Is there a big cat roaming the Hampshire countryside? (From Daily Echo)

there is a 8mm film off a big cat taken on bodmin moor some time back. if its the same type off cat that you find on the slopes off the andies mountains then it would have no problem surviving in this country, its use to a much bigger range off temperature than we get in this country, dont like being out in the open in day light, but like Paul Westwood said this country is to small to support a large number off big cats, and the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent.

southy wrote:
there is a 8mm film off a big cat taken on bodmin moor some time back. if its the same type off cat that you find on the slopes off the andies mountains then it would have no problem surviving in this country, its use to a much bigger range off temperature than we get in this country, dont like being out in the open in day light, but like Paul Westwood said this country is to small to support a large number off big cats, and the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent.

Well exactly. The mountain cats tend to be quite solitary animals and roam great distances. They also live a long time so the very same cat could have been spotted many times over the years and confused as a family or higher numbers.

Chances are there isnt a cat in the first place. It just seems very odd to me what with camera phones and sightings being so close that nobody has managed to get a decent but of footage.

People, rather worringly, have confused domestic cats at a distance too (the Fortean Times was always full of these stories and managed to disprove a good few)

southy wrote:
there is a 8mm film off a big cat taken on bodmin moor some time back. if its the same type off cat that you find on the slopes off the andies mountains then it would have no problem surviving in this country, its use to a much bigger range off temperature than we get in this country, dont like being out in the open in day light, but like Paul Westwood said this country is to small to support a large number off big cats, and the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent.

Have you read your last comment!!!

"the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent."

you propose that a wild cat living in the uk in KENT moved to BODMIN MOOR. Please give us the details of the 8mm film, where can we review it? when was it made?

Did the cat sign the ice rink petition or was it just a Saints supporter as it moved through the city on its way to Bodmin.

You comments become more extreme by the day

If there is a big cat roaming our hampshire country side it is more than likely that someone had ilegaly imported it until it got to big to handle and was not being very friendly any more so set it free, of which should of been its own natural habitate! But obviously to export it back to its own country would be a lot harder than bringing it to England. Point made!!!

stay local wrote:

southy wrote:
there is a 8mm film off a big cat taken on bodmin moor some time back. if its the same type off cat that you find on the slopes off the andies mountains then it would have no problem surviving in this country, its use to a much bigger range off temperature than we get in this country, dont like being out in the open in day light, but like Paul Westwood said this country is to small to support a large number off big cats, and the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent.

Have you read your last comment!!!

"the one spotted in the west country is probley the same one that been spotted in kent."

you propose that a wild cat living in the uk in KENT moved to BODMIN MOOR. Please give us the details of the 8mm film, where can we review it? when was it made?

Did the cat sign the ice rink petition or was it just a Saints supporter as it moved through the city on its way to Bodmin.

You comments become more extreme by the day

local come back when you know what your talking about.or go back to school and learn a bit more.
big cats like pumas have very big territory,s, to give you an idea how big twice the size off wales and a bit more. they do not tolerate other big cats even its own kind unless its breeding season.
local you do make your self look very silly times.

Twinkle toes wrote:
If there is a big cat roaming our hampshire country side it is more than likely that someone had ilegaly imported it until it got to big to handle and was not being very friendly any more so set it free, of which should of been its own natural habitate! But obviously to export it back to its own country would be a lot harder than bringing it to England. Point made!!!

Illegally imported? Not necessarily, they can live for over 20 years some of them, and they were legal to have as pets until the mid 70s.

There used to be a form of mountain lion that lived in the UK until the middle ages when it was hunted to exstinction (along with small bears and wolves). Go back further and we had a form of hyenna living here in the last iceage. The environment could definately hold an animal like this.

Ofcourse I'm not saying there actually is one ;-)

to answer your question on the 8mm film, it was shown on local tv news, after a report off one been seen in the blackvale hills, this was back in the early 90's while i was living and working down there.
click the link at the bottom off the news item it tells you a little bit more about big cats.

Not so fast ‘Stay Local’.

The beast possibly took the A38 to Junction 31 of the M5 and then onto junction 29 at Exeter Services, and merged with the A30 which would take the big cat to Honiton where it could have joined the A303, all the way beyond Stonehenge to The Buick Service station north of Winchester and onto the M3 continuing past Fleet Services. It would then have stayed on the M3 for approx 30 miles to join the M25 at Junction 12, progress along here anti clockwise as far as Junction 7 where the big cat would have found itself in the heart of Kent.

A total trip of appx 200 miles but shouldn’t be a problem given a clear run.

Bright Spark wrote:
Not so fast ‘Stay Local’.

The beast possibly took the A38 to Junction 31 of the M5 and then onto junction 29 at Exeter Services, and merged with the A30 which would take the big cat to Honiton where it could have joined the A303, all the way beyond Stonehenge to The Buick Service station north of Winchester and onto the M3 continuing past Fleet Services. It would then have stayed on the M3 for approx 30 miles to join the M25 at Junction 12, progress along here anti clockwise as far as Junction 7 where the big cat would have found itself in the heart of Kent.

A total trip of appx 200 miles but shouldn’t be a problem given a clear run.

Especially if it had a tiger in it's tank!

Blimey you must be older than me to remember that advertising slogan.

when you think about it bright spark a cat like a black panther can run at 45mph can jump straight up 18 feet and jump from a standing spot 30 feet, then 200 miles be nothing for them to cover and probably would do it over a course of a week. longer if they stop in one place to hunt for a while.

southy wrote:
when you think about it bright spark a cat like a black panther can run at 45mph can jump straight up 18 feet and jump from a standing spot 30 feet, then 200 miles be nothing for them to cover and probably would do it over a course of a week. longer if they stop in one place to hunt for a while.

With all large cats their range is partially dictated by the availability of prey, in conjunction with competing cats,(they keep out of each others territory) the maximum suggested range for a puma is 386 square miles but normal ranges are about 10 square miles. Now before you jump to conclusions please remember that square miles refers to area (the length times the width) and not length so the range at is largest would be in distance terms about 19 miles each way, or to be extreme you could claim a more linear range say 40 miles by 10 miles, remember this the very maximum range recorded in their native area and the exceptional figure. Most ranges for the puma are much smaller.

Now to cover the other data

Speed when chasing prey they can get to 45 kph or about 30 mph but this is only for a very short period and this is not their cruising speed.

The maximum reported jump height is 18 feet 5.4mtrs

Length 30 feet 9.1mtrs
Again these are the very largest figures for an animal in prime condition and normal jumps would be less (the same applies to humans, or the Olympics would be dull), if it were an escaped or released wild cat then its ability to find prey would be less than a fully wild animal, it would be used to human contact and more likely to be seen.

Going back to the video proof it is not sufficient to claim to have seen it, identified it as the same as something in the Andes with out giving a reference. For example The Devon beach beast (Jan 2009) papers were reporting this as evidence of big cats in Devon, but when looked into it was a fur seal caucus. Source http://www.cryptomun
do.com/cryptozoo-new
s/exmoorbeachbeast/

There have been many reported sighting of ‘beasts’ but when there is a search for more evidence….footprin
ts, dead animals both hunter and hunted, trapped animal it all comes up short.

As I have and others suggest before you cannot bend the rules of reality to fit your own view of the world. Stop making outlandish claims and then create random facts to justify them it does not work.

So no, it is not the super cat that can run faster than the recorded speed, for distances many times further than its maximum range, whilst not being seen and killing prey.

Myself and a mate saw a 'big cat' in Mayflower Park back in the early nineties. It was about 1am, no alcohol or drugs were involved! and what we saw about 50ft in front of us, crossing our path was best described as having the body of a greyhound but a bit thicker, and a cat like head, it walk across a concrete area from one bush to another, stopping to look at us and then padding away. We looked at it, then at each other, and rather pathetically legged it back to my car. Because I know that I saw this animal, whenever I recount the story and it is met with derision I get a bit miffed and can't understand why it is thought so incredulous?

Bright Spark wrote:
Not so fast ‘Stay Local’. The beast possibly took the A38 to Junction 31 of the M5 and then onto junction 29 at Exeter Services, and merged with the A30 which would take the big cat to Honiton where it could have joined the A303, all the way beyond Stonehenge to The Buick Service station north of Winchester and onto the M3 continuing past Fleet Services. It would then have stayed on the M3 for approx 30 miles to join the M25 at Junction 12, progress along here anti clockwise as far as Junction 7 where the big cat would have found itself in the heart of Kent. A total trip of appx 200 miles but shouldn’t be a problem given a clear run.

LOL.
Must have been a Jaguar.

local, like you said all depends on prey, it is known that big cats in the adies can cover east and west side of the mountains range,now your talking a few 100 miles across. it will all depend on how much is wooded/forest and open ground.
45 mph, jump height 18 feet Length 30 feet. is for a black panther in the wild and not a cougar (mountain lion puma) and is ave they have done much more, big cats will turn wild very quickly if they escape from a zoo or some one pet, like that lion that got free from that park, in the 70's after being caught alive, it was uncontrollable and had to be put down in the end, and that was only lose for a week.
if you ever get to see that film from bodin moor, at first it looks like if it might be an irish wolf hound laying there, its not till it gets up and slowly walks away is when it comes noticeable its a big cat. there's also that case where they found a dead sheep up in a branch of a tree, the only other animal that could do this is humans, bears got the power to this but dont, so your back to big cats and humans.

any way i not going to worry to much if there is one of the puma family out there on the lose, they dont like human contact and will stay away from humans, they are not like lions or tigers that will kill humans if need be.

Once I had 2 pumas.
Were a bit big so bought Adidas.

southy wrote:
local, like you said all depends on prey, it is known that big cats in the adies can cover east and west side of the mountains range,now your talking a few 100 miles across. it will all depend on how much is wooded/forest and open ground. 45 mph, jump height 18 feet Length 30 feet. is for a black panther in the wild and not a cougar (mountain lion puma) and is ave they have done much more, big cats will turn wild very quickly if they escape from a zoo or some one pet, like that lion that got free from that park, in the 70's after being caught alive, it was uncontrollable and had to be put down in the end, and that was only lose for a week. if you ever get to see that film from bodin moor, at first it looks like if it might be an irish wolf hound laying there, its not till it gets up and slowly walks away is when it comes noticeable its a big cat. there's also that case where they found a dead sheep up in a branch of a tree, the only other animal that could do this is humans, bears got the power to this but dont, so your back to big cats and humans.

No I said the range area for pumas is significantly lees than the distance you claim a puma could have travelled, in addition to this they do not have a ‘top speed’ of 45mph it is more like 30 mph for a very short distance, and this would only be for an animal in prime condition.

Please give the evidence for captive cats turning wild on release, I am sure born free foundation would challenge your claim as they have strived to return animals to the wild but have only been successful when they have minimised human contact from day one.

As for escaped big cats being uncontrollable that is different from being adapted to live in the open. Uncontrollable = might attack people. Adapted to live outside can free hunt and kill prey.

The British big cat society do not mention the footage of the beast of Bodmin but they do refer to the cardboard cut out of a big cat which was photographed and sold to several papers.

To put it simply you are making tings up again and do not listen when people correct you.

stay local wrote:

southy wrote:
local, like you said all depends on prey, it is known that big cats in the adies can cover east and west side of the mountains range,now your talking a few 100 miles across. it will all depend on how much is wooded/forest and open ground. 45 mph, jump height 18 feet Length 30 feet. is for a black panther in the wild and not a cougar (mountain lion puma) and is ave they have done much more, big cats will turn wild very quickly if they escape from a zoo or some one pet, like that lion that got free from that park, in the 70's after being caught alive, it was uncontrollable and had to be put down in the end, and that was only lose for a week. if you ever get to see that film from bodin moor, at first it looks like if it might be an irish wolf hound laying there, its not till it gets up and slowly walks away is when it comes noticeable its a big cat. there's also that case where they found a dead sheep up in a branch of a tree, the only other animal that could do this is humans, bears got the power to this but dont, so your back to big cats and humans.

No I said the range area for pumas is significantly lees than the distance you claim a puma could have travelled, in addition to this they do not have a ‘top speed’ of 45mph it is more like 30 mph for a very short distance, and this would only be for an animal in prime condition.

Please give the evidence for captive cats turning wild on release, I am sure born free foundation would challenge your claim as they have strived to return animals to the wild but have only been successful when they have minimised human contact from day one.

As for escaped big cats being uncontrollable that is different from being adapted to live in the open. Uncontrollable = might attack people. Adapted to live outside can free hunt and kill prey.

The British big cat society do not mention the footage of the beast of Bodmin but they do refer to the cardboard cut out of a big cat which was photographed and sold to several papers.

To put it simply you are making tings up again and do not listen when people correct you.

local go and do some reading, first time a cardboard cut out, can get up turn round and walk away, if you dont know what 8mm film is i tell you its moving pictures cine film and is not a still.
quote"Black panthers are elusive animals. People rarely see them in the wild, even though their existence has been confirmed across vast areas of South and Southeast Asia, Central and South America and some parts of Africa.
An animal’s habitat is the place where its basic needs for food, water, shelter, and reproduction are met. Black panthers are adapted to living in a wide variety of habitats within their range. The black panther’s habitats include the rainforest, marshland, woodlands, swamps, savannahs, and even mountains and deserts
Only two types of big cats are scientifically recognized as legitimate black panthers: black leopard and black jaguar.but can include cougar, bobcat, lynx, jaguarundi.
you put a live animal in with a pride off lions and see what happens, once they had the thrill off the chase and tasted warm blood its a different matter.

give you an idea what your dealing with cine film, super8 (8mm) there,s 250 frames per meter, a meter will run though in about 10 seconds, now to do what your suggesting a card board cut out, dont you think that would be to noticeable, just think about it for while, the person/s doing it this way would know what he doing and would know he could not hide it. because it would mean taken 2 frames shoot then some one moving a very tiny bit when i say tiny i mean about a millameter at a time,then take 2 more frames and keep doing this till he had 5 mins off film, to do it this way would take at lest 3/4 of a day,and would show that it was done like that, because off tree movement, passing clouds and the shadows from the sun, they would all be jerky and not smooth running, and the news film team editors would off spotted this right away. another way is to hand paint each frame, but this takes a very long time to and again is easy spotted by the film team editors, and over lapping filming and double exposure is all to easy spotted.

southy wrote:
give you an idea what your dealing with cine film, super8 (8mm) there,s 250 frames per meter, a meter will run though in about 10 seconds, now to do what your suggesting a card board cut out, dont you think that would be to noticeable, just think about it for while, the person/s doing it this way would know what he doing and would know he could not hide it. because it would mean taken 2 frames shoot then some one moving a very tiny bit when i say tiny i mean about a millameter at a time,then take 2 more frames and keep doing this till he had 5 mins off film, to do it this way would take at lest 3/4 of a day,and would show that it was done like that, because off tree movement, passing clouds and the shadows from the sun, they would all be jerky and not smooth running, and the news film team editors would off spotted this right away. another way is to hand paint each frame, but this takes a very long time to and again is easy spotted by the film team editors, and over lapping filming and double exposure is all to easy spotted.

What I had asked you for is details of the film you claim to have seen as it is not reported on any of the big cat sights in the UK, but they do report a hoax sighting of a cardboard cut out but no reports of a film. So where did you see this?

Are you still claiming that a puma type animal can run at 45 mph as that is not correct?

Are you still claiming that a big cats range in the UK (despite its aversion to human contact) is between Kent and Bodmin moor, a range which is a factor of ten to twelve times greater than the largest range recorded in the wild?

Are you completely unable to recognise criticism and unable to answer specific questions without resorting to slurs? (“local go and do some reading” your words)

Try reading here http://www.messybeas
t.com/britbigcats.ht
m

local i told you it was on local tv in the west country, a number off years ago back in the early 90's while i was living and working down there, try clicking the link where it says "Click here to read Hampshire’s Big Cat Files" and read what the other guy got to say. plus when they put a tracking device on a big cat one side off the andies and that cat shows up on the other side and returns back to near the same location, your not talking about a territory that is only 386 square miles is this more likey to be a short stay location hunting ground before moving on to the next part off its territory, but a territory that at lest a few hundred miles across, did you ever watch that documentary on tv about a female cheetah, where they was filming it few weeks then it disappeared on them and they relocated her more than 50 miles away few days later. this is how big cats in the wild act they work a part of there territory for awhile then move on to the next part. and if you look at the unexplaine reports in the south uk. you get reports then go's quiet but then you get reports in another location and so on.
that 45mph is a recorded speed of puma one or two more might be able to go faster. you try chasing a pet cat it would make you look silly it trots faster than you can run at full speed, 45mph is hunting speed lo but no one is sure how long they can keep this up, ideas are changing after watching and recording a 3 hour chase of a goat on a rocky cliff by a cat

So there is not any film but you do recall seeing a news article about it in the 1990s. Which means unless you have a perfect memory, you are unlikely to remember the type of film any footage was shot on.
If you blindly accept this level of reporting then I am sure you believe every echo story about UFOs as they are always reported as truth only to turn out weather balloons etc.


Can you now look up the term territory as it refers to the complete living area of and animal, I guess you are considering how an animal moves from one area to another when it is forced out by competing species, or you could argue that the Mallard steam train ran for London to New York as it was shipped there on a exhibition run. As for the territory of a Cheetah, female maintain a territory and they very between 13 and 580 square miles (remember the maths here, 580 square miles make a box area 24 miles each side) which is still 150 mile short of the suggested territory for a big cat between Kent and Bodmin. Whereas as range refers to the area where all animals of the species live (the range of the lynx is across North America)

Again remember most predators can only manage their top speed for a very short bust whist attacking prey. This is not their cruising speed!

“ideas are changing after watching and recording a 3 hour chase of a goat on a rocky cliff by a cat” you words source please kind give the details of where you have seen this.

You have come up with a daft hypothesis ( one Puma is hunting between Kent and Bodmin), and rather than admit it is a stupid and an ill thought idea you then go on to try and prove your point with more and more bizarre suggestions, all with out referent to source so that they can be confirmed. Even when confront by you own examples you still hopelessly cling to your story claiming others need to read, check facts etc.

In internet terms you appear to be a troll, and with your user name “Southy of Redbridge” it makes me wonder if you are not based at in the Echo at Redbridge and are tasked with making brazen unfounded statements to drive the comments up?

local said "So there is not any film but you do recall seeing a news article about it in the 1990s. Which means unless you have a perfect memory, you are unlikely to remember the type of film any footage was shot on." easy to remember when my self use super 8 cine film, it was standard home cine film use, it took over from standard 8 back in the 70's, super 8 film came in a cartridge and was much easyer to use, and was used right into the 90's, i still use super 8 film today it has better qualitys than magnetic tape, mini cd or chip for personal use, idea for you try e-mailing the tv studios in the west country. oh i have a very good memory more so over long term.but it helps even more if you can associate with what you was doing at the time and why.
territory is an area covered by animal over a giving period and to return to the location, that time period is covered for animals like this over years, and not like it use to be they are learning more now about animals and what they do using electronic tracking and theres been a lot off surprises, in the case off the cheetah there was no other cheetah that push it out off its territory it just change hunting ground, like the puma in the andies mountians. and it now though about the territorys are much larger than they first thought. its only just starting to form a true picture what is going on, how big the cycle is of going from one hunting ground and returning back to the same hunting ground and can take a few years to compleat.
we just dont know what a big cat can do for at speed and how long it can last for, the only info we got is whats been caught on film, chasing a prey and thats all we got to go on at the moment, theres no film off them being chase by some thing else apart from a another big cat, and they will chase for a short distance so not to waste energy (bit like humans they can run a 100 yards at there top speed in a race, but when chase by a some one who wants to do them harm you can treable this distance).
try bbc nature programs for the cat and goat chase.
your clinging to old ideas and you need to be more open minded, we are learning new things every day about things, thing that we use to think was fact say 10 years ago is changing with new technology being applyed to old ideas and we finding out things are not has it first seems and there is more to it.
read what Paul Westwood is saying before you say any thing more.

Lets go back to you statement about an 8mm film, you say you know it was 8mm as you have an 8mm camera, but you saw the footage on a TV programme, therefore you have assumed it was an 8mm film this is not evidence. You have not provided ay source or reference for this film whereas I have provided details of two hoaxes in the Devon area I have searched for any link to what you claim but there is nothing I can locate. This leaves two possible options either I am not good at searching for info or people promoting the theory of big cats in the UK don’t mention it as they know it is a fake
Here is the suggested reading from the echo web site
Fellow enthusiast Paul Westwood, of Big Cats Monitors, takes a much more cautious approach. He says he has heard of just three sightings in Hampshire in the last three years. “There are a few big cats in this country but we are only talking small numbers,” he says. “It’s not possible for there to be a great number in the UK, it’s too small to support a large population of big cats. One cat could be responsible for all of the sightings in most of southern England.” He thinks the vast majority of sightings – which usually involve a black-coloured cat – are simply a case of mistaken identity.
Again saying that it is unlikely that there are big cats in the UK.
Finally here is the link for a BBC news report regarding the total lack of evidence for big cats in the UK http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/england/devon
/4811820.stm
The report was from the department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs and dated March 2006.
But you still remain tenacious that a single Puma is living in Southern England somewhere between Kent and Bodmin giving it a territory of 5713 square miles.

sorry local maybe i should off said, they did say on tv that it was done on home 8mm cine camera. mind you it not be easy to use a 16mm or 32 mm movie camera, if you come across this film it was taken from a guys kitchen window.
Paul Westwood is more sensible about his approach over the matter, he not saying there is no big cats outs there, but what he is saying the numbers are very low,he puts a figure off 3 in the whole off the england, and what is happening is that they are hunting one ground till prey starts to hard find, then moving into another area and so forth and coming back to first area after a long while so the area is repopulated it self again, bit like those crocodiles in africa that swim 100's miles up river once a year because they know that wildebeest will be crossing the river at a certain spot at a certain time of the year.
have a chat with the EA bailiffs and keepers they will tell you what there dept like, on things like this officially there are no big cats in the wild in the uk, ask them personally what they think or if there proof to say other wize, and they will go very quiet on you.
the hardest part about it all are they breeding, that needs to be thought about real hard.

My goodness some progress but
If as you now concede there are only three at the most big cats loose in the UK then breeding is hardly an issue.

As for proof that is another problem. All big cats will need to kill at least once a week if not more depending upon what they catch, so even by your calculation there should be three animals killed per week. On Bodmin moor the easiest prey is sheep as they are bright white and in open spaces, if a big cat is predating in that area then it will continue to hunt until the sheep run out, it is hardly likely to suddenly decide to go to Kent. Secondly there would be other evidence, cats like most animals scent mark, leave tracks, get fur stuck on barbed wire etc. Why is this evidence not found?

Even the Scottish big cats site with help form professional trackers who took sample of hair, prints and saliva were unable to find any evidence of big cats
Link here

http://www.scottishb
igcats.co.uk/History
%20Channel%20in%20Se
arch%20of%20British%
20Big%20Cats.htm

or a farmer discharging a shot gun near by. or people and there dogs roaming about, or if one gets a suspected sighting to many people move in to the area to look for it.
yes i did read that was very interesting with that and dna testing, but like they said they might be looking in the wrong places for evidence to be found and just not come across it at the moment, and if thats the case then its only a matter off time and they will keep on looking.
paw prints tracks, would only show if the ground is right to leave tracks, but places like moors there probley be none, walking on heather will only leave a mark like the heather being press down, when trackers saying they are tracking it normaly means looking for signs of such nature like a turn leaf or the oxidise side of a stone facing down wards that sort off thing, to find a paw print it needs to be undisdurbed by any other animal including human kind and not mess up by the weather, finding hair on barb wire should be easy, unless your looking fields where sheep are kept, sheep fields fences have got a 6 to 9 inch wire mesh on the bottom half of the fence or/and probley be surrounded by a hedge row, so a cat is more likey to jump it that try to go though it, so you see its not going to be easy for them.