Ten historical facts you may not know about Southampton

Southampton as seen from the air

Southampton as seen from the air

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Digital Editor

Almost quarter of a million people live in it, and countless more come to it every day, but like every city, Southampton has a number of hidden surprises and tales from its past that you may not know about.

Here are ten facts about the city's history that you may not know, designed to help you impress your friends and family next time you're wandering around Southampton:

1. A first at God's House Tower

Daily Echo: God's House Tower in the early 20th century

God's House Tower, on the corner of Town Quay, Lower Canal Walk and Platform Road, was the first dedicated artillery fortification built in England. It was constructed in 1417, as part of the drive to fortify Southampton following the French raids some 80 years earlier. The town gunner was paid sixpence a week.

2. Cannons on The Platform

Daily Echo: Platform Road and Queen's Park, SouthamptonVokes Memorial Gardens, centre. Approximate site of The Platform

The Vokes Memorial Gardens in Platform Road were the site of The Platform. Cannons and artillery were stationed here as part of the defence of the town. The modern route of Platform Road and Canute Road roughly correspond to the natural shore line.

3. Living in The Ditches

Daily Echo: Canal Walk, in the early 20th century.

Canal Walk was once a thriving narrow street full of shops and homes. Also known as The Ditches, it was originally the path of a stream along the outside of the Eastern Walls, taking waste from the old town, and later part of a canal. The water ran out to the the river under a bridge outside God's House Tower.

4. Underwater railway

Daily Echo: Southampton West Railway Station, before the land reclamation of West Bay

What is now Southampton Central Railway Station used to flood when there was a particularly high tide, as the shoreline was along the southern side of the station (what is now commonly known as "the Toys 'R' Us side" to modern Sotonians).

Originally called Blechynden/West End, it then became Southampton West, before becoming the defacto station in the city following the closure of Southampton Terminus in the 1960s. It was then known as 'Southampton Central'. It later became just 'Southampton', before reverting to 'Southampton Central' in the 1990s.

Also, the railway tunnel under the Civic Centre was originally intended to be part of a network of canals.

5. Ploughing in the parks

Daily Echo: City Centre Parks in SouthamptonCentral Parks in Southampton

The Central Parks in Southampton were common land (Lammas lands) for residents of the medieval town, and used for cultivation up until August each year, when they were then used for grazing cattle. The bell on the top of the Bargate was used to to let those working in the fields when to return inside the town walls.

The parks were made into the green leisure spaces enjoyed by many today, in the mid 1800s and the cricket pitches in Hoglands Park have been used almost continuously since 1867.

6. A giant on the Bargate

Daily Echo: An engraving of the Bargate before Above Bar became populated

On the northside of the Bargate, used to hang tapestries depicting Sir Bevois and his squire, the giant Ascupart. The tapestries now hang inside the Bargate. Legend has it that Bevois was the son of Guy, Count of Southampton. The count's wife asked a former lover to kill her husband in the Forest. Fearful of vengence from the 10-year-old Bevois, she orders him dead too, only for Bevois to be saved by his tutor.

Bevois is sold to pirates and has many adventures, including facing the 30ft tall Ascupart in battle. He defeats him, but rather than kill the giant, he makes him his squire. Eventually Bevois has his vengence on his stepfather and earns his inheritance - only to face more tragedy. The pair lend their name to various streets and areas across Southampton, such as Bevois Valley and Ascupart Street.

7. Ferry, cross the Itchen

Daily Echo: The Crosshouse in SouthamptonThe Crosshouse as it is today

It may now be tucked away in a forgotten corner of the city, but the Crosshouse used to be known to most people in Southampton as a key stop on many local journeys. Its exact age is not known, but is believed to be at least 600 years old. It was built as a shelter for anyone waiting for a ferry from the eastern side of the River Itchen to what is now the city centre.

The circular stone building is in four segments - hence the name Crosshouse - so it can provide shelter regardless of where the wind and rain is coming from. The Itchen ferry was later replaced by the Floating Bridge and then the Itchen Bridge, meaning there was little demand for the Crosshouse as a shelter for travellers.

8. Making a mark in history

Daily Echo: The Bargate Shields

The shields on the north side of the Bargate, above the gateway, symbolise some of the most notable families that lived within the town. They were added to the building in the late 1700s to honour 'Parliamentary representatives and leading burgesses and benefactors' of the town at the time.

9. Lepers at the Civic Centre?

Daily Echo: Thousands gathered in May 1910 at the Marlands for a memorial service following the death of King Edward VII.A memorial service for the King at the Marlands, site of the Civic Centre

The site of the Civic Centre - which incidentally was the first building in the country to have the name Civic Centre - was a large open space for residents of Southampton, and used for many events, including the memorial service following the sinking of Titanic in 1912.

During medieval times it was the site of the Magdalene hospital for lepers and fields around it were known as Magdalene's Fields. Overtime, Magdalene became 'Marlands' which is how the area got its name. Part of the deal to construct the Civic Centre was that more social housing was built in Southampton - leading to the building of the Flower Roads estate in Swaythling.

10. A leak changed the history of the world

Daily Echo: Mayflower Memorial on Western Esplanade/Town Quay in SouthamptonMayflower Memorial, Southampton

The Mayflower, the famed ship which brought the Pilgrim Fathers to America, actually set sail from Southampton. There were in fact two ships - The Mayflower and The Speedwell, which left Southampton together in early August, 1620.

However, the smaller Speedwell was soon found to be taking on water, so the two ships diverted to Dartmouth for repairs before setting sail again, only for The Speedwell to spring yet another leak. All the passengers then clambered onto The Mayflower and continued on for Cape Cod in New England that September.

There is a memorial to the Mayflower at the corner of Town Quay and Western Esplanade, opposite Mayflower Park. It is not known if the two ships were moored at either Town Quay or at West Quay, before they left Southampton.

Bonus fact:

Daily Echo: Fish fingers

Southampton played a major role in the success of fish fingers. Clarence Birdseye tested herring sticks and cod sticks on shoppers in Southampton and South Wales. The Southampton customers loved the cod sticks, which then became known as fish fingers and rolled out across the country.

You may also like: 10 photos showing 120 years of changes in Southampton >>

If you still want more, why not take a 90 second tour of the Old Town Walls by watching the video below?

Spotted any errors? Email it in to us.

Comments (36)

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3:13pm Wed 22 Jan 14

margie933 says...

Very interesting. Why do some people say our Southampton is boring? I guess they have no interest in the past history of the town which has become a City.
Very interesting. Why do some people say our Southampton is boring? I guess they have no interest in the past history of the town which has become a City. margie933
  • Score: 44

3:16pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Buntylicious says...

Well done DE, that's a very interesting article!
Well done DE, that's a very interesting article! Buntylicious
  • Score: 48

3:38pm Wed 22 Jan 14

bigfella777 says...

Exactly why the shields on the Bargate should be preserved instead of letting them crumble to bits, it's a disgrace
Exactly why the shields on the Bargate should be preserved instead of letting them crumble to bits, it's a disgrace bigfella777
  • Score: 43

5:05pm Wed 22 Jan 14

sotonboy84 says...

bigfella777 wrote:
Exactly why the shields on the Bargate should be preserved instead of letting them crumble to bits, it's a disgrace
I agree. As a Grade I listed monument, the council are responsible for upkeeping it and preventing it from falling into disrepair. Worryingly, the shields are beginning to look dangerously bad. I'm sure English Heritage would like to be made aware!
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: Exactly why the shields on the Bargate should be preserved instead of letting them crumble to bits, it's a disgrace[/p][/quote]I agree. As a Grade I listed monument, the council are responsible for upkeeping it and preventing it from falling into disrepair. Worryingly, the shields are beginning to look dangerously bad. I'm sure English Heritage would like to be made aware! sotonboy84
  • Score: 27

5:31pm Wed 22 Jan 14

shesaint says...

I love facts like his. Keep it up Dan.
I love facts like his. Keep it up Dan. shesaint
  • Score: 21

6:25pm Wed 22 Jan 14

klappdrachen says...

Being a fan of the mundane, I found the fish finger anecdote quite interesting. It's little things like that that bring a smile to my face....
Being a fan of the mundane, I found the fish finger anecdote quite interesting. It's little things like that that bring a smile to my face.... klappdrachen
  • Score: 21

6:35pm Wed 22 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court?
I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right?
Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle?
Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle!
Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester?
maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?
Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court? I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right? Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle? Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle! Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester? maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city? loosehead
  • Score: 28

6:41pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Micle1974 says...

Anyone got anything to add to that?
Just found this.......
http://www.thescratc
hingshed.com/2012/03
/top-ten-facts-about
-southampton/
Anyone got anything to add to that? Just found this....... http://www.thescratc hingshed.com/2012/03 /top-ten-facts-about -southampton/ Micle1974
  • Score: -5

8:21pm Wed 22 Jan 14

wdik says...

yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey wdik
  • Score: -18

8:42pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Zootopian says...

wdik wrote:
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
There was a canal tunnel where the rail tunnel is, is what you've pretty much said.

So the article is not really wrong at all wrong? You're just an anally retentive and needlessly abusive train/canal spotter?

Glad we cleared that one up.
[quote][p][bold]wdik[/bold] wrote: yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey[/p][/quote]There was a canal tunnel where the rail tunnel is, is what you've pretty much said. So the article is not really wrong at all wrong? You're just an anally retentive and needlessly abusive train/canal spotter? Glad we cleared that one up. Zootopian
  • Score: 34

9:13pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Dan Kerins says...

wdik wrote:
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal.

In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom?

You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.
[quote][p][bold]wdik[/bold] wrote: yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey[/p][/quote]Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal. In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom? You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal. Dan Kerins
  • Score: 48

9:22pm Wed 22 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Dan Kerins wrote:
wdik wrote:
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal.

In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom?

You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.
Dan I'm not slagging you down as I believe the people of this city need to know more about it's rich history as many don't know the Pilgrim Fathers even set sail from here ?
Id love you to print a glossy brochure & distribute it to Hotels & maybe get the cruise liners to put it into the cabins so the passengers know what a fantastic history this city has.
I know Moulton was attempting to do something like this but what a great service that would be by the Echo to this city & future job creation?
please think about it!
[quote][p][bold]Dan Kerins[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wdik[/bold] wrote: yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey[/p][/quote]Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal. In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom? You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.[/p][/quote]Dan I'm not slagging you down as I believe the people of this city need to know more about it's rich history as many don't know the Pilgrim Fathers even set sail from here ? Id love you to print a glossy brochure & distribute it to Hotels & maybe get the cruise liners to put it into the cabins so the passengers know what a fantastic history this city has. I know Moulton was attempting to do something like this but what a great service that would be by the Echo to this city & future job creation? please think about it! loosehead
  • Score: 9

10:56pm Wed 22 Jan 14

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court?
I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right?
Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle?
Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle!
Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester?
maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?
They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from.
I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court? I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right? Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle? Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle! Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester? maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?[/p][/quote]They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from. I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial southy
  • Score: -1

10:59pm Wed 22 Jan 14

southy says...

What about the 1919 mutineers that refuse to be sent to Russia to fight in the Civil war, this as to be in the top 5 as it change the course of history. and then there the few that left here to fight in the Spanish civil war (the start of the WWII)
What about the 1919 mutineers that refuse to be sent to Russia to fight in the Civil war, this as to be in the top 5 as it change the course of history. and then there the few that left here to fight in the Spanish civil war (the start of the WWII) southy
  • Score: 0

11:20pm Wed 22 Jan 14

southy says...

Dan Kerins wrote:
wdik wrote:
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal.

In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom?

You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.
same broom beginning to sound like trigger (just joking), if I remember rightly the Canal tunnel and the rail tunnel over lap each other, going by what was said in the 80's, subsidence was causing a bit of a problem
[quote][p][bold]Dan Kerins[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wdik[/bold] wrote: yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey[/p][/quote]Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal. In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom? You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.[/p][/quote]same broom beginning to sound like trigger (just joking), if I remember rightly the Canal tunnel and the rail tunnel over lap each other, going by what was said in the 80's, subsidence was causing a bit of a problem southy
  • Score: -1

7:39am Thu 23 Jan 14

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court?
I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right?
Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle?
Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle!
Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester?
maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?
They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from.
I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial
Southy get it right these were two ships acquired from Holland they actually set sail with passengers from Southampton.
Next you'll be saying the Titanic set sail on it's tragic voyage from Belfast as it was built there?
Southy stop denying our great history & take some pride in it & boast about it.
the Pilgrim Fathers were English & they boarded the ships in this country why would we let foreign colonists board are ships especially when they were our rivals?
(New Amsterdam,now New York)
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court? I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right? Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle? Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle! Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester? maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?[/p][/quote]They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from. I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial[/p][/quote]Southy get it right these were two ships acquired from Holland they actually set sail with passengers from Southampton. Next you'll be saying the Titanic set sail on it's tragic voyage from Belfast as it was built there? Southy stop denying our great history & take some pride in it & boast about it. the Pilgrim Fathers were English & they boarded the ships in this country why would we let foreign colonists board are ships especially when they were our rivals? (New Amsterdam,now New York) loosehead
  • Score: 7

7:49am Thu 23 Jan 14

Buddy SFC says...

Don't Panic ! The Bargate will soon be knocked down for another block of flats ( And Spanish villa's , for the decision makers !) ..............

It's great to see Southampton has so much Heritage , sadly ignored and destroyed over the last 20 years !

P.S. Where is that Ice rink to be built within six months '' Laddie'' promised to me by that fixed smiled Labour Councillor 30 yrs ago stood outside as we went in for the final session ................
Don't Panic ! The Bargate will soon be knocked down for another block of flats ( And Spanish villa's , for the decision makers !) .............. It's great to see Southampton has so much Heritage , sadly ignored and destroyed over the last 20 years ! P.S. Where is that Ice rink to be built within six months '' Laddie'' promised to me by that fixed smiled Labour Councillor 30 yrs ago stood outside as we went in for the final session ................ Buddy SFC
  • Score: 2

8:40am Thu 23 Jan 14

sainthaze says...

Dear Dan,

Thank you for giving us a reminder of our local history. Whatever anyone thinks, Southampton is steeped in history - it's all there waiting for us to discover.

Unfortunately a large part of our city residents will never bother to find out and then there are others, such as yourself and your critics ;) who make the effort (if you can call it that) to actively research and support our historical roots - it's all fascinating stuff.
Dear Dan, Thank you for giving us a reminder of our local history. Whatever anyone thinks, Southampton is steeped in history - it's all there waiting for us to discover. Unfortunately a large part of our city residents will never bother to find out and then there are others, such as yourself and your critics ;) who make the effort (if you can call it that) to actively research and support our historical roots - it's all fascinating stuff. sainthaze
  • Score: 10

10:10am Thu 23 Jan 14

ukfreddybear says...

Excellent article about our city's history. A very interesting read!
Excellent article about our city's history. A very interesting read! ukfreddybear
  • Score: 13

12:02pm Thu 23 Jan 14

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court?
I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right?
Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle?
Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle!
Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester?
maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?
They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from.
I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial
Southy get it right these were two ships acquired from Holland they actually set sail with passengers from Southampton.
Next you'll be saying the Titanic set sail on it's tragic voyage from Belfast as it was built there?
Southy stop denying our great history & take some pride in it & boast about it.
the Pilgrim Fathers were English & they boarded the ships in this country why would we let foreign colonists board are ships especially when they were our rivals?
(New Amsterdam,now New York)
Loose learn your History yes they where Dutch ships Mayflower and Speedwell they where Corvettes ships and yes they where people was English, the Pilgrims (Puritans) was self exiled to Holland if they stayed in England they would of been religious persecuted, like a some where, the ones that got to Holland remained there for 12 years they left Holland for America because there was problems forming their children was becoming Dutch, they boarded the ships in Holland only 2 family,s boarded in Southampton, they where granted to leave by the crown to do so (Boston, then across to the Netherlands, then Southampton and finally Plymouth with the Speedwell returning with half of the travelers)
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Dan what about the Red Lion Pub where HenryV held court? I wrote in a post about the Pilgrim fathers leaving here but Southy & a group of others said they didn't so who's right? Dan you also failed to mention the place where King Canute tried to stop the waves or his castle? Until I bought an American girlfriend here I never knew this city was a Castle! Until I went to Winchester I never knew this city was King Alfreds Capital until he moved up to Winchester? maybe if we taught our children more about our great history there would be4 more pride in our city?[/p][/quote]They left Holland loose, the Speedwell moored out in the channel the Mayflower dock to take on goods and the last few passengers (2 familys) if you go over to Holland they to have a memorial on the Location where the majority of the passengers boarded the two ships and sailed from. I am pretty sure there is a picture on line of the Holland Mayflower/Speedwell Memorial[/p][/quote]Southy get it right these were two ships acquired from Holland they actually set sail with passengers from Southampton. Next you'll be saying the Titanic set sail on it's tragic voyage from Belfast as it was built there? Southy stop denying our great history & take some pride in it & boast about it. the Pilgrim Fathers were English & they boarded the ships in this country why would we let foreign colonists board are ships especially when they were our rivals? (New Amsterdam,now New York)[/p][/quote]Loose learn your History yes they where Dutch ships Mayflower and Speedwell they where Corvettes ships and yes they where people was English, the Pilgrims (Puritans) was self exiled to Holland if they stayed in England they would of been religious persecuted, like a some where, the ones that got to Holland remained there for 12 years they left Holland for America because there was problems forming their children was becoming Dutch, they boarded the ships in Holland only 2 family,s boarded in Southampton, they where granted to leave by the crown to do so (Boston, then across to the Netherlands, then Southampton and finally Plymouth with the Speedwell returning with half of the travelers) southy
  • Score: -7

12:16pm Thu 23 Jan 14

southy says...

And what about the Bowling Green next to god's tower
And what about the Bowling Green next to god's tower southy
  • Score: 0

12:40pm Thu 23 Jan 14

st1halo says...

Love stuff like this, well done Dan.
Love stuff like this, well done Dan. st1halo
  • Score: 7

1:17pm Thu 23 Jan 14

-stiv- says...

Very nice piece! I'd love to see more of this kind of thing.
Very nice piece! I'd love to see more of this kind of thing. -stiv-
  • Score: 9

1:28pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Oh my goodness says...

Now that article made me very happy, but I did laugh out loud for the wrong reason at the end of it.Spotted any errors? Email it in to us. Perhaps the video not working could be top of today's agenda.
Now that article made me very happy, but I did laugh out loud for the wrong reason at the end of it.Spotted any errors? Email it in to us. Perhaps the video not working could be top of today's agenda. Oh my goodness
  • Score: 1

1:38pm Thu 23 Jan 14

boobooj says...

Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in.
Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in. boobooj
  • Score: -2

1:16am Fri 24 Jan 14

BeyondImagination says...

Good stuff. Sadly the current history makers will go down as caretakers of the wilderness years for Southampton.
Good stuff. Sadly the current history makers will go down as caretakers of the wilderness years for Southampton. BeyondImagination
  • Score: 3

7:54am Fri 24 Jan 14

St.Winch70 says...

Excellent shot of the Crosshouse complete with graffiti - a reminder that history and culture has no place in modern day Southampton.
Sadly the central parks are now known more for rapes, rather than cricket...
Nice article about a once great city, but now unfortunately, other than the Football club, it really doesn't have much going for it...continually neglected by successive, unimaginative councils that have been rode by equally unimaginative property developers.What a shame!
Excellent shot of the Crosshouse complete with graffiti - a reminder that history and culture has no place in modern day Southampton. Sadly the central parks are now known more for rapes, rather than cricket... Nice article about a once great city, but now unfortunately, other than the Football club, it really doesn't have much going for it...continually neglected by successive, unimaginative councils that have been rode by equally unimaginative property developers.What a shame! St.Winch70
  • Score: -2

12:15pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Saintjock says...

boobooj wrote:
Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in.
An unemployed person is like a leper eh? Gratuitous ignorant bigoted abuse of people in a position that you, your family or friends could be in at any time, or a sensitive and compassionate observation about the stigma associated with unemployment caused by the former?
As you know someone who's smarter than the average bear, better ask him.
[quote][p][bold]boobooj[/bold] wrote: Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in.[/p][/quote]An unemployed person is like a leper eh? Gratuitous ignorant bigoted abuse of people in a position that you, your family or friends could be in at any time, or a sensitive and compassionate observation about the stigma associated with unemployment caused by the former? As you know someone who's smarter than the average bear, better ask him. Saintjock
  • Score: 4

12:24pm Fri 24 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Saintjock wrote:
boobooj wrote:
Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in.
An unemployed person is like a leper eh? Gratuitous ignorant bigoted abuse of people in a position that you, your family or friends could be in at any time, or a sensitive and compassionate observation about the stigma associated with unemployment caused by the former?
As you know someone who's smarter than the average bear, better ask him.
anyone who's unemployed but is chasing work isn't a strain on society,
Any one who through a medical reason why they can't work aren't a strain on society it's those that are quite capable of work but enjoy live on welfare & don't want to work no matter what job is offered them are a strain on society & make the genuine claimants look bad which is unfair to them & many would like to see those people using welfare as a way of living & not working forced into work.
[quote][p][bold]Saintjock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boobooj[/bold] wrote: Lepers can still be found roaming the city centre to this day - particularly on weekdays when their jobseekers allowance comes in.[/p][/quote]An unemployed person is like a leper eh? Gratuitous ignorant bigoted abuse of people in a position that you, your family or friends could be in at any time, or a sensitive and compassionate observation about the stigma associated with unemployment caused by the former? As you know someone who's smarter than the average bear, better ask him.[/p][/quote]anyone who's unemployed but is chasing work isn't a strain on society, Any one who through a medical reason why they can't work aren't a strain on society it's those that are quite capable of work but enjoy live on welfare & don't want to work no matter what job is offered them are a strain on society & make the genuine claimants look bad which is unfair to them & many would like to see those people using welfare as a way of living & not working forced into work. loosehead
  • Score: 2

1:19pm Fri 24 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

southy wrote:
What about the 1919 mutineers that refuse to be sent to Russia to fight in the Civil war, this as to be in the top 5 as it change the course of history. and then there the few that left here to fight in the Spanish civil war (the start of the WWII)
Thank you. I was going to ask how the Spanish civil war started a wow that started in Poland. But thanks to google I now know. Quite interesting. Thank you for giving me the curiosity to look and for helping me learning something new today.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What about the 1919 mutineers that refuse to be sent to Russia to fight in the Civil war, this as to be in the top 5 as it change the course of history. and then there the few that left here to fight in the Spanish civil war (the start of the WWII)[/p][/quote]Thank you. I was going to ask how the Spanish civil war started a wow that started in Poland. But thanks to google I now know. Quite interesting. Thank you for giving me the curiosity to look and for helping me learning something new today. southamptonadi
  • Score: 1

1:24pm Fri 24 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

Dan Kerins wrote:
wdik wrote:
yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!!
The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey
Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal.

In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom?

You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.
Having been brought up in Romney I always wondered where the canal went. Makes sense that the railway follows the route. I'm sure I knew that about the part north of Romney that's now disused. Can't think why I couldn't put 2 and 2 together. Thanks
[quote][p][bold]Dan Kerins[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wdik[/bold] wrote: yet another inaccurate article do you actually do any proper research? in 5. underwater railway you say he railway tunnel was intended as a canal tunnel WRONG!! The Canal tunnel pre dates the railway by many years !! and is in fact the main problem affecting the current tunnel. the Canal tunnel lie some 10 - 15 feet below the rail tunnel and was the cause of all the work carried out in the 1980's as the rail tunnel was collapsing into the canal tunnel below (it is well documented) the Canal was part of an actual network which linked Andover, Timsbury, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton the branches were from Redbidge to Northam (Southampton Canal) Timsbury to Salisbury (Salisbury Canal) and the Romsey. Andover and Timsbury Canal ran between Andover & Redbridge parts of hich can still be seen in Lee and North of Romsey[/p][/quote]Thanks for the feedback. As with anything there , is a payoff between 100 per cent accuracy and brevity. The railway tunnel is a foot or so above the level of the canal one (15 foot would put it well below the level of the adjacent bay), according to the government's railway surveyor of the time. The canal tunnel was going to be used for the railway until it was realised it wasn't quite suitable, so they built a 'new' tunnel which ran virtually the same route. Indeed most of the railway line between Northam and Redbridge does still run along the route of the old canal. In my mind, a tunnel replacing a tunnel on virtually the same spot is the same tunnel. Think of it as the broom with a new handle - is it still the same broom? You may disagree and perhaps want to call into question my professionalism and ability, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion on a brief introduction to the history of Southampton, and not an essay on the construction of the Southampton to Salisbury canal.[/p][/quote]Having been brought up in Romney I always wondered where the canal went. Makes sense that the railway follows the route. I'm sure I knew that about the part north of Romney that's now disused. Can't think why I couldn't put 2 and 2 together. Thanks southamptonadi
  • Score: 3

7:56pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne says...

Every Sunday at 11.00 am the Southampton Tour Guides provide a walk of the walls of the City and provide a more historically accurate explanation than a large number of posters on this thread. Go on a walk this Sunday and then come back and tell us a little of Southampton's wonderful history without needing to be offensive, rude or inaccurate.
Every Sunday at 11.00 am the Southampton Tour Guides provide a walk of the walls of the City and provide a more historically accurate explanation than a large number of posters on this thread. Go on a walk this Sunday and then come back and tell us a little of Southampton's wonderful history without needing to be offensive, rude or inaccurate. Hercules Grytpype-Thynne
  • Score: 6

8:01pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne says...

PS Walks start form the south side of the Bargate. The guides are all qualified and where a blue or green Institute of Tourist Guides' badge.

The walk includes information about the Mayflower and it's connection with Southampton.
PS Walks start form the south side of the Bargate. The guides are all qualified and where a blue or green Institute of Tourist Guides' badge. The walk includes information about the Mayflower and it's connection with Southampton. Hercules Grytpype-Thynne
  • Score: 5

8:34pm Fri 24 Jan 14

loosehead says...

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
PS Walks start form the south side of the Bargate. The guides are all qualified and where a blue or green Institute of Tourist Guides' badge.

The walk includes information about the Mayflower and it's connection with Southampton.
could you tell us more about the Mayflower?
[quote][p][bold]Hercules Grytpype-Thynne[/bold] wrote: PS Walks start form the south side of the Bargate. The guides are all qualified and where a blue or green Institute of Tourist Guides' badge. The walk includes information about the Mayflower and it's connection with Southampton.[/p][/quote]could you tell us more about the Mayflower? loosehead
  • Score: 4

8:56pm Fri 24 Jan 14

mike coll says...

I remember bargate when car and busses ran up above bar, that was into the early 70s, My late dad and uncle walked down high street the morning after a bombing, they always said it was awful, cant say soton has changed for the better, owen & owen, plumbers and Tyrell & green gone,
I wish there were less knuckle draggers in soton today, I no longer live within 1,000 miles of soton but one day I might be tempted to move back (maybe to Winchester) if only the dragger count decreased.
I remember bargate when car and busses ran up above bar, that was into the early 70s, My late dad and uncle walked down high street the morning after a bombing, they always said it was awful, cant say soton has changed for the better, owen & owen, plumbers and Tyrell & green gone, I wish there were less knuckle draggers in soton today, I no longer live within 1,000 miles of soton but one day I might be tempted to move back (maybe to Winchester) if only the dragger count decreased. mike coll
  • Score: -2

7:20am Sat 25 Jan 14

loosehead says...

I can't get over the way Southy denies our history? next he'll be saying Hamwic is in Liverpool?
I can't get over the way Southy denies our history? next he'll be saying Hamwic is in Liverpool? loosehead
  • Score: 3
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