may not have the indepth knowledge that you think you have. Shown very clearly when you stated that Marchwood was not part of the New Forest, which showed that you do not know Marchwoods boundries (hint the Bold Forestor is in Marchwood, just check the sign as you go through the New Forest).
If you (and everyone else) carry on as you are, you will loose the New Forest. It will be run by an outside administraion group, put in place by the government to create as much revenue as possible. They already tried selling it as soon as it stopped being Crown Land and became a national park.
Finally if an attempt is put in place to ban cycling on the Queens Highway (which will require a new law), wait and see how many people turn up to object, the administration ran scared from the dog walkers, just wait and see what happens when you do get thousands of cyclists objecting.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.[/p][/quote]dear troll when the forest was first created there were no motor powered vehicles. In fact history tells us that cycles were invented before motor powered vehicles. So please do not used history for your bigoted egotistical views. (I haven't been able to take you seriously since you stated that your aim in life was to wind up cyclists). I noticed that you failed to pick on my earlier post, which hints that you may not have the indepth knowledge that you think you have. Shown very clearly when you stated that Marchwood was not part of the New Forest, which showed that you do not know Marchwoods boundries (hint the Bold Forestor is in Marchwood, just check the sign as you go through the New Forest). If you (and everyone else) carry on as you are, you will loose the New Forest. It will be run by an outside administraion group, put in place by the government to create as much revenue as possible. They already tried selling it as soon as it stopped being Crown Land and became a national park. Finally if an attempt is put in place to ban cycling on the Queens Highway (which will require a new law), wait and see how many people turn up to object, the administration ran scared from the dog walkers, just wait and see what happens when you do get thousands of cyclists objecting. Drhysted

10:40pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Drhysted wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?
doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads?
now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars?
So why not ban the both of them?
Ginger I agree with you totally!
Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?
Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.
dear troll

when the forest was first created there were no motor powered vehicles. In fact history tells us that cycles were invented before motor powered vehicles.
So please do not used history for your bigoted egotistical views. (I haven't been able to take you seriously since you stated that your aim in life was to wind up cyclists).
I noticed that you failed to pick on my earlier post, which hints that you may not have the indepth knowledge that you think you have. Shown very clearly when you stated that Marchwood was not part of the New Forest, which showed that you do not know Marchwoods boundries (hint the Bold Forestor is in Marchwood, just check the sign as you go through the New Forest).
If you (and everyone else) carry on as you are, you will loose the New Forest. It will be run by an outside administraion group, put in place by the government to create as much revenue as possible. They already tried selling it as soon as it stopped being Crown Land and became a national park.
Finally if an attempt is put in place to ban cycling on the Queens Highway (which will require a new law), wait and see how many people turn up to object, the administration ran scared from the dog walkers, just wait and see what happens when you do get thousands of cyclists objecting.
God you are so boring try getting a life outside cycling!
[quote][p][bold]Drhysted[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]And even the A35 has more than 1000 cars on it at a time, also your ignorance really knows no bounds, in sportives, you'll never find 1000's of cyclists bunched up together and sportives are NOT races, even the VERY strict laws on bicycle racing, doesn't class them as races, hence the law on bicycle racing needing to be held on closed roads doesn't apply to sportives, sportives don't meet the criteria to be classed as races because the riders aren't against teams, each other or the clock(though a handful do attack their own time which can be done by anyone, anywhere) and there aren't any specific prizes given for top 3 recorded times, rather, everyone gets a prize just for taking part, also, finishing times aren't announced on the day, they are taken away and then uploaded on the internet at a later date, besides, what about all the big, mechanically propelled tin boxes that treat the forest like it's Silverstone, going along at almost double the speed limit and killing anything in it's path?[/p][/quote]doesn't farmers drive their animals down some of these roads? now I've got nothing against Horse Riders been out with a few in the past but aren't they a problem for cars? So why not ban the both of them? Ginger I agree with you totally![/p][/quote]Farmers do indeed have to drive animals down the roads at times, the pony drifts probably also follow the roads at times or even cross them, surely farmers in their tractors must also be a problem for car drivers? What about other slow moving vehicles that have to use the road? Why doesn't geoff go on about banning them as well?[/p][/quote]Farmers and animals are part of the forest, 1000 cycles are not.[/p][/quote]dear troll when the forest was first created there were no motor powered vehicles. In fact history tells us that cycles were invented before motor powered vehicles. So please do not used history for your bigoted egotistical views. (I haven't been able to take you seriously since you stated that your aim in life was to wind up cyclists). I noticed that you failed to pick on my earlier post, which hints that you may not have the indepth knowledge that you think you have. Shown very clearly when you stated that Marchwood was not part of the New Forest, which showed that you do not know Marchwoods boundries (hint the Bold Forestor is in Marchwood, just check the sign as you go through the New Forest). If you (and everyone else) carry on as you are, you will loose the New Forest. It will be run by an outside administraion group, put in place by the government to create as much revenue as possible. They already tried selling it as soon as it stopped being Crown Land and became a national park. Finally if an attempt is put in place to ban cycling on the Queens Highway (which will require a new law), wait and see how many people turn up to object, the administration ran scared from the dog walkers, just wait and see what happens when you do get thousands of cyclists objecting.[/p][/quote]God you are so boring try getting a life outside cycling! geoff51

10:42pm Tue 17 Dec 13

geoff51 says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent.
Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite;
1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them.
2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles.
3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives.
4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou".
5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong.
6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong.
7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights.
8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on.
9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on.
And...
10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light.
So yeah, try again hypocrite.

(Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)
YOu are even more boring than Drystick!
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent. Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite; 1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them. 2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles. 3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives. 4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou". 5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong. 6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong. 7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights. 8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on. 9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on. And... 10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light. So yeah, try again hypocrite. (Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)[/p][/quote]YOu are even more boring than Drystick! geoff51

10:44pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent.
Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite;
1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them.
2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles.
3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives.
4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou".
5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong.
6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong.
7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights.
8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on.
9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on.
And...
10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light.
So yeah, try again hypocrite.

(Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)
YOu are even more boring than Drystick!
No, you just don't like getting caught out being a hypocrite.
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent. Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite; 1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them. 2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles. 3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives. 4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou". 5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong. 6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong. 7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights. 8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on. 9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on. And... 10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light. So yeah, try again hypocrite. (Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)[/p][/quote]YOu are even more boring than Drystick![/p][/quote]No, you just don't like getting caught out being a hypocrite. Ginger_cyclist

5:52pm Wed 18 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

geoff51 wrote:
DanWeston wrote:
What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality.

The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument.

However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day.

Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles.

However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.
Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy.
With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads.
Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'
Mine is not the narrow mind, I consider all vehicles whereas you only seem to want to discuss cyclists



Simple question.....

We have a thousand vehicles traveling in a spread out group - can the New Forest roads cope (or not)?
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DanWeston[/bold] wrote: What I Iove about Geoff51 is his ignorance of reality. The cyclists don't start in groups of 1,000 as he claims they start off in small groups. There will never be a 1000 in one place, but admitting this would spoil his argument. However as I hoped we now have the absurd claim that the 12,000 motorists are equally spaced throughout the day. Anyone who has been through this area knows the reality that there are peaks where the number of vehicles will exceed a thousand vehicles. However, at least next time you drive smoothly through that paragon of free flowing traffic that is Lyndhurst and the A337, think of how wrong you are, Geoff51 has informed us that the long queues of traffic are a figment of your imagination.[/p][/quote]Actually if you knew the forest as well as I do you would know that there is no need to join the queue on the 337 when you can use the A35 through Ashurst which even at peak times is less busy. With regard to the Cyclists whether they start in small groups or all at once 1000 cyclists is too many at one time to RACE through the narrow forest roads. Ignorance of reality is better than you ignorance in refusing to accept that others have a different view to your cycling narrow mantra 'we are always right'[/p][/quote]Mine is not the narrow mind, I consider all vehicles whereas you only seem to want to discuss cyclists Simple question..... We have a thousand vehicles traveling in a spread out group - can the New Forest roads cope (or not)? DanWeston

5:55pm Wed 18 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
Methinks that this rather illustrates Geoff 51's grip on reality
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]Methinks that this rather illustrates Geoff 51's grip on reality DanWeston

9:11pm Wed 18 Dec 13

loosehead says...

geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent.
Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite;
1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them.
2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles.
3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives.
4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou".
5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong.
6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong.
7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights.
8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on.
9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on.
And...
10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light.
So yeah, try again hypocrite.

(Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)
YOu are even more boring than Drystick!
I lost a work colleague who had ridden right around this country of ours in the name of charity which he did so safely.
he then rode down Romsey Rd in Shirley was hit by a bus that was too impatient & I lost that work colleague.
I don't agree with going over Red lights but have seen many cars do it as well as cycles.
I hate them riding on the pavements but after what happened to my work colleague I can see why they do it.
But I can also remember when most working men either walked or rode cycles into work & God weren't the roads safer then
[quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent. Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite; 1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them. 2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles. 3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives. 4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou". 5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong. 6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong. 7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights. 8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on. 9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on. And... 10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light. So yeah, try again hypocrite. (Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)[/p][/quote]YOu are even more boring than Drystick![/p][/quote]I lost a work colleague who had ridden right around this country of ours in the name of charity which he did so safely. he then rode down Romsey Rd in Shirley was hit by a bus that was too impatient & I lost that work colleague. I don't agree with going over Red lights but have seen many cars do it as well as cycles. I hate them riding on the pavements but after what happened to my work colleague I can see why they do it. But I can also remember when most working men either walked or rode cycles into work & God weren't the roads safer then loosehead

10:59pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
geoff51 wrote:
Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic!
Reasons for a closed cyclists mind
1 All cars are dangerous
2 cyclists are saving the world
3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage
4 cyclists are holier than thou
5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right
6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion
7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights
8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed
9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them
10 Sportives are not races
No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent.
Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite;
1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them.
2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles.
3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives.
4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou".
5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong.
6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong.
7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights.
8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on.
9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on.
And...
10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light.
So yeah, try again hypocrite.

(Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)
YOu are even more boring than Drystick!
I lost a work colleague who had ridden right around this country of ours in the name of charity which he did so safely.
he then rode down Romsey Rd in Shirley was hit by a bus that was too impatient & I lost that work colleague.
I don't agree with going over Red lights but have seen many cars do it as well as cycles.
I hate them riding on the pavements but after what happened to my work colleague I can see why they do it.
But I can also remember when most working men either walked or rode cycles into work & God weren't the roads safer then
Tell me about it, I was almost taken out by an impatient woman in Bitterne earlier who decided that 1.5 car lengths before a red light was a good place to overtake and came WELL within an inch of hitting me while forcing me to swerve left, the cow then started blaming another driver for her shocking driving, the other driver, so she claimed, had ignored this woman's indicator and forced her to get so close, truth of the matter is, she didn't go for the overtake until AFTER the other driver had passed her, she also ignored my request that she pull over for a chat in the Police station.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]geoff51[/bold] wrote: Sportives are not races, you will be telling me next that the Popes not a catholic! Reasons for a closed cyclists mind 1 All cars are dangerous 2 cyclists are saving the world 3 Cyclists contribute to the road usage 4 cyclists are holier than thou 5 All motorists are wrong even if they are right 6 Cyclists can use mobiles whilst in motion 7 cyclists are not bound to stop at red lights 8 pavements are allowed to be used for cycling at speed 9 cycle paths are only used if it suits them 10 Sportives are not races[/p][/quote]No, the pope probably is catholic but the pope is no longer of European descent. Reasons you're being a massive, moronic, hypocrite; 1) Cyclists don't think that cars are the real danger, just the morons(like yourself) who are allowed to operate them. 2) Many motorists are ALSO saving the world by buying hybrids and electric vehicles. 3) EVERYONE contributes to road usage at some point in their lives. 4) Many motorists(again like yourself) think they're "holier than thou". 5) Motorists can quite often think they're right even if they're wrong. 6)Many motorists also think they can use mobiles while driving, even when not in motion which is wrong. 7)*Now this is my favourite one right now as I'm in the process of editing footage to prove it* Some motorists don't seem to be bound to stop at red lights. 8) Pavements are apparently allowed to be used for parking or even for driving on. 9)Cycle paths are also apparently allowed to be used for parking or driving on. And... 10)Motorists apparently don't race each other to the next red light. So yeah, try again hypocrite. (Points 4 through to 9 can be proven with video evidence.)[/p][/quote]YOu are even more boring than Drystick![/p][/quote]I lost a work colleague who had ridden right around this country of ours in the name of charity which he did so safely. he then rode down Romsey Rd in Shirley was hit by a bus that was too impatient & I lost that work colleague. I don't agree with going over Red lights but have seen many cars do it as well as cycles. I hate them riding on the pavements but after what happened to my work colleague I can see why they do it. But I can also remember when most working men either walked or rode cycles into work & God weren't the roads safer then[/p][/quote]Tell me about it, I was almost taken out by an impatient woman in Bitterne earlier who decided that 1.5 car lengths before a red light was a good place to overtake and came WELL within an inch of hitting me while forcing me to swerve left, the cow then started blaming another driver for her shocking driving, the other driver, so she claimed, had ignored this woman's indicator and forced her to get so close, truth of the matter is, she didn't go for the overtake until AFTER the other driver had passed her, she also ignored my request that she pull over for a chat in the Police station. Ginger_cyclist

5:57am Thu 19 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

Anyway, lets move on to organised events....

In July this year we will see a three day event that will bring over 100, 000 people into a single area of the New Forest - the New Forest Show.

That leads to some 6000 vehicles per hour at the peak times on the roads around the site

Having "established" that 1000 vehicles is overloading the road system, why are we allowing this event to disrupt the Forest?
This paper carries stories of the problems every year and there are massive amounts of time and effort put into media warning about the longques that actually DO bring the area to a standstill

Can we look forward to a Police investigation into the chaos that the New Forest Show causes every year
Anyway, lets move on to organised events.... In July this year we will see a three day event that will bring over 100, 000 people into a single area of the New Forest - the New Forest Show. That leads to some 6000 vehicles per hour at the peak times on the roads around the site Having "established" that 1000 vehicles is overloading the road system, why are we allowing this event to disrupt the Forest? This paper carries stories of the problems every year and there are massive amounts of time and effort put into media warning about the longques that actually DO bring the area to a standstill Can we look forward to a Police investigation into the chaos that the New Forest Show causes every year DanWeston

6:00am Thu 19 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

Or to paraphrase the original article and Mureen Holding's sage words of wisdom....


.... “I’m not anti-New Forest Show, but these big, money-making events are getting out of control. The problem has not been managed, it’s simply being looked at in retrospect.”
Or to paraphrase the original article and Mureen Holding's sage words of wisdom.... .... “I’m not anti-New Forest Show, but these big, money-making events are getting out of control. The problem has not been managed, it’s simply being looked at in retrospect.” DanWeston

6:26am Thu 19 Dec 13

country bird says...

I've commented before on the VOLUME of cyclists when these events are on, and in my opinion it's too many and could be better organised and managed etc.

However, I've witnessed so many idiots driving wreckless and fast through the forest, and know that this is a serious problem that needs tackling urgently.
SILVER TOYOTA AVENSIS ESTATE - REG HJ61 HFA - has driven past me at 61 mph in a 30 zone whilst animals walking by.
And overtaken me whilst doing 40 in 40 zone and e was doing a
Over 50! Just in case your reading this article, sent your details to speed watch and totton police station.

RANT OVER
I've commented before on the VOLUME of cyclists when these events are on, and in my opinion it's too many and could be better organised and managed etc. However, I've witnessed so many idiots driving wreckless and fast through the forest, and know that this is a serious problem that needs tackling urgently. SILVER TOYOTA AVENSIS ESTATE - REG HJ61 HFA - has driven past me at 61 mph in a 30 zone whilst animals walking by. And overtaken me whilst doing 40 in 40 zone and e was doing a Over 50! Just in case your reading this article, sent your details to speed watch and totton police station. RANT OVER country bird

1:36pm Thu 19 Dec 13

loosehead says...

if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars.
no pedestrians killed by cyclists.
I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now.
But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events!
if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars. no pedestrians killed by cyclists. I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now. But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events! loosehead

2:04pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars.
no pedestrians killed by cyclists.
I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now.
But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events!
It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars. no pedestrians killed by cyclists. I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now. But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events![/p][/quote]It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now. Ginger_cyclist

6:10pm Thu 19 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars.
no pedestrians killed by cyclists.
I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now.
But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events!
It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now.
Ginger I use to ride from Lordshill to the bottom of Regents Park road, going down towards Shirley I had to take the main road ( I admit looking at it I could have gone another route)
At the top of the hill I turned right & went through the back roads coming out not to far from BAT.
on the way back at Romsey road Maybush corner if I was slowing up the traffic to much I pulled over on to the pavement & waited once the traffic went past I rejoined the road & would do this all the way up that road but still I had full cans of beer thrown at me.
I just feel for cyclists safety they should look at the back roads do you agree or disagree?
[quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars. no pedestrians killed by cyclists. I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now. But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events![/p][/quote]It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now.[/p][/quote]Ginger I use to ride from Lordshill to the bottom of Regents Park road, going down towards Shirley I had to take the main road ( I admit looking at it I could have gone another route) At the top of the hill I turned right & went through the back roads coming out not to far from BAT. on the way back at Romsey road Maybush corner if I was slowing up the traffic to much I pulled over on to the pavement & waited once the traffic went past I rejoined the road & would do this all the way up that road but still I had full cans of beer thrown at me. I just feel for cyclists safety they should look at the back roads do you agree or disagree? loosehead

6:24pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

loosehead wrote:
Ginger_cyclist wrote:
loosehead wrote:
if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars.
no pedestrians killed by cyclists.
I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now.
But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events!
It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now.
Ginger I use to ride from Lordshill to the bottom of Regents Park road, going down towards Shirley I had to take the main road ( I admit looking at it I could have gone another route)
At the top of the hill I turned right & went through the back roads coming out not to far from BAT.
on the way back at Romsey road Maybush corner if I was slowing up the traffic to much I pulled over on to the pavement & waited once the traffic went past I rejoined the road & would do this all the way up that road but still I had full cans of beer thrown at me.
I just feel for cyclists safety they should look at the back roads do you agree or disagree?
In my experience and in this day and age, I would have to disagree, I tend to find the worst drivers will often take the back roads in an effort to avoid capture, thankfully the worst drivers are a very tiny minority and if I'm honest, the only reason you get more bad driving on main roads is due to the sheer volume of traffic, though that's not much of a problem in Southampton any more since rush hour traffic is pretty much stop/start for a couple of miles into and out of the city, what we should have(like 99% of other EU countries) is strict liability laws, then if a car hits a cyclist, the driver is held responsible UNLESS they can prove the cyclist was at fault, same goes if the hit a pedestrian an if larger vehicle hits a smaller one, the larger vehicle is held liable unless they can prove the other vehicle was at fault or if a cyclist hits a pedestrian, the cyclist is held liable unless the cyclist can prove the pedestrian was at fault, that would improve behaviour on the road.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ginger_cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars. no pedestrians killed by cyclists. I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now. But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events![/p][/quote]It's called bikeability now and it's actually part of the school curriculum now.[/p][/quote]Ginger I use to ride from Lordshill to the bottom of Regents Park road, going down towards Shirley I had to take the main road ( I admit looking at it I could have gone another route) At the top of the hill I turned right & went through the back roads coming out not to far from BAT. on the way back at Romsey road Maybush corner if I was slowing up the traffic to much I pulled over on to the pavement & waited once the traffic went past I rejoined the road & would do this all the way up that road but still I had full cans of beer thrown at me. I just feel for cyclists safety they should look at the back roads do you agree or disagree?[/p][/quote]In my experience and in this day and age, I would have to disagree, I tend to find the worst drivers will often take the back roads in an effort to avoid capture, thankfully the worst drivers are a very tiny minority and if I'm honest, the only reason you get more bad driving on main roads is due to the sheer volume of traffic, though that's not much of a problem in Southampton any more since rush hour traffic is pretty much stop/start for a couple of miles into and out of the city, what we should have(like 99% of other EU countries) is strict liability laws, then if a car hits a cyclist, the driver is held responsible UNLESS they can prove the cyclist was at fault, same goes if the hit a pedestrian an if larger vehicle hits a smaller one, the larger vehicle is held liable unless they can prove the other vehicle was at fault or if a cyclist hits a pedestrian, the cyclist is held liable unless the cyclist can prove the pedestrian was at fault, that would improve behaviour on the road. Ginger_cyclist

9:46am Sat 21 Dec 13

DanWeston says...

loosehead wrote:
if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars.
no pedestrians killed by cyclists.
I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now.
But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events!
In the first 6 months of this year the number of animals killed was 67, compared with a previous recorded 40, a significant increase

To quote the Verderers' spokesperson:

"So far in July we have already received reports of a further 10 accidents in which four animals have been killed and two injured. All bar one occurred in daylight. This must indicate either a complete lack of awareness or consideration for the Forest’s animals on the part of motorists driving through the Forest.’

Yet all of these drivers have passed the motorists test....... so it is obviously an effective

It is a real red herring, almost as bad as the "Road Tax" claims

Most cyclists hold a driving license, and most of the Wiggle competitors drove to the forest!

Then of course the real question, we go out as a family...... are you expecting my 9 year old and 12 year old to pass the diving test

What about shoes?

Surely given the number of pedestrians killed each year people should only be allowed to operate shoes without passing the driving test or equivalent?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: if cyclists are so bad/dangerous how come in London the highest figure for deaths on the roads are those of cyclists being hit by lorries/busses & cars. no pedestrians killed by cyclists. I do believe before any one is allowed to ride a cycle on the roads they should have at least passed a motorbike test or taken what I once took a cycling proficiency test & become knights of the road I took this when I was 11 so I haven't got a clue what it's called now. But on todays roads for a child or some one who doesn't drive to be able to buy a cycle & ride it on the roads is crazy & I am all for cycling & these events![/p][/quote]In the first 6 months of this year the number of animals killed was 67, compared with a previous recorded 40, a significant increase To quote the Verderers' spokesperson: "So far in July we have already received reports of a further 10 accidents in which four animals have been killed and two injured. All bar one occurred in daylight. This must indicate either a complete lack of awareness or consideration for the Forest’s animals on the part of motorists driving through the Forest.’ Yet all of these drivers have passed the motorists test....... so it is obviously an effective It is a real red herring, almost as bad as the "Road Tax" claims Most cyclists hold a driving license, and most of the Wiggle competitors drove to the forest! Then of course the real question, we go out as a family...... are you expecting my 9 year old and 12 year old to pass the diving test What about shoes? Surely given the number of pedestrians killed each year people should only be allowed to operate shoes without passing the driving test or equivalent? DanWeston

5:49pm Sat 21 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law).

This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint?

Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da
ngerous riding.
According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law). This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect. Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint? Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da ngerous riding. Reconciler

6:05pm Sat 21 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law).

This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint?

Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da

ngerous riding.
Can you supply any proof of these claims?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law). This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect. Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint? Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da ngerous riding.[/p][/quote]Can you supply any proof of these claims? Ginger_cyclist

6:06pm Sat 21 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law).

This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint?

Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da

ngerous riding.
really for animals? So no cars or Lorries mentioned? & aren't both of these forms of transport life threatening for those very animals?
exactly how many Deer & Horses have died after being hit by one of those vehicles?
so we make those roads for horses only?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: According to Wiggle's website the numbers riding each day were not far short of 3,000 (2,800 paid, + under 16s). The New Forest National Park was created: (1) "to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the Park" and (2)"to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the Park's special qualities by the public." If the two should clash the first always takes pre-eminence (by Law). This beautiful area has been created and maintained over very many centuries by free-ranging animals which are cared for by commoners, who make little or no profit from their work and do it for love. They need to follow routines which cannot be altered to allow huge commercial profit-making events to take over. How, for instance, do you get half a dozen ponies being trained for cart-driving down a lane occupied for hours at a time by racing cyclists up to six abreast, who curse you for daring to ask them to make way and scare the ponies off? The dates and locations of drifts have to vary according to where the ponies have congregated, weather, state of the ground, etc. Big new commercial events get in a year ahead and expect the life of the Park to work round them: is that really cooperative and reasonable? Few Sportive riders appear to be concentrating on "understanding and enjoying the Park's special qualities". On the contrary, they just want to get through it as fast as possible concentrating on the bit of tarmac before their wheel. People trying to go about their necessary duties are often described as NIMBY or snooty in cycling chat sites. Perhaps such cyclists could attempt to learn about the area before they arrive and treat it and its carers with respect. Yes, there is plenty of evidence of defecation in public. How can it be "no big deal" for Godshill litter warden clearing up the next day to find what was stuck to the tissue paper she was removing? Several piles of it! And witnesses in Hyde saw what was happening but were unable to report the riders because the identification numbers are not visible. If Wiggle had put large numbers on riders' backs, as requested many times, the culprits could have been dealt with. This area is used by the school children. "No big deal"? Have a heart! What else can Parish Councils do but lodge a complaint? Look at the official sportive photos for plenty of evidence of bad/inconsiderate/da ngerous riding.[/p][/quote]really for animals? So no cars or Lorries mentioned? & aren't both of these forms of transport life threatening for those very animals? exactly how many Deer & Horses have died after being hit by one of those vehicles? so we make those roads for horses only? loosehead

1:06pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

So there are bad drivers who endanger animals. So what? Everyone is aware of that and, believe me, parish councils are not silent on the subject. But how does that make the behaviour of cyclists in mass events' acceptable? No one is saying that any form of transport should be excluded. At the moment the deleterious effects of mass cycling events are under discussion. Considerate riders in reasonable numbers are welcomed but nearly 6,000 riders in one week-end disrupt the work of the Forest far more than traffic jams round the New Forest Show, because over a hundred miles of little working lanes are blocked for hours on end. Godshill and Hyde have both tried to show good will by allowing use of their village halls - but look how they have been rewarded! Too many of the cycling fraternity refuse to believe that a cyclist could ever be in the wrong and try to avoid responsibility for their own actions by diverting the discussion on to motorists, Loosehead appears to be using that tactic.
So there are bad drivers who endanger animals. So what? Everyone is aware of that and, believe me, parish councils are not silent on the subject. But how does that make the behaviour of cyclists in mass events' acceptable? No one is saying that any form of transport should be excluded. At the moment the deleterious effects of mass cycling events are under discussion. Considerate riders in reasonable numbers are welcomed but nearly 6,000 riders in one week-end disrupt the work of the Forest far more than traffic jams round the New Forest Show, because over a hundred miles of little working lanes are blocked for hours on end. Godshill and Hyde have both tried to show good will by allowing use of their village halls - but look how they have been rewarded! Too many of the cycling fraternity refuse to believe that a cyclist could ever be in the wrong and try to avoid responsibility for their own actions by diverting the discussion on to motorists, Loosehead appears to be using that tactic. Reconciler

1:16pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
So there are bad drivers who endanger animals. So what? Everyone is aware of that and, believe me, parish councils are not silent on the subject. But how does that make the behaviour of cyclists in mass events' acceptable? No one is saying that any form of transport should be excluded. At the moment the deleterious effects of mass cycling events are under discussion. Considerate riders in reasonable numbers are welcomed but nearly 6,000 riders in one week-end disrupt the work of the Forest far more than traffic jams round the New Forest Show, because over a hundred miles of little working lanes are blocked for hours on end. Godshill and Hyde have both tried to show good will by allowing use of their village halls - but look how they have been rewarded! Too many of the cycling fraternity refuse to believe that a cyclist could ever be in the wrong and try to avoid responsibility for their own actions by diverting the discussion on to motorists, Loosehead appears to be using that tactic.
6000 in a weekend, NOT at one time, only 1000 or so on the road at one time but in small groups all spread out to reduce any disruption, to much less than what would be caused by traffic jams caused by things like the new forest show, which correct me if I'm mistaken, is also a big money COMMERCIAL event, it's also, still highly doubtful that cyclists were the ones who took a dump on the village green, you'd have to have something seriously wrong with you to do that or you'd have to be a cycle hating local who will do anything to get cyclists banned.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: So there are bad drivers who endanger animals. So what? Everyone is aware of that and, believe me, parish councils are not silent on the subject. But how does that make the behaviour of cyclists in mass events' acceptable? No one is saying that any form of transport should be excluded. At the moment the deleterious effects of mass cycling events are under discussion. Considerate riders in reasonable numbers are welcomed but nearly 6,000 riders in one week-end disrupt the work of the Forest far more than traffic jams round the New Forest Show, because over a hundred miles of little working lanes are blocked for hours on end. Godshill and Hyde have both tried to show good will by allowing use of their village halls - but look how they have been rewarded! Too many of the cycling fraternity refuse to believe that a cyclist could ever be in the wrong and try to avoid responsibility for their own actions by diverting the discussion on to motorists, Loosehead appears to be using that tactic.[/p][/quote]6000 in a weekend, NOT at one time, only 1000 or so on the road at one time but in small groups all spread out to reduce any disruption, to much less than what would be caused by traffic jams caused by things like the new forest show, which correct me if I'm mistaken, is also a big money COMMERCIAL event, it's also, still highly doubtful that cyclists were the ones who took a dump on the village green, you'd have to have something seriously wrong with you to do that or you'd have to be a cycle hating local who will do anything to get cyclists banned. Ginger_cyclist

2:48pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be.
Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be. Reconciler

3:12pm Sun 22 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be.
so you say you have photographic evidence? So arrest the guilty party but stop blaming the majority for one or two idiots.
If we went on the basis of banning sports because of a few idiots who turn up to either play or support a team football would have been banned in the 70's.
I have no cycle but I can't believe you & your sort can come out with figures like 6,000 or as some Anti Cyclists have proclaimed they endanger local wild life really?
non polluting form of transport, good healthy exercise, no fighting & just people of all ages taking part & you & the Anti Cycling brigade want to stop it?
Maybe you could take up fox hunting on bikes?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be.[/p][/quote]so you say you have photographic evidence? So arrest the guilty party but stop blaming the majority for one or two idiots. If we went on the basis of banning sports because of a few idiots who turn up to either play or support a team football would have been banned in the 70's. I have no cycle but I can't believe you & your sort can come out with figures like 6,000 or as some Anti Cyclists have proclaimed they endanger local wild life really? non polluting form of transport, good healthy exercise, no fighting & just people of all ages taking part & you & the Anti Cycling brigade want to stop it? Maybe you could take up fox hunting on bikes? loosehead

3:13pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be.
Doesn't mean a local had nothing to do with it, quite easy to make yourself look like a cyclist without being one and a sportive is NOT a race, it's large, organised ride, as for the pinch points, if the cyclists were riding through as a group as the oncoming vehicle appeared, then that's not against the law and I wonder how many motorists failed to I've way to cyclists at those same pinch points even though cyclists had right of way. Also I see nothing intimidating.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Sorry, Ginger_cylist, I should have repied to yu at the same time as Loosehead. Yes, there are plenty of formal statements, plus photographic evidence. No, there has been no forensic examination of faeces, but surely you must agree that clearing up litter the day after a mass cycling event rather indicates the source of the remains? And some riders were actually witnessed in the act. Come and talk to the residents of Blissford Road to understand how they dare not emerge from theiir exits during a race. I myself stood and watched by one of the Godshill pinch-points and witnessed dozens of instances of dangerous riding en bloc, forcing oncoming traffic (with right of way )to stop and speeding through within an inch of a vehicle by the traffic island. Have a look at the sportive photo website, try the last photo of Rider 3315 to see how intimidating these riders can be.[/p][/quote]Doesn't mean a local had nothing to do with it, quite easy to make yourself look like a cyclist without being one and a sportive is NOT a race, it's large, organised ride, as for the pinch points, if the cyclists were riding through as a group as the oncoming vehicle appeared, then that's not against the law and I wonder how many motorists failed to I've way to cyclists at those same pinch points even though cyclists had right of way. Also I see nothing intimidating. Ginger_cyclist

3:34pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

I should have said No. 3315 in the 6th Oct event.

Small groups spread out? Divide 3,000 into 150 groups of 20 and send them out over a period of 2.5 hours, i.e. one group per minute. Wiggle videos show a good many more than 20 at a time departing and continuous lines rapidly form . Many riders like to be in groups to increase speed. Others prefer to ride separately. Steep narrow twisting hills with hedges do not give much line of sight. Safety implications are obvious, especially when the cyclists are on the wrong side of the road. Very few of us are cyclist-haters (I know of none), a good few of us ride, and we love to see riders enjoying the Forest and appreciating what is provided for them by hard-working residents. The village of Godshill insisted on provision of a space for cyclists to use in safety behind the pinch-point islands. However, we do find it difficult to live with such huge events with a large proportion of aggressive racers who demonstrate little or no wish to understand the special qualities of the Forest.
I should have said No. 3315 in the 6th Oct event. Small groups spread out? Divide 3,000 into 150 groups of 20 and send them out over a period of 2.5 hours, i.e. one group per minute. Wiggle videos show a good many more than 20 at a time departing and continuous lines rapidly form . Many riders like to be in groups to increase speed. Others prefer to ride separately. Steep narrow twisting hills with hedges do not give much line of sight. Safety implications are obvious, especially when the cyclists are on the wrong side of the road. Very few of us are cyclist-haters (I know of none), a good few of us ride, and we love to see riders enjoying the Forest and appreciating what is provided for them by hard-working residents. The village of Godshill insisted on provision of a space for cyclists to use in safety behind the pinch-point islands. However, we do find it difficult to live with such huge events with a large proportion of aggressive racers who demonstrate little or no wish to understand the special qualities of the Forest. Reconciler

3:56pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

They were not riding through as a vehicle appeared. There was a long line of slow moving vehicles held up by masses of oncoming bikes using the wrong side of the road. The drivers were giving way to cyclists who were not obeying the traffic signs on the pinch point. It was only very good driving that saved the skins of some riders darting in and out of the cycling traffic and into the oncoming vehicles further along the road.

A sportive is a large organised ride used by a great many of the participants as a race - even between teams. There is ample evidence of this on line in cycle chat sites. Most openly admit that they are racing.

If you are so bigoted that you really can persuade yourself that ordinary people would dress up as cyclists and defecate in public to get cyclists a bad name there really is no hope for you!
They were not riding through as a vehicle appeared. There was a long line of slow moving vehicles held up by masses of oncoming bikes using the wrong side of the road. The drivers were giving way to cyclists who were not obeying the traffic signs on the pinch point. It was only very good driving that saved the skins of some riders darting in and out of the cycling traffic and into the oncoming vehicles further along the road. A sportive is a large organised ride used by a great many of the participants as a race - even between teams. There is ample evidence of this on line in cycle chat sites. Most openly admit that they are racing. If you are so bigoted that you really can persuade yourself that ordinary people would dress up as cyclists and defecate in public to get cyclists a bad name there really is no hope for you! Reconciler

4:01pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
They were not riding through as a vehicle appeared. There was a long line of slow moving vehicles held up by masses of oncoming bikes using the wrong side of the road. The drivers were giving way to cyclists who were not obeying the traffic signs on the pinch point. It was only very good driving that saved the skins of some riders darting in and out of the cycling traffic and into the oncoming vehicles further along the road.

A sportive is a large organised ride used by a great many of the participants as a race - even between teams. There is ample evidence of this on line in cycle chat sites. Most openly admit that they are racing.

If you are so bigoted that you really can persuade yourself that ordinary people would dress up as cyclists and defecate in public to get cyclists a bad name there really is no hope for you!
Small minorities are what you're looking to blame, not majorities.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: They were not riding through as a vehicle appeared. There was a long line of slow moving vehicles held up by masses of oncoming bikes using the wrong side of the road. The drivers were giving way to cyclists who were not obeying the traffic signs on the pinch point. It was only very good driving that saved the skins of some riders darting in and out of the cycling traffic and into the oncoming vehicles further along the road. A sportive is a large organised ride used by a great many of the participants as a race - even between teams. There is ample evidence of this on line in cycle chat sites. Most openly admit that they are racing. If you are so bigoted that you really can persuade yourself that ordinary people would dress up as cyclists and defecate in public to get cyclists a bad name there really is no hope for you![/p][/quote]Small minorities are what you're looking to blame, not majorities. Ginger_cyclist

4:29pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

It is Wiggle who produce the figures, Loosehead.. They advertised 2,800 places sold out for each day, plus juniors riding free. Add in the free-loaders and you are not far short of 6,000 for the week end. How do you calculate only 1,000 on the road at any one time? Come off it!

The police are investigating the evidence. Wiggle protects bad riders by insisting on scarcely visible numbers on handlebars and refusing our requests for large numbers on riders' backs, so it is difficult for victims to identify culprits.

Please stop blaming "the few idiots". There are a very great deal more than a few aggressive dangerous riders. And even cycling blogs are now grumbling about overcrowding spoiling their ride. Some say they are dropping out because of it. The narrow lanes just cannot safely cope with so many.

Ginger_Cyclist must be very brave! Witnesses have certainly been intimidated by coming face to face with a large clump of riders doing about 30mph right across the road and having to swerve on to the verge!

The road events do not directly endanger wildlife (except perhaps in the above instances on verges) but do disturb the livestock which maintains the area for all life - human and wild -, and hinder the care of this livestock. "Damaging wildlife" usually refers to the cross-country MTB events, especially in bird-nesting season.

Just because an animal runs away after being struck by a bike - which does happen - does not mean that it is not injured. One cyclists was concussed by his collision. Who knows what internal injuries were suffered by the pony, which fled? Another rider broke both arms- and the cow he rode head-down into certainly suffered. And don't use the old argument that cars kill many more animals - we all know that and the drivers are almost always prosecuted. Two wrongs don't make a right.
It is Wiggle who produce the figures, Loosehead.. They advertised 2,800 places sold out for each day, plus juniors riding free. Add in the free-loaders and you are not far short of 6,000 for the week end. How do you calculate only 1,000 on the road at any one time? Come off it! The police are investigating the evidence. Wiggle protects bad riders by insisting on scarcely visible numbers on handlebars and refusing our requests for large numbers on riders' backs, so it is difficult for victims to identify culprits. Please stop blaming "the few idiots". There are a very great deal more than a few aggressive dangerous riders. And even cycling blogs are now grumbling about overcrowding spoiling their ride. Some say they are dropping out because of it. The narrow lanes just cannot safely cope with so many. Ginger_Cyclist must be very brave! Witnesses have certainly been intimidated by coming face to face with a large clump of riders doing about 30mph right across the road and having to swerve on to the verge! The road events do not directly endanger wildlife (except perhaps in the above instances on verges) but do disturb the livestock which maintains the area for all life - human and wild -, and hinder the care of this livestock. "Damaging wildlife" usually refers to the cross-country MTB events, especially in bird-nesting season. Just because an animal runs away after being struck by a bike - which does happen - does not mean that it is not injured. One cyclists was concussed by his collision. Who knows what internal injuries were suffered by the pony, which fled? Another rider broke both arms- and the cow he rode head-down into certainly suffered. And don't use the old argument that cars kill many more animals - we all know that and the drivers are almost always prosecuted. Two wrongs don't make a right. Reconciler

4:36pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
It is Wiggle who produce the figures, Loosehead.. They advertised 2,800 places sold out for each day, plus juniors riding free. Add in the free-loaders and you are not far short of 6,000 for the week end. How do you calculate only 1,000 on the road at any one time? Come off it!

The police are investigating the evidence. Wiggle protects bad riders by insisting on scarcely visible numbers on handlebars and refusing our requests for large numbers on riders' backs, so it is difficult for victims to identify culprits.

Please stop blaming "the few idiots". There are a very great deal more than a few aggressive dangerous riders. And even cycling blogs are now grumbling about overcrowding spoiling their ride. Some say they are dropping out because of it. The narrow lanes just cannot safely cope with so many.

Ginger_Cyclist must be very brave! Witnesses have certainly been intimidated by coming face to face with a large clump of riders doing about 30mph right across the road and having to swerve on to the verge!

The road events do not directly endanger wildlife (except perhaps in the above instances on verges) but do disturb the livestock which maintains the area for all life - human and wild -, and hinder the care of this livestock. "Damaging wildlife" usually refers to the cross-country MTB events, especially in bird-nesting season.

Just because an animal runs away after being struck by a bike - which does happen - does not mean that it is not injured. One cyclists was concussed by his collision. Who knows what internal injuries were suffered by the pony, which fled? Another rider broke both arms- and the cow he rode head-down into certainly suffered. And don't use the old argument that cars kill many more animals - we all know that and the drivers are almost always prosecuted. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Most cyclists in the wiggle events certainly can't attain or maintain 30mph, maybe someone of my level but even I can't maintain that sort of speed for very long, only top level riders would be able to, also, as far as I've ever seen, most drivers who kill a new forest animal, do a runner and get away with it.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: It is Wiggle who produce the figures, Loosehead.. They advertised 2,800 places sold out for each day, plus juniors riding free. Add in the free-loaders and you are not far short of 6,000 for the week end. How do you calculate only 1,000 on the road at any one time? Come off it! The police are investigating the evidence. Wiggle protects bad riders by insisting on scarcely visible numbers on handlebars and refusing our requests for large numbers on riders' backs, so it is difficult for victims to identify culprits. Please stop blaming "the few idiots". There are a very great deal more than a few aggressive dangerous riders. And even cycling blogs are now grumbling about overcrowding spoiling their ride. Some say they are dropping out because of it. The narrow lanes just cannot safely cope with so many. Ginger_Cyclist must be very brave! Witnesses have certainly been intimidated by coming face to face with a large clump of riders doing about 30mph right across the road and having to swerve on to the verge! The road events do not directly endanger wildlife (except perhaps in the above instances on verges) but do disturb the livestock which maintains the area for all life - human and wild -, and hinder the care of this livestock. "Damaging wildlife" usually refers to the cross-country MTB events, especially in bird-nesting season. Just because an animal runs away after being struck by a bike - which does happen - does not mean that it is not injured. One cyclists was concussed by his collision. Who knows what internal injuries were suffered by the pony, which fled? Another rider broke both arms- and the cow he rode head-down into certainly suffered. And don't use the old argument that cars kill many more animals - we all know that and the drivers are almost always prosecuted. Two wrongs don't make a right.[/p][/quote]Most cyclists in the wiggle events certainly can't attain or maintain 30mph, maybe someone of my level but even I can't maintain that sort of speed for very long, only top level riders would be able to, also, as far as I've ever seen, most drivers who kill a new forest animal, do a runner and get away with it. Ginger_cyclist

5:22pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Did Ginger_cyclist look at the last picture of 3315 on the second page?
Did Ginger_cyclist look at the last picture of 3315 on the second page? Reconciler

5:46pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Did Ginger_cyclist look at the last picture of 3315 on the second page?
Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Did Ginger_cyclist look at the last picture of 3315 on the second page?[/p][/quote]Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves. Ginger_cyclist

8:50pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

If you found that picture, numbers have been investigated and at least several of them are indeed top level riders. . Other riders tag along behind them for the wind-assistance. It's true that most participants can't keep up high speeds for very long, but the semi-professionals use the event to train and certainly get up to high speeds. Some brag on line about reaching 50mph, and I found one grumble about being held up by slow riders on a long downhill stretch (not New Forest) doing "only 30-40mph". Usually the bigger the bunch the higher the speed in our observation. However, such bunches right across the road are pretty intimidating, even at only 20mph, and a good few average over 20mph, over the whole route, according to the results.

Not many hit and run drivers get away with it. The Police are pretty diligent about chasing them up - thank goodness, and local garages usually know about tell-tale car damage. Do you have inside information to contradict this? How can you tell? Is it by just looking at dead animals marked "Police aware" and deliberately left for a few days as a warning?
If you found that picture, numbers have been investigated and at least several of them are indeed top level riders. . Other riders tag along behind them for the wind-assistance. It's true that most participants can't keep up high speeds for very long, but the semi-professionals use the event to train and certainly get up to high speeds. Some brag on line about reaching 50mph, and I found one grumble about being held up by slow riders on a long downhill stretch (not New Forest) doing "only 30-40mph". Usually the bigger the bunch the higher the speed in our observation. However, such bunches right across the road are pretty intimidating, even at only 20mph, and a good few average over 20mph, over the whole route, according to the results. Not many hit and run drivers get away with it. The Police are pretty diligent about chasing them up - thank goodness, and local garages usually know about tell-tale car damage. Do you have inside information to contradict this? How can you tell? Is it by just looking at dead animals marked "Police aware" and deliberately left for a few days as a warning? Reconciler

9:13pm Sun 22 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
If you found that picture, numbers have been investigated and at least several of them are indeed top level riders. . Other riders tag along behind them for the wind-assistance. It's true that most participants can't keep up high speeds for very long, but the semi-professionals use the event to train and certainly get up to high speeds. Some brag on line about reaching 50mph, and I found one grumble about being held up by slow riders on a long downhill stretch (not New Forest) doing "only 30-40mph". Usually the bigger the bunch the higher the speed in our observation. However, such bunches right across the road are pretty intimidating, even at only 20mph, and a good few average over 20mph, over the whole route, according to the results.

Not many hit and run drivers get away with it. The Police are pretty diligent about chasing them up - thank goodness, and local garages usually know about tell-tale car damage. Do you have inside information to contradict this? How can you tell? Is it by just looking at dead animals marked "Police aware" and deliberately left for a few days as a warning?
so let's get this straight your moaning about 6,000 cyclists over a week?
or more than one day?
what about the cars over the same period in the tourist season?
If indeed cyclists have done what you say that's not really the organisers fault unless it's proven not enough toilet facilities were provided is it?
Honestly being ex RCT Ta I've driven lorries through the forest & the two big pain in the neck the reason tail backs occurred were Horse riders & Tractors but that's life & I wouldn't want to ruin harmless pursuits at pleasure like horse riding.
You say your title is reconciler what reconciling are you trying to achieve?
Anyone who wants to see these events would be more than happy to see anyone being seen defecating out in the open & not in a latrine provided for get hammered by the law but come on I saw car loads stop & allow little tommy to dump behind a tree or car loads of lads stop to relieve themselves along side the road so let's get real here & stop moaning about an event that brings trade to local shops hotels,pubs & jobs to the area or are all New Forest residents in full employment?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: If you found that picture, numbers have been investigated and at least several of them are indeed top level riders. . Other riders tag along behind them for the wind-assistance. It's true that most participants can't keep up high speeds for very long, but the semi-professionals use the event to train and certainly get up to high speeds. Some brag on line about reaching 50mph, and I found one grumble about being held up by slow riders on a long downhill stretch (not New Forest) doing "only 30-40mph". Usually the bigger the bunch the higher the speed in our observation. However, such bunches right across the road are pretty intimidating, even at only 20mph, and a good few average over 20mph, over the whole route, according to the results. Not many hit and run drivers get away with it. The Police are pretty diligent about chasing them up - thank goodness, and local garages usually know about tell-tale car damage. Do you have inside information to contradict this? How can you tell? Is it by just looking at dead animals marked "Police aware" and deliberately left for a few days as a warning?[/p][/quote]so let's get this straight your moaning about 6,000 cyclists over a week? or more than one day? what about the cars over the same period in the tourist season? If indeed cyclists have done what you say that's not really the organisers fault unless it's proven not enough toilet facilities were provided is it? Honestly being ex RCT Ta I've driven lorries through the forest & the two big pain in the neck the reason tail backs occurred were Horse riders & Tractors but that's life & I wouldn't want to ruin harmless pursuits at pleasure like horse riding. You say your title is reconciler what reconciling are you trying to achieve? Anyone who wants to see these events would be more than happy to see anyone being seen defecating out in the open & not in a latrine provided for get hammered by the law but come on I saw car loads stop & allow little tommy to dump behind a tree or car loads of lads stop to relieve themselves along side the road so let's get real here & stop moaning about an event that brings trade to local shops hotels,pubs & jobs to the area or are all New Forest residents in full employment? loosehead

10:32pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Quote: "Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves."

This needs completion: ".. with complete disregard for other people, not to mention the Highway Code"!
Quote: "Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves." This needs completion: ".. with complete disregard for other people, not to mention the Highway Code"! Reconciler

10:41pm Sun 22 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Quote: "Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves."

This needs completion: ".. with complete disregard for other people, not to mention the Highway Code"!
You know, there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast, as for your comment about cyclists bragging about their speeds, you'd do the same if you caught a really big fish, would you not? Also, cyclists legally don't have to follow the speed limit.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Quote: "Know what I see? People of all ages enjoying themselves." This needs completion: ".. with complete disregard for other people, not to mention the Highway Code"![/p][/quote]You know, there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast, as for your comment about cyclists bragging about their speeds, you'd do the same if you caught a really big fish, would you not? Also, cyclists legally don't have to follow the speed limit. Ginger_cyclist

9:54am Mon 23 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Once again it is repeated that there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast. However all these riders signed up to the Wiggle code. As they signed they ineffect made a promise to keep it. The organisers are against this aggressive style of riding.

Assuming you are a car-driver, what would you do if you met this fast-moving mass?
Once again it is repeated that there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast. However all these riders signed up to the Wiggle code. As they signed they ineffect made a promise to keep it. The organisers are against this aggressive style of riding. Assuming you are a car-driver, what would you do if you met this fast-moving mass? Reconciler

11:25am Mon 23 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all.

First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with.

The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way.

6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen.

Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31!

Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry.

Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road.

Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures.

I hope this helps.
Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all. First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with. The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way. 6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen. Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31! Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry. Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road. Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures. I hope this helps. Reconciler

2:54pm Mon 23 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Once again it is repeated that there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast. However all these riders signed up to the Wiggle code. As they signed they ineffect made a promise to keep it. The organisers are against this aggressive style of riding.

Assuming you are a car-driver, what would you do if you met this fast-moving mass?
I would slow down or stop, let them pass and probably hold out a hand for high fives... If I wasn't in the ride as well.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Once again it is repeated that there is no law against riding more than 2 abreast. However all these riders signed up to the Wiggle code. As they signed they ineffect made a promise to keep it. The organisers are against this aggressive style of riding. Assuming you are a car-driver, what would you do if you met this fast-moving mass?[/p][/quote]I would slow down or stop, let them pass and probably hold out a hand for high fives... If I wasn't in the ride as well. Ginger_cyclist

2:58pm Mon 23 Dec 13

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all.

First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with.

The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way.

6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen.

Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31!

Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry.

Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road.

Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures.

I hope this helps.
"(keeping left at all times, for instance)" No, that's how a lot of cyclists get killed, also, they can legally use a full lane(or road if it's narrow and unmarked.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all. First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with. The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way. 6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen. Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31! Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry. Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road. Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures. I hope this helps.[/p][/quote]"(keeping left at all times, for instance)" No, that's how a lot of cyclists get killed, also, they can legally use a full lane(or road if it's narrow and unmarked. Ginger_cyclist

9:08pm Mon 23 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all.

First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with.

The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way.

6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen.

Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31!

Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry.

Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road.

Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures.

I hope this helps.
No as if I recollect the "Forest" as such was a Kings hunting ground not for farmers private use!
So your saying that 3,000 cyclists on one day & another on the next day isn't acceptable to you & your ilk?
Your also saying cars stick to the roads really? What about illegal 4x4 dirt racing that happens in the forest?
What about parents buying their sons(young) motorbikes & taking them into the forest to ride them?
if your a reconciler please show me where the reconciliation is in any of your posts?
Most racing events/cycling will have stewards & set out courses so if cyclists are going of course on purpose why not alert the stewards?
Come on get real this is about a group of forest residents who think they own the forest & should say who uses it & who doesn't!
what would happen if no event was organised but through youtube thousands of cyclists took their legitimate right & cycled through the forest? how are you going to stop them? arrest them? NO you can't unless the laws been changed & cyclings now illegal?
Cycling was our most successful sport at the olympics & on the world stage yet you lot oppose it?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Thank you for your various points, Loosehead. I'll try to respond to them all. First facts re numbers: The total of the 2 week-end days is near 6,000 = 3,000 per day. Various correspondents above assume we are grumbling about 1,000. In fact part of our reconciling process is to ask for a limit of 1,000. This would still cause problems but could be lived with. The discussion is not about cars, but since you raise it most of them traversing the Forest stay on the through roads. The cycling route blocks 100 miles of narrow working farm lanes, and commoners trying to go about their essential business of maintaining the area suffer threats and abuse for being "in the way". A large proportion of these riders seem ignorant of the Forest /farm way of life and even complain about animal droppings. If you ride through a farm that is what you must expect. Narrow road tyres are not particularly suitable, by the way. 6,000 riders in one week-end produce a great deal of human poo and, yes, Wiggle are at fault for not providing adequate means of disposal. This has been brought to their attention after every event for the past five years and they have promised to provide adequate facilities, and still they think four loos at a refreshment stop are adequate! Little Tommy caught short has our sympathy, but systematic use of certain areas by thousands of cyclists is not acceptable. Last year I watched about 10 riders using the same bush near habitation in just 20 minutes. They presumably did not want to queue to use the 2 loos provided. If a car load of lads were seen behaving as you say, the registration number should allow them to be reported and warned. Unfortunately riders don't have numbers on their backs where they could be seen. Sorry you got held up by tractors - they are an essential part of Forest life and usually try to get out of the way when they have a few vehicles behind them. You should have used the A31! Unfortunately reconciliation requires understanding from both sides. Most residents like to see cyclists appreciating the area we love, and welcome them. We have shown good will by providing our limited toilet facilities, insisting on a track for cycles to pass behind pinch-points, standing and exchanging smiles with considerate riders, helping with directions when the route is unclear, etc., In return we ask for reasonable numbers (max 1,000), visible identification on riders' backs, respect for the rules of the road (keeping left at all times, for instance), evidence of respect for the "farm" workers and locals who need (NB and have at least as much right), to use the lanes, and in particular no dangerous racing. The Gridiron event causes virtually no upset. I understand it has about 1,000 participants. Riders are not confined to the same set route, but find their own way to certain check points, so spread out in very small groups in no hurry. Many local horse-riders cannot go out during these events - it is simply not safe as very few horses have the training given to Police or military horses, used to crowds It is not possible for most of them to keep completely off-road. Regarding local trade, many local businesses say they lose a lot of income because of these events blocking access. Figures go up for B&B and pubs, but the story is by no means one-sided. Unemployment is virtually nil in the Park, according to NFDC official figures. I hope this helps.[/p][/quote]No as if I recollect the "Forest" as such was a Kings hunting ground not for farmers private use! So your saying that 3,000 cyclists on one day & another on the next day isn't acceptable to you & your ilk? Your also saying cars stick to the roads really? What about illegal 4x4 dirt racing that happens in the forest? What about parents buying their sons(young) motorbikes & taking them into the forest to ride them? if your a reconciler please show me where the reconciliation is in any of your posts? Most racing events/cycling will have stewards & set out courses so if cyclists are going of course on purpose why not alert the stewards? Come on get real this is about a group of forest residents who think they own the forest & should say who uses it & who doesn't! what would happen if no event was organised but through youtube thousands of cyclists took their legitimate right & cycled through the forest? how are you going to stop them? arrest them? NO you can't unless the laws been changed & cyclings now illegal? Cycling was our most successful sport at the olympics & on the world stage yet you lot oppose it? loosehead

11:24pm Mon 23 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Ginger, you are assuming you would have time to slow down/stop. These cyclists are riding really fast. People report rounding a bend, meeting such a group and having to throw the car on to the verge to avoid killing some of them. This is terrifying. These riders are too thickly packed to do anything other than keep going and certainly wouldn't break their racing formation to give you high fives.

Loosehead, again you are trying to divert attention from the problems caused by mass cycling by saying that there are other activities which damage the Forest.. First you tried blaming motorists, now it is cars and motorbikes on the open Forest , etc. This can't absolve cyclists from their responsibilities. I said nothing about cars going off road - merely that the majority keep to the through routes and are therefore less disruptive to the work of the Forest than thousands of cyclists occupying 100 miles of narrow lanes used every day for carting hay to freeranging stock, inspecting the animals for injury or illness, milking cows, training ponies, moving some into enclosed fields and others out and so on, William Conqueror recognised that this work was essential to the maintenance of his Hunting Forest when he took over an area that had been created by many centuries of this way of life and decreed that the "commoners" be allowed to remain, with certain privileges such as turning their cows out to graze, gather wood, cut peat ...in return for caring for his Forest. Without this hard, simple way of life (most are not wealthy) the landscape would soon be destroyed, and within the cattle grids it is like one large farm. The National Park was created in recognition of the need to preserve the landscape for the nation as a place to be enjoyed for its special qualities - not for visitors to run whatever activity they like and thus destroy those very qualities. Residents work hard to maintain it and don't deserve to be vilified as nimbies. They are trying to share it with those who want to respect and appreciate it. It is not the residents who say who should and should not use it. This is the Law of the Land (like the other National Parks) and the Forest has to have special regulations to protect it. The only down side of GB success in the Olympics is that too many consider themselves capable of emulating Wiggo. Whereas his success came from riding in a team on closed roads with good surfaces, unfortunately the Forest cannot be closed because of the livestock.
Who has suggested the riders in these road events are going off course? They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes.
Where have you found any evidence that we oppose cycling? We welcome it. All we ask for is some moderation and respect for both the Forest and its carers.
Ginger, you are assuming you would have time to slow down/stop. These cyclists are riding really fast. People report rounding a bend, meeting such a group and having to throw the car on to the verge to avoid killing some of them. This is terrifying. These riders are too thickly packed to do anything other than keep going and certainly wouldn't break their racing formation to give you high fives. Loosehead, again you are trying to divert attention from the problems caused by mass cycling by saying that there are other activities which damage the Forest.. First you tried blaming motorists, now it is cars and motorbikes on the open Forest , etc. This can't absolve cyclists from their responsibilities. I said nothing about cars going off road - merely that the majority keep to the through routes and are therefore less disruptive to the work of the Forest than thousands of cyclists occupying 100 miles of narrow lanes used every day for carting hay to freeranging stock, inspecting the animals for injury or illness, milking cows, training ponies, moving some into enclosed fields and others out and so on, William Conqueror recognised that this work was essential to the maintenance of his Hunting Forest when he took over an area that had been created by many centuries of this way of life and decreed that the "commoners" be allowed to remain, with certain privileges such as turning their cows out to graze, gather wood, cut peat ...in return for caring for his Forest. Without this hard, simple way of life (most are not wealthy) the landscape would soon be destroyed, and within the cattle grids it is like one large farm. The National Park was created in recognition of the need to preserve the landscape for the nation as a place to be enjoyed for its special qualities - not for visitors to run whatever activity they like and thus destroy those very qualities. Residents work hard to maintain it and don't deserve to be vilified as nimbies. They are trying to share it with those who want to respect and appreciate it. It is not the residents who say who should and should not use it. This is the Law of the Land (like the other National Parks) and the Forest has to have special regulations to protect it. The only down side of GB success in the Olympics is that too many consider themselves capable of emulating Wiggo. Whereas his success came from riding in a team on closed roads with good surfaces, unfortunately the Forest cannot be closed because of the livestock. Who has suggested the riders in these road events are going off course? They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes. Where have you found any evidence that we oppose cycling? We welcome it. All we ask for is some moderation and respect for both the Forest and its carers. Reconciler

8:06am Tue 24 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Ginger, you are assuming you would have time to slow down/stop. These cyclists are riding really fast. People report rounding a bend, meeting such a group and having to throw the car on to the verge to avoid killing some of them. This is terrifying. These riders are too thickly packed to do anything other than keep going and certainly wouldn't break their racing formation to give you high fives.

Loosehead, again you are trying to divert attention from the problems caused by mass cycling by saying that there are other activities which damage the Forest.. First you tried blaming motorists, now it is cars and motorbikes on the open Forest , etc. This can't absolve cyclists from their responsibilities. I said nothing about cars going off road - merely that the majority keep to the through routes and are therefore less disruptive to the work of the Forest than thousands of cyclists occupying 100 miles of narrow lanes used every day for carting hay to freeranging stock, inspecting the animals for injury or illness, milking cows, training ponies, moving some into enclosed fields and others out and so on, William Conqueror recognised that this work was essential to the maintenance of his Hunting Forest when he took over an area that had been created by many centuries of this way of life and decreed that the "commoners" be allowed to remain, with certain privileges such as turning their cows out to graze, gather wood, cut peat ...in return for caring for his Forest. Without this hard, simple way of life (most are not wealthy) the landscape would soon be destroyed, and within the cattle grids it is like one large farm. The National Park was created in recognition of the need to preserve the landscape for the nation as a place to be enjoyed for its special qualities - not for visitors to run whatever activity they like and thus destroy those very qualities. Residents work hard to maintain it and don't deserve to be vilified as nimbies. They are trying to share it with those who want to respect and appreciate it. It is not the residents who say who should and should not use it. This is the Law of the Land (like the other National Parks) and the Forest has to have special regulations to protect it. The only down side of GB success in the Olympics is that too many consider themselves capable of emulating Wiggo. Whereas his success came from riding in a team on closed roads with good surfaces, unfortunately the Forest cannot be closed because of the livestock.
Who has suggested the riders in these road events are going off course? They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes.
Where have you found any evidence that we oppose cycling? We welcome it. All we ask for is some moderation and respect for both the Forest and its carers.
so why not sit down & work out a course that's acceptable to both residents & cyclists with the organisers of this event?
Reconciler at this time of year it would be great for all parties to come to an agreement that suits both sides.
Look I've even sais I'd love to see a round Southampton cycle race!
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Ginger, you are assuming you would have time to slow down/stop. These cyclists are riding really fast. People report rounding a bend, meeting such a group and having to throw the car on to the verge to avoid killing some of them. This is terrifying. These riders are too thickly packed to do anything other than keep going and certainly wouldn't break their racing formation to give you high fives. Loosehead, again you are trying to divert attention from the problems caused by mass cycling by saying that there are other activities which damage the Forest.. First you tried blaming motorists, now it is cars and motorbikes on the open Forest , etc. This can't absolve cyclists from their responsibilities. I said nothing about cars going off road - merely that the majority keep to the through routes and are therefore less disruptive to the work of the Forest than thousands of cyclists occupying 100 miles of narrow lanes used every day for carting hay to freeranging stock, inspecting the animals for injury or illness, milking cows, training ponies, moving some into enclosed fields and others out and so on, William Conqueror recognised that this work was essential to the maintenance of his Hunting Forest when he took over an area that had been created by many centuries of this way of life and decreed that the "commoners" be allowed to remain, with certain privileges such as turning their cows out to graze, gather wood, cut peat ...in return for caring for his Forest. Without this hard, simple way of life (most are not wealthy) the landscape would soon be destroyed, and within the cattle grids it is like one large farm. The National Park was created in recognition of the need to preserve the landscape for the nation as a place to be enjoyed for its special qualities - not for visitors to run whatever activity they like and thus destroy those very qualities. Residents work hard to maintain it and don't deserve to be vilified as nimbies. They are trying to share it with those who want to respect and appreciate it. It is not the residents who say who should and should not use it. This is the Law of the Land (like the other National Parks) and the Forest has to have special regulations to protect it. The only down side of GB success in the Olympics is that too many consider themselves capable of emulating Wiggo. Whereas his success came from riding in a team on closed roads with good surfaces, unfortunately the Forest cannot be closed because of the livestock. Who has suggested the riders in these road events are going off course? They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes. Where have you found any evidence that we oppose cycling? We welcome it. All we ask for is some moderation and respect for both the Forest and its carers.[/p][/quote]so why not sit down & work out a course that's acceptable to both residents & cyclists with the organisers of this event? Reconciler at this time of year it would be great for all parties to come to an agreement that suits both sides. Look I've even sais I'd love to see a round Southampton cycle race! loosehead

8:50am Tue 24 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

We're trying!

Would you close the roads for your Southampton Race?
We're trying! Would you close the roads for your Southampton Race? Reconciler

2:18pm Tue 24 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
We're trying!

Would you close the roads for your Southampton Race?
we did for the marathon so why not? reconciler these types of events bring great pleasure to many people of all ages so 1-2 days with roads being shut for a few hours each day or even one side of say a dual carriageway being shut(Millbrook road?) shouldn't upset to many people especially as there's many ways into the city if people need to get there
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: We're trying! Would you close the roads for your Southampton Race?[/p][/quote]we did for the marathon so why not? reconciler these types of events bring great pleasure to many people of all ages so 1-2 days with roads being shut for a few hours each day or even one side of say a dual carriageway being shut(Millbrook road?) shouldn't upset to many people especially as there's many ways into the city if people need to get there loosehead

6:45pm Tue 24 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Sounds great! Unfortunately the New Forest doesn't have this choice, as the animals roam free and cannot be kept off the roads. Closed roads are the answer elsewhere - provided, of course, that it doesn't happen too often, as I hear is happening around Box Hill in Surrey. The French often work it by rolling closure, which only cuts residents off from their normal road use for, say, 20 minutes while the peloton whizzes through. Much safer for everybody.

We agree about something - that's an achievement.

Have a very happy Christmas!
Sounds great! Unfortunately the New Forest doesn't have this choice, as the animals roam free and cannot be kept off the roads. Closed roads are the answer elsewhere - provided, of course, that it doesn't happen too often, as I hear is happening around Box Hill in Surrey. The French often work it by rolling closure, which only cuts residents off from their normal road use for, say, 20 minutes while the peloton whizzes through. Much safer for everybody. We agree about something - that's an achievement. Have a very happy Christmas! Reconciler

8:32am Wed 25 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Sounds great! Unfortunately the New Forest doesn't have this choice, as the animals roam free and cannot be kept off the roads. Closed roads are the answer elsewhere - provided, of course, that it doesn't happen too often, as I hear is happening around Box Hill in Surrey. The French often work it by rolling closure, which only cuts residents off from their normal road use for, say, 20 minutes while the peloton whizzes through. Much safer for everybody.

We agree about something - that's an achievement.

Have a very happy Christmas!
put that idea forward to the organisers(French) Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Sounds great! Unfortunately the New Forest doesn't have this choice, as the animals roam free and cannot be kept off the roads. Closed roads are the answer elsewhere - provided, of course, that it doesn't happen too often, as I hear is happening around Box Hill in Surrey. The French often work it by rolling closure, which only cuts residents off from their normal road use for, say, 20 minutes while the peloton whizzes through. Much safer for everybody. We agree about something - that's an achievement. Have a very happy Christmas![/p][/quote]put that idea forward to the organisers(French) Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year loosehead

12:20pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

I hope you enjoyed a real Christmas celebration. Our family shared a great time, thank you.

Can you think of a way to guarantee that a few miles of New Forest road will be empty of free-ranging stock for even a few minutes? Nobody I know of can come up with an effective answer. However, I am told that temporary closure of town or fenced roads by Police on motorbikes could make mass cycling events more popular with other road users whose lives are disrupted for several hours under the present arrangements. (There was a fascinating example of this for the transport of the coffin after Churchill's funeral!) Also the peloton has to be pretty compact, whereas in sportives some get round in 4+hours, others take 7+. It is not for me to impose my thoughts on other areas, but I believe this idea is being studied. Of course, France has a great deal more space to play with, because it is four times larger per head of population than England.

More constructive ideas welcomed.
I hope you enjoyed a real Christmas celebration. Our family shared a great time, thank you. Can you think of a way to guarantee that a few miles of New Forest road will be empty of free-ranging stock for even a few minutes? Nobody I know of can come up with an effective answer. However, I am told that temporary closure of town or fenced roads by Police on motorbikes could make mass cycling events more popular with other road users whose lives are disrupted for several hours under the present arrangements. (There was a fascinating example of this for the transport of the coffin after Churchill's funeral!) Also the peloton has to be pretty compact, whereas in sportives some get round in 4+hours, others take 7+. It is not for me to impose my thoughts on other areas, but I believe this idea is being studied. Of course, France has a great deal more space to play with, because it is four times larger per head of population than England. More constructive ideas welcomed. Reconciler

3:49pm Fri 27 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
I hope you enjoyed a real Christmas celebration. Our family shared a great time, thank you.

Can you think of a way to guarantee that a few miles of New Forest road will be empty of free-ranging stock for even a few minutes? Nobody I know of can come up with an effective answer. However, I am told that temporary closure of town or fenced roads by Police on motorbikes could make mass cycling events more popular with other road users whose lives are disrupted for several hours under the present arrangements. (There was a fascinating example of this for the transport of the coffin after Churchill's funeral!) Also the peloton has to be pretty compact, whereas in sportives some get round in 4+hours, others take 7+. It is not for me to impose my thoughts on other areas, but I believe this idea is being studied. Of course, France has a great deal more space to play with, because it is four times larger per head of population than England.

More constructive ideas welcomed.
maybe block one side of the road to any traffic besides the cycles until the bulk of them has past through or find roads where the closure wouldn't effect to many residents & give definite times of their re opening & any stragglers would have to ride alongside normal traffic?
When I did Southampton half marathon roads like Shirley High street were cut to one side single lane until we'd pass.
maybe make it so the race starts at the roads where they're not wide enough to cut to one side only so getting them open straight after the start?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: I hope you enjoyed a real Christmas celebration. Our family shared a great time, thank you. Can you think of a way to guarantee that a few miles of New Forest road will be empty of free-ranging stock for even a few minutes? Nobody I know of can come up with an effective answer. However, I am told that temporary closure of town or fenced roads by Police on motorbikes could make mass cycling events more popular with other road users whose lives are disrupted for several hours under the present arrangements. (There was a fascinating example of this for the transport of the coffin after Churchill's funeral!) Also the peloton has to be pretty compact, whereas in sportives some get round in 4+hours, others take 7+. It is not for me to impose my thoughts on other areas, but I believe this idea is being studied. Of course, France has a great deal more space to play with, because it is four times larger per head of population than England. More constructive ideas welcomed.[/p][/quote]maybe block one side of the road to any traffic besides the cycles until the bulk of them has past through or find roads where the closure wouldn't effect to many residents & give definite times of their re opening & any stragglers would have to ride alongside normal traffic? When I did Southampton half marathon roads like Shirley High street were cut to one side single lane until we'd pass. maybe make it so the race starts at the roads where they're not wide enough to cut to one side only so getting them open straight after the start? loosehead

4:20pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

When half of Shirley High St was closed, was a diversion route set up, or did the marathon only take a short while to go through? Was there room for traffic to wait until the road was re-opened? How was the road divided? Traffic cones or temporary barriers? This is a serious suggestion worth examining, so I'm trying to get it clear in my mind.

Studying the map of the Forest, I can't see a route covering 100 miles where single track roads could be used first followed by more open roads. Can you pick one out? Also, how do you explain the temporary closures to animals? New Forest lanes, apart from through roads, are mainly not wide enough to have two separated sides. Traffic has to keep to keep tight to the left in order to pass oncoming vehicles. I hate to sound anti-cyclist, but how do you suggest making those riders who are racing slow down and obey the half-road rule? (I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just pleased to have some sweet reason coming back!)
When half of Shirley High St was closed, was a diversion route set up, or did the marathon only take a short while to go through? Was there room for traffic to wait until the road was re-opened? How was the road divided? Traffic cones or temporary barriers? This is a serious suggestion worth examining, so I'm trying to get it clear in my mind. Studying the map of the Forest, I can't see a route covering 100 miles where single track roads could be used first followed by more open roads. Can you pick one out? Also, how do you explain the temporary closures to animals? New Forest lanes, apart from through roads, are mainly not wide enough to have two separated sides. Traffic has to keep to keep tight to the left in order to pass oncoming vehicles. I hate to sound anti-cyclist, but how do you suggest making those riders who are racing slow down and obey the half-road rule? (I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just pleased to have some sweet reason coming back!) Reconciler

9:10pm Fri 27 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
When half of Shirley High St was closed, was a diversion route set up, or did the marathon only take a short while to go through? Was there room for traffic to wait until the road was re-opened? How was the road divided? Traffic cones or temporary barriers? This is a serious suggestion worth examining, so I'm trying to get it clear in my mind.

Studying the map of the Forest, I can't see a route covering 100 miles where single track roads could be used first followed by more open roads. Can you pick one out? Also, how do you explain the temporary closures to animals? New Forest lanes, apart from through roads, are mainly not wide enough to have two separated sides. Traffic has to keep to keep tight to the left in order to pass oncoming vehicles. I hate to sound anti-cyclist, but how do you suggest making those riders who are racing slow down and obey the half-road rule? (I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just pleased to have some sweet reason coming back!)
i've tried to put forward constructive ideas & I do know you have many dual carriageways plus roads around Exbury which aren't particularly busy & when I've gone there the horses are far back from the road.
I'm not sure how they did it but I took just over 2 hours & I came into the top half of the field at the end but look at the route they took.
Start off the Avenue down Burgess rd down Hill Lane down through to Shirley High street down past Foyes Corner down Commercial rd around to the train station up into town(park through to subways down to Itchen Bridge & over down to pear tree Avenue up that road through Townhill park through riverside over cobden bridge through top end of Portswood into the common all those roads are busy to the traffic & people shopping.
If your telling me there's no problem with animals through the forest when just cars drive down those roads I know your not being truthful as I know of at least one car driver who hit a horse & ended up in hospital with the horse dead so surely for those periods of the race animals could be kept from the roads?
Why not contact Southampton Council or Hampshire Police to see how they organise the likes of the Pompey run?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: When half of Shirley High St was closed, was a diversion route set up, or did the marathon only take a short while to go through? Was there room for traffic to wait until the road was re-opened? How was the road divided? Traffic cones or temporary barriers? This is a serious suggestion worth examining, so I'm trying to get it clear in my mind. Studying the map of the Forest, I can't see a route covering 100 miles where single track roads could be used first followed by more open roads. Can you pick one out? Also, how do you explain the temporary closures to animals? New Forest lanes, apart from through roads, are mainly not wide enough to have two separated sides. Traffic has to keep to keep tight to the left in order to pass oncoming vehicles. I hate to sound anti-cyclist, but how do you suggest making those riders who are racing slow down and obey the half-road rule? (I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just pleased to have some sweet reason coming back!)[/p][/quote]i've tried to put forward constructive ideas & I do know you have many dual carriageways plus roads around Exbury which aren't particularly busy & when I've gone there the horses are far back from the road. I'm not sure how they did it but I took just over 2 hours & I came into the top half of the field at the end but look at the route they took. Start off the Avenue down Burgess rd down Hill Lane down through to Shirley High street down past Foyes Corner down Commercial rd around to the train station up into town(park through to subways down to Itchen Bridge & over down to pear tree Avenue up that road through Townhill park through riverside over cobden bridge through top end of Portswood into the common all those roads are busy to the traffic & people shopping. If your telling me there's no problem with animals through the forest when just cars drive down those roads I know your not being truthful as I know of at least one car driver who hit a horse & ended up in hospital with the horse dead so surely for those periods of the race animals could be kept from the roads? Why not contact Southampton Council or Hampshire Police to see how they organise the likes of the Pompey run? loosehead

11:24pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Yes, cars are the main problem for stock animals in the Forest - mainly commuter traffic to and from Southampton from Bournemouth, NE Dorset and Wiltshire - and we are constantly looking for new ways to reduce the carnage. However, cars do not cause the particular problems that come with mass cycling events, i.e. blocking a hundred miles of little lanes that carry the working life of Forest maintenance.

Sportives like to use hills as an important part of the challenge, and the area round Exbury does not have that attraction. The steep hills are in the North of the Forest - notably Blissford Hill, which can only be aproached by very narrow, steep lanes, Perhaps you could ask the organisers if they would be willing to stick to the wider roads in the less interesting areas. Would the participants like that idea?

There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this?

The Southampton run sounds great and congratulations for doing so well in it. How often is it held? I might try to come and wave you on!
Yes, cars are the main problem for stock animals in the Forest - mainly commuter traffic to and from Southampton from Bournemouth, NE Dorset and Wiltshire - and we are constantly looking for new ways to reduce the carnage. However, cars do not cause the particular problems that come with mass cycling events, i.e. blocking a hundred miles of little lanes that carry the working life of Forest maintenance. Sportives like to use hills as an important part of the challenge, and the area round Exbury does not have that attraction. The steep hills are in the North of the Forest - notably Blissford Hill, which can only be aproached by very narrow, steep lanes, Perhaps you could ask the organisers if they would be willing to stick to the wider roads in the less interesting areas. Would the participants like that idea? There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this? The Southampton run sounds great and congratulations for doing so well in it. How often is it held? I might try to come and wave you on! Reconciler

9:21am Sat 28 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Yes, cars are the main problem for stock animals in the Forest - mainly commuter traffic to and from Southampton from Bournemouth, NE Dorset and Wiltshire - and we are constantly looking for new ways to reduce the carnage. However, cars do not cause the particular problems that come with mass cycling events, i.e. blocking a hundred miles of little lanes that carry the working life of Forest maintenance.

Sportives like to use hills as an important part of the challenge, and the area round Exbury does not have that attraction. The steep hills are in the North of the Forest - notably Blissford Hill, which can only be aproached by very narrow, steep lanes, Perhaps you could ask the organisers if they would be willing to stick to the wider roads in the less interesting areas. Would the participants like that idea?

There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this?

The Southampton run sounds great and congratulations for doing so well in it. How often is it held? I might try to come and wave you on!
it's not run anymore & I don't know the reason why? as for the cycling I'm not an organiser of anything but if there was no event or an event over a less attractive part of the forest then I'd want the event to happen so whoevers in charge should look at an alternative route & put it to the Wiggle organisers?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Yes, cars are the main problem for stock animals in the Forest - mainly commuter traffic to and from Southampton from Bournemouth, NE Dorset and Wiltshire - and we are constantly looking for new ways to reduce the carnage. However, cars do not cause the particular problems that come with mass cycling events, i.e. blocking a hundred miles of little lanes that carry the working life of Forest maintenance. Sportives like to use hills as an important part of the challenge, and the area round Exbury does not have that attraction. The steep hills are in the North of the Forest - notably Blissford Hill, which can only be aproached by very narrow, steep lanes, Perhaps you could ask the organisers if they would be willing to stick to the wider roads in the less interesting areas. Would the participants like that idea? There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this? The Southampton run sounds great and congratulations for doing so well in it. How often is it held? I might try to come and wave you on![/p][/quote]it's not run anymore & I don't know the reason why? as for the cycling I'm not an organiser of anything but if there was no event or an event over a less attractive part of the forest then I'd want the event to happen so whoevers in charge should look at an alternative route & put it to the Wiggle organisers? loosehead

11:36am Sat 28 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

Why don't you e-mail Wiggle and put your suggestion? It would be great for them to have something constructive to work with which has come from one of their own customers. I'll pass it on to the Cycling Liaison Committee. Of course I can't speak for the commoners and residents around Exbury! They might not like having their roads divided in half for the greater part of two days several times a year, plus STRAVA riders concentrating on that area to compete separately from the sportive.

In the meantime, a report has just been published on the NPA website of a "Charter for Organisers". Please let your contacts know that this is premature, as no such Charter has yet been agreed. An officer in the NPA must either been deceived or has made a mistake,

I am very sorry that you think I might not be being truthful. I know it is hard for a keen cyclist to trust anyone who does not think cyclists are completely good, but I have done my best to show, without being offensive or devious/untruthful, how mass events affect other road users . That being said, I now have to confess to one mistake: I mentioned "Winston Churchill''s" funeral, whereas I don't know if that hearse had a Police rolling road closure for its final journey. Probably I'm thinking of Margaret Thatcher. I do clearly remember the manoeuvres being shown on TV - incredibly efficient. Many apologies for the aberration. Otherwise, please just check on line regarding the management of the Forest. There are fascinating histories and explanations which you would probably enjoy reading.

Sorry about the Southampton run. Possibly the reason for giving it up is unacceptable disruption of the lives of residents and businesses? From the point of view of participants it sounds great. By the way, I don't think your user name suits you - it sounds pretty well screwed on to me!
Why don't you e-mail Wiggle and put your suggestion? It would be great for them to have something constructive to work with which has come from one of their own customers. I'll pass it on to the Cycling Liaison Committee. Of course I can't speak for the commoners and residents around Exbury! They might not like having their roads divided in half for the greater part of two days several times a year, plus STRAVA riders concentrating on that area to compete separately from the sportive. In the meantime, a report has just been published on the NPA website of a "Charter for Organisers". Please let your contacts know that this is premature, as no such Charter has yet been agreed. An officer in the NPA must either been deceived or has made a mistake, I am very sorry that you think I might not be being truthful. I know it is hard for a keen cyclist to trust anyone who does not think cyclists are completely good, but I have done my best to show, without being offensive or devious/untruthful, how mass events affect other road users . That being said, I now have to confess to one mistake: I mentioned "Winston Churchill''s" funeral, whereas I don't know if that hearse had a Police rolling road closure for its final journey. Probably I'm thinking of Margaret Thatcher. I do clearly remember the manoeuvres being shown on TV - incredibly efficient. Many apologies for the aberration. Otherwise, please just check on line regarding the management of the Forest. There are fascinating histories and explanations which you would probably enjoy reading. Sorry about the Southampton run. Possibly the reason for giving it up is unacceptable disruption of the lives of residents and businesses? From the point of view of participants it sounds great. By the way, I don't think your user name suits you - it sounds pretty well screwed on to me! Reconciler

3:03pm Sat 28 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Why don't you e-mail Wiggle and put your suggestion? It would be great for them to have something constructive to work with which has come from one of their own customers. I'll pass it on to the Cycling Liaison Committee. Of course I can't speak for the commoners and residents around Exbury! They might not like having their roads divided in half for the greater part of two days several times a year, plus STRAVA riders concentrating on that area to compete separately from the sportive.

In the meantime, a report has just been published on the NPA website of a "Charter for Organisers". Please let your contacts know that this is premature, as no such Charter has yet been agreed. An officer in the NPA must either been deceived or has made a mistake,

I am very sorry that you think I might not be being truthful. I know it is hard for a keen cyclist to trust anyone who does not think cyclists are completely good, but I have done my best to show, without being offensive or devious/untruthful, how mass events affect other road users . That being said, I now have to confess to one mistake: I mentioned "Winston Churchill''s" funeral, whereas I don't know if that hearse had a Police rolling road closure for its final journey. Probably I'm thinking of Margaret Thatcher. I do clearly remember the manoeuvres being shown on TV - incredibly efficient. Many apologies for the aberration. Otherwise, please just check on line regarding the management of the Forest. There are fascinating histories and explanations which you would probably enjoy reading.

Sorry about the Southampton run. Possibly the reason for giving it up is unacceptable disruption of the lives of residents and businesses? From the point of view of participants it sounds great. By the way, I don't think your user name suits you - it sounds pretty well screwed on to me!
marathon I think was a change of council(party).here'
s an idea what about stoney cross & around that way? use to do TA driver training & it was quite?
I haven't rode a cycle for a while now but enjoy watching the cycling & I was just firing ideas which could make it possible for as you've said 6,000 people enjoying their sport with out ruining other peoples day.
there must be routes that can be used with minimal disruption so bringing in tourists & a much needed boost to the Forest economy whilst allowing such a small inconvenience to the locals it would be like it never happened.
I didn't mean to call you a liar but every idea I put forward you come back with a reason not to go ahead with.
Look at motorbike rides or oversized vehicle convoys/army the police block off certain exits to allow them to pass & once gone it's back to normal surely all of this can be looked into?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Why don't you e-mail Wiggle and put your suggestion? It would be great for them to have something constructive to work with which has come from one of their own customers. I'll pass it on to the Cycling Liaison Committee. Of course I can't speak for the commoners and residents around Exbury! They might not like having their roads divided in half for the greater part of two days several times a year, plus STRAVA riders concentrating on that area to compete separately from the sportive. In the meantime, a report has just been published on the NPA website of a "Charter for Organisers". Please let your contacts know that this is premature, as no such Charter has yet been agreed. An officer in the NPA must either been deceived or has made a mistake, I am very sorry that you think I might not be being truthful. I know it is hard for a keen cyclist to trust anyone who does not think cyclists are completely good, but I have done my best to show, without being offensive or devious/untruthful, how mass events affect other road users . That being said, I now have to confess to one mistake: I mentioned "Winston Churchill''s" funeral, whereas I don't know if that hearse had a Police rolling road closure for its final journey. Probably I'm thinking of Margaret Thatcher. I do clearly remember the manoeuvres being shown on TV - incredibly efficient. Many apologies for the aberration. Otherwise, please just check on line regarding the management of the Forest. There are fascinating histories and explanations which you would probably enjoy reading. Sorry about the Southampton run. Possibly the reason for giving it up is unacceptable disruption of the lives of residents and businesses? From the point of view of participants it sounds great. By the way, I don't think your user name suits you - it sounds pretty well screwed on to me![/p][/quote]marathon I think was a change of council(party).here' s an idea what about stoney cross & around that way? use to do TA driver training & it was quite? I haven't rode a cycle for a while now but enjoy watching the cycling & I was just firing ideas which could make it possible for as you've said 6,000 people enjoying their sport with out ruining other peoples day. there must be routes that can be used with minimal disruption so bringing in tourists & a much needed boost to the Forest economy whilst allowing such a small inconvenience to the locals it would be like it never happened. I didn't mean to call you a liar but every idea I put forward you come back with a reason not to go ahead with. Look at motorbike rides or oversized vehicle convoys/army the police block off certain exits to allow them to pass & once gone it's back to normal surely all of this can be looked into? loosehead

3:21pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

All these ideas might be possible without the free-ranging animals. How can they be kept off the roads?

And have you asked Wiggle if they would be willing to pay for the Police services?

Most reasonable residents think 1,000 riders could be coped with, provided they all really did ride safely with animals as well as humans in mind. Would you be willing to accept that? Sorry to keep replying with problems, but these are all matters which have to be tackled, and without Wiggle's cooperation we'll get nowhere.
All these ideas might be possible without the free-ranging animals. How can they be kept off the roads? And have you asked Wiggle if they would be willing to pay for the Police services? Most reasonable residents think 1,000 riders could be coped with, provided they all really did ride safely with animals as well as humans in mind. Would you be willing to accept that? Sorry to keep replying with problems, but these are all matters which have to be tackled, and without Wiggle's cooperation we'll get nowhere. Reconciler

9:13pm Sat 28 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
All these ideas might be possible without the free-ranging animals. How can they be kept off the roads?

And have you asked Wiggle if they would be willing to pay for the Police services?

Most reasonable residents think 1,000 riders could be coped with, provided they all really did ride safely with animals as well as humans in mind. Would you be willing to accept that? Sorry to keep replying with problems, but these are all matters which have to be tackled, and without Wiggle's cooperation we'll get nowhere.
there you go again "the animals" so where are all these animals where speeding motorists are hurtling through the forest? no matter who drives/rides along these roads there will be wild animals so what's the solution?
1/kill all the animals? NO?.
2/ ban all forms of transport other than say horse riders trotting ? NO?
look with the population of this country continuing to rise the strain on the roads is also going to rise & the New Forest isn't immune to this so we all (those in oversight of the forest) will have to look at ways to protect these animals whilst allowing such events.
saw a program where a new road went through a forest & bridges disguised as woodland areas were built so the animals would use them instead of trying to cross the road maybe that's a solution?
but to blanket ban events like the Wiggle & give an excuse about wild life is pretty poor with the traffic that's already on those roads!
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: All these ideas might be possible without the free-ranging animals. How can they be kept off the roads? And have you asked Wiggle if they would be willing to pay for the Police services? Most reasonable residents think 1,000 riders could be coped with, provided they all really did ride safely with animals as well as humans in mind. Would you be willing to accept that? Sorry to keep replying with problems, but these are all matters which have to be tackled, and without Wiggle's cooperation we'll get nowhere.[/p][/quote]there you go again "the animals" so where are all these animals where speeding motorists are hurtling through the forest? no matter who drives/rides along these roads there will be wild animals so what's the solution? 1/kill all the animals? NO?. 2/ ban all forms of transport other than say horse riders trotting ? NO? look with the population of this country continuing to rise the strain on the roads is also going to rise & the New Forest isn't immune to this so we all (those in oversight of the forest) will have to look at ways to protect these animals whilst allowing such events. saw a program where a new road went through a forest & bridges disguised as woodland areas were built so the animals would use them instead of trying to cross the road maybe that's a solution? but to blanket ban events like the Wiggle & give an excuse about wild life is pretty poor with the traffic that's already on those roads! loosehead

11:28pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

If you want to close roads so that cyclists can ride as fast as they like without worrying about animals, you have to remove the animals - which cannot be done, as I've explained. We are not complaining about the danger to the animals from cyclists (although there is a little), but about the blocking of the lanes to the traffic which is absolutely essential to care for them and thus maintain the beauty of the Forest for visitors such as cyclists. This work cannot be arranged to avoid several hours of speeding cyclists - it has to be done daily and at certain regular times. A great proportion of the riders get very angry indeed - and offensively show their anger - when they are held up by such traffic and show no understanding of how the Forest works. They demonstrate that they are not here to enjoy the Forest, but simply to race to the end of the sportive as fast as they possibly can. Surely this attitude is a waste of all that hard-earned beauty? There are plenty of more suitable tracks for racing.

By the way the stock animals are free-ranging - not wild, except deer, badgers, etc. So far as I know we have no lions or tigers wandering about!

We are constantly struggling with dangerous, speeding cars, and are sickened at the effects on the livestock. Police have frequent speed camera sessions and catch very large numbers of reckless drivers on the through routes used by commuters (the worst culprits) and locals have no compunction about reporting frequent offenders. However, this does not make it right to allow 3000 cyclists to block narrow lanes for several hours and thus prevent the essential daily routine of caring for the animals which are the "maintenance machines" of the Forest.

There have been wonderful ideas of taking through-route roads through tunnels, but where would you suggest we get the finance? If you can lay your hands on a few £billion we may have a solution! I, for one, would vote for that without hesitation.

It is simply not true that we are trying to blanket-ban mass cycling events. We are trying to find ways of living with them - and it needs concessions from both sides. Our correspondence seems to have spread out on to two Echo sites. Have you replied to the idea of putting a cap of 1,000 on the numbers allowed in any one event?
If you want to close roads so that cyclists can ride as fast as they like without worrying about animals, you have to remove the animals - which cannot be done, as I've explained. We are not complaining about the danger to the animals from cyclists (although there is a little), but about the blocking of the lanes to the traffic which is absolutely essential to care for them and thus maintain the beauty of the Forest for visitors such as cyclists. This work cannot be arranged to avoid several hours of speeding cyclists - it has to be done daily and at certain regular times. A great proportion of the riders get very angry indeed - and offensively show their anger - when they are held up by such traffic and show no understanding of how the Forest works. They demonstrate that they are not here to enjoy the Forest, but simply to race to the end of the sportive as fast as they possibly can. Surely this attitude is a waste of all that hard-earned beauty? There are plenty of more suitable tracks for racing. By the way the stock animals are free-ranging - not wild, except deer, badgers, etc. So far as I know we have no lions or tigers wandering about! We are constantly struggling with dangerous, speeding cars, and are sickened at the effects on the livestock. Police have frequent speed camera sessions and catch very large numbers of reckless drivers on the through routes used by commuters (the worst culprits) and locals have no compunction about reporting frequent offenders. However, this does not make it right to allow 3000 cyclists to block narrow lanes for several hours and thus prevent the essential daily routine of caring for the animals which are the "maintenance machines" of the Forest. There have been wonderful ideas of taking through-route roads through tunnels, but where would you suggest we get the finance? If you can lay your hands on a few £billion we may have a solution! I, for one, would vote for that without hesitation. It is simply not true that we are trying to blanket-ban mass cycling events. We are trying to find ways of living with them - and it needs concessions from both sides. Our correspondence seems to have spread out on to two Echo sites. Have you replied to the idea of putting a cap of 1,000 on the numbers allowed in any one event? Reconciler

7:49am Sun 29 Dec 13

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
If you want to close roads so that cyclists can ride as fast as they like without worrying about animals, you have to remove the animals - which cannot be done, as I've explained. We are not complaining about the danger to the animals from cyclists (although there is a little), but about the blocking of the lanes to the traffic which is absolutely essential to care for them and thus maintain the beauty of the Forest for visitors such as cyclists. This work cannot be arranged to avoid several hours of speeding cyclists - it has to be done daily and at certain regular times. A great proportion of the riders get very angry indeed - and offensively show their anger - when they are held up by such traffic and show no understanding of how the Forest works. They demonstrate that they are not here to enjoy the Forest, but simply to race to the end of the sportive as fast as they possibly can. Surely this attitude is a waste of all that hard-earned beauty? There are plenty of more suitable tracks for racing.

By the way the stock animals are free-ranging - not wild, except deer, badgers, etc. So far as I know we have no lions or tigers wandering about!

We are constantly struggling with dangerous, speeding cars, and are sickened at the effects on the livestock. Police have frequent speed camera sessions and catch very large numbers of reckless drivers on the through routes used by commuters (the worst culprits) and locals have no compunction about reporting frequent offenders. However, this does not make it right to allow 3000 cyclists to block narrow lanes for several hours and thus prevent the essential daily routine of caring for the animals which are the "maintenance machines" of the Forest.

There have been wonderful ideas of taking through-route roads through tunnels, but where would you suggest we get the finance? If you can lay your hands on a few £billion we may have a solution! I, for one, would vote for that without hesitation.

It is simply not true that we are trying to blanket-ban mass cycling events. We are trying to find ways of living with them - and it needs concessions from both sides. Our correspondence seems to have spread out on to two Echo sites. Have you replied to the idea of putting a cap of 1,000 on the numbers allowed in any one event?
so you are one of the opponents to this event? so much for reconciliation then?
you are going to put these animals up as a reason to hold this event no matter what alternative routes or ways to marshal the event are put forward aren't you?
as to only 1,000 cyclists yes if it's an international team race but it isn't it's a open race/cycle for everyone but hey your animals come before anyone or thing & as your animals why can't you control them on the race days?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: If you want to close roads so that cyclists can ride as fast as they like without worrying about animals, you have to remove the animals - which cannot be done, as I've explained. We are not complaining about the danger to the animals from cyclists (although there is a little), but about the blocking of the lanes to the traffic which is absolutely essential to care for them and thus maintain the beauty of the Forest for visitors such as cyclists. This work cannot be arranged to avoid several hours of speeding cyclists - it has to be done daily and at certain regular times. A great proportion of the riders get very angry indeed - and offensively show their anger - when they are held up by such traffic and show no understanding of how the Forest works. They demonstrate that they are not here to enjoy the Forest, but simply to race to the end of the sportive as fast as they possibly can. Surely this attitude is a waste of all that hard-earned beauty? There are plenty of more suitable tracks for racing. By the way the stock animals are free-ranging - not wild, except deer, badgers, etc. So far as I know we have no lions or tigers wandering about! We are constantly struggling with dangerous, speeding cars, and are sickened at the effects on the livestock. Police have frequent speed camera sessions and catch very large numbers of reckless drivers on the through routes used by commuters (the worst culprits) and locals have no compunction about reporting frequent offenders. However, this does not make it right to allow 3000 cyclists to block narrow lanes for several hours and thus prevent the essential daily routine of caring for the animals which are the "maintenance machines" of the Forest. There have been wonderful ideas of taking through-route roads through tunnels, but where would you suggest we get the finance? If you can lay your hands on a few £billion we may have a solution! I, for one, would vote for that without hesitation. It is simply not true that we are trying to blanket-ban mass cycling events. We are trying to find ways of living with them - and it needs concessions from both sides. Our correspondence seems to have spread out on to two Echo sites. Have you replied to the idea of putting a cap of 1,000 on the numbers allowed in any one event?[/p][/quote]so you are one of the opponents to this event? so much for reconciliation then? you are going to put these animals up as a reason to hold this event no matter what alternative routes or ways to marshal the event are put forward aren't you? as to only 1,000 cyclists yes if it's an international team race but it isn't it's a open race/cycle for everyone but hey your animals come before anyone or thing & as your animals why can't you control them on the race days? loosehead

1:02pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

The stock animals are the reason the Forest exists. Without them it would have become one big Bournemouth aeons ago. On 28th Dec I wrote as follows, trying to explain the reasons they cannot all be rounded up and kept off roads to enable mass cycling events to take over. My third para read as follows:

There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this?

Have you mulled this over? The carers of these creatures are working hard for very little money to maintain the Forest for the nation. How can they find the resources to keep 4,000 or so livestock out of the way of cyclists en masse? The commoning way of life was on a cliff edge at the time of the foot and mouth disease epidemic . Many commoners had to give up. Gradually they have got back to a position where they can - only just - keep the place going. Do some sums and work out how much it would cost, Over 100 commoners, plus four or five men to help each one, taking, say, five hours to locate, drive and corrall the beasts, having spent a day or so constructing the corralls, then another few hours to return the creatures to there usual habitat, plus extra hours spent checking them over for the inevitable damage some of them would suffer.
This is why the animals cannot be " controlled on race days"!

Please try to understand that these are not "your animals", as you call them. In a sense they belong to the whole nation, and are an intrinsic part of the nation's National Park. Huge mass cycling events are a new phenomenon which we are trying to find a way of accommodating. Without understanding on the part of cyclists of this way of life we shall get nowhere.

Get the map out and find a 100 mile route, drive round checking it out for narrow lanes etc., and submit it to Wiggle, together with the suggestion that they pay for a 2-day round-up, and see what they say!
The stock animals are the reason the Forest exists. Without them it would have become one big Bournemouth aeons ago. On 28th Dec I wrote as follows, trying to explain the reasons they cannot all be rounded up and kept off roads to enable mass cycling events to take over. My third para read as follows: There are something like 4,000 ponies, donkeys and cattle, plus pigs in the acorn season, and sheep, all owned by well over 100 commoners. Some have as many as a hundred or two animals, some only a couple or half a dozen. Most know roughly where their stock can be found, but the animals roam free, sometimes congregating on roads, sometimes disappearing into the wooded parts. It would therefore be extremely difficult to make sure no animal was near a hundred miles of road at any particular time. I am not sure , but I believe that they are never all rounded up at once. The drifts take place in various areas at various times. In any case, they [the animals] are a main visitor attraction, so would you say it is reasonable to ask for them to be removed for one particular activity? It would upset the animals, disrupt the whole rhythm of the Forest and would require hundreds of man-hours and the provision of numerous enclosed fields. Would the organisers be willing to pay for all this? Have you mulled this over? The carers of these creatures are working hard for very little money to maintain the Forest for the nation. How can they find the resources to keep 4,000 or so livestock out of the way of cyclists en masse? The commoning way of life was on a cliff edge at the time of the foot and mouth disease epidemic . Many commoners had to give up. Gradually they have got back to a position where they can - only just - keep the place going. Do some sums and work out how much it would cost, Over 100 commoners, plus four or five men to help each one, taking, say, five hours to locate, drive and corrall the beasts, having spent a day or so constructing the corralls, then another few hours to return the creatures to there usual habitat, plus extra hours spent checking them over for the inevitable damage some of them would suffer. This is why the animals cannot be " controlled on race days"! Please try to understand that these are not "your [my] animals", as you call them. In a sense they belong to the whole nation, and are an intrinsic part of the nation's National Park. Huge mass cycling events are a new phenomenon which we are trying to find a way of accommodating. Without understanding on the part of cyclists of this way of life we shall get nowhere. Get the map out and find a 100 mile route, drive round checking it out for narrow lanes etc., and submit it to Wiggle, together with the suggestion that they pay for a 2-day round-up, and see what they say! Reconciler

3:00pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Dan Soton says...

Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo
be.com/ideas/2013/12
/15/conservatives-ne
w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn
ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto
ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
[quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,, Dan Soton

9:16pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Reconciler says...

We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?
We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? Reconciler

6:18pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo

be.com/ideas/2013/12

/15/conservatives-ne

w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn

ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto

ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

====================
===================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo
be.com/ideas/2013/12
/15/conservatives-ne
w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn
ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto
ry.html






,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ==================== =================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,, Dan Soton

6:25pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo

be.com/ideas/2013/12

/15/conservatives-ne

w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn

ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto

ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

==================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo
be.com/ideas/2013/12
/15/conservatives-ne
w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn
ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto
ry.html




,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,, Dan Soton

10:50am Thu 2 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

There are mad ranters on both sides. Reasonable people on both sides are trying to find ways of sharing the roads considerately.

Unfortunately 6,000 riders over many hours of a weekend several times a year, plus numerous other events and more or less constant racing against the clock both in events and via Strava and the like, has brought disruption to a way of life which maintains the New Forest and is causing even the most tolerant and welcoming of folk to protest.

There are some comments from cyclists which show that they understand there are two sides to the argument, but most - like yourself, apparently - simply assume that no cyclist could ever do anything wrong, and that anyone who utters a word of protest about inconsiderate and dangerous riding is a ****, **** or **** (you fill in the horrible words).

Please try to understand that this is a very sensitive area. Without the grazing free-ranging animals this national treasure would very quickly cease to exist.,and these animals have to be cared for by commoners. Some cyclist-ranters consider that commoners have no right to be using their tractors, driving their heifers, carting their hay, hurrying to take lifting tackle to rescue a cow from a bog, training their ponies for cart-driving, moving sheep from field to field, harvesting and carting logs, keeping gorse and bracken under control, providing vetinerary services, rounding up ponies, etc., etc., etc. These activities get in the way of riders whose only objective in life at that moment is to get to the end of a sportive more quickly than last time they rode it, and more quickly than other racers. They expect the necessary work of maintaining the Forest to cease whenever racing cyclists want to take over the roads. Numerous photos on the Sportive Photo website show groups taking up the full width of the carriageway - so much for 2-abreast and single file in the Wiggle instructions! Commoners have a hard enough life as it is, without being abused, or even physically attacked, by huge numbers of aggressive cyclists.
You will probably consider this factual explanation of the situation "a rant". However, ALL the riders need to realise that they cannot expect the roads to be emptied for the sake of a commercial sportive, and should ride accordingly. It is the aggressive riders which are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute. The residents and workers of the Forest are pleased to welcome considerate riders and have done so ever since the invention of the bicycle. Come to enjoy the scenery which we work to provide, maintain, and share, and stop calling us nimbies.

Considerate cyclists, please speak up more loudly! Help to moderate the sportive events so that all road-users can live together peacefully and pleasantly. Residents have tried to cooperate, by parking their cars elsewhere to avoid endangering fast cyclists by exiting on to steep, narrow lanes, or by arranging their day to stay at home for several hours. We've also tried to show good will by allowing use of our limited village hall toilet facilities, and have paid the litter warden to clear up afterwards. For this we get abuse and promises of better behaviour which sound wonderful but are never fulfilled/enforced. Let's try to have sensible negotiation!
There are mad ranters on both sides. Reasonable people on both sides are trying to find ways of sharing the roads considerately. Unfortunately 6,000 riders over many hours of a weekend several times a year, plus numerous other events and more or less constant racing against the clock both in events and via Strava and the like, has brought disruption to a way of life which maintains the New Forest and is causing even the most tolerant and welcoming of folk to protest. There are some comments from cyclists which show that they understand there are two sides to the argument, but most - like yourself, apparently - simply assume that no cyclist could ever do anything wrong, and that anyone who utters a word of protest about inconsiderate and dangerous riding is a ****, **** or **** (you fill in the horrible words). Please try to understand that this is a very sensitive area. Without the grazing free-ranging animals this national treasure would very quickly cease to exist.,and these animals have to be cared for by commoners. Some cyclist-ranters consider that commoners have no right to be using their tractors, driving their heifers, carting their hay, hurrying to take lifting tackle to rescue a cow from a bog, training their ponies for cart-driving, moving sheep from field to field, harvesting and carting logs, keeping gorse and bracken under control, providing vetinerary services, rounding up ponies, etc., etc., etc. These activities get in the way of riders whose only objective in life at that moment is to get to the end of a sportive more quickly than last time they rode it, and more quickly than other racers. They expect the necessary work of maintaining the Forest to cease whenever racing cyclists want to take over the roads. Numerous photos on the Sportive Photo website show groups taking up the full width of the carriageway - so much for 2-abreast and single file in the Wiggle instructions! Commoners have a hard enough life as it is, without being abused, or even physically attacked, by huge numbers of aggressive cyclists. You will probably consider this factual explanation of the situation "a rant". However, ALL the riders need to realise that they cannot expect the roads to be emptied for the sake of a commercial sportive, and should ride accordingly. It is the aggressive riders which are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute. The residents and workers of the Forest are pleased to welcome considerate riders and have done so ever since the invention of the bicycle. Come to enjoy the scenery which we work to provide, maintain, and share, and stop calling us nimbies. Considerate cyclists, please speak up more loudly! Help to moderate the sportive events so that all road-users can live together peacefully and pleasantly. Residents have tried to cooperate, by parking their cars elsewhere to avoid endangering fast cyclists by exiting on to steep, narrow lanes, or by arranging their day to stay at home for several hours. We've also tried to show good will by allowing use of our limited village hall toilet facilities, and have paid the litter warden to clear up afterwards. For this we get abuse and promises of better behaviour which sound wonderful but are never fulfilled/enforced. Let's try to have sensible negotiation! Reconciler

9:09pm Thu 2 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
There are mad ranters on both sides. Reasonable people on both sides are trying to find ways of sharing the roads considerately.

Unfortunately 6,000 riders over many hours of a weekend several times a year, plus numerous other events and more or less constant racing against the clock both in events and via Strava and the like, has brought disruption to a way of life which maintains the New Forest and is causing even the most tolerant and welcoming of folk to protest.

There are some comments from cyclists which show that they understand there are two sides to the argument, but most - like yourself, apparently - simply assume that no cyclist could ever do anything wrong, and that anyone who utters a word of protest about inconsiderate and dangerous riding is a ****, **** or **** (you fill in the horrible words).

Please try to understand that this is a very sensitive area. Without the grazing free-ranging animals this national treasure would very quickly cease to exist.,and these animals have to be cared for by commoners. Some cyclist-ranters consider that commoners have no right to be using their tractors, driving their heifers, carting their hay, hurrying to take lifting tackle to rescue a cow from a bog, training their ponies for cart-driving, moving sheep from field to field, harvesting and carting logs, keeping gorse and bracken under control, providing vetinerary services, rounding up ponies, etc., etc., etc. These activities get in the way of riders whose only objective in life at that moment is to get to the end of a sportive more quickly than last time they rode it, and more quickly than other racers. They expect the necessary work of maintaining the Forest to cease whenever racing cyclists want to take over the roads. Numerous photos on the Sportive Photo website show groups taking up the full width of the carriageway - so much for 2-abreast and single file in the Wiggle instructions! Commoners have a hard enough life as it is, without being abused, or even physically attacked, by huge numbers of aggressive cyclists.
You will probably consider this factual explanation of the situation "a rant". However, ALL the riders need to realise that they cannot expect the roads to be emptied for the sake of a commercial sportive, and should ride accordingly. It is the aggressive riders which are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute. The residents and workers of the Forest are pleased to welcome considerate riders and have done so ever since the invention of the bicycle. Come to enjoy the scenery which we work to provide, maintain, and share, and stop calling us nimbies.

Considerate cyclists, please speak up more loudly! Help to moderate the sportive events so that all road-users can live together peacefully and pleasantly. Residents have tried to cooperate, by parking their cars elsewhere to avoid endangering fast cyclists by exiting on to steep, narrow lanes, or by arranging their day to stay at home for several hours. We've also tried to show good will by allowing use of our limited village hall toilet facilities, and have paid the litter warden to clear up afterwards. For this we get abuse and promises of better behaviour which sound wonderful but are never fulfilled/enforced. Let's try to have sensible negotiation!
so what do you consider me to be? maybe instead of various groups trying to stop these events you go to the likes of the Wiggle organisers show them footage of groups of cyclists breaking Wiggle's rules & ask for more stewards say in cars or on motorbike to either stop these breaches of the rules or at least cut them down to a minimum.
I used to ride a cycle I drive a car & I must admit some cyclists ruin it for the rest of them.
but you say about tractors & herding animals well many,many drivers get really annoyed about roads being blocked off by say sheep or following a slow tractor but common sense has to apply for those instances as it should with cycle events,
reconciler if you agree cycling events should go ahead then before certain groups put in force actions to stop them maybe they should be talking & trying to come to a happy middle ground?
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: There are mad ranters on both sides. Reasonable people on both sides are trying to find ways of sharing the roads considerately. Unfortunately 6,000 riders over many hours of a weekend several times a year, plus numerous other events and more or less constant racing against the clock both in events and via Strava and the like, has brought disruption to a way of life which maintains the New Forest and is causing even the most tolerant and welcoming of folk to protest. There are some comments from cyclists which show that they understand there are two sides to the argument, but most - like yourself, apparently - simply assume that no cyclist could ever do anything wrong, and that anyone who utters a word of protest about inconsiderate and dangerous riding is a ****, **** or **** (you fill in the horrible words). Please try to understand that this is a very sensitive area. Without the grazing free-ranging animals this national treasure would very quickly cease to exist.,and these animals have to be cared for by commoners. Some cyclist-ranters consider that commoners have no right to be using their tractors, driving their heifers, carting their hay, hurrying to take lifting tackle to rescue a cow from a bog, training their ponies for cart-driving, moving sheep from field to field, harvesting and carting logs, keeping gorse and bracken under control, providing vetinerary services, rounding up ponies, etc., etc., etc. These activities get in the way of riders whose only objective in life at that moment is to get to the end of a sportive more quickly than last time they rode it, and more quickly than other racers. They expect the necessary work of maintaining the Forest to cease whenever racing cyclists want to take over the roads. Numerous photos on the Sportive Photo website show groups taking up the full width of the carriageway - so much for 2-abreast and single file in the Wiggle instructions! Commoners have a hard enough life as it is, without being abused, or even physically attacked, by huge numbers of aggressive cyclists. You will probably consider this factual explanation of the situation "a rant". However, ALL the riders need to realise that they cannot expect the roads to be emptied for the sake of a commercial sportive, and should ride accordingly. It is the aggressive riders which are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute. The residents and workers of the Forest are pleased to welcome considerate riders and have done so ever since the invention of the bicycle. Come to enjoy the scenery which we work to provide, maintain, and share, and stop calling us nimbies. Considerate cyclists, please speak up more loudly! Help to moderate the sportive events so that all road-users can live together peacefully and pleasantly. Residents have tried to cooperate, by parking their cars elsewhere to avoid endangering fast cyclists by exiting on to steep, narrow lanes, or by arranging their day to stay at home for several hours. We've also tried to show good will by allowing use of our limited village hall toilet facilities, and have paid the litter warden to clear up afterwards. For this we get abuse and promises of better behaviour which sound wonderful but are never fulfilled/enforced. Let's try to have sensible negotiation![/p][/quote]so what do you consider me to be? maybe instead of various groups trying to stop these events you go to the likes of the Wiggle organisers show them footage of groups of cyclists breaking Wiggle's rules & ask for more stewards say in cars or on motorbike to either stop these breaches of the rules or at least cut them down to a minimum. I used to ride a cycle I drive a car & I must admit some cyclists ruin it for the rest of them. but you say about tractors & herding animals well many,many drivers get really annoyed about roads being blocked off by say sheep or following a slow tractor but common sense has to apply for those instances as it should with cycle events, reconciler if you agree cycling events should go ahead then before certain groups put in force actions to stop them maybe they should be talking & trying to come to a happy middle ground? loosehead

9:44am Fri 3 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Thanks, Loosehead! I admit that I have felt annoyance behind a tractor on a main road at rush hour! However, we are not talking about main roads now, but narrow, twisting country lanes, where tractors are doing essential work and the relationship between them and other local road-users is pretty good, each respecting the other. Unfortunately many Sportive cyclists do not have the same attitude. They have been promised empty roads and seem to think they are entitled to expect to race unhindered. Common sense goes out of the window under the influence of adrenalin and on no account will they acknowledge the necessity to slow down for New Forest workers or allow them their right to a part of the carriageway. These racing riders do not want to share - they simply take over the road and claim it as their right and there are plenty of photos to prove it.

This has been brought to Wiggle's attention.ever since the first Sportive, and discussed in detail. Wiggle have strengthened their code of conduct and shown videos, and the first item of their terms and conditions is: "The participant accepts that the event they are entering is not a race in any format. Results will be published in alphabetical order only and anyone considered to be competing against others, will be stopped from riding and banned from entering future events." However, cycling chat sites and conversation between riders makes quite clear that this is a race. Even you refer to the "race". There was clear proof on 8th October of two teams racing against each other within the event, which Wiggle did not deny, but all they did was remove the timing results "as a precaution". Ample evidence of racing tactics and road blocking is available on the Sportive Photo website. Yet there is nothing to show that Wiggle has stopped anyone from riding or banned anyone.

Their second condition says that participants are responsible for their own behaviour, so Wiggle must feel that they are absolved of any responsibility once they have waved goodbye at the start. Witnesses of bad behaviour cannot report the riders because their identification is too small to read from, say, 25 yards, and Wiggle refuse to provide numbers on riders' backs.

Wiggle make a vast amount of money (£167,000 in entry fees alone in one weekend). Their code of conduct sounds really strict, fair and reasonable but means nothing because they take virtually no steps to enforce it. Marshals are there to ease the passage of participants rather than monitor their conduct and the huge numbers are simply beyond the capacity of New Forest lanes. I can assure you that authorities and interested parties are in conversation with Wiggle, but the many hours they have put into trying to draw up a Charter for Organisers risk being wasted by the intransigence of Wiggle. I still hope for better news.

The happy middle ground has been sought informally every since Sportives started, and formally now for many months. It would help enormously if considerate cyclists could take part in the debate and let their views be known to Wiggle. Very few residents want to see these events stopped. However, they do need to be run in accordance with the law of the land and the New Forest regulations.

By the way, my last reply was to Dan Soton, who is attacking ranters against cycling. Sorry if I gave the impression that I felt you were part of the unreasonable cycling supporters. I have just been trying to give you the facts of the Forest so that you can understand the attitude of reasonable residents. We definitely do not support the tin-tack-spreaders and are working hard to stop such dangerous disruption. However, I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place. I do hope you can understand this.
Thanks, Loosehead! I admit that I have felt annoyance behind a tractor on a main road at rush hour! However, we are not talking about main roads now, but narrow, twisting country lanes, where tractors are doing essential work and the relationship between them and other local road-users is pretty good, each respecting the other. Unfortunately many Sportive cyclists do not have the same attitude. They have been promised empty roads and seem to think they are entitled to expect to race unhindered. Common sense goes out of the window under the influence of adrenalin and on no account will they acknowledge the necessity to slow down for New Forest workers or allow them their right to a part of the carriageway. These racing riders do not want to share - they simply take over the road and claim it as their right and there are plenty of photos to prove it. This has been brought to Wiggle's attention.ever since the first Sportive, and discussed in detail. Wiggle have strengthened their code of conduct and shown videos, and the first item of their terms and conditions is: "The participant accepts that the event they are entering is not a race in any format. Results will be published in alphabetical order only and anyone considered to be competing against others, will be stopped from riding and banned from entering future events." However, cycling chat sites and conversation between riders makes quite clear that this is a race. Even you refer to the "race". There was clear proof on 8th October of two teams racing against each other within the event, which Wiggle did not deny, but all they did was remove the timing results "as a precaution". Ample evidence of racing tactics and road blocking is available on the Sportive Photo website. Yet there is nothing to show that Wiggle has stopped anyone from riding or banned anyone. Their second condition says that participants are responsible for their own behaviour, so Wiggle must feel that they are absolved of any responsibility once they have waved goodbye at the start. Witnesses of bad behaviour cannot report the riders because their identification is too small to read from, say, 25 yards, and Wiggle refuse to provide numbers on riders' backs. Wiggle make a vast amount of money (£167,000 in entry fees alone in one weekend). Their code of conduct sounds really strict, fair and reasonable but means nothing because they take virtually no steps to enforce it. Marshals are there to ease the passage of participants rather than monitor their conduct and the huge numbers are simply beyond the capacity of New Forest lanes. I can assure you that authorities and interested parties are in conversation with Wiggle, but the many hours they have put into trying to draw up a Charter for Organisers risk being wasted by the intransigence of Wiggle. I still hope for better news. The happy middle ground has been sought informally every since Sportives started, and formally now for many months. It would help enormously if considerate cyclists could take part in the debate and let their views be known to Wiggle. Very few residents want to see these events stopped. However, they do need to be run in accordance with the law of the land and the New Forest regulations. By the way, my last reply was to Dan Soton, who is attacking ranters against cycling. Sorry if I gave the impression that I felt you were part of the unreasonable cycling supporters. I have just been trying to give you the facts of the Forest so that you can understand the attitude of reasonable residents. We definitely do not support the tin-tack-spreaders and are working hard to stop such dangerous disruption. However, I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place. I do hope you can understand this. Reconciler

4:21pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo


be.com/ideas/2013/12


/15/conservatives-ne


w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn


ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto


ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

==================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo

be.com/ideas/2013/12

/15/conservatives-ne

w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn

ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto

ry.html




,,
Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant


==================


Clearly you have a few issues..


You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?

You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?

You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.

You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..

You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.

-

Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?

Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."



,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant ================== Clearly you have a few issues.. You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. - Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." ,, Dan Soton

1:27pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

QUOTE : You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage on route, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?
REPLY: More pre-event signage agreed. See below for further ideas.

QUOTE: You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?
REPLY: Look through cycling comment sites online and see the hundreds of foul rants aimed at anyone who dares to make even the mildest of remarks about bad cycling. TV celebrity ranters deserve to be treated with contempt. I know very few people in the Forest with the attitude you suggest. I estimate that 99.9% of Forest residents like and welcome cycling – it is just the enormous, disruptive, mass cycling events that are causing protest from the normally mildest and most tolerant folk.


QUOTE: You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.
REPLY: Couldn’t agree more! A lot of residents would like roads which were gravel tracks before World War 2 when tarmac was spread for tanks, etc., to be restored to gravel track status. If you can help with this, please do so!

QUOTE: You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..
REPLY: Yes, many were holding up traffic, but this is not the main point. Please see previous posts which explain the working life of the National Park, and the reasons for the use of tiny lanes for, say, tractors/4 wheel drives to cart hay and so on, and why this work cannot be set to one side to enable mass cycling events to have unhindered use of this vital network. Every participant has signed up to the Wiggle code of conduct, which includes respecting the Highway Code, not riding more than 2 abreast, and keeping single file on narrow roads. Despite all the photographic evidence (see Sportive Photo website) Wiggle have taken no steps to ban/disqualify those in contravention, as they promise in the first item of their “Terms and Conditions”. Everyone agrees that cars are often driven dangerously, and, believe me, we do our best to address this problem, but this thread is about bad cycling.

QUOTE: You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.
REPLY: Wiggo et al succeeded by using professional team support, on closed roads with good surfaces. Too many MAMILS are now trying to emulate these achievements on pot-holed, open, very narrow lanes with free-ranging (NOT “wild”) animals, and the lowly workers who care for them, in the way. Is it not obvious that this brings many dangerous encounters? And, yes, unfortunately the aggression and foul-mouthed abuse of anyone in their way does bring the name of cycling into disrepute!

QUOTE: Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?
REPLY: Mr Barden’s “adjustments” need to be taken with a pinch of salt! He said that numbers are being CUT by 20%. Look at the Wiggle web site, with maximum 3,000 riders for the 2014 Spring Sportive, as compared with 2,800 previously! What sort of maths is this? He promises “ride single file” notices on dangerous sections: these have been used for five years, and are completely ignored without sanction by Wiggle. He says, “The route will stick to wider roads avoiding where possible narrow single track roads such as Newtown / Minstead.” Can you find a 100 mile route using mainly wider roads? I can’t! He says the rest stops will have additional toilet facilities, but has made the same promise for the last four years. Again, his maths proves inadequate, unable to rise to calculations of numbers of loos needed by 3,000 riders. Villagers showed good will by allowing use of their hall facilities – and look how we were treated, with contempt by riders too impatient to queue for the four loos which were all we had. He says a new “Considerate Riding Video” will be provided. The similar video provided up to now is simply ignored – again, without sanction. Will the riders be made to watch and take a test on the new one? Cycling comments on line demonstrate complete ignorance of, and disrespect for, the workings of the fragile area being used to generate vast income for big business. He says, “Roaming motorbike Marshalls will be employed, to enforce positive rider behaviour. They will have the powers to instantly ban any riders who is seen to be riding inconsiderately.” About 2 marshals every 5 miles would be the minimum to be effective, and can you believe that Wiggle employees would actually lose the company future income by banning the large numbers that disobey Wiggle’s code? To make an appreciable difference POLICE marshals should be provided at Wiggle’s expense. He says, “The size of the bike numbers used for rider identification will be increased further in 2014.” Even if stretched to the full width of the rider, these larger numbers would be scarcely visible on the rider’s front, hidden by arms from the side and only briefly glimpsed from directly head-on. Each rider should wear a large number on his/her back, where it can be seen. Our attempts at peaceful mediation have included this request for years and been refused, presumably because Mr Barden suspects that there would be too many reports of bad behaviour to be dealt with! He promises, “Caution Horse signs as a warning prior to the route passing a stables etc. It would be our hope however, the new route will avoid these where possible.” Unfortunately there are “stables, etc.”, all over the place, so the route could not avoid them, and where these signs have been erected in the past they have made no observable difference to rider behaviour. He says a New Forest charity will be supported. Is this a bribe? Which charity, and why hasn’t this happened before? He says, “We would hope local residents greet the above steps in the way they are meant and give us the chance to implement them fully, as we are confident they will make a significant difference.” Residents feel insulted by this, as Wiggle have already, for a good many years, been given chance after chance for pretty well exactly the same measures to take effect, without any noticeable difference. Indeed the behaviour has, if anything, worsened, and numbers have increased year by year. If Wiggle want yet another chance they need to make better offers than this. Peaceful negotiation needs compromise from both sides (see earlier posts). Virtually all these promises have been made several times before, so please forgive the cynicism we cannot help but feel now. This is why a binding Charter is needed.
QUOTE : You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage on route, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? REPLY: More pre-event signage agreed. See below for further ideas. QUOTE: You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? REPLY: Look through cycling comment sites online and see the hundreds of foul rants aimed at anyone who dares to make even the mildest of remarks about bad cycling. TV celebrity ranters deserve to be treated with contempt. I know very few people in the Forest with the attitude you suggest. I estimate that 99.9% of Forest residents like and welcome cycling – it is just the enormous, disruptive, mass cycling events that are causing protest from the normally mildest and most tolerant folk. QUOTE: You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. REPLY: Couldn’t agree more! A lot of residents would like roads which were gravel tracks before World War 2 when tarmac was spread for tanks, etc., to be restored to gravel track status. If you can help with this, please do so! QUOTE: You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. REPLY: Yes, many were holding up traffic, but this is not the main point. Please see previous posts which explain the working life of the National Park, and the reasons for the use of tiny lanes for, say, tractors/4 wheel drives to cart hay and so on, and why this work cannot be set to one side to enable mass cycling events to have unhindered use of this vital network. Every participant has signed up to the Wiggle code of conduct, which includes respecting the Highway Code, not riding more than 2 abreast, and keeping single file on narrow roads. Despite all the photographic evidence (see Sportive Photo website) Wiggle have taken no steps to ban/disqualify those in contravention, as they promise in the first item of their “Terms and Conditions”. Everyone agrees that cars are often driven dangerously, and, believe me, we do our best to address this problem, but this thread is about bad cycling. QUOTE: You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. REPLY: Wiggo et al succeeded by using professional team support, on closed roads with good surfaces. Too many MAMILS are now trying to emulate these achievements on pot-holed, open, very narrow lanes with free-ranging (NOT “wild”) animals, and the lowly workers who care for them, in the way. Is it not obvious that this brings many dangerous encounters? And, yes, unfortunately the aggression and foul-mouthed abuse of anyone in their way does bring the name of cycling into disrepute! QUOTE: Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? REPLY: Mr Barden’s “adjustments” need to be taken with a pinch of salt! He said that numbers are being CUT by 20%. Look at the Wiggle web site, with maximum 3,000 riders for the 2014 Spring Sportive, as compared with 2,800 previously! What sort of maths is this? He promises “ride single file” notices on dangerous sections: these have been used for five years, and are completely ignored without sanction by Wiggle. He says, “The route will stick to wider roads avoiding where possible narrow single track roads such as Newtown / Minstead.” Can you find a 100 mile route using mainly wider roads? I can’t! He says the rest stops will have additional toilet facilities, but has made the same promise for the last four years. Again, his maths proves inadequate, unable to rise to calculations of numbers of loos needed by 3,000 riders. Villagers showed good will by allowing use of their hall facilities – and look how we were treated, with contempt by riders too impatient to queue for the four loos which were all we had. He says a new “Considerate Riding Video” will be provided. The similar video provided up to now is simply ignored – again, without sanction. Will the riders be made to watch and take a test on the new one? Cycling comments on line demonstrate complete ignorance of, and disrespect for, the workings of the fragile area being used to generate vast income for big business. He says, “Roaming motorbike Marshalls will be employed, to enforce positive rider behaviour. They will have the powers to instantly ban any riders who is seen to be riding inconsiderately.” About 2 marshals every 5 miles would be the minimum to be effective, and can you believe that Wiggle employees would actually lose the company future income by banning the large numbers that disobey Wiggle’s code? To make an appreciable difference POLICE marshals should be provided at Wiggle’s expense. He says, “The size of the bike numbers used for rider identification will be increased further in 2014.” Even if stretched to the full width of the rider, these larger numbers would be scarcely visible on the rider’s front, hidden by arms from the side and only briefly glimpsed from directly head-on. Each rider should wear a large number on his/her back, where it can be seen. Our attempts at peaceful mediation have included this request for years and been refused, presumably because Mr Barden suspects that there would be too many reports of bad behaviour to be dealt with! He promises, “Caution Horse signs as a warning prior to the route passing a stables etc. It would be our hope however, the new route will avoid these where possible.” Unfortunately there are “stables, etc.”, all over the place, so the route could not avoid them, and where these signs have been erected in the past they have made no observable difference to rider behaviour. He says a New Forest charity will be supported. Is this a bribe? Which charity, and why hasn’t this happened before? He says, “We would hope local residents greet the above steps in the way they are meant and give us the chance to implement them fully, as we are confident they will make a significant difference.” Residents feel insulted by this, as Wiggle have already, for a good many years, been given chance after chance for pretty well exactly the same measures to take effect, without any noticeable difference. Indeed the behaviour has, if anything, worsened, and numbers have increased year by year. If Wiggle want yet another chance they need to make better offers than this. Peaceful negotiation needs compromise from both sides (see earlier posts). Virtually all these promises have been made several times before, so please forgive the cynicism we cannot help but feel now. This is why a binding Charter is needed. Reconciler

3:41pm Sat 4 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
QUOTE : You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage on route, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?
REPLY: More pre-event signage agreed. See below for further ideas.

QUOTE: You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?
REPLY: Look through cycling comment sites online and see the hundreds of foul rants aimed at anyone who dares to make even the mildest of remarks about bad cycling. TV celebrity ranters deserve to be treated with contempt. I know very few people in the Forest with the attitude you suggest. I estimate that 99.9% of Forest residents like and welcome cycling – it is just the enormous, disruptive, mass cycling events that are causing protest from the normally mildest and most tolerant folk.


QUOTE: You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.
REPLY: Couldn’t agree more! A lot of residents would like roads which were gravel tracks before World War 2 when tarmac was spread for tanks, etc., to be restored to gravel track status. If you can help with this, please do so!

QUOTE: You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..
REPLY: Yes, many were holding up traffic, but this is not the main point. Please see previous posts which explain the working life of the National Park, and the reasons for the use of tiny lanes for, say, tractors/4 wheel drives to cart hay and so on, and why this work cannot be set to one side to enable mass cycling events to have unhindered use of this vital network. Every participant has signed up to the Wiggle code of conduct, which includes respecting the Highway Code, not riding more than 2 abreast, and keeping single file on narrow roads. Despite all the photographic evidence (see Sportive Photo website) Wiggle have taken no steps to ban/disqualify those in contravention, as they promise in the first item of their “Terms and Conditions”. Everyone agrees that cars are often driven dangerously, and, believe me, we do our best to address this problem, but this thread is about bad cycling.

QUOTE: You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.
REPLY: Wiggo et al succeeded by using professional team support, on closed roads with good surfaces. Too many MAMILS are now trying to emulate these achievements on pot-holed, open, very narrow lanes with free-ranging (NOT “wild”) animals, and the lowly workers who care for them, in the way. Is it not obvious that this brings many dangerous encounters? And, yes, unfortunately the aggression and foul-mouthed abuse of anyone in their way does bring the name of cycling into disrepute!

QUOTE: Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?
REPLY: Mr Barden’s “adjustments” need to be taken with a pinch of salt! He said that numbers are being CUT by 20%. Look at the Wiggle web site, with maximum 3,000 riders for the 2014 Spring Sportive, as compared with 2,800 previously! What sort of maths is this? He promises “ride single file” notices on dangerous sections: these have been used for five years, and are completely ignored without sanction by Wiggle. He says, “The route will stick to wider roads avoiding where possible narrow single track roads such as Newtown / Minstead.” Can you find a 100 mile route using mainly wider roads? I can’t! He says the rest stops will have additional toilet facilities, but has made the same promise for the last four years. Again, his maths proves inadequate, unable to rise to calculations of numbers of loos needed by 3,000 riders. Villagers showed good will by allowing use of their hall facilities – and look how we were treated, with contempt by riders too impatient to queue for the four loos which were all we had. He says a new “Considerate Riding Video” will be provided. The similar video provided up to now is simply ignored – again, without sanction. Will the riders be made to watch and take a test on the new one? Cycling comments on line demonstrate complete ignorance of, and disrespect for, the workings of the fragile area being used to generate vast income for big business. He says, “Roaming motorbike Marshalls will be employed, to enforce positive rider behaviour. They will have the powers to instantly ban any riders who is seen to be riding inconsiderately.” About 2 marshals every 5 miles would be the minimum to be effective, and can you believe that Wiggle employees would actually lose the company future income by banning the large numbers that disobey Wiggle’s code? To make an appreciable difference POLICE marshals should be provided at Wiggle’s expense. He says, “The size of the bike numbers used for rider identification will be increased further in 2014.” Even if stretched to the full width of the rider, these larger numbers would be scarcely visible on the rider’s front, hidden by arms from the side and only briefly glimpsed from directly head-on. Each rider should wear a large number on his/her back, where it can be seen. Our attempts at peaceful mediation have included this request for years and been refused, presumably because Mr Barden suspects that there would be too many reports of bad behaviour to be dealt with! He promises, “Caution Horse signs as a warning prior to the route passing a stables etc. It would be our hope however, the new route will avoid these where possible.” Unfortunately there are “stables, etc.”, all over the place, so the route could not avoid them, and where these signs have been erected in the past they have made no observable difference to rider behaviour. He says a New Forest charity will be supported. Is this a bribe? Which charity, and why hasn’t this happened before? He says, “We would hope local residents greet the above steps in the way they are meant and give us the chance to implement them fully, as we are confident they will make a significant difference.” Residents feel insulted by this, as Wiggle have already, for a good many years, been given chance after chance for pretty well exactly the same measures to take effect, without any noticeable difference. Indeed the behaviour has, if anything, worsened, and numbers have increased year by year. If Wiggle want yet another chance they need to make better offers than this. Peaceful negotiation needs compromise from both sides (see earlier posts). Virtually all these promises have been made several times before, so please forgive the cynicism we cannot help but feel now. This is why a binding Charter is needed.
make them race around the waterside as they'll soon need jobs!
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: QUOTE : You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage on route, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? REPLY: More pre-event signage agreed. See below for further ideas. QUOTE: You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? REPLY: Look through cycling comment sites online and see the hundreds of foul rants aimed at anyone who dares to make even the mildest of remarks about bad cycling. TV celebrity ranters deserve to be treated with contempt. I know very few people in the Forest with the attitude you suggest. I estimate that 99.9% of Forest residents like and welcome cycling – it is just the enormous, disruptive, mass cycling events that are causing protest from the normally mildest and most tolerant folk. QUOTE: You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. REPLY: Couldn’t agree more! A lot of residents would like roads which were gravel tracks before World War 2 when tarmac was spread for tanks, etc., to be restored to gravel track status. If you can help with this, please do so! QUOTE: You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. REPLY: Yes, many were holding up traffic, but this is not the main point. Please see previous posts which explain the working life of the National Park, and the reasons for the use of tiny lanes for, say, tractors/4 wheel drives to cart hay and so on, and why this work cannot be set to one side to enable mass cycling events to have unhindered use of this vital network. Every participant has signed up to the Wiggle code of conduct, which includes respecting the Highway Code, not riding more than 2 abreast, and keeping single file on narrow roads. Despite all the photographic evidence (see Sportive Photo website) Wiggle have taken no steps to ban/disqualify those in contravention, as they promise in the first item of their “Terms and Conditions”. Everyone agrees that cars are often driven dangerously, and, believe me, we do our best to address this problem, but this thread is about bad cycling. QUOTE: You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. REPLY: Wiggo et al succeeded by using professional team support, on closed roads with good surfaces. Too many MAMILS are now trying to emulate these achievements on pot-holed, open, very narrow lanes with free-ranging (NOT “wild”) animals, and the lowly workers who care for them, in the way. Is it not obvious that this brings many dangerous encounters? And, yes, unfortunately the aggression and foul-mouthed abuse of anyone in their way does bring the name of cycling into disrepute! QUOTE: Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? REPLY: Mr Barden’s “adjustments” need to be taken with a pinch of salt! He said that numbers are being CUT by 20%. Look at the Wiggle web site, with maximum 3,000 riders for the 2014 Spring Sportive, as compared with 2,800 previously! What sort of maths is this? He promises “ride single file” notices on dangerous sections: these have been used for five years, and are completely ignored without sanction by Wiggle. He says, “The route will stick to wider roads avoiding where possible narrow single track roads such as Newtown / Minstead.” Can you find a 100 mile route using mainly wider roads? I can’t! He says the rest stops will have additional toilet facilities, but has made the same promise for the last four years. Again, his maths proves inadequate, unable to rise to calculations of numbers of loos needed by 3,000 riders. Villagers showed good will by allowing use of their hall facilities – and look how we were treated, with contempt by riders too impatient to queue for the four loos which were all we had. He says a new “Considerate Riding Video” will be provided. The similar video provided up to now is simply ignored – again, without sanction. Will the riders be made to watch and take a test on the new one? Cycling comments on line demonstrate complete ignorance of, and disrespect for, the workings of the fragile area being used to generate vast income for big business. He says, “Roaming motorbike Marshalls will be employed, to enforce positive rider behaviour. They will have the powers to instantly ban any riders who is seen to be riding inconsiderately.” About 2 marshals every 5 miles would be the minimum to be effective, and can you believe that Wiggle employees would actually lose the company future income by banning the large numbers that disobey Wiggle’s code? To make an appreciable difference POLICE marshals should be provided at Wiggle’s expense. He says, “The size of the bike numbers used for rider identification will be increased further in 2014.” Even if stretched to the full width of the rider, these larger numbers would be scarcely visible on the rider’s front, hidden by arms from the side and only briefly glimpsed from directly head-on. Each rider should wear a large number on his/her back, where it can be seen. Our attempts at peaceful mediation have included this request for years and been refused, presumably because Mr Barden suspects that there would be too many reports of bad behaviour to be dealt with! He promises, “Caution Horse signs as a warning prior to the route passing a stables etc. It would be our hope however, the new route will avoid these where possible.” Unfortunately there are “stables, etc.”, all over the place, so the route could not avoid them, and where these signs have been erected in the past they have made no observable difference to rider behaviour. He says a New Forest charity will be supported. Is this a bribe? Which charity, and why hasn’t this happened before? He says, “We would hope local residents greet the above steps in the way they are meant and give us the chance to implement them fully, as we are confident they will make a significant difference.” Residents feel insulted by this, as Wiggle have already, for a good many years, been given chance after chance for pretty well exactly the same measures to take effect, without any noticeable difference. Indeed the behaviour has, if anything, worsened, and numbers have increased year by year. If Wiggle want yet another chance they need to make better offers than this. Peaceful negotiation needs compromise from both sides (see earlier posts). Virtually all these promises have been made several times before, so please forgive the cynicism we cannot help but feel now. This is why a binding Charter is needed.[/p][/quote]make them race around the waterside as they'll soon need jobs! loosehead

3:57pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Put this to the waterside parish councils. Sorry, I don't understand why "they'll soon need jobs".
Put this to the waterside parish councils. Sorry, I don't understand why "they'll soon need jobs". Reconciler

4:26pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo



be.com/ideas/2013/12



/15/conservatives-ne



w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn



ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto



ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

==================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo


be.com/ideas/2013/12


/15/conservatives-ne


w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn


ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto


ry.html




,,
Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant


==================


Clearly you have a few issues..


You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?

You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?

You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.

You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..

You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.

-

Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?

Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."



,,
Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place


==================


Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though.

I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike.

I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars...


-


BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME.

In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars.

This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries.

With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research.

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/sciencetech/a
rticle-2478404/Bicyc
le-sales-overtake-CA
RS-time-Europe--rece
ssion-blame.html





,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant ================== Clearly you have a few issues.. You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. - Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place ================== Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though. I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike. I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars... - BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME. In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars. This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries. With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research. http://www.dailymail .co.uk/sciencetech/a rticle-2478404/Bicyc le-sales-overtake-CA RS-time-Europe--rece ssion-blame.html ,, Dan Soton

5:08pm Sat 4 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Put this to the waterside parish councils. Sorry, I don't understand why "they'll soon need jobs".
i was just reading a bit about the military port & how cllr harrison was objecting to it sorry
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Put this to the waterside parish councils. Sorry, I don't understand why "they'll soon need jobs".[/p][/quote]i was just reading a bit about the military port & how cllr harrison was objecting to it sorry loosehead

6:06pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

No probs, Loosehead.

Dan Soton: small groups are very welcome indeed - it is 6,000 over one week end that cause problems, especially when a large proportion are aggressively racing. I do hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group" on the tiny narrow, working lanes of the sensitive New Forest. I'm delighted that cycling is increasing, and considerate riders are most welcome at any time.
No probs, Loosehead. Dan Soton: small groups are very welcome indeed - it is 6,000 over one week end that cause problems, especially when a large proportion are aggressively racing. I do hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group" on the tiny narrow, working lanes of the sensitive New Forest. I'm delighted that cycling is increasing, and considerate riders are most welcome at any time. Reconciler

8:29pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo




be.com/ideas/2013/12




/15/conservatives-ne




w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn




ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto




ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

==================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo



be.com/ideas/2013/12



/15/conservatives-ne



w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn



ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto



ry.html




,,
Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant


==================


Clearly you have a few issues..


You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?

You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?

You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.

You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..

You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.

-

Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?

Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."



,,
Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place


==================


Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though.

I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike.

I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars...


-


BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME.

In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars.

This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries.

With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research.

http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/sciencetech/a

rticle-2478404/Bicyc

le-sales-overtake-CA

RS-time-Europe--rece

ssion-blame.html





,,
Reconciler says.. hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group"


==================


There you go again, I'll have to remind you...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."


The New Forest Show would pack up if attracted less than 60,000 visitors a year.. I see they hit 95,000 visitors in 2013

Wiggle organisers have a ballpark figure on what would make a successful event, on the other hand you have none, no figures no target numbers.. only 6,000 is too many.

A total sham with only one purpose and that's to wreck the event.



,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant ================== Clearly you have a few issues.. You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. - Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place ================== Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though. I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike. I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars... - BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME. In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars. This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries. With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research. http://www.dailymail .co.uk/sciencetech/a rticle-2478404/Bicyc le-sales-overtake-CA RS-time-Europe--rece ssion-blame.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group" ================== There you go again, I'll have to remind you... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." The New Forest Show would pack up if attracted less than 60,000 visitors a year.. I see they hit 95,000 visitors in 2013 Wiggle organisers have a ballpark figure on what would make a successful event, on the other hand you have none, no figures no target numbers.. only 6,000 is too many. A total sham with only one purpose and that's to wreck the event. ,, Dan Soton

8:30pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Ash_69 wrote:
Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!!

The are evil

No they are not

Cars own the roads

What about the horses

Or yes the horses they own the roads

Car hit the horses

But cyclists are worse

They wear lycra you know

Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again?

The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump

Birch them ..


Etc Etc etc...
Anti bike/lycra hysteria



I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since..




THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS.

By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013

EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze.

FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD.

In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists."

This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST.

http://www.bostonglo




be.com/ideas/2013/12




/15/conservatives-ne




w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn




ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto




ry.html




TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am

British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash.

Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them.




,,
Reconciler says...


We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help?

==================

Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists..


Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter.

"There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against.

-

http://www.bostonglo



be.com/ideas/2013/12



/15/conservatives-ne



w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn



ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto



ry.html




,,
Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant


==================


Clearly you have a few issues..


You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table?

You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely?

You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al.

You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch..

You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics.

-

Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that?

Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."



,,
Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place


==================


Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though.

I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike.

I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars...


-


BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME.

In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars.

This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries.

With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research.

http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/sciencetech/a

rticle-2478404/Bicyc

le-sales-overtake-CA

RS-time-Europe--rece

ssion-blame.html





,,
Reconciler says.. hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group"


==================


There you go again, I'll have to remind you...

Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."


The New Forest Show would pack up if it attracted less than 60,000 visitors a year.. I see they hit 95,000 visitors in 2013

Wiggle organisers have a ballpark figure on what would make a successful event, on the other hand you have none, no figures no target numbers.. only 6,000 is too many.

A total sham with only one purpose and that's to wreck the event.




,,
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: Ooh Ooh Ooh - Another cycling story!! The are evil No they are not Cars own the roads What about the horses Or yes the horses they own the roads Car hit the horses But cyclists are worse They wear lycra you know Must be weird, who would wear tight fitting clothes for a sport. Now where are my jodhpurs again? The ride on pavements, jump red lights and sometimes ring thier bells behind me making me jump Birch them .. Etc Etc etc...[/p][/quote]Anti bike/lycra hysteria I blame Anti bike crack head Rob Ford, he kicked all this anti-bike sentiment off back in 2007, our salad tosser chef James Martin picked it up in 2009 and its been going around the world ever since.. THE BICYCLE IS EMERGING AS A NEW CONSERVATIVE FRONT IN THE CULTURE WARS. By Jordan Michael Smith DECEMBER 15, 2013 EVEN BEFORE TORONTO MAYOR Rob Ford became internationally famous for being videotaped smoking crack, he was known as a City Hall version of Bluto Blutarsky of "Animal House"—swearing in public, proudly overeating, guzzling booze. FORD RESERVES SPECIAL VENOM FOR THE MENACE CALLED THE BICYCLE. HE IS PERHAPS THE MOST ANTIBIKE POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD. In 2007, he told the Toronto City Council that roads were designed for only buses, cars, and trucks. IF CYCLISTS GOT KILLED ON ROADS, "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY," HE SAID. He compared biking on a city street to swimming with sharks—"sooner or later you're going to get bitten." He once summarized his views in City Hall succinctly: "Cyclists are a pain in the **** to the motorists." This all might seem kind of crazy—the rantings of an unmuzzled Canadian demagogue better known for his disastrous personal habits. But in his antipathy for bikes, Ford appears to be part of a trend. Particularly in America, the bicycle is emerging as a new conservative front in the culture wars. In May, Wall Street Journal commentator Dorothy Rabinowitz called bicyclists "the most important danger in the city"; in Colorado's last governor's election, a Republican candidate said a local bike-sharing program "could threaten our personal freedoms." A columnist for the conservative Washington Times declared D.C. bike-sharing programs to be "broken-down socialism"; radio pundit RUSH LIMBAUGH SAID HE "WON'T CARE" IF HIS CAR DOOR KNOCKS OVER A CYCLIST. http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html TV CHEF JAMES MARTIN COOKS UP A STORM WITH ANTI-CYCLING REMARKS Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10.08am British TV chef James Martin, who caused uproar with a newspaper column that said he hates cyclists and caused a group of riders to crash. Martin wrote in his review of a Tesla Roadstar electric car: "God, I hate those cyclists. Every last herbal tea-drinking, Harriet Harman-voting one of them. ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says... We are trying to get some sensible suggestions for working together to accommodate cycling events in an extremely sensitive area. How does this help? ================== Here's a suggestion, if you care to read the whole article you will find it's not just about politicians winning votes by cracking down on cyclists and the mad rantings of media pundits.. there's an underlying message, a wind of change that gives hope to my fellow cyclists.. Quote... It might seem frustrating for bike supporters, but there is one consolation: In politics, you get attacked because you matter. "There's been a huge increase" in the number of bikers, "The love affair with the car is over for young people." After decades of unquestioned, highway-sponsored dominance of cars, bikes are finally becoming—even if just on the margins—something big enough to push against. - http://www.bostonglo be.com/ideas/2013/12 /15/conservatives-ne w-enemy-bikes/NoLMjn ocHg28jZ4hw3F4oI/sto ry.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. You will probably consider this a rant ================== Clearly you have a few issues.. You say let's try to have a sensible negotiation.. Wiggle have already made adjustments to ease local tensions... personally I would've liked to have seen more pre event signage onroute, Reconciler did you have any of your own peace solutions to bring to the table? You say there are mad ranters on both sides.. I take it your acknowledging there are mad ranters who wish cyclists harm and are unlikely to ever allow cyclists the right to travel through the New Forest unhindered/safely? You say residents do their best to avoid endangering fast cyclists.. nothing would please me more if those same residents agreed to have all the New Forests minor roads permanently restricted to 20mph for Cars/Bikes et al. You say you have numerous photos showing cyclists taking up the full width of the carriageway.. were they holding up traffic, what's your point?, I have numerous memories of cars two abreast overtaking/headings towards me leaving me perilously close to ending up in a New Forest ditch.. You say aggressive riders are bringing the name of cycling into disrepute.. only in your mind and out of the mouths of a few unsavoury vote chasing politicians, the aggressive riders I'm thinking of hauled in 8 Gold medals for Team GB at the 2012 Summer Olympics. - Again, Wiggle organiser Martin Barden said adjustments to ease local tensions have been made, the event will run within official guidelines.. can we not leave it at that? Reconciler, your idea of sensible negotiations reminds me of... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. I do sense that indignation is reaching boiling point and we need to take sensible action before serious confrontation takes place ================== Reconciler you have amazing senses.. at odds with your understanding of cycling trends though. I'd say.. probably over 80% of cyclists on the roads today as children worked or/and saved up (or like me manufactured a bike from rusting parts found on local dumps) to buy their first bike. I'd also say.. over 95% of us cycle in the New Forest for recreational purposes, Reconciler instead of trying to over control a small group of us your time would be better served (if the below research is anything to go by) preparing yourself and the New Forest for more Cyclists and for less people who are wholly reliant on their Cars... - BICYCLE SALES OVERTAKE CARS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN EUROPE - AND THE RECESSION IS TO BLAME. In the UK, more than 3 million bikes were sold in 2012 compared to just over 2 million passenger cars. This trend was seen across 23 of the European member countries. With car sales dropping across Europe, the bicycle is becoming the preferred mode of transport for almost every member state, according to new research. http://www.dailymail .co.uk/sciencetech/a rticle-2478404/Bicyc le-sales-overtake-CA RS-time-Europe--rece ssion-blame.html ,,[/p][/quote]Reconciler says.. hope you understand that 6,000 does not constitute a "small group" ================== There you go again, I'll have to remind you... Quote John F. Kennedy.. "You cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." The New Forest Show would pack up if it attracted less than 60,000 visitors a year.. I see they hit 95,000 visitors in 2013 Wiggle organisers have a ballpark figure on what would make a successful event, on the other hand you have none, no figures no target numbers.. only 6,000 is too many. A total sham with only one purpose and that's to wreck the event. ,, Dan Soton

9:45pm Sat 4 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

It is not for me to set the acceptable figure. A liaison group (numerous cycling organisations with various New Forest authorities and societies) has been working on this for many months, and the conclusion has yet to be announced.
It is not for me to set the acceptable figure. A liaison group (numerous cycling organisations with various New Forest authorities and societies) has been working on this for many months, and the conclusion has yet to be announced. Reconciler

4:30pm Tue 7 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

Reconsiler, I have enjoyed reading most of your posts as you seem to be up for a proper debate, A lot of cyclists appear uptight and controntational because most posters on your side are largely ill informed ignorant and just joining in for the sake of it. I really enjoyed my ride on the sunday and really hope to do it again, As its nice to ride with other cyclists and have little chats. I rode the 102 course with a steady average of 15mph, a lot of cyclists overtook me and I overtook a lot of others, Im sorry if at that point I appeared to be riding two abreast But I promise I was riding alone.

Fortunatly my course never took me to the area of poogate so I cant really comment but at the one stop I made at Blissford hill there was not more that 15 people so the facilities were adequate at that time.

I never saw any of what you and many others alledged to have happened and believe me if I had I would of reported it.

I did see a few groups going for it and they were all wearing matching tops so I presume were from a club, That is what needs to be banned (not matching tops but the Pentalon style riding) as they are the ones most people comment about.

I saw the New forest Cycle club (I think but NF is right) were doing a time trial going the other way, That was bad planning on both sides to share a route, They were going VERY fast on their posh bikes with aero bars etc.

You mentioned

"They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes."

can you see the other side, little lanes are perfect for cycling as the speed of cars is generly slower and the amount of traffic affected is minimum as apposed to affecting major arteries all day.

You also sugest about speeding cycles, I dont believe for a minute that many if any cyclists were going above 40 mph Also you say some people do it in 4+ hours and some even take 7+, I bet most take well over seven hours.

You have to understand that 75% of people on here complaining were not affected in anyway and just enjoy winding up cyclists they still keep going on about red lights and pavements which as you know are pretty rare in the forest.

On a side note you say NFDC unemployment figures are pretty low, Do you know what they are.
Reconsiler, I have enjoyed reading most of your posts as you seem to be up for a proper debate, A lot of cyclists appear uptight and controntational because most posters on your side are largely ill informed ignorant and just joining in for the sake of it. I really enjoyed my ride on the sunday and really hope to do it again, As its nice to ride with other cyclists and have little chats. I rode the 102 course with a steady average of 15mph, a lot of cyclists overtook me and I overtook a lot of others, Im sorry if at that point I appeared to be riding two abreast But I promise I was riding alone. Fortunatly my course never took me to the area of poogate so I cant really comment but at the one stop I made at Blissford hill there was not more that 15 people so the facilities were adequate at that time. I never saw any of what you and many others alledged to have happened and believe me if I had I would of reported it. I did see a few groups going for it and they were all wearing matching tops so I presume were from a club, That is what needs to be banned (not matching tops but the Pentalon style riding) as they are the ones most people comment about. I saw the New forest Cycle club (I think but NF is right) were doing a time trial going the other way, That was bad planning on both sides to share a route, They were going VERY fast on their posh bikes with aero bars etc. You mentioned "They use the course which has deliberately been laid out on unsuitable little lanes." can you see the other side, little lanes are perfect for cycling as the speed of cars is generly slower and the amount of traffic affected is minimum as apposed to affecting major arteries all day. You also sugest about speeding cycles, I dont believe for a minute that many if any cyclists were going above 40 mph Also you say some people do it in 4+ hours and some even take 7+, I bet most take well over seven hours. You have to understand that 75% of people on here complaining were not affected in anyway and just enjoy winding up cyclists they still keep going on about red lights and pavements which as you know are pretty rare in the forest. On a side note you say NFDC unemployment figures are pretty low, Do you know what they are. southamptonadi

5:55pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures.

Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time.

Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours.

The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast!

Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches.

I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area.
Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel!
In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures. Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time. Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours. The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast! Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches. I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area. Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel! Reconciler

6:15pm Tue 7 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures.

Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time.

Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours.

The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast!

Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches.

I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area.
Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel!
reconciler there are one or two anti cycling posts on this page but I've read posters saying how they'd sabotage cyclists & really ripping into them.
I watched ITV local news yesterday where some woman was so anti cycling events it was unbelievable but they also had the organiser of the Wiggle event & what he said is true.
he said it's a National Park which means it's for the Nation not just a few residents who don't want to share it with any one
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures. Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time. Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours. The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast! Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches. I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area. Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel![/p][/quote]reconciler there are one or two anti cycling posts on this page but I've read posters saying how they'd sabotage cyclists & really ripping into them. I watched ITV local news yesterday where some woman was so anti cycling events it was unbelievable but they also had the organiser of the Wiggle event & what he said is true. he said it's a National Park which means it's for the Nation not just a few residents who don't want to share it with any one loosehead

6:56pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Yes, there are anti-cycling ranters, and these have been quoted over and over again on this thread by cyclists, who mainly try to transfer the blame to bad drivers. Yes, Mr Barden's remark about the Forest being for the whole nation and not just for residents is also true. However, this ignores the reason for the existence of National Parks, which is not for everybody to use for whatever activity they choose, but to conserve it for everyone to enjoy its special qualities. There is a very big difference here. In the case of the New Forest Wiggle events a large proportion of the riders are there to enjoy its special qualities, but are very considerably hindering the specialised work of caring for it. Please see my previous posts explaining the sensitive nature of this 24/7 work. All we are asking for is respect and consideration, which means people racing against the clock will have to take longer to complete the course. Is that so much to ask? We want to share it with the nation, not keep it for ourselves. But please recognise that it is very special and stage events that respect it. And part of the enjoyment should be stopping to allow, say, half a dozen ponies being taken along the road to the next field, and maybe getting the commoner to explain why he is doing this.
Yes, there are anti-cycling ranters, and these have been quoted over and over again on this thread by cyclists, who mainly try to transfer the blame to bad drivers. Yes, Mr Barden's remark about the Forest being for the whole nation and not just for residents is also true. However, this ignores the reason for the existence of National Parks, which is not for everybody to use for whatever activity they choose, but to conserve it for everyone to enjoy its special qualities. There is a very big difference here. In the case of the New Forest Wiggle events a large proportion of the riders are there to enjoy its special qualities, but are very considerably hindering the specialised work of caring for it. Please see my previous posts explaining the sensitive nature of this 24/7 work. All we are asking for is respect and consideration, which means people racing against the clock will have to take longer to complete the course. Is that so much to ask? We want to share it with the nation, not keep it for ourselves. But please recognise that it is very special and stage events that respect it. And part of the enjoyment should be stopping to allow, say, half a dozen ponies being taken along the road to the next field, and maybe getting the commoner to explain why he is doing this. Reconciler

6:59pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Sorry, one and all, I've just realised I've omitted a crucial "not" in the tenth line of my previous post.
Sorry, one and all, I've just realised I've omitted a crucial "not" in the tenth line of my previous post. Reconciler

8:44pm Tue 7 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

Reconciler wrote:
In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures.

Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time.

Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours.

The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast!

Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches.

I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area.
Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel!
Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists
answer - go through and read the other 100 stories about cyclists and you will see why they are uptight. There has also been a lot of lies about the event which I have already proven to the police after contacting the investigating officer, The lies dont help the situation at all. It just winds people up and gives us a bad name.

Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos
Answer - please put it out into the public domain so we can all have a look. but you cant say they are all 100% factual, not because I dont believe you but you dont know Unless you witnessed every incident aswell.

The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear
Answer - after this please can you contact sustrans and tell them not to use any small quiet roads for the national cycle network, of which also go through the forest, beacuse the whole route usess them for many reasons, they are the best and safest roads to be on, Please trust me on that I have cycled many NCN all over the country I even cycled from john o groats to lands end and cycle 1000's miles every year (and drive). but personally I would rather be on an A road much smoother and faster. When i mean fast i average 15mph everywhere I go over every distance, its weird I know.


To be honest I see where you are coming from with small groups racing, but I cant see how the time results can prove anything unless the police know who was riding with who, as im sre my time was simular to a few others but I dont know who they are. with the amount of riders it will happen. But if they have removed them for that reason I cant condone that. BUt as you say several dozen doing it in less than five hours does not and cannot prove anything surely you realize that. Just as in any sport some people will be elitist and are just simply good at what they do but 50 out of 3000 is probaly right on the averages. Me on the other hand whist I cant go that fast and can keep on going for as long as I need to.

Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light
answer - I feel the residents may be slightly Elaborating on the facts. I stopped at the red light and did not see a single RLJ'er, I remember being amazed as that is a pet hate of mine, on discussing it with close freinds after, none of them saw anyone do it either, I wont say no one did A, as I was not there all day and B, Someone must of there is always idiots that do.

traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this
Answer - You will find that in normal day to day riding not many cyclists will use them as they are (definatly in citys and towns) full of rubbish and broken glass etc as on the road cars crush the glass and it naturly gets swept to the edge, Many cyclists report that on exit they are in collision course with vehicles that are swerving back and this is quite dangerous, Many cycling facilities are more dangerous than safe, I dont know which bit your talking about but just putting the average cyclists mind set out there for you. near me there is one and its 5 cm wide I dont use it either.

Oh just quickly im local and my freinds and I regulary cycle on the forest road and love it, the wiggle took us places that we never knew existed. Ive lived near the forest all my life and camp at the forest holiday sites at least 5 times a year since I was born, I know most of it quite well but It made It a pleasant ride.

After reading many of your posts I really can see where your coming from, there needs to be more constructive debates over this and I do wish when aproached by the media martin would not hide behind no comment.

I am going to ride with a camera next time so I can show people my side where I have a lovelly ride and Dont see any of these things, I would hapily hand it over to the police and uk cycling events as eveidence to ban people if there was anything on there.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: In Forest North West, where I live, the Oct 2013 unemployment figure is 0.7%. The highest figure in the NF area is 2.2% - in the more industrial Dibden and Hythe partly outside the Park. The average is little over 1%. NFDC figures. Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists! It does give the impression that anyone who dares to utter even the mildest adverse opinion of the behaviour of cyclists is considered to be total scum against all cyclists. I have tried to be reasonable and to explain the working life of the Forest, so that people from towns can understand why care and respect is needed when riding through it. I ask you to believe me when I say that I do know that complaints about dreadful cycling behaviour in these events are completely justified. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos. As a whole I know the residents and commoners to be pretty laid back and tolerant and they actually like to see people on bikes enjoying the scenery they work so hard to maintain, It is just very upsetting to receive no consideration of their need to use the working lanes and to get horrid abuse for "being in the way". The little lanes are not able to cope with 3,000 riders on one day (6,000 on 2-way parts of the route) and on some other chat sites even the cyclists are grumbling about the congestion with slower riders holding them up. The major problem is that a great proportion of the participants are there to race. They are quite open about this on line. The competition and adrenalin get them going and they can think about nothing other than getting a good time. Regarding times, the recent results have been removed on line because Wiggle have realised that they offer evidence of racing and the police have been asked to investigate a race between two teams within the October sportive. However, you can still look through 2011 results and see that there are several dozen doing the Epic in less than 5 hours - an average speed of approx 23mph, which means that at times they need to be doing 30+ mph. Again, you can see that only a few took more than 7 hours. The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear. Locals tend to avoid them because of the lack of vision round sharp bends and little room to avoid cars - of which there are surprisingly many because of the dense population of the Forest and the maintenance workers carrying out their daily routine. The racing riders are misled by the Wiggle advertising into expecting empty roads, so feel free to ride round RH bends on the RH side of the road. I have personally sat beside such a downhill bend on a steep hill with a cattle grid just before it and witnessed half a dozen near misses in about half an hour, with slow on-coming cars hugging their LH bend having to stop to allow fast riders to swerve dangerously round them. No local rider rides down that hill so fast! Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light. We do have pinch-points with "Give way" signs, to slow traffic on commuter routes through villages. My village was so concerned about danger to cyclists if they had to ride round the outside of the traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this, preferring to ride aggressively at oncoming vehicles to force them to give up their right of way past the island. Again, I can vouch for this personally, having monitored behaviour there. My heart was in my mouth once or twice as cyclists missed oncoming cars by a few inches. I'm very glad you enjoyed your ride, and I'm sure you weren't among the culprits. Look through the thousands of Sportive Photo pictures of the October event and see how often the total carriageway is taken up by cyclists riding fast, sometimes as many as 6-7 abreast in big threatening groups. It is this behaviour which is unsuitable for this very sensitive area. Please come to enjoy and appreciate it, not just to race through it seeing little more than the tarmac by the front wheel![/p][/quote]Looking through the thread, the vast majority of grumbles come from cyclists answer - go through and read the other 100 stories about cyclists and you will see why they are uptight. There has also been a lot of lies about the event which I have already proven to the police after contacting the investigating officer, The lies dont help the situation at all. It just winds people up and gives us a bad name. Parish councils have received several hundred reports, very few of them "ranting", setting out factual details of dangerous and inconsiderate instances, some supported by photos Answer - please put it out into the public domain so we can all have a look. but you cant say they are all 100% factual, not because I dont believe you but you dont know Unless you witnessed every incident aswell. The little lanes are not as perfect for cycling as would appear Answer - after this please can you contact sustrans and tell them not to use any small quiet roads for the national cycle network, of which also go through the forest, beacuse the whole route usess them for many reasons, they are the best and safest roads to be on, Please trust me on that I have cycled many NCN all over the country I even cycled from john o groats to lands end and cycle 1000's miles every year (and drive). but personally I would rather be on an A road much smoother and faster. When i mean fast i average 15mph everywhere I go over every distance, its weird I know. To be honest I see where you are coming from with small groups racing, but I cant see how the time results can prove anything unless the police know who was riding with who, as im sre my time was simular to a few others but I dont know who they are. with the amount of riders it will happen. But if they have removed them for that reason I cant condone that. BUt as you say several dozen doing it in less than five hours does not and cannot prove anything surely you realize that. Just as in any sport some people will be elitist and are just simply good at what they do but 50 out of 3000 is probaly right on the averages. Me on the other hand whist I cant go that fast and can keep on going for as long as I need to. Regarding red lights, I agree we have very few. However, last year there was a section of road works at Hale subject to traffic light control and nearby residents reported that tmost of the event cyclists simply ignored a red light answer - I feel the residents may be slightly Elaborating on the facts. I stopped at the red light and did not see a single RLJ'er, I remember being amazed as that is a pet hate of mine, on discussing it with close freinds after, none of them saw anyone do it either, I wont say no one did A, as I was not there all day and B, Someone must of there is always idiots that do. traffic island that we insisted on a safety space being kept open close to the kerb for cyclists. However, few event cyclists use this Answer - You will find that in normal day to day riding not many cyclists will use them as they are (definatly in citys and towns) full of rubbish and broken glass etc as on the road cars crush the glass and it naturly gets swept to the edge, Many cyclists report that on exit they are in collision course with vehicles that are swerving back and this is quite dangerous, Many cycling facilities are more dangerous than safe, I dont know which bit your talking about but just putting the average cyclists mind set out there for you. near me there is one and its 5 cm wide I dont use it either. Oh just quickly im local and my freinds and I regulary cycle on the forest road and love it, the wiggle took us places that we never knew existed. Ive lived near the forest all my life and camp at the forest holiday sites at least 5 times a year since I was born, I know most of it quite well but It made It a pleasant ride. After reading many of your posts I really can see where your coming from, there needs to be more constructive debates over this and I do wish when aproached by the media martin would not hide behind no comment. I am going to ride with a camera next time so I can show people my side where I have a lovelly ride and Dont see any of these things, I would hapily hand it over to the police and uk cycling events as eveidence to ban people if there was anything on there. southamptonadi

9:01pm Tue 7 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Reconciler wrote:
Yes, there are anti-cycling ranters, and these have been quoted over and over again on this thread by cyclists, who mainly try to transfer the blame to bad drivers. Yes, Mr Barden's remark about the Forest being for the whole nation and not just for residents is also true. However, this ignores the reason for the existence of National Parks, which is not for everybody to use for whatever activity they choose, but to conserve it for everyone to enjoy its special qualities. There is a very big difference here. In the case of the New Forest Wiggle events a large proportion of the riders are there to enjoy its special qualities, but are very considerably hindering the specialised work of caring for it. Please see my previous posts explaining the sensitive nature of this 24/7 work. All we are asking for is respect and consideration, which means people racing against the clock will have to take longer to complete the course. Is that so much to ask? We want to share it with the nation, not keep it for ourselves. But please recognise that it is very special and stage events that respect it. And part of the enjoyment should be stopping to allow, say, half a dozen ponies being taken along the road to the next field, and maybe getting the commoner to explain why he is doing this.
so why move them when they know a "race" cycling event is taking place?
sounds to me it's more like " we live here we want to do it so b+gger any one else"
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Yes, there are anti-cycling ranters, and these have been quoted over and over again on this thread by cyclists, who mainly try to transfer the blame to bad drivers. Yes, Mr Barden's remark about the Forest being for the whole nation and not just for residents is also true. However, this ignores the reason for the existence of National Parks, which is not for everybody to use for whatever activity they choose, but to conserve it for everyone to enjoy its special qualities. There is a very big difference here. In the case of the New Forest Wiggle events a large proportion of the riders are there to enjoy its special qualities, but are very considerably hindering the specialised work of caring for it. Please see my previous posts explaining the sensitive nature of this 24/7 work. All we are asking for is respect and consideration, which means people racing against the clock will have to take longer to complete the course. Is that so much to ask? We want to share it with the nation, not keep it for ourselves. But please recognise that it is very special and stage events that respect it. And part of the enjoyment should be stopping to allow, say, half a dozen ponies being taken along the road to the next field, and maybe getting the commoner to explain why he is doing this.[/p][/quote]so why move them when they know a "race" cycling event is taking place? sounds to me it's more like " we live here we want to do it so b+gger any one else" loosehead

9:28pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Thank you very much - it is lovely to have a constructive debate. I do know that most riders see nothing of the problems the events cause. They sweep through smoothly ignoring others trying to use the road and can't understand what all the fuss is about However, witnesses do have to be taken seriously. How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me? I, and other people who have received the reports, know the people writing them, and have no cause to doubt what they say. Almost none are exaggerating ranters. The Police should be interviewing witnesses - they are used to sniffing out liars. I apologise for mentioning the Hale red light incident, as I only have those reports third hand - I was just trying to answer your point.

Regarding the pinch points, I can't speak for other villages but in my own the cycle space is kept swept clean most of the year, but I admit it gets mucky in winter. However, I am obliged to confess a pet dislike of complaints about stones, mud and animal droppings on Forest roads - they shouldn't use road racing tyres if they aren't robust enough for riding through what is in effect one big open farm! Confession over. I'm an ex-cyclist and appreciate those who enjoy it - so long as they are considerate of other road-users. I really don't think that the pinch point I know causes trouble for cyclists when they use the space kept for them. I try to speak from personal knowledge gained from observation, and I would say the layout doesn't oblige cars to swerve in sharply afterwards.

It is great to hear you enjoy riding in the Forest, and I look forward to your video! You are obviously the sort of rider we locals love to see enjoying the place and appreciating it.
Thank you very much - it is lovely to have a constructive debate. I do know that most riders see nothing of the problems the events cause. They sweep through smoothly ignoring others trying to use the road and can't understand what all the fuss is about However, witnesses do have to be taken seriously. How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me? I, and other people who have received the reports, know the people writing them, and have no cause to doubt what they say. Almost none are exaggerating ranters. The Police should be interviewing witnesses - they are used to sniffing out liars. I apologise for mentioning the Hale red light incident, as I only have those reports third hand - I was just trying to answer your point. Regarding the pinch points, I can't speak for other villages but in my own the cycle space is kept swept clean most of the year, but I admit it gets mucky in winter. However, I am obliged to confess a pet dislike of complaints about stones, mud and animal droppings on Forest roads - they shouldn't use road racing tyres if they aren't robust enough for riding through what is in effect one big open farm! Confession over. I'm an ex-cyclist and appreciate those who enjoy it - so long as they are considerate of other road-users. I really don't think that the pinch point I know causes trouble for cyclists when they use the space kept for them. I try to speak from personal knowledge gained from observation, and I would say the layout doesn't oblige cars to swerve in sharply afterwards. It is great to hear you enjoy riding in the Forest, and I look forward to your video! You are obviously the sort of rider we locals love to see enjoying the place and appreciating it. Reconciler

10:02pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Ginger_cyclist says...

Reconciler wrote:
Thank you very much - it is lovely to have a constructive debate. I do know that most riders see nothing of the problems the events cause. They sweep through smoothly ignoring others trying to use the road and can't understand what all the fuss is about However, witnesses do have to be taken seriously. How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me? I, and other people who have received the reports, know the people writing them, and have no cause to doubt what they say. Almost none are exaggerating ranters. The Police should be interviewing witnesses - they are used to sniffing out liars. I apologise for mentioning the Hale red light incident, as I only have those reports third hand - I was just trying to answer your point.

Regarding the pinch points, I can't speak for other villages but in my own the cycle space is kept swept clean most of the year, but I admit it gets mucky in winter. However, I am obliged to confess a pet dislike of complaints about stones, mud and animal droppings on Forest roads - they shouldn't use road racing tyres if they aren't robust enough for riding through what is in effect one big open farm! Confession over. I'm an ex-cyclist and appreciate those who enjoy it - so long as they are considerate of other road-users. I really don't think that the pinch point I know causes trouble for cyclists when they use the space kept for them. I try to speak from personal knowledge gained from observation, and I would say the layout doesn't oblige cars to swerve in sharply afterwards.

It is great to hear you enjoy riding in the Forest, and I look forward to your video! You are obviously the sort of rider we locals love to see enjoying the place and appreciating it.
Just because you know someone, doesn't mean they're not lying to you out of their arse.
[quote][p][bold]Reconciler[/bold] wrote: Thank you very much - it is lovely to have a constructive debate. I do know that most riders see nothing of the problems the events cause. They sweep through smoothly ignoring others trying to use the road and can't understand what all the fuss is about However, witnesses do have to be taken seriously. How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me? I, and other people who have received the reports, know the people writing them, and have no cause to doubt what they say. Almost none are exaggerating ranters. The Police should be interviewing witnesses - they are used to sniffing out liars. I apologise for mentioning the Hale red light incident, as I only have those reports third hand - I was just trying to answer your point. Regarding the pinch points, I can't speak for other villages but in my own the cycle space is kept swept clean most of the year, but I admit it gets mucky in winter. However, I am obliged to confess a pet dislike of complaints about stones, mud and animal droppings on Forest roads - they shouldn't use road racing tyres if they aren't robust enough for riding through what is in effect one big open farm! Confession over. I'm an ex-cyclist and appreciate those who enjoy it - so long as they are considerate of other road-users. I really don't think that the pinch point I know causes trouble for cyclists when they use the space kept for them. I try to speak from personal knowledge gained from observation, and I would say the layout doesn't oblige cars to swerve in sharply afterwards. It is great to hear you enjoy riding in the Forest, and I look forward to your video! You are obviously the sort of rider we locals love to see enjoying the place and appreciating it.[/p][/quote]Just because you know someone, doesn't mean they're not lying to you out of their arse. Ginger_cyclist

10:12pm Tue 7 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me

I dont know either way but without eveidence i cant call you a liar Im the type of person that will trust someone untill they do something to lose it its the only way. I can only comment on what I know and that is Five cyclists at different times did not see a single RLJ'er and I do believe them so the statment is incorrect as the odds that the only time no one did it when me and my freinds were there are slim. I was there with quite a few riders and so were my freinds.

I know where your coming from but you cant call the public highway an open farm because its not dont forget farmers leave themselves liable for prosecution if they leave mud on the road,(I know theres more to it, I)and for the record I have NEVER asked for this or tried to get a farmer told off (as i used to do it when I spent a summer on hay and straw duty. but I mention it because It seems that you feel its one big farm , But my 23mm wide tyres are fine in the forest, Touch wood never had a puncture there ever. I can steer round or slow down for obstructions, Im used to cycling in the pot holled city of southampton.

No where else in the country give these rides so much bad press. Yes the forest one is proberly the biggest but Uk cycling events I beleive are local, so it would be,

I do know many people especially through CTC wont do these events because of all the bad press (justifeid or not)

I wish your fellow foresters felt the same about us nice cyclists as its a pain riding at night, they can clearly see me yet chose to carry on with main beam so Im blind for ages, Disclaimer, I cant prove either way where they live but it happens more in the forest than anywhere else, to me anyway.

When you say about factual complaints please talk about what you know and not in general as there have been many compaints that are not quite truthfull.
How, for instance, do you know that I am telling the truth about what I saw? Do you think you can believe me I dont know either way but without eveidence i cant call you a liar Im the type of person that will trust someone untill they do something to lose it its the only way. I can only comment on what I know and that is Five cyclists at different times did not see a single RLJ'er and I do believe them so the statment is incorrect as the odds that the only time no one did it when me and my freinds were there are slim. I was there with quite a few riders and so were my freinds. I know where your coming from but you cant call the public highway an open farm because its not dont forget farmers leave themselves liable for prosecution if they leave mud on the road,(I know theres more to it, I)and for the record I have NEVER asked for this or tried to get a farmer told off (as i used to do it when I spent a summer on hay and straw duty. but I mention it because It seems that you feel its one big farm , But my 23mm wide tyres are fine in the forest, Touch wood never had a puncture there ever. I can steer round or slow down for obstructions, Im used to cycling in the pot holled city of southampton. No where else in the country give these rides so much bad press. Yes the forest one is proberly the biggest but Uk cycling events I beleive are local, so it would be, I do know many people especially through CTC wont do these events because of all the bad press (justifeid or not) I wish your fellow foresters felt the same about us nice cyclists as its a pain riding at night, they can clearly see me yet chose to carry on with main beam so Im blind for ages, Disclaimer, I cant prove either way where they live but it happens more in the forest than anywhere else, to me anyway. When you say about factual complaints please talk about what you know and not in general as there have been many compaints that are not quite truthfull. southamptonadi

10:25pm Tue 7 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

I like these events just like the sky rides as it gets people that arent quite confident to ride on roads and people who are new to cycling out there cycling, And the more cyclists the better for everyone, Less traffic on the commute is a big plus.
I like these events just like the sky rides as it gets people that arent quite confident to ride on roads and people who are new to cycling out there cycling, And the more cyclists the better for everyone, Less traffic on the commute is a big plus. southamptonadi

10:30pm Tue 7 Jan 14

Ginger_cyclist says...

southamptonadi wrote:
I like these events just like the sky rides as it gets people that arent quite confident to ride on roads and people who are new to cycling out there cycling, And the more cyclists the better for everyone, Less traffic on the commute is a big plus.
I can't wait for the 2014 Southampton sky ride.
[quote][p][bold]southamptonadi[/bold] wrote: I like these events just like the sky rides as it gets people that arent quite confident to ride on roads and people who are new to cycling out there cycling, And the more cyclists the better for everyone, Less traffic on the commute is a big plus.[/p][/quote]I can't wait for the 2014 Southampton sky ride. Ginger_cyclist

12:01am Wed 8 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Southamptonadi, just because you and five others did not see the Hale incident does not mean that all the residents who say they saw it happen are not telling the truth. I can't imagine that any of you stood and observed for half an hour or so. You were each only there for a few seconds - the residents live on top of it, and it doesn't sound as though you were riding with aggressive racing groups who are the worst culprits. You have given me no reason to think you are not telling the truth, neither have the witnesses.. Please try to realise that the vast majority of locals are NOT against cyclists. It is just these enormous events that bring such disruption and unpleasantness. The Police are supposed to be investigating the general public nuisance, and it is up to them to interview witnesses.

Regarding whether the events are local, that is absolutely not the case. Cycling chat sites reveal that that the riders come from all over the country, and many seem to ride lots of events, often using Sportives as training rides. (Have you tried Googling the names of very fast finishers? Try John Brackston - 4hrs 16 mins - he sounds semi-professional.) The smaller, more local rides, often for charity, cause very little trouble in comparison. UK Cycling events operate all over the country - it is very big business. Look at their website.

Sorry about the blinding headlights. Many years ago a cyclist held up his hand to shield his eyes from mine, and I realised what I was doing and have tried never to do it again. Probably the reason it happens more in the Forest is because of trying to watch for free-ranging animals which don't show up in dipped headlights. Another reason may be the very bright headlamps used by cyclists. It is surprisingly difficult to see past some of them, particular the flashing ones. However, I will try to pass on the message about being considerate to you.

The regulations governing the New Forest are specific to this special, unique area, with distinct laws of its own. Residents have to put up with all sorts of extra restrictive planning laws. Because it is dependent on the grazing animals to survive, they have priority, even on the public roads - which are just a part of the Forest because the way of life with free ranging animals dates from centuries before public highways came into existence, Its formation by this way of life dates from about the Bronze Age, centuries before William the Conqueror claimed it as his hunting Forest. Would you like to see the animals taken away into enclosed fields and the maintenance done by machines like town parks, losing the special quality of the area? If not, it can only be like one big open farm with mud and animal poo everywhere. Personally I love it all, and so do most people who know it.
Southamptonadi, just because you and five others did not see the Hale incident does not mean that all the residents who say they saw it happen are not telling the truth. I can't imagine that any of you stood and observed for half an hour or so. You were each only there for a few seconds - the residents live on top of it, and it doesn't sound as though you were riding with aggressive racing groups who are the worst culprits. You have given me no reason to think you are not telling the truth, neither have the witnesses.. Please try to realise that the vast majority of locals are NOT against cyclists. It is just these enormous events that bring such disruption and unpleasantness. The Police are supposed to be investigating the general public nuisance, and it is up to them to interview witnesses. Regarding whether the events are local, that is absolutely not the case. Cycling chat sites reveal that that the riders come from all over the country, and many seem to ride lots of events, often using Sportives as training rides. (Have you tried Googling the names of very fast finishers? Try John Brackston - 4hrs 16 mins - he sounds semi-professional.) The smaller, more local rides, often for charity, cause very little trouble in comparison. UK Cycling events operate all over the country - it is very big business. Look at their website. Sorry about the blinding headlights. Many years ago a cyclist held up his hand to shield his eyes from mine, and I realised what I was doing and have tried never to do it again. Probably the reason it happens more in the Forest is because of trying to watch for free-ranging animals which don't show up in dipped headlights. Another reason may be the very bright headlamps used by cyclists. It is surprisingly difficult to see past some of them, particular the flashing ones. However, I will try to pass on the message about being considerate to you. The regulations governing the New Forest are specific to this special, unique area, with distinct laws of its own. Residents have to put up with all sorts of extra restrictive planning laws. Because it is dependent on the grazing animals to survive, they have priority, even on the public roads - which are just a part of the Forest because the way of life with free ranging animals dates from centuries before public highways came into existence, Its formation by this way of life dates from about the Bronze Age, centuries before William the Conqueror claimed it as his hunting Forest. Would you like to see the animals taken away into enclosed fields and the maintenance done by machines like town parks, losing the special quality of the area? If not, it can only be like one big open farm with mud and animal poo everywhere. Personally I love it all, and so do most people who know it. Reconciler

10:51am Wed 8 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

you taking my posts out of context, I have not mention any animals, We all know they are there. It feels you are preeching to the wrong person as I know what your getting at. the words reserve or nature park would be better than an open farm as they are mainly wild animals (even if owned as they are not pets)

I said uk cycling events are local that is all, I never mentioned about the cyclists, yes we all know people come from all over the country just as they do for all the events.

My comment stands as we were there a lot longer than a few seconds, how long do you think the light phases lasted, so no most people did not jump them. You should set up a camera next time to prove these allegations. most people who RLJ are not what I call cyclists, they are people who happen to have bikes, mostly people going to pub etc, they are generaly not serious cyclists and dont mainly do these events of 100 miles, they are more used to going about a mile.

I also clearly admitted not being there all day and couldent comment on what I did not see, Just saying That for their comment to stand nearly everyone else must of gone through on red which I cant believe. You know as well as I do that sometimes people Eggagerate stories, only last week my mother law said everyone was commenting about a spelling mistake on a FB but when I looked it was just her. I see a taxi driver driving like an idiot and down the pub I might end up saying all taki drivers cant drive, look at white van man.


You say on the chat sites about people racing also have a look at some with RLJ'ing in mind as the most serious cyclists hate it and post about it all the time especially on the ctc. there is ome eveidence that its actually safer for cyclists but we wont go into that as it does not count at roadworks, me personally I refuse to break the trafic law proberly been driving to long.

There is a middle ground in all this and I expect the relevent parties will find it eventually, I have posted on numerous stories about putting a few plods at key sites and having more roaming marshalls with cameras. All wiggle have to do is enforce the rules which I have already written to them about doing so. As we are all here to reach an understanding.

I did see large packs but at the wrong/right (delete as apropiate) time, but that i believe is how club rides are all over the country on a daily basis, One reason why i wont join a club.

The cyclists that I was around, which kept changing all morning were great, No one blocked cars, we were never two abreast but I saw some who were but they were still further in than my normall line. every time a car came either way everyone automaticly moved over, what im getting at is that 2500 cyclists were proberly really good and none have received any credit for their respect for others and in trying to give cycling a good name. whilst enjoying a good day out. As usual we all have been labelled scum by most, Once they have weeded out the few idiots most others will complete the event without an issue.

It makes me wonder if everyone wore jeans and rode mountain bikes would all this happen and its seems to be the sight of lycra that affects people, Ive never understood why it gets so much hate, but its the same as me wearing a saints top when playing in the park and that does not offend anyone. (and im not suggesting thats why residents hate the wiggle at all its a passing comment about the state of cycling)

Its quite interesting in that I go to scotland, Mainly the highlands and islands, where we have had many a chat with locals, they have the same up there but in a much larger scale of roaming animals on open heathland, but its very rare for the animals to be run over even when the speeds are 60 they really cant believe it when we tell them about the forest and its 40 limit and still hundreds of animals get hit.

Its nice not to be slated for wanting this event and verbally abused just because I admit im a cyclist, which is the norm on here.
you taking my posts out of context, I have not mention any animals, We all know they are there. It feels you are preeching to the wrong person as I know what your getting at. the words reserve or nature park would be better than an open farm as they are mainly wild animals (even if owned as they are not pets) I said uk cycling events are local that is all, I never mentioned about the cyclists, yes we all know people come from all over the country just as they do for all the events. My comment stands as we were there a lot longer than a few seconds, how long do you think the light phases lasted, so no most people did not jump them. You should set up a camera next time to prove these allegations. most people who RLJ are not what I call cyclists, they are people who happen to have bikes, mostly people going to pub etc, they are generaly not serious cyclists and dont mainly do these events of 100 miles, they are more used to going about a mile. I also clearly admitted not being there all day and couldent comment on what I did not see, Just saying That for their comment to stand nearly everyone else must of gone through on red which I cant believe. You know as well as I do that sometimes people Eggagerate stories, only last week my mother law said everyone was commenting about a spelling mistake on a FB but when I looked it was just her. I see a taxi driver driving like an idiot and down the pub I might end up saying all taki drivers cant drive, look at white van man. You say on the chat sites about people racing also have a look at some with RLJ'ing in mind as the most serious cyclists hate it and post about it all the time especially on the ctc. there is ome eveidence that its actually safer for cyclists but we wont go into that as it does not count at roadworks, me personally I refuse to break the trafic law proberly been driving to long. There is a middle ground in all this and I expect the relevent parties will find it eventually, I have posted on numerous stories about putting a few plods at key sites and having more roaming marshalls with cameras. All wiggle have to do is enforce the rules which I have already written to them about doing so. As we are all here to reach an understanding. I did see large packs but at the wrong/right (delete as apropiate) time, but that i believe is how club rides are all over the country on a daily basis, One reason why i wont join a club. The cyclists that I was around, which kept changing all morning were great, No one blocked cars, we were never two abreast but I saw some who were but they were still further in than my normall line. every time a car came either way everyone automaticly moved over, what im getting at is that 2500 cyclists were proberly really good and none have received any credit for their respect for others and in trying to give cycling a good name. whilst enjoying a good day out. As usual we all have been labelled scum by most, Once they have weeded out the few idiots most others will complete the event without an issue. It makes me wonder if everyone wore jeans and rode mountain bikes would all this happen and its seems to be the sight of lycra that affects people, Ive never understood why it gets so much hate, but its the same as me wearing a saints top when playing in the park and that does not offend anyone. (and im not suggesting thats why residents hate the wiggle at all its a passing comment about the state of cycling) Its quite interesting in that I go to scotland, Mainly the highlands and islands, where we have had many a chat with locals, they have the same up there but in a much larger scale of roaming animals on open heathland, but its very rare for the animals to be run over even when the speeds are 60 they really cant believe it when we tell them about the forest and its 40 limit and still hundreds of animals get hit. Its nice not to be slated for wanting this event and verbally abused just because I admit im a cyclist, which is the norm on here. southamptonadi

11:49am Wed 8 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Let's hope we never have another red light, so that we don't get involved in this argument again. It distracts from the true reasons for disgruntlement on both sides.

Thank you for being one of the many considerate cyclists. We locals welcome you. Sorry if I've given the impression that all lycra-wearing riders are held in disrepute by us - this really is not true. You see us at the side of the road waving our greetings. It is the considerable proportion - not just a small minority - of racing riders who cause truly dreadful problems, and until Wiggle take proper steps to enforce their own rules we shall get nowhere. They are now planning their sixth year in the Forest and the fifth was worse than ever before, so you can't say we haven't given them plenty of time to get their house in order. Thank you for writing to them on the subject. Locals are challenged to report those behaving badly, but it is virtually impossible to do so because we can't read the identification numbers - which need to be on your backs. Then we could write and praise you, so as to distinguish you from the selfish section. Have you read the comments on: http://www.bikeradar
.com/forums/viewtopi
c.php?t=12944086&p=1
8566668 - pp18567502 ? You can see there that you are not alone in wanting bad behaviour dealt with. Wiggle congratulate themselves on DQing 5 riders this year!! It should have been hundreds.

In 2012 there were monitors on the Blissford Hill "rush hour" point and it was remarkable how well behaved the riders were. They kept to the LH side of the road, and vehicles could descend fairly easily instead of being stuck at the top waiting for an opening as in the previous years. So I agree that a plod or two strategically placed could make a difference. (But Wiggle should bear the expense.) The trouble was that as soon as racers were past the monitors they reverted to type. (Yes, I can vouch for this personally.) Motor bike plods might make a bigger difference, but no one with experience of Wiggle's broken promises can trust marshals, employed by them, to disqualify the literally hundreds of riders who break the rules. And have you see the article in the Echo about the Posties v Plods race? The "winning rider" is semi professional, it appears.

Regarding highlands as compared to the New Forest, I believe the difference is that the former has many times more space, fewer animals per acre, and far fewer visitors and commuters on through routes. The Forest animals are not domesticated, but neither are they wild. They are owned by commoners and know their owners, who know where to find them and feed them as necessary, check and treat them carefully for injury, tics, "wall eye", worms, etc. , and fit reflective collars. The cattle are now mainly Belted Galloway, which have their own bright white stripe to make them visible - but still get run down by vehicles. Most of the area is designated as SPA - special protection area, and SSSI - sites of special scientific interest. The "farming" activities are essential for the maintenance of these areas. I did say it is LIKE one big farm, with poo everywhere, but I will accept "nature reserve" - though not strictly correct - if that pleases you better! . Anything to find the middle ground!

There is very little hate on either side in this thread, which just shows that a little sweet reason can go a long way. I, for one, despise the use of foul language against anyone whose views are not quite the same as your own.
Let's hope we never have another red light, so that we don't get involved in this argument again. It distracts from the true reasons for disgruntlement on both sides. Thank you for being one of the many considerate cyclists. We locals welcome you. Sorry if I've given the impression that all lycra-wearing riders are held in disrepute by us - this really is not true. You see us at the side of the road waving our greetings. It is the considerable proportion - not just a small minority - of racing riders who cause truly dreadful problems, and until Wiggle take proper steps to enforce their own rules we shall get nowhere. They are now planning their sixth year in the Forest and the fifth was worse than ever before, so you can't say we haven't given them plenty of time to get their house in order. Thank you for writing to them on the subject. Locals are challenged to report those behaving badly, but it is virtually impossible to do so because we can't read the identification numbers - which need to be on your backs. Then we could write and praise you, so as to distinguish you from the selfish section. Have you read the comments on: http://www.bikeradar .com/forums/viewtopi c.php?t=12944086&p=1 8566668 - pp18567502 ? You can see there that you are not alone in wanting bad behaviour dealt with. Wiggle congratulate themselves on DQing 5 riders this year!! It should have been hundreds. In 2012 there were monitors on the Blissford Hill "rush hour" point and it was remarkable how well behaved the riders were. They kept to the LH side of the road, and vehicles could descend fairly easily instead of being stuck at the top waiting for an opening as in the previous years. So I agree that a plod or two strategically placed could make a difference. (But Wiggle should bear the expense.) The trouble was that as soon as racers were past the monitors they reverted to type. (Yes, I can vouch for this personally.) Motor bike plods might make a bigger difference, but no one with experience of Wiggle's broken promises can trust marshals, employed by them, to disqualify the literally hundreds of riders who break the rules. And have you see the article in the Echo about the Posties v Plods race? The "winning rider" is semi professional, it appears. Regarding highlands as compared to the New Forest, I believe the difference is that the former has many times more space, fewer animals per acre, and far fewer visitors and commuters on through routes. The Forest animals are not domesticated, but neither are they wild. They are owned by commoners and know their owners, who know where to find them and feed them as necessary, check and treat them carefully for injury, tics, "wall eye", worms, etc. , and fit reflective collars. The cattle are now mainly Belted Galloway, which have their own bright white stripe to make them visible - but still get run down by vehicles. Most of the area is designated as SPA - special protection area, and SSSI - sites of special scientific interest. The "farming" activities are essential for the maintenance of these areas. I did say it is LIKE one big farm, with poo everywhere, but I will accept "nature reserve" - though not strictly correct - if that pleases you better! . Anything to find the middle ground! There is very little hate on either side in this thread, which just shows that a little sweet reason can go a long way. I, for one, despise the use of foul language against anyone whose views are not quite the same as your own. Reconciler

11:51am Thu 9 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

I think I forgot to add that whilst some photos may be proof of bad roadmanship and racing, We need to understand that there is an amount of showing off, say I was with two freinds, you see the camera and you all move next to each over and pull faces or something, its a great way of getting a group photo not 100% prove of anti social riding or racing, just putting it out there.

Lets get the parties to gether, you speak for the locals, ill speak for cyclists and we can resolve this in about two minutes flat for a fair outcome for everyone.
I think I forgot to add that whilst some photos may be proof of bad roadmanship and racing, We need to understand that there is an amount of showing off, say I was with two freinds, you see the camera and you all move next to each over and pull faces or something, its a great way of getting a group photo not 100% prove of anti social riding or racing, just putting it out there. Lets get the parties to gether, you speak for the locals, ill speak for cyclists and we can resolve this in about two minutes flat for a fair outcome for everyone. southamptonadi

12:04pm Thu 9 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

Wonderful! I leave you to organise it and wait to hear from you!! It would all appear to be so simple, yet we get nothing but frustration from the Cycling Liaison Committee, which is the attempt to do what you suggest, that has been going on since last summer. Immovable object hitting irresistible force comes to mind. We must keep trying and remain on good terms, though.
Wonderful! I leave you to organise it and wait to hear from you!! It would all appear to be so simple, yet we get nothing but frustration from the Cycling Liaison Committee, which is the attempt to do what you suggest, that has been going on since last summer. Immovable object hitting irresistible force comes to mind. We must keep trying and remain on good terms, though. Reconciler

1:27pm Thu 9 Jan 14

loosehead says...

to the two above posts it's common that bodies set up to organise events where all parties are happy go off track & the simple answers staring them in the face.
If more toilets are needed then provide them if more stewards are needed to make the rules are obeyed ask the supporters if they'd be willing to do it.
Maybe ask the local Army Cadets if they could set up stations to inform the organisers whats happening at various stages of the event.
I know this has happened at a yachting regatta in Portsmouth as I did it as a cadet for free
to the two above posts it's common that bodies set up to organise events where all parties are happy go off track & the simple answers staring them in the face. If more toilets are needed then provide them if more stewards are needed to make the rules are obeyed ask the supporters if they'd be willing to do it. Maybe ask the local Army Cadets if they could set up stations to inform the organisers whats happening at various stages of the event. I know this has happened at a yachting regatta in Portsmouth as I did it as a cadet for free loosehead

4:02pm Thu 9 Jan 14

Reconciler says...

I'm not on the committee but will pass on these ideas.
I'm not on the committee but will pass on these ideas. Reconciler

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