Nature expert believes Eastleigh council is cashing in on treetop assault course (From Daily Echo)

Any wildlife people observe in Itchen Valley C.P. is tolerant of close contact with humans and thus can be seen in many places. The existing levels of human intrusion mean that there is not much to see unless you go very early in the morning or late at night. The only way to really help wildlife would be to close the park permanently to all human visitors - including all the Nimbies who seem to think their presence is somehow no problem at all to animals. Chwis I would stick to Spwingwatch if I were you you.

Well said Andy, honestly people don't consider that this park has loads of human, dog, horse visitors already tramping over wildlife, there is a marvellous field left to grass/flowers with paths through it, far away from the Go Ape path but visitors still insist on running off the path and through it, and dogs.

CP sorry but you're talking out of your bottom!

Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors.
If fisherman are deterred by the noise
and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Where is not a wildlife hotspot in Britain nowadays? Sorry, whatever is to be built there is always an environmentalist saying that the specific site is of particular wildlife importance. Move the Go-Ape course somewhere else and there will be another reason why it should not go ahead. Indeed, the planned location of Go-Ape within Itchen Valley Country Park has already been moved from its original planned location having listened to concerns voiced. As I say, wherever it goes there will always be a small hard core of killjoys, generally with an average age of 65.

There was no strategic planning what so ever, just big egos pushing through their pet projects without the brains to do things properly. I really wanted one of these facilities but in the right place for people and wildlife. There was no solid process to determine the right place, just bullying and two enormous egos and very poor understanding of theri jobs. Weak and manipulative arguments. The original site at IVCP was a MUCH more sterile plantation and the so called consultation decided to move it after 5 mins of chat. I'm not saying the horse community views should not have been listened to but it was not rigorous and strategic making sure it was the best for wildlife and people in the borough. It is just about the parking meters. The management of the park is obsessed with income from parking meters and I understand that in todays economic and political climate but Lib Dems should be more thoughtful. The park didn't even talk to the fishing/river community business even though council policies say they should have and this will cost the public purse money! Thats incompetence or worse. They have ended up in a much worse site for wildlife because they could not be bothered doing their jobs properly.

"This is someone putting cash into the pockets of a council"

A strong statement to make, are you able to back that up with evidence?

The ideal site for go ape would have been the former fleming park golf course

hulla baloo wrote:
"This is someone putting cash into the pockets of a council"

A strong statement to make, are you able to back that up with evidence?

The cash comes from the parking meters (think Big Yellow Taxi!). Lots and lots of it. The wildlife team at IVCP are traffic wardens. The Lib Dems should know better, they should put wildlife before short term cash generators (parking meters for Gods sake!) When Andy from Locks Heath went to Moors Valley he missed the vital point. Its excellent on that site cos there is a huge sterile plantation all around it. What the councillors saw was the £££ from parking meters. Its simply the credit crunch and has been coming in parks for years. If a Tory government get in they will want to stop paying for the public green spaces altogether and have them staffed by volunteers. No wildlife team at all, yet alone one that is really undercover traffic wardens. It will be even worse! The Lib Dems should have known better, should have thought for themselves but they stopped asking questions and just get bullied by the cleverer politicians. Seen it a million times. Good people stop thinking and politicians start to believe in their own opinions so much they fail us all.

margaret raff wrote:
Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors. If fisherman are deterred by the noise and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

I think you are exaggerating the potential impact of Go Ape in this location, to suit your own agenda perhaps?

Never Liked CP very much. Then I saw him picking up a Chinese Take Away in Totton (yes it was really him) and then driving off in a large German car. Enviro - mentalist.

I for one am fully in support of a project like this that encourages people (who likely wouldn't otherwise) to get into the woods and enjoy them. If we are to preserve what's left of our natural spaces they have to be as inclusive of the public as possible, just a shame it isn't all free to use.
Interesting CP mentions Stoke Park woods as an alternative; I spent my youth playing in those woods, building dens & tree houses etc, (probably all banned by some killjoy now) and I was appalled to visit it a couple of years back & realise how much had disappeared forever as a result of development.
We simply have to preserve as much as we can before it's too late and if that means letting the public use it for go-ape etc rather than solely the dog walkers and pure nature buffs lets do it.

margaret raff wrote:
Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors.
If fisherman are deterred by the noise
and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Never mind about the jets soaring overhead eh? LOL!

margaret raff wrote:
Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors.
If fisherman are deterred by the noise
and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Suggest you also look love, at the number of fishermen who sit there listening to their iPods! ;D

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

margaret raff wrote:
Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors.
If fisherman are deterred by the noise
and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Never mind about the jets soaring overhead eh? LOL!

And with the cost of fishing exorbitant frankly I'd be happy if they all left, the banks would return to a natural state and the locals might get a chance to enjoy the river again rather than a few wealthy anglers who can afford to pay for the privelege.

Have to say the only wildlife I have ever seen at Itchen Valley are the odd squirrel or the odd bird! I don't see the validity in this argument!

You have to laugh at the stupidity of Nimbies such as Margaret Raff who with a straight face can complain about the impact of "noise" from a non-adjacent outdoor physical activity on an area bounded on two sides by a motorway and an airport. The otters seem to have adjusted not only to that noise but also the shouts, screams and barks already emanating from IVCP visitors which Mrs Raff has incredibly overlooked.. Yes I have been to GoApe at Moors Valley and this dumb notion that everybody spends all their time in the trees screaming is pure invention in the minds of people such as Concerned. It does not happen. If anything the thirty or so people on the course at any one time are quieter than a similar number of people on the ground because they are concentrating on where they are going and what they are doing, just as rock climbers do. Has anybody ever heard rock climbers yelling and screaming at each other? No, and neither have I. If anything the fear and concentration makes you quieter.
Concerned, having had all his/her other objections comprehensively dismissed has now been reduced to name calling and accusations of corruption. This has been a long overdue defeat for the hypocrisy and selfishness of Nimbyism and Nimbies here who persist in this rearguard sniping are fully deserving of all the contempt and ridicule being rightly heaped on them.

Miles Way wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

margaret raff wrote: Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors. If fisherman are deterred by the noise and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Never mind about the jets soaring overhead eh? LOL!

And with the cost of fishing exorbitant frankly I'd be happy if they all left, the banks would return to a natural state and the locals might get a chance to enjoy the river again rather than a few wealthy anglers who can afford to pay for the privelege.

I don't suppose any of you have ever fished locally. If you have, you would realise that it costs less to fish at Lower Itchen Fisheries all day, than it is to use Go Ape for a couple of hours! I would also like to point out that the river has to be managed, so that it doesn't flood. If it's left alone, the weed will grow and it will be ruined, and therefore not available for anyone to appreciate. You only have to look at the state of the river at Mansbridge, which has not been managed. I've never fished, nor am I ever likely to, but I can appreciate the hard work that is needed to conserve a world famous chalk river, like the Itchen. Fish are not frightened off by ipods but they will be by constant shouting from those using Go Ape zipwires, just 30 metres away, which at busy times would mean as many as 80+ per hour! It's a shame that the councillors and most of the people commenting on Go Ape seem to lack common sense or a wish to preserve this park. "Soton North", just to let you know, those of us who wish to preserve the park are not necessarily pensioners, most of us are young!

Go Ape cost over £100 for a family for a couple of hours, we went once in Bracknell. If you want to talk about exhorbitant look at their entry prices. Who can afford that? We would love to go again but there is no way I can afford that (and they they charge to park as well). Why cant the council do something cheaper for the kids?

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
You have to laugh at the stupidity of Nimbies such as Margaret Raff who with a straight face can complain about the impact of "noise" from a non-adjacent outdoor physical activity on an area bounded on two sides by a motorway and an airport. The otters seem to have adjusted not only to that noise but also the shouts, screams and barks already emanating from IVCP visitors which Mrs Raff has incredibly overlooked.. Yes I have been to GoApe at Moors Valley and this dumb notion that everybody spends all their time in the trees screaming is pure invention in the minds of people such as Concerned. It does not happen. If anything the thirty or so people on the course at any one time are quieter than a similar number of people on the ground because they are concentrating on where they are going and what they are doing, just as rock climbers do. Has anybody ever heard rock climbers yelling and screaming at each other? No, and neither have I. If anything the fear and concentration makes you quieter.
Concerned, having had all his/her other objections comprehensively dismissed has now been reduced to name calling and accusations of corruption. This has been a long overdue defeat for the hypocrisy and selfishness of Nimbyism and Nimbies here who persist in this rearguard sniping are fully deserving of all the contempt and ridicule being rightly heaped on them.

Dont know what you are on this is not a rock climbing place? Its more like Gladiators, people scream as they swing through the trees, thats why its such fun! Tarzan noises or Im going be doing "Geronimoooooooooooo
oooooo" if I ever get to go again. People should just put up with the noise, its the price that is outrageous.

whovian wrote:

Andy Locks Heath wrote: You have to laugh at the stupidity of Nimbies such as Margaret Raff who with a straight face can complain about the impact of "noise" from a non-adjacent outdoor physical activity on an area bounded on two sides by a motorway and an airport. The otters seem to have adjusted not only to that noise but also the shouts, screams and barks already emanating from IVCP visitors which Mrs Raff has incredibly overlooked.. Yes I have been to GoApe at Moors Valley and this dumb notion that everybody spends all their time in the trees screaming is pure invention in the minds of people such as Concerned. It does not happen. If anything the thirty or so people on the course at any one time are quieter than a similar number of people on the ground because they are concentrating on where they are going and what they are doing, just as rock climbers do. Has anybody ever heard rock climbers yelling and screaming at each other? No, and neither have I. If anything the fear and concentration makes you quieter. Concerned, having had all his/her other objections comprehensively dismissed has now been reduced to name calling and accusations of corruption. This has been a long overdue defeat for the hypocrisy and selfishness of Nimbyism and Nimbies here who persist in this rearguard sniping are fully deserving of all the contempt and ridicule being rightly heaped on them.

Dont know what you are on this is not a rock climbing place? Its more like Gladiators, people scream as they swing through the trees, thats why its such fun! Tarzan noises or Im going be doing "Geronimoooooooooooo oooooo" if I ever get to go again. People should just put up with the noise, its the price that is outrageous.

If the local authorities get it right the cost should be minimal.I, like Mr Andy from Locks Heath have visited the excellent facilities at Moors Valley. This is managed by East Dorset County Council and they do a fine job. Year round, we used to take our young daughter there for just the cost of a parking ticket. There was also significantly more than a tree top walk. Differing levels of forest walks and some very well sculptured playgrounds along the way. It seems to me that some authoroties just want to get on the profit train rather than provide facilities for constituents. And as for the Nimbys......they need to find a career or a life. QED

Dear Andy from Locks Heath,
I never said corruption what is it with you and reading!!!! Read the above post again, I say INCOMPETENT not corruption. The word corruption came from your head. I have argued with others in the pub that corruption is very unlikely and have repeated that on here!!!!! You rmake up what people say, why cant you just read it instead? Read back your posts, why do you constantly put words in others mouths? I have never got personal and named called. YOU however, many, many times IN PRINT show yourself to be a very very angry man that insults at a drop of a hat. Sure, your eloquent but you frightened the life out of Robbo - we thought your head was going to explode. You need to relax. You decide for people what they think not based on the actual post. I never EVER said people scream ALL THE TIME, just that it is noisy (when I went it was, FACT, you can not call that lying!!! Perhaps it was quiet when you went I would not call you a liar). I have never got personal and name called. Saying that councillors dont do their jobs properly is hardly radicAL. You have put into print a lot of very insulting stuff. You havent resorted to name calling you started with it - go read your aggressive posts, yoga or valium might help.

*******
Dear Forest Hump,

"we used to take our young daughter there for just the cost of a parking ticket"


It will be £100 for a family.

as you say authorities are different,

The NIMBIES are an invention of those who dont think that is outrageous in a small public park. (ok in a large forest where people can go elsewhere)
*********

I would trust Chris Packham before the council anyday. If he thinks it should be moved then he must have a reason and he knows lots about wildlife then councillors.
If the one in Moors Valley is free how can East Dorset make it free and Eastleigh cant? Iis it cheaper to go there if it is free? How far?

concernedofstdenys wrote:
******* Dear Forest Hump, "we used to take our young daughter there for just the cost of a parking ticket" It will be £100 for a family. as you say authorities are different, The NIMBIES are an invention of those who dont think that is outrageous in a small public park. (ok in a large forest where people can go elsewhere) *********

Well, concerned of St Denys, if it is just a "small public park" then even more shame on the local authorities for charging 100 pounds for a family. The best advice is to not use it if it is truly that extortionate. To Whovian, asking the question about Moors Valley. It used to be free (10 years ago) and I cannot se it being any different now as it would be difficult to fence off due to it's area. Take the A-31 to Ashley Heath roundabout and take the exit north to Three-Legged-Cross. Moors Valley Country Park is a few miles on the right. They also have an excellent Municipal Golf course at very favourable rates. Just goes to show that local authorities can provide value for money providing they have honest management.

ballylickybanshee wrote:

Miles Way wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

margaret raff wrote: Let's focus on the river and avoid personal abusive comments. The council, so proud of otter recolonisation and water vole population growth did not consult Lower Itchen Fishery which manages the river adjacent to the park, nor Chris Packham who endorsed their Bio-diversity Action Plan. The council ignored submissions from both. Only 3 councillors visited the river, two of whom voted against the planning application. The Leader of the Council determined the date of the visit, just two days before the planning meeting and inconvenient for the majority of his councillors. If fisherman are deterred by the noise and no longer pay to fish the Itchen,then the river, its banks and creatures will not be cared for. That will be a most serious ecological impact which the Council has refused to recognise or anticipate.

Never mind about the jets soaring overhead eh? LOL!

And with the cost of fishing exorbitant frankly I'd be happy if they all left, the banks would return to a natural state and the locals might get a chance to enjoy the river again rather than a few wealthy anglers who can afford to pay for the privelege.

I don't suppose any of you have ever fished locally. If you have, you would realise that it costs less to fish at Lower Itchen Fisheries all day, than it is to use Go Ape for a couple of hours! I would also like to point out that the river has to be managed, so that it doesn't flood. If it's left alone, the weed will grow and it will be ruined, and therefore not available for anyone to appreciate. You only have to look at the state of the river at Mansbridge, which has not been managed. I've never fished, nor am I ever likely to, but I can appreciate the hard work that is needed to conserve a world famous chalk river, like the Itchen. Fish are not frightened off by ipods but they will be by constant shouting from those using Go Ape zipwires, just 30 metres away, which at busy times would mean as many as 80+ per hour! It's a shame that the councillors and most of the people commenting on Go Ape seem to lack common sense or a wish to preserve this park. "Soton North", just to let you know, those of us who wish to preserve the park are not necessarily pensioners, most of us are young!

wasn't the river happily flowing before it was "managed"?
When younger I used to enjoy the river (from Bishie to Mansbridge and the other way, as far as Winchester) with mates, fishing, swimming etc, now the banks everywhere are dotted with "private - no swimming" signs making it primarily for the benefit of paying anglers - that is shameful.
As for fish being scared of noise 30+ meters away can you substantiate that? as I'm surprised so many happily swim under bridges with traffic passing just a few feet overhead.
Common sense is to allow as many people with diverse interests as possible to enjoy all facilities, be it jumping in a river for fun, walking the dog or zipping through the trees on a high wire although as I said before it's a shame about the costs involved.

Noise doesn't frighten fish thats old wives tails but if it is too close to the river thats stupid because people pay a lot to fish and have Itchen well managed and they dont pay for it to be noisy. I walk Bittern to Bishopstoke and you hardly see anyone and its weirdly quiet and spooky out there. When the riverbank is council owned you see it is a disgusting mess.