Southampton City Council gives epic budget cuts the green light

Daily Echo: Southampton Civic Centre home of the cash-strapped city council Southampton Civic Centre home of the cash-strapped city council

More than £14m of cuts in Southampton have moved a step closer to reality.

Labour council chiefs’ budget for 2014/15 has cleared its final major hurdle before potential approval next week.

The council’s Cabinet has given the budget the green light, and the full council will now decide whether to approve it next Wednesday.

As previously revealed in the Daily Echo, council chiefs unveiled their latest budget for the city in November, with the final proposals being published last month.

The axe will fall on almost 100 jobs as part of the £14.4m cuts, which are part of £30m in overall savings.

Council tax is set to rise by 1.9 per cent, while the City Patrol service will be scrapped, trading standards will be scaled back and hours cut at the Tudor House museum.

And the city’s libraries face an uncertain future after it was announced they would undergo a 12-month review.

Consultation was carried out by council bosses before the final proposals were published last month, and they say two jobs in the museums and galleries education team have been saved as a result, while parking charges will be frozen across the city for the next three years.

Many of the savings in this year’s budget was made through “efficiencies” across all of the departments, cutting down on unnecessary costs including everything from photocopying to being more energy-efficient. Last night the Cabinet unanimously approved the budget, meaning it only needs approval from the full council next week to come into effect from April 1.

But opposition politicians have warned that next year could be worse, with the authority looking at having to make “in excess of £30m” of savings for 2015/16.

They say they fear cherished services across the city may now be threatened as Labour bosses have fewer places to find savings.

Conservative opposition leader Royston Smith had described this year’s budget as “the calm before the storm”, while Putting People First councillors Keith Morrell and Don Thomas warned that there was a “financial tsunami” facing the city next year.

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10:54am Wed 5 Feb 14

jp1707 says...

And how much money was spent on Sea City again? £5M from the heritage fund that leaves another £10M from where I wonder..?

And once again, just like then, Tudor House suffers from it. In the last few years this city has seen so much money slashed from the care of the mentally ill and the young. So many schools are full of children that need help at home and simply don't receive it.

They are all innocent victims stuck in a vicious circle that receives no help, whilst unneeded projects are pushed through to drain the funds and resources from where they are truly needed.

100 jobs to be lost, but THANK GOD they managed to save two...
And how much money was spent on Sea City again? £5M from the heritage fund that leaves another £10M from where I wonder..? And once again, just like then, Tudor House suffers from it. In the last few years this city has seen so much money slashed from the care of the mentally ill and the young. So many schools are full of children that need help at home and simply don't receive it. They are all innocent victims stuck in a vicious circle that receives no help, whilst unneeded projects are pushed through to drain the funds and resources from where they are truly needed. 100 jobs to be lost, but THANK GOD they managed to save two... jp1707

11:14am Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same. sotonboy84

11:14am Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
services stopped*
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]services stopped* sotonboy84

11:25am Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party.
So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government
Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party. So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government southy

11:25am Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without. Outside of the Box

11:33am Wed 5 Feb 14

WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER. says...

jp1707 wrote:
And how much money was spent on Sea City again? £5M from the heritage fund that leaves another £10M from where I wonder..?

And once again, just like then, Tudor House suffers from it. In the last few years this city has seen so much money slashed from the care of the mentally ill and the young. So many schools are full of children that need help at home and simply don't receive it.

They are all innocent victims stuck in a vicious circle that receives no help, whilst unneeded projects are pushed through to drain the funds and resources from where they are truly needed.

100 jobs to be lost, but THANK GOD they managed to save two...
and the trillion given to private banks , and another two uk banks on the brink of collapse ,whelk stalls come to mind.
[quote][p][bold]jp1707[/bold] wrote: And how much money was spent on Sea City again? £5M from the heritage fund that leaves another £10M from where I wonder..? And once again, just like then, Tudor House suffers from it. In the last few years this city has seen so much money slashed from the care of the mentally ill and the young. So many schools are full of children that need help at home and simply don't receive it. They are all innocent victims stuck in a vicious circle that receives no help, whilst unneeded projects are pushed through to drain the funds and resources from where they are truly needed. 100 jobs to be lost, but THANK GOD they managed to save two...[/p][/quote]and the trillion given to private banks , and another two uk banks on the brink of collapse ,whelk stalls come to mind. WILLIAM HAGUES TWIN BROTHER.

11:35am Wed 5 Feb 14

befriendly says...

It's time all councils just concentrated on providing just the basic services they are required to provide and not going of on fanciful projects they have no idea about. Anyone with he slightest knowledge of museums could have told them that after the initial surge of interest all museums stagnate and lose money, other than those staffed by unpaid volunteers. Art galleries and opera houses need massive injections of tax payers cash or lottery grants to keep going. After working in a private company office my sister got a job in the council office when the company moved. She quit after a year because it was so badly run and disorganised and the person in charge was not open to improving things.The daughter of a friend got a job in Whitehall and was told that if she had nothing to do just walk around with a folder in her hand to make it look as if she was doing something. Inefficiency, waste and complacency are what councils do best next to increasing revenue streams. We, the populace, are partly to blame though as we demand more of the council. When I was young there were no such things as preschool groups youth clubs, oap day groups and the many more things others expect as a right while moaning about the council tax rising and increased parking charges.
It's time all councils just concentrated on providing just the basic services they are required to provide and not going of on fanciful projects they have no idea about. Anyone with he slightest knowledge of museums could have told them that after the initial surge of interest all museums stagnate and lose money, other than those staffed by unpaid volunteers. Art galleries and opera houses need massive injections of tax payers cash or lottery grants to keep going. After working in a private company office my sister got a job in the council office when the company moved. She quit after a year because it was so badly run and disorganised and the person in charge was not open to improving things.The daughter of a friend got a job in Whitehall and was told that if she had nothing to do just walk around with a folder in her hand to make it look as if she was doing something. Inefficiency, waste and complacency are what councils do best next to increasing revenue streams. We, the populace, are partly to blame though as we demand more of the council. When I was young there were no such things as preschool groups youth clubs, oap day groups and the many more things others expect as a right while moaning about the council tax rising and increased parking charges. befriendly

11:43am Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
I don't feel sorry for them they have a choice all councils do, but they will not fight the Government they just roll over play dead and push though cuts.
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]I don't feel sorry for them they have a choice all councils do, but they will not fight the Government they just roll over play dead and push though cuts. southy

11:50am Wed 5 Feb 14

befriendly says...

So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises. befriendly

11:52am Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in. sotonboy84

12:08pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer. Outside of the Box

12:11pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
[quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's southy

12:15pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

befriendly the debt was not created by the ordinary people, it was created by the extremely wealthy by taking finances out of the country and investing in other country,s and extremely little in this country.
befriendly the debt was not created by the ordinary people, it was created by the extremely wealthy by taking finances out of the country and investing in other country,s and extremely little in this country. southy

12:19pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
Add to that a little. All Country's are in Debt so who is putting all the country,s in debt a very few extremely wealthy people.
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]Add to that a little. All Country's are in Debt so who is putting all the country,s in debt a very few extremely wealthy people. southy

12:26pm Wed 5 Feb 14

George4th says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis!

Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position!
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis! Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position! George4th

12:29pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work. sotonboy84

12:31pm Wed 5 Feb 14

loosehead says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working?
Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people.
We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back.
Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do.
CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place.
Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this?
Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs.
Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it?
They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%?
All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working? Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people. We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back. Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do. CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place. Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this? Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs. Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it? They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%? All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances loosehead

12:32pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

George4th wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis!

Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position!
I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis! Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position![/p][/quote]I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer. Outside of the Box

12:38pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

loosehead wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working?
Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people.
We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back.
Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do.
CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place.
Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this?
Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs.
Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it?
They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%?
All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances
Thanks for mentioning, Labour renegotiating Capitas contract, Why would they need to do that? The Tories in Southampton sorted that little gem of a contract out, before they got booted, just like they told us they wouldn't borrow money for Sea City,,,,but guess what,, they did didn't they?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working? Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people. We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back. Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do. CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place. Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this? Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs. Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it? They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%? All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances[/p][/quote]Thanks for mentioning, Labour renegotiating Capitas contract, Why would they need to do that? The Tories in Southampton sorted that little gem of a contract out, before they got booted, just like they told us they wouldn't borrow money for Sea City,,,,but guess what,, they did didn't they? Outside of the Box

12:52pm Wed 5 Feb 14

George4th says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
George4th wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis!

Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position!
I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
The point is that UK Plc was in Major Debt BEFORE the financial crisis! All as a direct result of the Labour Government Spending Too Much Money and Borrowing Too Much Money!

Just about every Labour MP has admitted that the last Labour government was incompetent in just about every area! They cannot name one area where they were successful other than spending our money wastefully!
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis! Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position![/p][/quote]I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]The point is that UK Plc was in Major Debt BEFORE the financial crisis! All as a direct result of the Labour Government Spending Too Much Money and Borrowing Too Much Money! Just about every Labour MP has admitted that the last Labour government was incompetent in just about every area! They cannot name one area where they were successful other than spending our money wastefully! George4th

1:15pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Torchie1 says...

southy wrote:
Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party.
So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government
If the outlook is so rosy for the electorate under Tusc, then you won't need to worry about 'Elvis loves Pets' and other similar groups at the next election, or will you?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party. So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government[/p][/quote]If the outlook is so rosy for the electorate under Tusc, then you won't need to worry about 'Elvis loves Pets' and other similar groups at the next election, or will you? Torchie1

1:21pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that.

I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.[/p][/quote]I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that. I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair. Outside of the Box

1:27pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Basic rule of any economy depends on people spending, and for that they need work and time to be able to spend.
Well that,s not going to happen in any system that makes you work longer in life, makes you work longer hours per week, under paid or forces people to be unemployed, when this starts to happen the system is broken
Basic rule of any economy depends on people spending, and for that they need work and time to be able to spend. Well that,s not going to happen in any system that makes you work longer in life, makes you work longer hours per week, under paid or forces people to be unemployed, when this starts to happen the system is broken southy

1:40pm Wed 5 Feb 14

KSO16R says...

loosehead wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working?
Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people.
We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back.
Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do.
CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place.
Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this?
Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs.
Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it?
They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%?
All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances
It was labour who increased tax to 50% for incomes over £150k just before last election. Not even gonna bother with the rest of your post.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels. GDP going up. inflation down cutting the debt happening so again hows it not working? Under Labour the top rate of tax was 40p the Coalition put it up short term to 50p but then lowered it to 45p which is still higher than Labour & by dropping it 5p we have companies looking to expand taking on more people. We have Lloyds close to being able to be sold & our money back. Get the other banks into that position & hey the debt is coming down quicker than Labour would have done so Osborne has done exactly what Labour said his policies wouldn't do. CBI has stated later in the year it expects pay rises at above inflation to take place. Threshold of tax increased to £10,000 so giving every one a pay rise yet you forget this? Royston said with the pay cuts we were in a good place to weather the storm with no cuts to front line services & only very minimal cuts in jobs. Labour hasn't yet restored pay fully but had £3million in the fund to fight court action another £3million in the bank which again they used to restore pay plus the millions they saved on renegotiating Capitas contract approximately £10 million & they are only half way through doing it? They have announced the 1.9% tax increase is to give pay rises to the staff yet some idiot wants it to go above 2%? All said & one Labour has made a total b++lls up with our cities finances[/p][/quote]It was labour who increased tax to 50% for incomes over £150k just before last election. Not even gonna bother with the rest of your post. KSO16R

1:51pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Loose said "Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels"
Loose are you for real Unemployment during and after WWII was next to nil, at the moment its above the high peak of the 80's, Youth short term unemployment is falling a little but its still above 1.2 million, Youth long term unemployment close to 3 million and then there,s the adult short term and long term to be added on taking the unemployment well over 6 million
Loose said "Not worked? are you for real? Unemployment down to WW2 levels" Loose are you for real Unemployment during and after WWII was next to nil, at the moment its above the high peak of the 80's, Youth short term unemployment is falling a little but its still above 1.2 million, Youth long term unemployment close to 3 million and then there,s the adult short term and long term to be added on taking the unemployment well over 6 million southy

1:58pm Wed 5 Feb 14

allstar says...

So they can start by slashing the salaries of some of the overpaid managers , Making the people pay that currently enjoy the free parking provided by the council , The council leaders are like pigs with their snouts in the trough , Remember it is our money that they waste not theirs !!
So they can start by slashing the salaries of some of the overpaid managers , Making the people pay that currently enjoy the free parking provided by the council , The council leaders are like pigs with their snouts in the trough , Remember it is our money that they waste not theirs !! allstar

1:59pm Wed 5 Feb 14

KSO16R says...

Forget the unemployement/jobs created rubbish. Most of the jobs created are either part time, low paid, or zero hour contract, and the government know it. Scared stiff to have an interest rate rise even though they know it is needed. Election time soon. Nothing of substance created apart from acceptance by some of tory ideology
Forget the unemployement/jobs created rubbish. Most of the jobs created are either part time, low paid, or zero hour contract, and the government know it. Scared stiff to have an interest rate rise even though they know it is needed. Election time soon. Nothing of substance created apart from acceptance by some of tory ideology KSO16R

2:38pm Wed 5 Feb 14

eurogordi says...

During the last 24 hours I have had to speak to Southampton City Council about a very vulnerable person who lives within the city and is in need of immediate help from social services. I was told that there is no provision to support this person anymore ... and then I read this article! It's a total disgrace.
During the last 24 hours I have had to speak to Southampton City Council about a very vulnerable person who lives within the city and is in need of immediate help from social services. I was told that there is no provision to support this person anymore ... and then I read this article! It's a total disgrace. eurogordi

2:42pm Wed 5 Feb 14

George4th says...

You get all these platitudes from moaning, groaning, "life owes me a living" Labour supporters and yet a simple fact is that millions of immigrants come to this country and make a decent life for themselves, most starting with nothing!.

All many of the "indigenous" (debatable) population do, encouraged by Labour ideology, is bemoan their lot!
You get all these platitudes from moaning, groaning, "life owes me a living" Labour supporters and yet a simple fact is that millions of immigrants come to this country and make a decent life for themselves, most starting with nothing!. All many of the "indigenous" (debatable) population do, encouraged by Labour ideology, is bemoan their lot! George4th

2:46pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that.

I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.
The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.[/p][/quote]I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that. I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.[/p][/quote]The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press. sotonboy84

2:51pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

The former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, has reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left".
The former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, has reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left". Dai Rear

3:13pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

George4th wrote:
You get all these platitudes from moaning, groaning, "life owes me a living" Labour supporters and yet a simple fact is that millions of immigrants come to this country and make a decent life for themselves, most starting with nothing!.

All many of the "indigenous" (debatable) population do, encouraged by Labour ideology, is bemoan their lot!
Couldn't agree more and it's these people that target immigrants as just another avenue of blame to point to for their own inadequacies. There are a number of immigrants that come to the UK to claim benefits and this is being addressed but there are many immigrants that come to the UK and contribute to our country and our economy which are forgotten.

Those that chose not to work deserve nothing as they don't contribute a single thing to the country, they just take and are a huge contributor to why the UK is in a mess. I know I would rather have hard working immigrants in the UK over lazy, ignorant, lay about scroungers who think they have a birth right to a taxpayer funded existence.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: You get all these platitudes from moaning, groaning, "life owes me a living" Labour supporters and yet a simple fact is that millions of immigrants come to this country and make a decent life for themselves, most starting with nothing!. All many of the "indigenous" (debatable) population do, encouraged by Labour ideology, is bemoan their lot![/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more and it's these people that target immigrants as just another avenue of blame to point to for their own inadequacies. There are a number of immigrants that come to the UK to claim benefits and this is being addressed but there are many immigrants that come to the UK and contribute to our country and our economy which are forgotten. Those that chose not to work deserve nothing as they don't contribute a single thing to the country, they just take and are a huge contributor to why the UK is in a mess. I know I would rather have hard working immigrants in the UK over lazy, ignorant, lay about scroungers who think they have a birth right to a taxpayer funded existence. sotonboy84

3:13pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable Lone Ranger.

3:19pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Outside of the Box says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that.

I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.
The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.
Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in?
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.[/p][/quote]I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that. I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.[/p][/quote]The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.[/p][/quote]Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in? Outside of the Box

3:23pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out. sotonboy84

3:25pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that.

I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.
The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.
Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in?
As your view is based solely on presumption, another presumption is that maybe there are far more people committing benefit fraud than tax avoidence?
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.[/p][/quote]I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that. I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.[/p][/quote]The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.[/p][/quote]Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in?[/p][/quote]As your view is based solely on presumption, another presumption is that maybe there are far more people committing benefit fraud than tax avoidence? sotonboy84

3:46pm Wed 5 Feb 14

redsnapper says...

George4th wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis!

Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position!
George- have you got alzheimers?
Labour had to spend to fix the decimation of schools, hospitals and infrastructure left by Thatcher's legacy.

That woman ruined this countries manufacturing industry and just about privatised everything she could lay her hands which then resulted in all those companies being snapped up by foreign owners as the British management and British boards sold assets for nothing so they could fill their boots.

We now have a low grade service economy which cannot finance anything out of tax collected.

Get real there is nothing Great left in Great Britain thanks to our greedy politicians of all colours.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis! Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position![/p][/quote]George- have you got alzheimers? Labour had to spend to fix the decimation of schools, hospitals and infrastructure left by Thatcher's legacy. That woman ruined this countries manufacturing industry and just about privatised everything she could lay her hands which then resulted in all those companies being snapped up by foreign owners as the British management and British boards sold assets for nothing so they could fill their boots. We now have a low grade service economy which cannot finance anything out of tax collected. Get real there is nothing Great left in Great Britain thanks to our greedy politicians of all colours. redsnapper

3:47pm Wed 5 Feb 14

bigfella777 says...

I would be quite happy for council tax to go up 10% if it means the city would be run properly. If I can afford so can others.
I would be quite happy for council tax to go up 10% if it means the city would be run properly. If I can afford so can others. bigfella777

3:49pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Hope unlike at last year's budget meeting, when NuLabour Councillor Burke was the Mayor who denied Cllr. Keith Morrell and Cllr. Don Thomas their right to move their alternative budget, this year the Tory Mayor will allow them to exercise their democratic right.

I can't imagine other three parties, which have lot in common, supporting Don and Keith but in democracy their right to put their ideas for vote must be respected.

As NuLabour has enough councillors who behave like sheep, they will follow their Leader they will vote for increasing the Counci Tax and decreasing services plus destruction of more jobs.

Real cause of financial problems of most Councils is the attitude of central government. Although at one time current Leader of Southampton Council moved a motion (which I think was passed) to organise against policy of central govt, he has not informed the people about any progress on that. In fact when Councillors Morrell and Thomas tried to move a similar motion in the Council once again, Cllr. Letts and his self serving opportunist and unprincipled colleagues voted that motion down.

With record like that how can the NuLabourites have the cheek to hide behind the excuse of hardship created by London government when they are gladly willing to keep on implementing the harsh policies with great enthusiasm?
Hope unlike at last year's budget meeting, when NuLabour Councillor Burke was the Mayor who denied Cllr. Keith Morrell and Cllr. Don Thomas their right to move their alternative budget, this year the Tory Mayor will allow them to exercise their democratic right. I can't imagine other three parties, which have lot in common, supporting Don and Keith but in democracy their right to put their ideas for vote must be respected. As NuLabour has enough councillors who behave like sheep, they will follow their Leader they will vote for increasing the Counci Tax and decreasing services plus destruction of more jobs. Real cause of financial problems of most Councils is the attitude of central government. Although at one time current Leader of Southampton Council moved a motion (which I think was passed) to organise against policy of central govt, he has not informed the people about any progress on that. In fact when Councillors Morrell and Thomas tried to move a similar motion in the Council once again, Cllr. Letts and his self serving opportunist and unprincipled colleagues voted that motion down. With record like that how can the NuLabourites have the cheek to hide behind the excuse of hardship created by London government when they are gladly willing to keep on implementing the harsh policies with great enthusiasm? Paramjit Bahia

4:14pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party.
So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government
Peter you are right, I was at the meeting you have mentioned. But that was when the NuLabourites were in opposition, so were playing the same old tricks for securing working class votes.

They have always told people what ordinary folks want to hear but when get in power end up towing same Tory policies or as told to do by highly paid pen pushers.

So Simon Letts is only following the well rehearsed tradition of betrayal and dishonesty, which is most important part of Thatcherised NuLabour's DNA.

That is why the NuLabourites in Southampton are destroying whatever survived the cuts of last Tory administration.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Well the TUSC did make the warning over the cuts, even after Councilor Simon Letts attended a TUSC meeting saying that they would fight the government with other councils and wanted the TUSC to stand down and give them a free run with out giving any thing after asking to take, so what happen to that Labour council they just rolled over and made the council cut and not a thing was done to fight the government, only 2 Don and Keith said no to cuts and they get punished for doing so, the only 2 decent councilors in Southampton councils, Labour as become just another Tory party. So who can we trust in the political world, well we know the Greens will implement cuts with out a fight and we know UKIP will also as they have voted for cuts where they do have councilors, that only leaves TUSC who will say no to any cuts and fight the government tooth and nail and try and get more out of the government[/p][/quote]Peter you are right, I was at the meeting you have mentioned. But that was when the NuLabourites were in opposition, so were playing the same old tricks for securing working class votes. They have always told people what ordinary folks want to hear but when get in power end up towing same Tory policies or as told to do by highly paid pen pushers. So Simon Letts is only following the well rehearsed tradition of betrayal and dishonesty, which is most important part of Thatcherised NuLabour's DNA. That is why the NuLabourites in Southampton are destroying whatever survived the cuts of last Tory administration. Paramjit Bahia

4:22pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Graeme Harrison says...

southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society Graeme Harrison

4:24pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Graeme Harrison says...

bigfella777 wrote:
I would be quite happy for council tax to go up 10% if it means the city would be run properly. If I can afford so can others.
Which statement is a fine example of what is known as a non sequitur.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: I would be quite happy for council tax to go up 10% if it means the city would be run properly. If I can afford so can others.[/p][/quote]Which statement is a fine example of what is known as a non sequitur. Graeme Harrison

4:40pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.
The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same

Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.
And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about!

I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government.

Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example.

So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.
I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that.

I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.
The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.
Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in?
One hopes they're more interested in criminals than people who are behaving legally. Would your Socialist State pursue the honest and let the thieves be? Don't answer that one; "Vote Labour-Love Thieves" would be an interesting slogan
[quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]But the country is still in debt, made far worse by the previous Labour government so if anybody's to blame it's them. Cuts have to be made everywhere, money can't just be grown on trees to stop cuts to local authorities. It starts from the top and works its way down and is the only way to repay the enormous debt this country is in.[/p][/quote]The country is in debt, the rest of the world is in debt, I suppose the that's the last Governments fault as well, quite frankly I'm sick of the blame game, this current lot have been in power long to put policies in place to reduce the debt which it hasn't, borrowing may have reduced but the debt remains the same Osborne's policies have not worked, plain and simply, by the way, if we are so skint why are the Tories proposing another 5p deduction in the top rate of income tax,,,,,oh yes looking after their filthy rich friends while the the rest of the country suffer.[/p][/quote]And what rock have you been under – there are plenty of polices in place to reduce the debt and this is what all the career scroungers (for example) are moaning about! I didn't blame the debt on the previous Labour government, if you re-read my post I said it was made 'far worse' by the previous Labour government. Too many people make excuses for their own inadequacies and refusal to work and a popular reason to blame is tax cuts because it's always somebody else's fault rather than their own. I won't bother arguing with views like yours because you share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" rather than looking at the bigger picture and realise what is best for the country as a whole. But, I will explain the logic behind tax reduction. Tax reductions for large businesses are a way of keeping them paying tax in the UK and not moving abroad so we benefit from their tax rather than losing all of it. The same applies to a tax reduction for high earners, the current tax is damaging the UK economy by deterring investors and entrepreneurs, for example. So, if you look beyond what's best for you, and what's best for your next door neighbour and look at what's best for the country as a whole, you will see why tax cuts work.[/p][/quote]I don't not share the ignorant views of those dependent on the state which is "what about me" I share the view that excuse after excuse, after excuse, blame someone else for the mess, is not productive for anyone, it high time the blame game stopped and the powers that be just be honest and tell us it will take longer and longer to fix it, the UK debt has not reduced, no one argue with that. I get the tax deduction for large business, what I don't get the tax avoidance that this Government allow multi nationals to get away without paying, the superich individuals will also benefit from it, which in times of austerity and cutting almost everything to the quick seems unfair.[/p][/quote]The current government is tactling both tax avoidance and the huge benefits bill together, not one or the other but both, amongst other things. They're not targeting benefit claimants and turning a blind eye to tax avoidance, this is just a media frenzy drummed up by the left wing press.[/p][/quote]Obviously the Government are working on Tax avoidance and the benefits bills, here are the number of staff working in the respective departments, HMRC Tax Avoidance Investigation Team = 300 employees countrywide and the DWP Fraud Investigation Team = 3000 employees countrywide, which one do you think this Government are more interested in?[/p][/quote]One hopes they're more interested in criminals than people who are behaving legally. Would your Socialist State pursue the honest and let the thieves be? Don't answer that one; "Vote Labour-Love Thieves" would be an interesting slogan Dai Rear

4:49pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.[/p][/quote]............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... Lone Ranger.

4:51pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........
zzzzz
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.[/p][/quote]............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........[/p][/quote]zzzzz sotonboy84

4:59pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........
zzzzz
Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk".
.
........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.[/p][/quote]............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........[/p][/quote]zzzzz[/p][/quote]Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk". . ........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh Lone Ranger.

5:05pm Wed 5 Feb 14

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........
zzzzz
Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk".
.
........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh
Not at all, I made my point (a good one) and all you could retort was repeat the same boring crap you did earlier. "zzzzz" was to express how you and your posts bore me. Now jog along and come back when you can join a debate (a debate isn't attacking anybody that doesn't support Labour by the way…).
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.[/p][/quote]............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........[/p][/quote]zzzzz[/p][/quote]Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk". . ........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh[/p][/quote]Not at all, I made my point (a good one) and all you could retort was repeat the same boring crap you did earlier. "zzzzz" was to express how you and your posts bore me. Now jog along and come back when you can join a debate (a debate isn't attacking anybody that doesn't support Labour by the way…). sotonboy84

5:13pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
[quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse southy

5:23pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

One thing for sure the Torys have live up to every time they been in office and that is there nick name.
Tory's the party of high unemployment and in my life time its been true the case every time there,s been a Tory.s government.
The Tory,s are not that interested in Tax avoidance in fact they are not doing any thing about Tax Avoidance, they prefer to go after where the smaller amounts of money is being taking away from the state, the Tax evaders and the very small number of benefit cheats.
But then are you surprise about it I not as the PM and his Cabinet are all Tax avoider,s that are part of the lost £180 billion that is lost in tax returns by your millionaires that keep over £1 Tillion in tax free banking
One thing for sure the Torys have live up to every time they been in office and that is there nick name. Tory's the party of high unemployment and in my life time its been true the case every time there,s been a Tory.s government. The Tory,s are not that interested in Tax avoidance in fact they are not doing any thing about Tax Avoidance, they prefer to go after where the smaller amounts of money is being taking away from the state, the Tax evaders and the very small number of benefit cheats. But then are you surprise about it I not as the PM and his Cabinet are all Tax avoider,s that are part of the lost £180 billion that is lost in tax returns by your millionaires that keep over £1 Tillion in tax free banking southy

5:36pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it.

If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.
Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them.
.
........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable
Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.
............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........
zzzzz
Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk".
.
........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh
Not at all, I made my point (a good one) and all you could retort was repeat the same boring crap you did earlier. "zzzzz" was to express how you and your posts bore me. Now jog along and come back when you can join a debate (a debate isn't attacking anybody that doesn't support Labour by the way…).
I dont think that i attacked you ....... but clearly pointed out how you would vote again ........ seems thats the bit you didnt like .....
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Cutting services, reducing museum opening hours, reduced library services undoubtedly to follow, council tax to rise, services toppoed for the elderly and disabled but yet this useless bunch find £1.7 million to re-open Oaklands swimming pool when the city already have a number of swimming pools in the city. Absolutely mindless and nothing else to it. If my council tax is to rise, I would prefer it to be supporting services across the city and not re-opening a swimming pool which we have plenty of. I will certainly be voting this bunch of idiots out and urge anybody else to that wants to see this city run properly to do the same.[/p][/quote]Whether your council tax rises or not you would vote against them. . ........ and then voteback in the most useless council we have had a decade ......... You are sooooo predicable[/p][/quote]Rising council tax is the least of my concerns if it's being used to fund services and run the city. Funding £1.7 million to re-open a city pool, which we have a number of does not fit any of these categories so is just another display of Labour's total incompetence and how out of touch they are with those that pay taxes and just another reason (amongst sooooo many) to vote them out.[/p][/quote]............ I repeat ......... and then vote back in the most useless council we have had a decade .........[/p][/quote]zzzzz[/p][/quote]Oh dear what a pity that once again, being short of an answer, you resort to comic book "talk". . ........ But perhaps you find that when someone puts the truth to you its a little hard to take ....... the you slip into hibernation ... hoping that it is all gone away when you wake up ...... aaahh[/p][/quote]Not at all, I made my point (a good one) and all you could retort was repeat the same boring crap you did earlier. "zzzzz" was to express how you and your posts bore me. Now jog along and come back when you can join a debate (a debate isn't attacking anybody that doesn't support Labour by the way…).[/p][/quote]I dont think that i attacked you ....... but clearly pointed out how you would vote again ........ seems thats the bit you didnt like ..... Lone Ranger.

5:37pm Wed 5 Feb 14

good-gosh says...

southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Its all very interesting discussing history but the fact remains that huge debts exist. And the only way to reduce debt is to pay it off. Paying it off means drastic reduction in spending for the time being.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Its all very interesting discussing history but the fact remains that huge debts exist. And the only way to reduce debt is to pay it off. Paying it off means drastic reduction in spending for the time being. good-gosh

5:40pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

over £1 Tillion in tax free banking
A £1 Tillion. Wow Southy. I found one of those in my grandson's Lego box and I thought it was the only one in the world.
The "lost £180 billion" Southy. I bet your Trots would soon shoot that fox. Lock 'em up in the gulag, confiscate all their dosh and give it to.....well the commissars of course. You won't believe the true figures for what more successful people pay in taxes that are, for example, definitely not being spent on flood defence but definitely are being spent on "overseas aid" (Mercs for dictators) so I'll not bore you with it, but then I guess you think State spending and Mercs for dictators is whizzzo, don't you?
over £1 Tillion in tax free banking A £1 Tillion. Wow Southy. I found one of those in my grandson's Lego box and I thought it was the only one in the world. The "lost £180 billion" Southy. I bet your Trots would soon shoot that fox. Lock 'em up in the gulag, confiscate all their dosh and give it to.....well the commissars of course. You won't believe the true figures for what more successful people pay in taxes that are, for example, definitely not being spent on flood defence but definitely are being spent on "overseas aid" (Mercs for dictators) so I'll not bore you with it, but then I guess you think State spending and Mercs for dictators is whizzzo, don't you? Dai Rear

6:31pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Torchie1 says...

southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Talking out of your backside again. In 1816 the National Debt was 237% of GDP and the rest of the century was spent reducing it. Is there any subject that you aren't prepared to make up story's about and hope that no-one will check up on your 'facts' and expose your fraudulent claims once again, and again, and again?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Talking out of your backside again. In 1816 the National Debt was 237% of GDP and the rest of the century was spent reducing it. Is there any subject that you aren't prepared to make up story's about and hope that no-one will check up on your 'facts' and expose your fraudulent claims once again, and again, and again? Torchie1

6:55pm Wed 5 Feb 14

George4th says...

redsnapper wrote:
George4th wrote:
Outside of the Box wrote:
I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending.

The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man.

Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.
OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis!

Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position!
George- have you got alzheimers?
Labour had to spend to fix the decimation of schools, hospitals and infrastructure left by Thatcher's legacy.

That woman ruined this countries manufacturing industry and just about privatised everything she could lay her hands which then resulted in all those companies being snapped up by foreign owners as the British management and British boards sold assets for nothing so they could fill their boots.

We now have a low grade service economy which cannot finance anything out of tax collected.

Get real there is nothing Great left in Great Britain thanks to our greedy politicians of all colours.
UK Plc was BANKRUPT when Margaret Thatcher came to power...........than
ks to the previous Labour Government - a pattern they followed with the Blair/Browne governments!

The IMF have offered UK Plc the use of their offices if ever Labour get back into government!!

Note:-
The Unions ruined the our Major Industries by holding back modernisation until it was too late!
[quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Outside of the Box[/bold] wrote: I actually feel sorry for council, regardless of who's in power they have been cut to the core by the Governments mindless attack on local authority spending. The blame for these cuts lays fairly and squarely at the door of 11 Downing Street ( George Osborne) and the Department for Local Government (Eric Pickles) all councils regardless of which side of the political spectrum have been virtually crippled by a Government hell bent on privatising every service known to man. Filthy rich Tories telling us we are All in this Together, when those who cannot afford services will go without.[/p][/quote]OK, let's go back to a Labour government who saddled us with the LARGEST DEFICIT of any Western Country BEFORE the financial crisis! Labour's Spend Spend Spend Spend Spend, like there's no tomorrow, is why we got into this position![/p][/quote]George- have you got alzheimers? Labour had to spend to fix the decimation of schools, hospitals and infrastructure left by Thatcher's legacy. That woman ruined this countries manufacturing industry and just about privatised everything she could lay her hands which then resulted in all those companies being snapped up by foreign owners as the British management and British boards sold assets for nothing so they could fill their boots. We now have a low grade service economy which cannot finance anything out of tax collected. Get real there is nothing Great left in Great Britain thanks to our greedy politicians of all colours.[/p][/quote]UK Plc was BANKRUPT when Margaret Thatcher came to power...........than ks to the previous Labour Government - a pattern they followed with the Blair/Browne governments! The IMF have offered UK Plc the use of their offices if ever Labour get back into government!! Note:- The Unions ruined the our Major Industries by holding back modernisation until it was too late! George4th

6:57pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Minger1 says...

if this country is in that amount of debt how come the country has millions to give to others to help them out surely we should be saying no we don't have it.
if this country is in that amount of debt how come the country has millions to give to others to help them out surely we should be saying no we don't have it. Minger1

8:25pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

good-gosh wrote:
southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Its all very interesting discussing history but the fact remains that huge debts exist. And the only way to reduce debt is to pay it off. Paying it off means drastic reduction in spending for the time being.
The idea if you know where the problem was cause and what was the problem then you are able to fix things by removing that what is causing the problem, the debt is not ours it was created by the extremely wealthy for us to pay, make those that created the debt pay for it and not expect every one else to do so.
This is the benefit of knowing your history, you learn by it.
You reduce spending then you going to lose jobs. jobs where the money is put into the economy, its a circle break that circle and the debt don't go away it gets bigger
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Its all very interesting discussing history but the fact remains that huge debts exist. And the only way to reduce debt is to pay it off. Paying it off means drastic reduction in spending for the time being.[/p][/quote]The idea if you know where the problem was cause and what was the problem then you are able to fix things by removing that what is causing the problem, the debt is not ours it was created by the extremely wealthy for us to pay, make those that created the debt pay for it and not expect every one else to do so. This is the benefit of knowing your history, you learn by it. You reduce spending then you going to lose jobs. jobs where the money is put into the economy, its a circle break that circle and the debt don't go away it gets bigger southy

8:38pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Torchie1 wrote:
southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Talking out of your backside again. In 1816 the National Debt was 237% of GDP and the rest of the century was spent reducing it. Is there any subject that you aren't prepared to make up story's about and hope that no-one will check up on your 'facts' and expose your fraudulent claims once again, and again, and again?
Stop your BS Torchie there was no national debt till 1914, when the Bank of England PLC took over the printing, minting of money it went from state control to private control and the creating of money that was not there.
Before 1914 the system was different, like who paid taxes and who was allowed to vote for a political party, Not every one was allowed to vote before 1914, and go back to 1816 the only people that payed taxes was bosses, landowners and business owners, if you work for some one you did not pay taxes, The only people who where allowed to vote back then was very limited and if you was allowed to vote you paid taxes
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Talking out of your backside again. In 1816 the National Debt was 237% of GDP and the rest of the century was spent reducing it. Is there any subject that you aren't prepared to make up story's about and hope that no-one will check up on your 'facts' and expose your fraudulent claims once again, and again, and again?[/p][/quote]Stop your BS Torchie there was no national debt till 1914, when the Bank of England PLC took over the printing, minting of money it went from state control to private control and the creating of money that was not there. Before 1914 the system was different, like who paid taxes and who was allowed to vote for a political party, Not every one was allowed to vote before 1914, and go back to 1816 the only people that payed taxes was bosses, landowners and business owners, if you work for some one you did not pay taxes, The only people who where allowed to vote back then was very limited and if you was allowed to vote you paid taxes southy

8:55pm Wed 5 Feb 14

southy says...

Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes
Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes southy

12:46am Thu 6 Feb 14

Torchie1 says...

southy wrote:
Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes
Already you are backtracking as you doubt your own earlier reply. I'm not going to argue but allow anyone with half a brain to search for 'UK National Debt' and they'll be able to find information going back to 1692 where it was called the National Debt even then. Not often right but you're wrong once again, give up and find a less taxing way of embarrassing yourself.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes[/p][/quote]Already you are backtracking as you doubt your own earlier reply. I'm not going to argue but allow anyone with half a brain to search for 'UK National Debt' and they'll be able to find information going back to 1692 where it was called the National Debt even then. Not often right but you're wrong once again, give up and find a less taxing way of embarrassing yourself. Torchie1

10:57am Thu 6 Feb 14

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish
The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that)
William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function.
Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars.
In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world
I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that) William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function. Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars. In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit. phil maccavity

11:50am Thu 6 Feb 14

southy says...

Torchie1 wrote:
southy wrote:
Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes
Already you are backtracking as you doubt your own earlier reply. I'm not going to argue but allow anyone with half a brain to search for 'UK National Debt' and they'll be able to find information going back to 1692 where it was called the National Debt even then. Not often right but you're wrong once again, give up and find a less taxing way of embarrassing yourself.
The national debt was not around before 1914, this was the year when the system change, ordinary workers was starting to be tax for the first time on a regular basis, before this date ordinary workers was not being tax, unless you was able to vote, Learn your History, there was debt but it was not a National debt, and all your trying to do is apply a modern system of thinking to a system that was totally different, A national Debt is when every one pays the Country debt, back in 1692 the debt was a business debt or a Government debt or a crown debt. I more often right that you saying or your doing and others like you apply modern terms to old out of date system that no longer excise. Read up on your history from books and not the internet on such subjects, as the internet is often using the wrong terms, and its people like you who make such posts of information with out learning your real history.
Check it up in books and you will never see the word national debt before 1914.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Torchie the 1816 debt was a war debt to be paid for, it was a loan from the Rothchilds to pay for Wellington Army in the Napoleonic war, these debts was all ways paid for out of taxes[/p][/quote]Already you are backtracking as you doubt your own earlier reply. I'm not going to argue but allow anyone with half a brain to search for 'UK National Debt' and they'll be able to find information going back to 1692 where it was called the National Debt even then. Not often right but you're wrong once again, give up and find a less taxing way of embarrassing yourself.[/p][/quote]The national debt was not around before 1914, this was the year when the system change, ordinary workers was starting to be tax for the first time on a regular basis, before this date ordinary workers was not being tax, unless you was able to vote, Learn your History, there was debt but it was not a National debt, and all your trying to do is apply a modern system of thinking to a system that was totally different, A national Debt is when every one pays the Country debt, back in 1692 the debt was a business debt or a Government debt or a crown debt. I more often right that you saying or your doing and others like you apply modern terms to old out of date system that no longer excise. Read up on your history from books and not the internet on such subjects, as the internet is often using the wrong terms, and its people like you who make such posts of information with out learning your real history. Check it up in books and you will never see the word national debt before 1914. southy

12:30pm Thu 6 Feb 14

southy says...

phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish
The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that)
William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function.
Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars.
In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world
I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit.
No it do not Phil you check any History book printed before say 1980 and you will not see the word National Debt before 1914, It was a Government Debt or a Crown debt or a business debt before 1914, the applying the word National for debts before 1914 is wrong, National debt imply,s for every person of working age to pay tax, adult males and females and young workers and this only started in 1914, before then only those who could vote paid taxes.
1832 saw a major change to with the increasing the numbers who could vote and pay taxes rise 38% to 720,784 out of a population of 10,000,000 of voting age.
1867 see another major change it allowed 2,500,000 men to vote and pay taxes "only in the boroughs"
1884 see another major change 50% of adult men over the age of 21 to vote and pay taxes
1914 see the introduction of taxes to all over the age (male and female) of 15, and the National Debt was created, (this was the year when every worker paid taxes which paid for the debt of business, Government and Crown it was all rolled into one to become the national debt), and this was down to the big finance banker talking government into making changes into there favour, this same system was all ready in operation in the USA.
the rest should be basic knowledge to all, like Russian women allowed to vote and be in government in 1917, Britain followed suit a year later but women had to be over the age of 25, then lowed in 1928 to the age of 21 in line with men, and it stayed basically the same till 1970 when voting was lowered to 18, but to be an MP the age remain the same at 21.
Up to this point voting and taxes was inline with each other
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that) William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function. Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars. In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit.[/p][/quote]No it do not Phil you check any History book printed before say 1980 and you will not see the word National Debt before 1914, It was a Government Debt or a Crown debt or a business debt before 1914, the applying the word National for debts before 1914 is wrong, National debt imply,s for every person of working age to pay tax, adult males and females and young workers and this only started in 1914, before then only those who could vote paid taxes. 1832 saw a major change to with the increasing the numbers who could vote and pay taxes rise 38% to 720,784 out of a population of 10,000,000 of voting age. 1867 see another major change it allowed 2,500,000 men to vote and pay taxes "only in the boroughs" 1884 see another major change 50% of adult men over the age of 21 to vote and pay taxes 1914 see the introduction of taxes to all over the age (male and female) of 15, and the National Debt was created, (this was the year when every worker paid taxes which paid for the debt of business, Government and Crown it was all rolled into one to become the national debt), and this was down to the big finance banker talking government into making changes into there favour, this same system was all ready in operation in the USA. the rest should be basic knowledge to all, like Russian women allowed to vote and be in government in 1917, Britain followed suit a year later but women had to be over the age of 25, then lowed in 1928 to the age of 21 in line with men, and it stayed basically the same till 1970 when voting was lowered to 18, but to be an MP the age remain the same at 21. Up to this point voting and taxes was inline with each other southy

12:37pm Thu 6 Feb 14

southy says...

You can not apply modern thinking methods to old methods of thinking the Tax and voting as changed and that,s what you phil and torchie are doing, but I expect your reading it of the internet put up by some modern day finance historian who is applying the words that are used today to explain some thing that was completely different system it just don't work it will give you false figures every time.
You can not apply modern thinking methods to old methods of thinking the Tax and voting as changed and that,s what you phil and torchie are doing, but I expect your reading it of the internet put up by some modern day finance historian who is applying the words that are used today to explain some thing that was completely different system it just don't work it will give you false figures every time. southy

12:44pm Thu 6 Feb 14

southy says...

And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created
And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created southy

12:56pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created
Found out again Peter.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created[/p][/quote]Found out again Peter. Shoong

1:08pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Torchie1 says...

Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created
Found out again Peter.
But not man enough to admit it as usual. I struggle to understand the mentality of someone who publicly argues that black is white when a five year old can check the facts. We'll probably be able to enjoy the whole sorry spectacle on Southy's own internet page in the near future.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And the National debt that,s been created was and is done by the banking financiers and no one else, but they expect the tax payers to pay up for the debt that they created[/p][/quote]Found out again Peter.[/p][/quote]But not man enough to admit it as usual. I struggle to understand the mentality of someone who publicly argues that black is white when a five year old can check the facts. We'll probably be able to enjoy the whole sorry spectacle on Southy's own internet page in the near future. Torchie1

1:46pm Thu 6 Feb 14

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
You can not apply modern thinking methods to old methods of thinking the Tax and voting as changed and that,s what you phil and torchie are doing, but I expect your reading it of the internet put up by some modern day finance historian who is applying the words that are used today to explain some thing that was completely different system it just don't work it will give you false figures every time.
Southy
Your comment about researching information on the Internet is a bit rich when your earlier post was obviously taken off this or a similar source of information
I also remember the letter you wrote to the comment page of the Echo a year or two back which had been taken verbatim from someone else's posting
Anyway going back to the matter of Income Tax, you can look at information available at the National Archives facility at Kew which will tell you that Income Tax was originally brought in by Pitt the Younger in 1799 to pay for the Napoleonic Wars and was levied at 10% on all annual incomes over £60.
Robert Peel tried to get rid of the Tax in the 1840's but had to renew it due the crisis of failed Railways Companies and increased national expenditure.
National Debt may have been referred to as Sovereign Debt prior to 1914 but irrespective of the title used it refers to the same amount of money.
Finally what is your definition of a 'worker'?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: You can not apply modern thinking methods to old methods of thinking the Tax and voting as changed and that,s what you phil and torchie are doing, but I expect your reading it of the internet put up by some modern day finance historian who is applying the words that are used today to explain some thing that was completely different system it just don't work it will give you false figures every time.[/p][/quote]Southy Your comment about researching information on the Internet is a bit rich when your earlier post was obviously taken off this or a similar source of information I also remember the letter you wrote to the comment page of the Echo a year or two back which had been taken verbatim from someone else's posting Anyway going back to the matter of Income Tax, you can look at information available at the National Archives facility at Kew which will tell you that Income Tax was originally brought in by Pitt the Younger in 1799 to pay for the Napoleonic Wars and was levied at 10% on all annual incomes over £60. Robert Peel tried to get rid of the Tax in the 1840's but had to renew it due the crisis of failed Railways Companies and increased national expenditure. National Debt may have been referred to as Sovereign Debt prior to 1914 but irrespective of the title used it refers to the same amount of money. Finally what is your definition of a 'worker'? phil maccavity

1:48pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Torchie1 says...

southy wrote:
phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
Graeme Harrison wrote:
southy wrote:
befriendly wrote:
So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.
Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's
In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919.
Source: Royal Economic Society
Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse
Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish
The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that)
William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function.
Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars.
In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world
I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit.
No it do not Phil you check any History book printed before say 1980 and you will not see the word National Debt before 1914, It was a Government Debt or a Crown debt or a business debt before 1914, the applying the word National for debts before 1914 is wrong, National debt imply,s for every person of working age to pay tax, adult males and females and young workers and this only started in 1914, before then only those who could vote paid taxes.
1832 saw a major change to with the increasing the numbers who could vote and pay taxes rise 38% to 720,784 out of a population of 10,000,000 of voting age.
1867 see another major change it allowed 2,500,000 men to vote and pay taxes "only in the boroughs"
1884 see another major change 50% of adult men over the age of 21 to vote and pay taxes
1914 see the introduction of taxes to all over the age (male and female) of 15, and the National Debt was created, (this was the year when every worker paid taxes which paid for the debt of business, Government and Crown it was all rolled into one to become the national debt), and this was down to the big finance banker talking government into making changes into there favour, this same system was all ready in operation in the USA.
the rest should be basic knowledge to all, like Russian women allowed to vote and be in government in 1917, Britain followed suit a year later but women had to be over the age of 25, then lowed in 1928 to the age of 21 in line with men, and it stayed basically the same till 1970 when voting was lowered to 18, but to be an MP the age remain the same at 21.
Up to this point voting and taxes was inline with each other
When in doubt, try to create a smokescreen in the hope that people will become distracted.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Graeme Harrison[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]befriendly[/bold] wrote: So to post again so soon, but after reading all the above I have to ask and especially Southy just how you'd all go about repaying the trillions of debts we owe other countries and the banks as run up by prudence Brown. No replies means you have no idea and would just go on spending money the country hasn't got. You need only look across the channel to see that spending your way out of debt doesn't work and only drives your best money making people out when you introduce big tax rises.[/p][/quote]Go back 100 years ago this was a time when we had no national debt, the debt was created by the bankers they talk the government into letting the private sector print and mint money, the state no longer as control over this, the Bank of England is a PLC, give the state control over the printing and minting of money, put back the finance restrictions that Thatcher removed for her own benefit, renationalise Water, coal, electric, oil and gas. Remember this debt we got now was created by the Torys and there rich capitalist friends, It down to Brown that we finally got rid of the last war loan from the USA, and also Brown did not run up Trillions of debt to other country,s, This country has the money but its all going in one direction to those who do not need it and all they do is hoard money in tax free banking and this where the biggest lost is in British finances over 180 billion is lost in tax revenue each year and this as been going on since the 80's[/p][/quote]In 1914, national debt was about 25% of GDP, rising to about 135% in 1919. Source: Royal Economic Society[/p][/quote]Yes and that was the year it started and the coming war was use as an excuse[/p][/quote]Southy you do continue to make yourself look foolish The Govt's National Debt actually goes way back to the 1690's (and in all probability before that) William 11 was forced to sell Govt Debt to City Traders to ensure the country could function. Currently Govt Debt is approx. 70% of GDP whereas in times of war it was much higher reaching a record 200% of GDP during the Napoleonic wars. In comparison to other countries the UK national debt ranks 18th in the world I know you get rather confused at times but don't be like David Cameron and confuse National Debt with Budget Deficit.[/p][/quote]No it do not Phil you check any History book printed before say 1980 and you will not see the word National Debt before 1914, It was a Government Debt or a Crown debt or a business debt before 1914, the applying the word National for debts before 1914 is wrong, National debt imply,s for every person of working age to pay tax, adult males and females and young workers and this only started in 1914, before then only those who could vote paid taxes. 1832 saw a major change to with the increasing the numbers who could vote and pay taxes rise 38% to 720,784 out of a population of 10,000,000 of voting age. 1867 see another major change it allowed 2,500,000 men to vote and pay taxes "only in the boroughs" 1884 see another major change 50% of adult men over the age of 21 to vote and pay taxes 1914 see the introduction of taxes to all over the age (male and female) of 15, and the National Debt was created, (this was the year when every worker paid taxes which paid for the debt of business, Government and Crown it was all rolled into one to become the national debt), and this was down to the big finance banker talking government into making changes into there favour, this same system was all ready in operation in the USA. the rest should be basic knowledge to all, like Russian women allowed to vote and be in government in 1917, Britain followed suit a year later but women had to be over the age of 25, then lowed in 1928 to the age of 21 in line with men, and it stayed basically the same till 1970 when voting was lowered to 18, but to be an MP the age remain the same at 21. Up to this point voting and taxes was inline with each other[/p][/quote]When in doubt, try to create a smokescreen in the hope that people will become distracted. Torchie1

12:05pm Sun 9 Feb 14

JennieUnite says...

It really is breath-taking arrogance even for Royston Smith to criticise the Council for cuts; it is HIS Tory Government that has inflicted the cuts, and that has inflicted them in the most unfair way, with the poorest councils losing up to 30% of their budgets whilst in the leafy suburbs, rich Tory councils have had no cuts at all. We also need to debunk the myth that Keith Morrell and Don Thomas are working class heroes; the position that they, TUSC and the Socialist Party would have the council take, which is in effect to set an illegal budget would - as they well know - result in the Council officers taking over the budget and inflicting far worse cuts. But hey, let's all shout from the sidelines and hand the council over to the Tories, smug in the knowledge that we've got great principles, then we'll see just how much deeper they can cut services
It really is breath-taking arrogance even for Royston Smith to criticise the Council for cuts; it is HIS Tory Government that has inflicted the cuts, and that has inflicted them in the most unfair way, with the poorest councils losing up to 30% of their budgets whilst in the leafy suburbs, rich Tory councils have had no cuts at all. We also need to debunk the myth that Keith Morrell and Don Thomas are working class heroes; the position that they, TUSC and the Socialist Party would have the council take, which is in effect to set an illegal budget would - as they well know - result in the Council officers taking over the budget and inflicting far worse cuts. But hey, let's all shout from the sidelines and hand the council over to the Tories, smug in the knowledge that we've got great principles, then we'll see just how much deeper they can cut services JennieUnite

8:39pm Sun 9 Feb 14

the_elf says...

While the history lesson above has some interest, I'd rather the debate was about the cuts the city is currently facing. What are the 'core' services that a city council should be offering? Where should the cuts be made? Who should be protected and which areas should be closed down. Surely this is more important than semantics from the age of enlightenment...
While the history lesson above has some interest, I'd rather the debate was about the cuts the city is currently facing. What are the 'core' services that a city council should be offering? Where should the cuts be made? Who should be protected and which areas should be closed down. Surely this is more important than semantics from the age of enlightenment... the_elf

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