A new poll in Eastleigh has put UKIP ahead of its rival parties for the first time anywhere in the country

UKIP leader Nigel Farage with candidate Diane James at the 2013 Eastleigh by-election

UKIP leader Nigel Farage with candidate Diane James at the 2013 Eastleigh by-election

First published in News
Last updated
Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

COULD a Hampshire town give UKIP its first seat in the House of Commons?

That is what a new poll in Eastleigh is suggesting after it put the party ahead of its political rivals – for the first time anywhere in the country.

The party led by Nigel Farage has now labelled the town as its top priority target seat.

UKIP came a surprising second behind the Liberal Democrats at last year’s by-election, with the seat taken by Mike Thornton following a night of tension and drama.

But senior UKIP figures say they believe that they could win it at next year’s General Election.

A poll by Survation, funded by UKIP donor Alan Bown, asked constituents how they voted at the Eastleigh by-election last year and how they intended to vote next time round.

The survey claims that 32 per cent of people were supporting UKIP, which put the party four points ahead of the Conservatives on 28 per cent and five points ahead of the Liberal Democrats.

The 506 people asked were surveyed without using candidate names as some parties are yet to declare theirs – including Labour and the Conservatives.

Lib Dem Mr Thornton has already announced his intention to fight to retain his parliamentary seat at next year’s General Election after winning the backing of his party.

He won his seat in February last year following the dramatic resignation of former MP Chris Huhne, who was jailed last March after he admitted passing speeding points to his ex-wife Vicky Pryce.

Mr Thornton secured 13,342 votes – 32 per cent of the vote and a majority of 1,771 over the UKIP candidate Diane James, with Conservative candidate Maria Hutchings third on 25.3 per cent.

Daily Echo: New MP Mike Thornton arrives in Westminster

Eastleigh MP Mike Thornton with party leader Nick Clegg

But will Mr Farage himself throw his hat into the Eastleigh MP contest?

Not according to local party leaders.

County councillor Ray Finch, leader of UKIP in Hampshire, said as far as he understood Ms James was still the candidate and that Mr Farage would stand in Kent.

Daily Echo: Councillor Ray Finch

Hampshire UKIP leader Cllr Ray Finch

He said the poll showed how much good work the party branch was doing and said they offered the only opposition to the Tory/Lib Dem coalition.

UKIP party director Lisa Duffy said she could not rule Mr Farage out of Eastleigh, but said her understanding was no decision would be made on where Mr Farage would stand until summer.

Mr Thornton said that a vote for UKIP was a “negative vote”, but said people tend to protest vote between General Elections – but when it came to it they would not.

He said the election was a year away and he was quite confident that he could retain the seat.

Comments (28)

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10:49am Mon 21 Apr 14

southy says...

I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.
I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party. southy
  • Score: 17

12:38pm Mon 21 Apr 14

userds5050 says...

We're going to get a lot of this between now and the General election.
Folk telling us Ukip can get x amount of MPs, can replace the Lib dems as the third party and will form a coalition ect... when it's a load of nonsense.
They did well in the by-election but the whole party was practically camped out in the town for a month. They will not be able to do this during a general election. The Tory candidate was also a total idiot who refused to take part in the hustling and said the local schools weren't good enough for her son.
Is interesting the poll was funded by a Ukip member. I wonder how the question was worded and who was targeted ect...
We're going to get a lot of this between now and the General election. Folk telling us Ukip can get x amount of MPs, can replace the Lib dems as the third party and will form a coalition ect... when it's a load of nonsense. They did well in the by-election but the whole party was practically camped out in the town for a month. They will not be able to do this during a general election. The Tory candidate was also a total idiot who refused to take part in the hustling and said the local schools weren't good enough for her son. Is interesting the poll was funded by a Ukip member. I wonder how the question was worded and who was targeted ect... userds5050
  • Score: -4

1:01pm Mon 21 Apr 14

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.
.. yea, but you also told us the coalition would collapse and there would be a general election before the end of 2012.
Oh, and Jeremy Molton was just about to depose Royston-Smith a year ago.
Neither happened, did they?
Here's my prediction: TUSC will continue to be also-runs in the local Southampton elections next month. And the Green's will beat you in every ward where you both stand.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.[/p][/quote].. yea, but you also told us the coalition would collapse and there would be a general election before the end of 2012. Oh, and Jeremy Molton was just about to depose Royston-Smith a year ago. Neither happened, did they? Here's my prediction: TUSC will continue to be also-runs in the local Southampton elections next month. And the Green's will beat you in every ward where you both stand. freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:29pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Inform Al says...

southy wrote:
I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.
What a pl0nker. UKIP will never be as remote from the people as the stupid Tories, and TUSC are.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.[/p][/quote]What a pl0nker. UKIP will never be as remote from the people as the stupid Tories, and TUSC are. Inform Al
  • Score: 0

2:16pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Pobinr says...

The British people voted in 1975 for what was sold to them in distorted & biased form with two leaflets in favour & one against, as a 'Common Market'.

They did not vote for a federal Europe where we become a mere borderless state in the unelected EU commissioner's empire getting flooded with immigrants driving wages down making slumlords & employers who pay low wages richer whilst adding to the housing shortage, road congestion, NHS queues etc

In a television broadcast to mark Britain’s entry in January 1973, Prime Minister Edward Heath said:
“There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified”.

This was treachery & betrayal that continues to this day.

Who benefits from cheap imported labour?
Slumlords & low wage payers.
So how can people call UKIP 'right wing' when they are opposed to this ?

EU = Capitalist's wet dream brought to you courtesy of the left.

More & more centralised control & a desire to impose political union on the people of Europe without their consent.

How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe;

The unelected crooks & recycled Communists running the EU
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=YWSYMpuCF
aQ

Remote control by the EU
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=TtQt2IjeL
Vc

EU new Soviet Union ?
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=92Vjc_PeY
tc

The EU is the New Communism. It is Power without Limits
https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=3RjUJy7k
DOM

We're now run by Big Banks,Big Business &Big Bureaucrats
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=750uBYcab
KI

Nigel Farage of UKIP Confronts the EU Commissioners
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=bJHETdxwv
8Y

If you value your country, freedom & democracy then
VOTE UKIP
The British people voted in 1975 for what was sold to them in distorted & biased form with two leaflets in favour & one against, as a 'Common Market'. They did not vote for a federal Europe where we become a mere borderless state in the unelected EU commissioner's empire getting flooded with immigrants driving wages down making slumlords & employers who pay low wages richer whilst adding to the housing shortage, road congestion, NHS queues etc In a television broadcast to mark Britain’s entry in January 1973, Prime Minister Edward Heath said: “There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified”. This was treachery & betrayal that continues to this day. Who benefits from cheap imported labour? Slumlords & low wage payers. So how can people call UKIP 'right wing' when they are opposed to this ? EU = Capitalist's wet dream brought to you courtesy of the left. More & more centralised control & a desire to impose political union on the people of Europe without their consent. How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe; The unelected crooks & recycled Communists running the EU http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=YWSYMpuCF aQ Remote control by the EU http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=TtQt2IjeL Vc EU new Soviet Union ? http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=92Vjc_PeY tc The EU is the New Communism. It is Power without Limits https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=3RjUJy7k DOM We're now run by Big Banks,Big Business &Big Bureaucrats http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=750uBYcab KI Nigel Farage of UKIP Confronts the EU Commissioners http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=bJHETdxwv 8Y If you value your country, freedom & democracy then VOTE UKIP Pobinr
  • Score: 8

2:21pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Pobinr says...

Every other name on Southampton Maternity unit cots is East European.
Locals can't get their kids into their nearest school.
Even if they can it's full of kids that can't speak English properly.
The General hospital has had to ask for more funding for the hepatobiliary liver service due to Vodka usage by our friends from the East.
The social housing list is now 8 years long.
The main road I live on has got busier & noisier.
I was speaking to Pole the other day at 11am.
I asked him how come you're not at work?
He replied he 'Couldn't get any more chef work here'
I said will you be going back to Poland then?
He replied 'No I steel beetar off here' !
On the dole !
I bought a 2 flat that had had 6 Lithuanians living in.
The new working class living like this with almost no overheads so undercutting wages for locals & driving down living standards for people with mortgages to pay & making slumlords & min wage employers richer.
EU = Capitalist's wet dream brought to you courtesy of the left.
Now we see the latest news is that Cameron's got Jesus.
He's as delusional as B.Liar!
VOTE UKIP
Every other name on Southampton Maternity unit cots is East European. Locals can't get their kids into their nearest school. Even if they can it's full of kids that can't speak English properly. The General hospital has had to ask for more funding for the hepatobiliary liver service due to Vodka usage by our friends from the East. The social housing list is now 8 years long. The main road I live on has got busier & noisier. I was speaking to Pole the other day at 11am. I asked him how come you're not at work? He replied he 'Couldn't get any more chef work here' I said will you be going back to Poland then? He replied 'No I steel beetar off here' ! On the dole ! I bought a 2 flat that had had 6 Lithuanians living in. The new working class living like this with almost no overheads so undercutting wages for locals & driving down living standards for people with mortgages to pay & making slumlords & min wage employers richer. EU = Capitalist's wet dream brought to you courtesy of the left. Now we see the latest news is that Cameron's got Jesus. He's as delusional as B.Liar! VOTE UKIP Pobinr
  • Score: 15

2:48pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 4

3:08pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Torchie1 says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e
xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following? Torchie1
  • Score: -1

3:11pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.
Peter I think you are right.

If you remember during Eastleigh by election, having canvassed for NuLabour candidate, I'd said that there was a massive swing towards UKIP, but our comrades on the left and colleagues within NuLabour didn't agree. Only to be proven wrong when UKIP candidate came close second in the results.

I also predicted the same at the TUSC meeting held in community centre in Weston Estate (which you did not attend) but was ridiculed by Socialist Party people ( who in fairness that time for a change ran a very good election campaign) Because what I was saying based on open minded observations was contradicting centrally produced slogans!!!

But again my analysis turned out to be correct because in Woolston UKIP won plenty of votes.

Hope others in TUSC have also tuned into public mood, as you have. And do something positive while campaigning as was done in Woolston rather than usual style copied from the manual 'Dummies Guide How Not to Win'
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.[/p][/quote]Peter I think you are right. If you remember during Eastleigh by election, having canvassed for NuLabour candidate, I'd said that there was a massive swing towards UKIP, but our comrades on the left and colleagues within NuLabour didn't agree. Only to be proven wrong when UKIP candidate came close second in the results. I also predicted the same at the TUSC meeting held in community centre in Weston Estate (which you did not attend) but was ridiculed by Socialist Party people ( who in fairness that time for a change ran a very good election campaign) Because what I was saying based on open minded observations was contradicting centrally produced slogans!!! But again my analysis turned out to be correct because in Woolston UKIP won plenty of votes. Hope others in TUSC have also tuned into public mood, as you have. And do something positive while campaigning as was done in Woolston rather than usual style copied from the manual 'Dummies Guide How Not to Win' Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -1

3:50pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.
.. yea, but you also told us the coalition would collapse and there would be a general election before the end of 2012.
Oh, and Jeremy Molton was just about to depose Royston-Smith a year ago.
Neither happened, did they?
Here's my prediction: TUSC will continue to be also-runs in the local Southampton elections next month. And the Green's will beat you in every ward where you both stand.
Freefinker, I never gamble otherwise would have made a bet that Greens will not to better than TUSC in 'EVERY' ward.

Since they have declared former Labour councillor Angela Mowle as their Parliamentery candidate, against Dr. Alan Whitehead, whose knowledge and comittment to environmental issues is far better than her, and abilities much greater than her, plus his record and experience, I will have to really try very hard to force myself to vote for Greens even in European elections.

Only reason I may vote Greens will be because I have great respect for Caroline Lucas.

Having been part of Labour Group on Southampton Council along with Angela Mowel when Alan Whitehead was the Leader, I have formed very dim opinion of the lady with huge ego poor ability and lack of respect for democratic decisions.

For example she was made the chair of race or equality Committee, and when she could not live up to expectations (admittedly bar was too high set by true socialst Brian Roost the previous Chair) the Group decided to replace her with Paul Jenks. When decision was announced in the Council, rather than accepting Angela stormed out in her usual middle class huff.

As Labour's spokesperson on Hampshire Public Protection Committee I was frequently contacted by Alan Whitehead and I often used to ask for his knowledge based advice. I can't recall Angela even contacting me or ever having tried to push environmental issues even within Southampton's Labour Group.

I can't understand how the Greens have lost person like John Sopteswoode with enormous abilities to NuLabour and could not find some one else with similar experience and capabilities.

Perhaps you know something that I don't
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: I have this feeling that down the East side of Southampton UKIP might do well in this year Local Elections, UKIP are more likely be the future Tory party.[/p][/quote].. yea, but you also told us the coalition would collapse and there would be a general election before the end of 2012. Oh, and Jeremy Molton was just about to depose Royston-Smith a year ago. Neither happened, did they? Here's my prediction: TUSC will continue to be also-runs in the local Southampton elections next month. And the Green's will beat you in every ward where you both stand.[/p][/quote]Freefinker, I never gamble otherwise would have made a bet that Greens will not to better than TUSC in 'EVERY' ward. Since they have declared former Labour councillor Angela Mowle as their Parliamentery candidate, against Dr. Alan Whitehead, whose knowledge and comittment to environmental issues is far better than her, and abilities much greater than her, plus his record and experience, I will have to really try very hard to force myself to vote for Greens even in European elections. Only reason I may vote Greens will be because I have great respect for Caroline Lucas. Having been part of Labour Group on Southampton Council along with Angela Mowel when Alan Whitehead was the Leader, I have formed very dim opinion of the lady with huge ego poor ability and lack of respect for democratic decisions. For example she was made the chair of race or equality Committee, and when she could not live up to expectations (admittedly bar was too high set by true socialst Brian Roost the previous Chair) the Group decided to replace her with Paul Jenks. When decision was announced in the Council, rather than accepting Angela stormed out in her usual middle class huff. As Labour's spokesperson on Hampshire Public Protection Committee I was frequently contacted by Alan Whitehead and I often used to ask for his knowledge based advice. I can't recall Angela even contacting me or ever having tried to push environmental issues even within Southampton's Labour Group. I can't understand how the Greens have lost person like John Sopteswoode with enormous abilities to NuLabour and could not find some one else with similar experience and capabilities. Perhaps you know something that I don't Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e

xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC.

Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip.

About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!!
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?[/p][/quote]My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC. Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip. About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!! Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -2

4:41pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Torchie1 says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e


xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC.

Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip.

About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!!
Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?[/p][/quote]My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC. Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip. About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!![/p][/quote]Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power. Torchie1
  • Score: 1

4:44pm Mon 21 Apr 14

issacchunt says...

Go on do it, vote UKIP and show the main parties we're not going to accept the self centred macho politics.

tories, only interested in the rich. (Maria miller?)

labour, opened the floodgates and forgot to shut them.

lib dems, what a joke. Will sink without a trace.

just watch prime minister s question time and see what goes on, it'll be more of the same so bloody the noses now in the hope they get back on track in a years time.
Go on do it, vote UKIP and show the main parties we're not going to accept the self centred macho politics. tories, only interested in the rich. (Maria miller?) labour, opened the floodgates and forgot to shut them. lib dems, what a joke. Will sink without a trace. just watch prime minister s question time and see what goes on, it'll be more of the same so bloody the noses now in the hope they get back on track in a years time. issacchunt
  • Score: 2

5:02pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Inform Al says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
Much of your post makes sense, but you should be made aware that in Southampton at least no shady or dubious characters are standing in the local elections, just decent people with knowledge of what is needed for the community. It is for this reason that not all wards are being contested, only those where we could get candidates with the necessary qualifications, unlike the other parties. I am standing in Bassett and have a long history of voluntary work in the social housing sector.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]Much of your post makes sense, but you should be made aware that in Southampton at least no shady or dubious characters are standing in the local elections, just decent people with knowledge of what is needed for the community. It is for this reason that not all wards are being contested, only those where we could get candidates with the necessary qualifications, unlike the other parties. I am standing in Bassett and have a long history of voluntary work in the social housing sector. Inform Al
  • Score: -2

5:02pm Mon 21 Apr 14

userds5050 says...

A third of the people polled in this survey were undecided or refused to say who they'd vote for and this wasn't factored into the 32 pre cent figure. Also only 1% of the electorate was polled so it's hardly extensive. Ukip doing better than folk expected is good anyway because it will split the Tory vote allowing the Lib dems to keep their existing seats and possible allow Labour to sneak the general election.
A third of the people polled in this survey were undecided or refused to say who they'd vote for and this wasn't factored into the 32 pre cent figure. Also only 1% of the electorate was polled so it's hardly extensive. Ukip doing better than folk expected is good anyway because it will split the Tory vote allowing the Lib dems to keep their existing seats and possible allow Labour to sneak the general election. userds5050
  • Score: 3

6:07pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

userds5050 wrote:
A third of the people polled in this survey were undecided or refused to say who they'd vote for and this wasn't factored into the 32 pre cent figure. Also only 1% of the electorate was polled so it's hardly extensive. Ukip doing better than folk expected is good anyway because it will split the Tory vote allowing the Lib dems to keep their existing seats and possible allow Labour to sneak the general election.
That's a bit cruel isn't it? "Labour voters have the attention span of a gnat and have already forgotten Brown's pension raid, uncontrolled immigration, fraudulent dossiers to get us to war, uncontrolled borrowing,, the worst ever criminal legislation, paedophiles- just- good -ole- boys- Harman etc,etc,"?
Oh but then you're probably right.....Cyril Smith and Lord Fat Boy Rennard Who?
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: A third of the people polled in this survey were undecided or refused to say who they'd vote for and this wasn't factored into the 32 pre cent figure. Also only 1% of the electorate was polled so it's hardly extensive. Ukip doing better than folk expected is good anyway because it will split the Tory vote allowing the Lib dems to keep their existing seats and possible allow Labour to sneak the general election.[/p][/quote]That's a bit cruel isn't it? "Labour voters have the attention span of a gnat and have already forgotten Brown's pension raid, uncontrolled immigration, fraudulent dossiers to get us to war, uncontrolled borrowing,, the worst ever criminal legislation, paedophiles- just- good -ole- boys- Harman etc,etc,"? Oh but then you're probably right.....Cyril Smith and Lord Fat Boy Rennard Who? Dai Rear
  • Score: -3

9:12pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Pobinr says...

Here's two examples of the hidden costs of EU membership.
I was speaking to the director of a small cancer research establishment who are succeeding in treating some cancers using anti bodies. Especially cancers that effect children.
He said there is so much EU paperwork needed now for clinical trials it's become almost impossible for his small establishment. Only large drug companias can afford the time & effort. So he went to see the EU commisioners about 10 years ago with Chris Huhne. The Commisioners said well we're sorry but this legislation was drafted 10 years ago there's nothing we can do. Then pressumably went off to some 5 star restaurant for lunch.

Hidden costs of EU legal legislation as posted on telegraph by a Barrister;
'On a related note: I'm a barrister practising in commercial law and one would perhaps have expected that my legal research primarily involved the common law, the collection of centuries' worth of accumulated wisdom. Unfortunately, more and more of my job is taken up researching the latest EU directives, which are invariably poorly drafted and have little or no guidance. In numerous areas we have replaced a clear and carefully developed rule, with an unclear and bizarre rule that is designed to suit France or Germany. When you dig even deeper you find out that the rule is often applied differently in each country and each case (since most European countries do not have a system of precedent).
In other words, the EU is not content with ignoring the rule of law itself, it is actively seeking to undermine the rule of law that we have established ourselves, at great cost to British companies who have to try and comply. This is one of the many 'unseen' costs of EU membership.'
http://blogs.telegra
ph.co.uk/news/daniel
hannan/100248388/the
-single-most-objecti
onable-thing-about-t
he-eu-in-a-crowded-f
ield/#comment-114450
5044
Here's two examples of the hidden costs of EU membership. I was speaking to the director of a small cancer research establishment who are succeeding in treating some cancers using anti bodies. Especially cancers that effect children. He said there is so much EU paperwork needed now for clinical trials it's become almost impossible for his small establishment. Only large drug companias can afford the time & effort. So he went to see the EU commisioners about 10 years ago with Chris Huhne. The Commisioners said well we're sorry but this legislation was drafted 10 years ago there's nothing we can do. Then pressumably went off to some 5 star restaurant for lunch. Hidden costs of EU legal legislation as posted on telegraph by a Barrister; 'On a related note: I'm a barrister practising in commercial law and one would perhaps have expected that my legal research primarily involved the common law, the collection of centuries' worth of accumulated wisdom. Unfortunately, more and more of my job is taken up researching the latest EU directives, which are invariably poorly drafted and have little or no guidance. In numerous areas we have replaced a clear and carefully developed rule, with an unclear and bizarre rule that is designed to suit France or Germany. When you dig even deeper you find out that the rule is often applied differently in each country and each case (since most European countries do not have a system of precedent). In other words, the EU is not content with ignoring the rule of law itself, it is actively seeking to undermine the rule of law that we have established ourselves, at great cost to British companies who have to try and comply. This is one of the many 'unseen' costs of EU membership.' http://blogs.telegra ph.co.uk/news/daniel hannan/100248388/the -single-most-objecti onable-thing-about-t he-eu-in-a-crowded-f ield/#comment-114450 5044 Pobinr
  • Score: 0

10:54pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Inform Al wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
Much of your post makes sense, but you should be made aware that in Southampton at least no shady or dubious characters are standing in the local elections, just decent people with knowledge of what is needed for the community. It is for this reason that not all wards are being contested, only those where we could get candidates with the necessary qualifications, unlike the other parties. I am standing in Bassett and have a long history of voluntary work in the social housing sector.
Sir, even if what you are claiming is claimed by you with best intentions, I have been around for long time to remain suspicious.

You may remember one of the well known liar, who was UKIP candidate in Bargate, claiming to be former MP from Australia. He also used to tell people fibs that he used to be a councillor in Southampton and was former Mayor. Name Len Hickman may help in refreshing your memory.

And what about one of your prominent member (was he UKIP candidate once?) in Lordshill. Can you remember something in the Echo about him regarding benefits?

At national level even when he was UKIP's MEP Kilroy Silk (hope I got the name right) had said that there are extremists and racists within the higher ranks of the UKIP.

Surely you can't airbrush the fact that even Nigel Farage had no choice but to openly disassociate from certain prominent and senior member of UKIP because of what he'd been saying about Africa,

Can you remember the senior chap of UKIP who'd hit journalist of Channel 4 on the head?

Watching the news on TV this evening, even Tories are pointing fingers at UKIP for its latest advertising campaign, which in the views of Conservatives could contribute towards creating racial hate towards some sections of our society.

UKIP had the advantage of zooming on the emotive issues like EU, because Labour was stupid enough to ditch its opposition, and was lucky enough to keep on escaping proper scrutiny by the media. But sooner or later that bubble will burst.

So there is real danger that UKIP may end up damaging the campaign to withdraw from the EU.
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]Much of your post makes sense, but you should be made aware that in Southampton at least no shady or dubious characters are standing in the local elections, just decent people with knowledge of what is needed for the community. It is for this reason that not all wards are being contested, only those where we could get candidates with the necessary qualifications, unlike the other parties. I am standing in Bassett and have a long history of voluntary work in the social housing sector.[/p][/quote]Sir, even if what you are claiming is claimed by you with best intentions, I have been around for long time to remain suspicious. You may remember one of the well known liar, who was UKIP candidate in Bargate, claiming to be former MP from Australia. He also used to tell people fibs that he used to be a councillor in Southampton and was former Mayor. Name Len Hickman may help in refreshing your memory. And what about one of your prominent member (was he UKIP candidate once?) in Lordshill. Can you remember something in the Echo about him regarding benefits? At national level even when he was UKIP's MEP Kilroy Silk (hope I got the name right) had said that there are extremists and racists within the higher ranks of the UKIP. Surely you can't airbrush the fact that even Nigel Farage had no choice but to openly disassociate from certain prominent and senior member of UKIP because of what he'd been saying about Africa, Can you remember the senior chap of UKIP who'd hit journalist of Channel 4 on the head? Watching the news on TV this evening, even Tories are pointing fingers at UKIP for its latest advertising campaign, which in the views of Conservatives could contribute towards creating racial hate towards some sections of our society. UKIP had the advantage of zooming on the emotive issues like EU, because Labour was stupid enough to ditch its opposition, and was lucky enough to keep on escaping proper scrutiny by the media. But sooner or later that bubble will burst. So there is real danger that UKIP may end up damaging the campaign to withdraw from the EU. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -3

11:20pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e



xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC.

Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip.

About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!!
Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.
No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking.

It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners.

Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position.

In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?[/p][/quote]My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC. Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip. About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!![/p][/quote]Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.[/p][/quote]No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking. It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners. Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position. In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: -1

11:42pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Torchie1 says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e




xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC.

Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip.

About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!!
Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.
No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking.

It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners.

Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position.

In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad.
Of course Tusc is young, it's the latest in a long line of re-brands that have been trying to offer the same old- same old brand of left wing politics that began with the Workers International League and rolled through the Revolutinary Communist Party, Revolutionary Socialist League, blah,blah,blah, Militant Tendency, Socialist Party and finally emerging as Tusc. The common denominator is that none of them appealed to the public and all collapsed through internal strife. It's a young party that won't grow old before it's strangled by an internal splinter group. Long live the revolution even though no-one will ever vote for it.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?[/p][/quote]My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC. Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip. About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!![/p][/quote]Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.[/p][/quote]No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking. It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners. Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position. In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad.[/p][/quote]Of course Tusc is young, it's the latest in a long line of re-brands that have been trying to offer the same old- same old brand of left wing politics that began with the Workers International League and rolled through the Revolutinary Communist Party, Revolutionary Socialist League, blah,blah,blah, Militant Tendency, Socialist Party and finally emerging as Tusc. The common denominator is that none of them appealed to the public and all collapsed through internal strife. It's a young party that won't grow old before it's strangled by an internal splinter group. Long live the revolution even though no-one will ever vote for it. Torchie1
  • Score: -1

8:31am Tue 22 Apr 14

tootle says...

People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN.
People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN. tootle
  • Score: -1

9:14am Tue 22 Apr 14

userds5050 says...

tootle wrote:
People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN.
What are you on about? Ukip is full of dissatisfied ex Tories. Their party treasurer was the biggest donor to the Conservatives party before he got expelled. Let's not pretend they're any different to the status quo.
[quote][p][bold]tootle[/bold] wrote: People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? Ukip is full of dissatisfied ex Tories. Their party treasurer was the biggest donor to the Conservatives party before he got expelled. Let's not pretend they're any different to the status quo. userds5050
  • Score: 2

11:05am Tue 22 Apr 14

Paramjit Bahia says...

Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes.

EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released).

Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation.

That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State.

UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP.

With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market.

But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP
for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists.

At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU.

Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake....

Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past.

Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.
"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition?
It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e





xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?
My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC.

Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip.

About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!!
Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.
No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking.

It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners.

Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position.

In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad.
Of course Tusc is young, it's the latest in a long line of re-brands that have been trying to offer the same old- same old brand of left wing politics that began with the Workers International League and rolled through the Revolutinary Communist Party, Revolutionary Socialist League, blah,blah,blah, Militant Tendency, Socialist Party and finally emerging as Tusc. The common denominator is that none of them appealed to the public and all collapsed through internal strife. It's a young party that won't grow old before it's strangled by an internal splinter group. Long live the revolution even though no-one will ever vote for it.
I do not dispute your observation internal disputes have historically damaged small parties, that is why I have always argued for the unity of the left and environmentalists, so am not member of any. Not even member of TUSC, which I certainly support.

Yes small parties of the left have never established a 'brand name' because they keep on finding new titles. They should learn from others like NuLabour, which knows it, that is why although in reality they are virtually the same as Tories and lousy LibDem, for elections they do not field candidates as New Labour but as The Labour Party candidate.

TUSC may be dominated by members of the Socialist Party, but it has others in it as well, who like me support it not because it is perfect but because it is the only broad based campaigning organisation for the victims of so called austerity measures, which in fact have increased the gap between haves and have not and against cuts, which are not only making the lives of many difficult today, but have driven people even in leafy middle class parts of Surrey to depend of food banks. And these avoidable cuts will have knock on effects for long time.... Cuts in education will leave the nation with plenty of morons or illinformed people, who could become breeding ground for the extremists.

I accept your right to hold right wing views and can understand your dislike of socialism. But please do not expect socialists to agree with you. Because for socialists humanity is more important, so they want to use the resources of the nation for the welfare of all the people rather than wasting on bombing other nation and killing innocent people or on creating unrest in other countries by getting in bed with set ups like alqeda or the neo nazis.

Just because like Lib-Dem, NuLabour, Tories and UKIP small organisation TUSC has not got multi million pounds budget for advertising and boozing up with Journos for favourable coverage in the media, does not mean the small guys are wrong.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: It is sheer arrogance of main three (that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party) to suggest that UKIP only picks protest votes. EU is a serious issue, many who care about the sovereignty of UK have always been concerned about the secret agenda of creating United States of Europe through the back door of trading partnership. (Suspecions which were confirmed when Ted Heath's having directed the civil service not to mention intention of creating political union got released). Having started by opposing the EU, The Labour Party led by opportunist right wingers like Kinnock started disappointment in public minds when the Party changed its policy to stay in the EU, for outdoing Thatcher's love affair with the organisation. That U turn along with NuLabour's refusal to honour its manifesto comittment of holding referendum after Lisbon, closed all reasonable and reliable options for those who are opposed to creation of European Super State. UKIP has filled that gap. So in my opinion whole of it is not a protest vote but genuine shift towards UKIP. With the launch of Socialist Labour Party in 1996 The 'Left' had the best opportunity to grab the flag of anti EU concerns once again. It was based on original Labour values including withdrawal from the EU and to trade with whole world; rather than remaining part of a small trading block going for much larger market. But unfortunately too many so called Marxist and Trotskyists joined the SLP for their own purposes, and destroyed the possibility of developing the Party by turning it into sectarian civil war between Stalinsts and Trotskyists. At one time Arthur Scargill even tried to float the idea of common united campaign (by all those from left right and centre who are opposed to the EU) for withdrawal from the EU. Although now I think that to be a good idea, but at the time I along with many others we successfully opposed it, because that would have meant working with the Tories. May be we made a mistake.... Failure of starting a united campaign by all on the single issue of withdrawing from the EU has frustrated very high percentage of British people. Most of them have now turned to UKIP not merely for registering protest but with some expectations, which may or may not be misplaced, because on many other issues the policies of UKIP are not only less than even half baked but to put it politely the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision. Although they have unlimited supply of 'know it all Charlies' and people with shady past. Everything remaining the same, (any unexpected event can suddenly change the situation in politics) UKIP will certainly pick lots and lots of votes.[/p][/quote]"that is if lousy slippery and unprincipled Lib-Dem is still considered to be a main Party"....... would this still be your opinion if they had succumbed to Gordon Browns overtures and there was a Lib-Lab coalition? It's interesting that people are turning to UKIP and their 'half baked ' policies instead of Tusc and their half baked ideas. " the party also suffers from shortage of candidates with abilities required for governance, lack experience and long term economic and political vision"............e xactly how most people seem to see Tusc, apart from the 62 in Eastleigh that voted for them at the last By-Election allowing Tusc to give the Wessex Regionalists a good hiding. Perhaps it's time to look beyond the 'no cuts' mantra which everyone knows is a non starter and start trying to see how UKIP have achieved their current following?[/p][/quote]My poor opinion of Lib Dem will be the same even if they join TUSC. Fact: In 1993 when my fake socialist and opportunistic colleagues (including my personal friend and very capable man Alan Lloyd) jumped in bed with Lib-Dem at Hampshire County Council, I refused to take part in their coalition. And they withdrew the whip. About other issues you have raised: NO comment, I can't afford keep on losing mates by analysing the facts with open mind and telling the truth!!![/p][/quote]Can I interpret the last statement as you've realised that SS Tusc is sinking but you know that you would be wasting your time trying to help the scales fall from the eyes of others who will not see? Extreme groups from left or right will never attract votes in large enough numbers to make any difference as the centre ground is continually returned to power.[/p][/quote]No I do not believe that TUSC is sinking. It is young set up, lacks experince campaigners. If they get their campaigning methods sorted, and campaign in Woolston byelection, which was good old Labour style but with very small budget, suggests that they are fast learners. Unprecedented cuts in services are major concern for most of the people, and by keep on shifting towards the right NuLabour has created an empty space, which many people want to be filled real party comitted to real Labour values, which can also be the middle ground position. In environment dominated by the power of monetary resources and pro establishment media, progress for organisations can be difficult but not impossible. Provided they do not start deviating from core issues that matter to the ordinary people. Yes the left has made a mistake by putting opposition to EU on the back burner, but problems created by so called austerity may provide TUSC a launching pad.[/p][/quote]Of course Tusc is young, it's the latest in a long line of re-brands that have been trying to offer the same old- same old brand of left wing politics that began with the Workers International League and rolled through the Revolutinary Communist Party, Revolutionary Socialist League, blah,blah,blah, Militant Tendency, Socialist Party and finally emerging as Tusc. The common denominator is that none of them appealed to the public and all collapsed through internal strife. It's a young party that won't grow old before it's strangled by an internal splinter group. Long live the revolution even though no-one will ever vote for it.[/p][/quote]I do not dispute your observation internal disputes have historically damaged small parties, that is why I have always argued for the unity of the left and environmentalists, so am not member of any. Not even member of TUSC, which I certainly support. Yes small parties of the left have never established a 'brand name' because they keep on finding new titles. They should learn from others like NuLabour, which knows it, that is why although in reality they are virtually the same as Tories and lousy LibDem, for elections they do not field candidates as New Labour but as The Labour Party candidate. TUSC may be dominated by members of the Socialist Party, but it has others in it as well, who like me support it not because it is perfect but because it is the only broad based campaigning organisation for the victims of so called austerity measures, which in fact have increased the gap between haves and have not and against cuts, which are not only making the lives of many difficult today, but have driven people even in leafy middle class parts of Surrey to depend of food banks. And these avoidable cuts will have knock on effects for long time.... Cuts in education will leave the nation with plenty of morons or illinformed people, who could become breeding ground for the extremists. I accept your right to hold right wing views and can understand your dislike of socialism. But please do not expect socialists to agree with you. Because for socialists humanity is more important, so they want to use the resources of the nation for the welfare of all the people rather than wasting on bombing other nation and killing innocent people or on creating unrest in other countries by getting in bed with set ups like alqeda or the neo nazis. Just because like Lib-Dem, NuLabour, Tories and UKIP small organisation TUSC has not got multi million pounds budget for advertising and boozing up with Journos for favourable coverage in the media, does not mean the small guys are wrong. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Ben Durutti says...

This whole Farage 'man of the people'/UKIP 'radical & different' pose is laughable. Farage is an old-fashioned Little Englander far right Tory. As a wealthy former banker he wants no restraints on the financial sector & would go further than the Tories in privatising/dismantl
ing the NHS. He also supports foxhunting and as for being different, he has certainly had his nose in the expenses trough as an MEP. A joke.
This whole Farage 'man of the people'/UKIP 'radical & different' pose is laughable. Farage is an old-fashioned Little Englander far right Tory. As a wealthy former banker he wants no restraints on the financial sector & would go further than the Tories in privatising/dismantl ing the NHS. He also supports foxhunting and as for being different, he has certainly had his nose in the expenses trough as an MEP. A joke. Ben Durutti
  • Score: 3

3:12pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Inform Al says...

Ben Durutti wrote:
This whole Farage 'man of the people'/UKIP 'radical & different' pose is laughable. Farage is an old-fashioned Little Englander far right Tory. As a wealthy former banker he wants no restraints on the financial sector & would go further than the Tories in privatising/dismantl

ing the NHS. He also supports foxhunting and as for being different, he has certainly had his nose in the expenses trough as an MEP. A joke.
And what planet do you live on?
[quote][p][bold]Ben Durutti[/bold] wrote: This whole Farage 'man of the people'/UKIP 'radical & different' pose is laughable. Farage is an old-fashioned Little Englander far right Tory. As a wealthy former banker he wants no restraints on the financial sector & would go further than the Tories in privatising/dismantl ing the NHS. He also supports foxhunting and as for being different, he has certainly had his nose in the expenses trough as an MEP. A joke.[/p][/quote]And what planet do you live on? Inform Al
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Inform Al says...

userds5050 wrote:
tootle wrote:
People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN.
What are you on about? Ukip is full of dissatisfied ex Tories. Their party treasurer was the biggest donor to the Conservatives party before he got expelled. Let's not pretend they're any different to the status quo.
UKIP also has plenty of ex Labour members, like me. If you are not fed up with the dismal exploits of the main political parties that have disillusioned so many into not bothering to vote you must be one of those parties unthinking sheep.
[quote][p][bold]userds5050[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tootle[/bold] wrote: People vote for UKIP.? Not sure it's policies, not sure it's anti EU. I think it is simpler than that. People are fed up with clone politicians from clone parties repeating the mantra "vote for us, we are the best party for you". Saw a picture the other day in a paper I think - 3 party leaders all in suits, sombre and dignified and Farage in a suit with a big grin on his face looking like joe bloggs after a happy lunch in the pub. Let's face it the political classes don't listen, they don't address the issues that affect us, in fact they are simply political as a job. UKIP is a bunch of real people, some good, some competent but mostly very different, have they the abilities they need? who knows. Think it may come down to the simple choice of safe, status quo, political clone or "man next door" mavericks - I'm not calling it but it is FUN.[/p][/quote]What are you on about? Ukip is full of dissatisfied ex Tories. Their party treasurer was the biggest donor to the Conservatives party before he got expelled. Let's not pretend they're any different to the status quo.[/p][/quote]UKIP also has plenty of ex Labour members, like me. If you are not fed up with the dismal exploits of the main political parties that have disillusioned so many into not bothering to vote you must be one of those parties unthinking sheep. Inform Al
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Pobinr says...

It's a worry when you have Creepy weirdo Cable & compulsive liar Clegg who think that mass immigration of people is protecting our jobs!
That they'd even have the gall to spout such self contradictory nonsense is insulting our intelligence!

And that the more of England we concrete over & build on to house these people the richer we become.

And the more language problems we have & the more we Kowtow to people who don't respect our way of life & the more fractured our society becomes the more culturally rich we become.

The only glimmer of hope is that the DimLib share of the vote has dropped to less than 10%. On the other hand over 30% still vote for Slabour, who approve of mass immigration of cheap labour driving down wages, taking homes & jobs & making slumlords & min wage employers richer. Which is the opposite of Labour principles!
Small wonder the X-Factor, Deadenders & Zombienation street are the most popular programmes.
And to support your country all you need to is waive a flag while 11 massively over paid morons kick a ball around whilst at the same time you the fact the country you supposedly support is being given away by elected traitors to the emerging EU dictatorship!

Then when a man comes along who could save us 100's of £billions & restore our nationstate democracy otherwise know as a 'country' you get obsessive about a few thousand in expenses & watch pseudo intellectuals giggling about it on programmes like 'Have I Got Giggles For You' !
How we never finished up under the third Reich I'll never know!
Churchil I guess & Nigel Farage now carries that mantle.
https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=bJHETdxw
v8Y
It's a worry when you have Creepy weirdo Cable & compulsive liar Clegg who think that mass immigration of people is protecting our jobs! That they'd even have the gall to spout such self contradictory nonsense is insulting our intelligence! And that the more of England we concrete over & build on to house these people the richer we become. And the more language problems we have & the more we Kowtow to people who don't respect our way of life & the more fractured our society becomes the more culturally rich we become. The only glimmer of hope is that the DimLib share of the vote has dropped to less than 10%. On the other hand over 30% still vote for Slabour, who approve of mass immigration of cheap labour driving down wages, taking homes & jobs & making slumlords & min wage employers richer. Which is the opposite of Labour principles! Small wonder the X-Factor, Deadenders & Zombienation street are the most popular programmes. And to support your country all you need to is waive a flag while 11 massively over paid morons kick a ball around whilst at the same time you the fact the country you supposedly support is being given away by elected traitors to the emerging EU dictatorship! Then when a man comes along who could save us 100's of £billions & restore our nationstate democracy otherwise know as a 'country' you get obsessive about a few thousand in expenses & watch pseudo intellectuals giggling about it on programmes like 'Have I Got Giggles For You' ! How we never finished up under the third Reich I'll never know! Churchil I guess & Nigel Farage now carries that mantle. https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=bJHETdxw v8Y Pobinr
  • Score: 2

12:09pm Sun 27 Apr 14

redsnapper says...

UKIP are the a bunch of unhinged, racist prone nutjobs. The Hamiltons (brown bag experts) Godfrey Bloom (derogatry attitudes to women) Farage himslef milking the EU expense accounts for all he can take.

As for the poster campaign--what a *****ing shambles. This lot couldn;t govern a primary school let alone a country.
UKIP are the a bunch of unhinged, racist prone nutjobs. The Hamiltons (brown bag experts) Godfrey Bloom (derogatry attitudes to women) Farage himslef milking the EU expense accounts for all he can take. As for the poster campaign--what a *****ing shambles. This lot couldn;t govern a primary school let alone a country. redsnapper
  • Score: -1

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