Homes too expensive for young families (From Daily Echo)

research by brain washed goverment people who can make the figures look how they want.
the fact is we are being sold down the river by the eu and our anti english goverment and the old people are suffering as all the services get cut so the monies can be diverted elsewhere

Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford.
One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing.
Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed.
It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford.
One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing.
Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed.
It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

The house price is determined by many factors and ultimately by the home owner who puts a price on it. Nothing to do with the banks. New developments can and do alter their prices to make sales depending on the state of the market. I know you blame the banks for every ill that you see but try to be realistic.

I am sorry but I seem to be missing the point, is this an argument about race, about affordability of homes, or benefit scrounging...the article seems to refer to housing affordabilty..

I spent many years scrimping and saving towards owning my own home, I accepted it was not a right, and I cannot afford to go to the pub, buy a new car, go abroad for holidays, go clubbing...and even having a family has to be considered in the light of financial circumstances and the long term commitment... why therefore is it regarded as a right by so many?

If it is about benefits and the ability to obtain support from the state, I know far too many "indigenous" population who haven't worked, don't work, and have no intention of working...but they have families, all the trappings, holidays, high tech TVs, you name it, and all paid through the welfare system, and they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves, the taxpayer funds it all! secure in the knowledge they will want for nothing!

And as for race, this article seems to have been hijacked...yes there are those who see the UK as the easy option, but is that their fault or the fault of successive governments of whetever party for having such a benefit culture (and which includes our own scroungers...).

For too many, the welfare system is seen as a career option, and the aquisition of property a right, and not something that has to be worked **** hard for and earned through guts, determination and even pride!

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

if you read my post you would know that the reason why houses are not being built is due to government policy, not the banking crisis. If they weren't forcing developers to build social housing they would be building houses. We need proper new villages built, like a new Grange Park or Chartwell Green, not infill. I know you don't live in a council house (as your address was listed when you stood for the EU Parliament last) so don't pontificate about Thatcherite policies that never affected you.

Family Man wrote:
I am sorry but I seem to be missing the point, is this an argument about race, about affordability of homes, or benefit scrounging...the article seems to refer to housing affordabilty.. I spent many years scrimping and saving towards owning my own home, I accepted it was not a right, and I cannot afford to go to the pub, buy a new car, go abroad for holidays, go clubbing...and even having a family has to be considered in the light of financial circumstances and the long term commitment... why therefore is it regarded as a right by so many? If it is about benefits and the ability to obtain support from the state, I know far too many "indigenous" population who haven't worked, don't work, and have no intention of working...but they have families, all the trappings, holidays, high tech TVs, you name it, and all paid through the welfare system, and they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves, the taxpayer funds it all! secure in the knowledge they will want for nothing! And as for race, this article seems to have been hijacked...yes there are those who see the UK as the easy option, but is that their fault or the fault of successive governments of whetever party for having such a benefit culture (and which includes our own scroungers...). For too many, the welfare system is seen as a career option, and the aquisition of property a right, and not something that has to be worked **** hard for and earned through guts, determination and even pride!

Thank you Family man for the first non poliitical sensible post.
You like myself have worked hard all my life, struggled to pay a mortgage, kept my lifestyle to what I could afford, not expected or claimed benefits.
I just like you get very cross at the underclass of this country that never work, breed indiscriminately at our nexpense and have all the latest luxury gadgets and holidays with no thought to anyone else

Condor Man wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

if you read my post you would know that the reason why houses are not being built is due to government policy, not the banking crisis. If they weren't forcing developers to build social housing they would be building houses. We need proper new villages built, like a new Grange Park or Chartwell Green, not infill. I know you don't live in a council house (as your address was listed when you stood for the EU Parliament last) so don't pontificate about Thatcherite policies that never affected you.

Amazing Condor Man. For a change I did not even mention that wicked woman’s name or despicable word ‘Thatcherism’ but you have done it for me. Thanks.
Since when privately owned through borrowed money (Like my own you have referred to) Chartwell Green pigeon holes have become Chilworth or any better quality than housing units built for social housing?
Demand for providing social housing did not discourage house building, as all big construction firms were lining up to build more and more till the financial market hit the buffers.
It stinks of snobbery on your part if you think that those of us who live in own homes (and massive debts around our neck!) should not be concerned with those members of our human race who are less fortunate than us. Perhaps you can go to church of Sundays make Conservative style confessions to help you live with your conscience; sadly as non believer I have no such luxury, so my socialist soul will always be with underprivileged but decent members of our society.
Hey, if you had my address, why did you not send me x-mass card? You tight fisted Tory!

Derek of Dibden Purlieu wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

The house price is determined by many factors and ultimately by the home owner who puts a price on it. Nothing to do with the banks. New developments can and do alter their prices to make sales depending on the state of the market. I know you blame the banks for every ill that you see but try to be realistic.

Derek, sorry I do not share your opinion that banks had nothing to do with rise in house prices. Easy availability of finance that was made available by irresponsible banking sector contributed to the rapid rise. (And also the downfall of banking sector itself) Obviously there are many other factors that could contribute towards rise or fall in housing market, but availability of finance is biggest single factor.
Yes I agree with you that home owner’s attitude also plays a part. To me my house is only worth a roof over my head, some others may have different attitude than mine, but as a society if all of us are not concerned about those who can’t afford that roof over their heads we will collectively be investing in very unpleasant social environment.

From reading that article you'd think it's only families with kids who can't afford to buy their own place. It's not only them, other sections of society can't afford to buy their own properties either. Stop focussing on one section of society and consider everyone.

geoff51 wrote:

Family Man wrote:
I am sorry but I seem to be missing the point, is this an argument about race, about affordability of homes, or benefit scrounging...the article seems to refer to housing affordabilty.. I spent many years scrimping and saving towards owning my own home, I accepted it was not a right, and I cannot afford to go to the pub, buy a new car, go abroad for holidays, go clubbing...and even having a family has to be considered in the light of financial circumstances and the long term commitment... why therefore is it regarded as a right by so many? If it is about benefits and the ability to obtain support from the state, I know far too many "indigenous" population who haven't worked, don't work, and have no intention of working...but they have families, all the trappings, holidays, high tech TVs, you name it, and all paid through the welfare system, and they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves, the taxpayer funds it all! secure in the knowledge they will want for nothing! And as for race, this article seems to have been hijacked...yes there are those who see the UK as the easy option, but is that their fault or the fault of successive governments of whetever party for having such a benefit culture (and which includes our own scroungers...). For too many, the welfare system is seen as a career option, and the aquisition of property a right, and not something that has to be worked **** hard for and earned through guts, determination and even pride!

Thank you Family man for the first non poliitical sensible post.
You like myself have worked hard all my life, struggled to pay a mortgage, kept my lifestyle to what I could afford, not expected or claimed benefits.
I just like you get very cross at the underclass of this country that never work, breed indiscriminately at our nexpense and have all the latest luxury gadgets and holidays with no thought to anyone else

Two very good posts and close to the truth.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

if you read my post you would know that the reason why houses are not being built is due to government policy, not the banking crisis. If they weren't forcing developers to build social housing they would be building houses. We need proper new villages built, like a new Grange Park or Chartwell Green, not infill. I know you don't live in a council house (as your address was listed when you stood for the EU Parliament last) so don't pontificate about Thatcherite policies that never affected you.

Amazing Condor Man. For a change I did not even mention that wicked woman’s name or despicable word ‘Thatcherism’ but you have done it for me. Thanks. Since when privately owned through borrowed money (Like my own you have referred to) Chartwell Green pigeon holes have become Chilworth or any better quality than housing units built for social housing? Demand for providing social housing did not discourage house building, as all big construction firms were lining up to build more and more till the financial market hit the buffers. It stinks of snobbery on your part if you think that those of us who live in own homes (and massive debts around our neck!) should not be concerned with those members of our human race who are less fortunate than us. Perhaps you can go to church of Sundays make Conservative style confessions to help you live with your conscience; sadly as non believer I have no such luxury, so my socialist soul will always be with underprivileged but decent members of our society. Hey, if you had my address, why did you not send me x-mass card? You tight fisted Tory!

I didn't even give my mum a christmas card! You must admit that estates have failed largely because they lack heart. If you knock up a load of houses and house people with no connection to an area in them you'll never foster a sense of community. My mum grew up in very austere circumstances in Bitterne in the 50's. She grew up amongst a vast range of people who positively influenced her life. Sadly many people trapped in social housing lack the opportunity to meet people from other backgrounds and enhance their life chances.
This lunchtime I donated some stuff to Basics Bank, a charity run by middle class do gooders (probably living in nice houses) for the benefit of the less fortunate. As with the likes of Cadbury and Rowntree in the past it won't be the government that will improve peoples lives but the actions of those who have the means to donate.

No such bad stories where I live.
the masons protect our garden walls night and day; ensuring the non-belongers are priced out of the area.
There are some good aspects to be had - despite the fact that we in the New Forest have been funding the mating warrens of the city for decades

Oh yes, and I agree, thought this article was about houses not race/immigration

Iw61 wrote:

English defence league Hythe division wrote: Edl is a anti al queda movement and against islamification of England,Scotland,Wal es.We support our troops and make donations through help for heroes.I do not think this is extremist just patriotic.

Yet you still use the term 'final solution'!! You are a deluded right wing racist fool making excuses to hide the fact of what you really are.

for once I agree. Groups like the BNP and EDL either have to step up and prove themselves to be worthy of challenging the traditional parties or they should crawl back under the rock they came from.

It's very disappointing that the first mention of lack of affordable housing results in firstly a racialisation of the argument followed swiftly by a crude imagining of anyone who receives state benefits as a scrounger.

Family man talks about state benefits as he has never relied on them. Well when was the last time he saw a Doctor or visited a hospital - funded by guess who.. the state and what happens when he retires... hmmm a STATE pension....

Can't stand scroungers. He should keep on working 'til he drops not rely on the state, or rather the younger people who will have to work even harder because of the aging population, to help him put his feet up whilst sipping his cup of tea.

Housing shortages are nothing new in the UK, the last one was in the 50s and only alleviated by the vast state-led building programmes of the 1960s.

It was not just tenants who benefited but everyone. Basic supply and demand economics means that the increase in demand and state housing as a viable option acted to supress prices and rent across the sector. Bad for speculators and rachman-esque landlords but good for your average family.

Mistakes were made, yes; but so to in the private sector. Many developments being chucked up now are already starting to look run-down. Take a look at some of the places down near town quay and the old NY2 club. The same mistakes i.e cheap construction, poor design and lacklustre management are not an exclusive affliction of state building programmes.

As for Alan Whiteheads comments. Housing Associations have shown they canot deliver housing on the scale required. Part-let, part-but schemes also help only a slither of those best-off not those in genuine need.

We need to get serious in this debate. Good affordable housing benefits us all. Let's please not let the debate get hijacked

I would like to know where this average wage of £25,000 comes from. I would like these people who record the stats to do it on the ordinary working person, and not on managers and upwards. Then they will find the average would be around £12,000-15,000

Funny how Winchester is more affordable to families when house prices are considerably more than Southampton.

This may be because many who move up the earning ladder move out from Southampton.
As someone noted earlier Chav rules in Soton. Maybe if the council spent less time and money courting make believe wow factors with fellow freemasons and more money on creating suburban neighbourhoods of distinction the more upwardly mobile would stay.

As a white Anglo-Saxon (with a bit of Irish) graduate with a respectable but not amazing salary, I cannot afford to buy a house or flat so how a low paid family could do so is beyond me. Is this the fault of hordes of immigrants and the European Union? No, it is because of debt taken on while at university,a wildly inflated property market and my own personal profligacy. My generation is far more debt-ready than that of my parents and grandparents, but sadly this does not make us realistic receivers of mortgages in the current climate. I would also suggest many more of us choose to live alone rather than staying within larger family units or multiple house-shares, leading to a greater pressure on housing. This trend is something that definitely should not be blamed on economic migrants to the country, especially when one considers the previous complaints on threads in this forum of Polish workers bunking up together in various palaces around this fair city. Breath deeply, end lesson and try to ignore facile arguments of EDL.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Derek of Dibden Purlieu wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

The house price is determined by many factors and ultimately by the home owner who puts a price on it. Nothing to do with the banks. New developments can and do alter their prices to make sales depending on the state of the market. I know you blame the banks for every ill that you see but try to be realistic.

Derek, sorry I do not share your opinion that banks had nothing to do with rise in house prices. Easy availability of finance that was made available by irresponsible banking sector contributed to the rapid rise. (And also the downfall of banking sector itself) Obviously there are many other factors that could contribute towards rise or fall in housing market, but availability of finance is biggest single factor.
Yes I agree with you that home owner’s attitude also plays a part. To me my house is only worth a roof over my head, some others may have different attitude than mine, but as a society if all of us are not concerned about those who can’t afford that roof over their heads we will collectively be investing in very unpleasant social environment.

Easy availability of finance being responsible? Using this analogy the drunk isn't responsible because of the easy availability of drink, the innocent thief is tempted by the nice car that the owner had the nerve to park where it could be seen, the child snatcher has their target victim flaunted in front of them by the parent.... Strange logic you live by. What ever happened to personal responsibility where the individual made choices and accepted society's condemnation if they went off the rails?

House prices have been indirectly manipulated by the policies of Labour to the detriment of all first time buyers.

The only reason house prices are so high is due to an astounding amount of government support to the tune of around 319bn during 2007/2008. By April 2014 this money must be paid back and there will be not much money for mortgages. Interest rates will also rise due to inflation. I think this will all cause house prices to halve at least within a short period of time.

If you are a potential first time buyer then keep renting for just a little while longer. Your wait for a crash is nearly over!

geoff51 wrote:

Family Man wrote: I am sorry but I seem to be missing the point, is this an argument about race, about affordability of homes, or benefit scrounging...the article seems to refer to housing affordabilty.. I spent many years scrimping and saving towards owning my own home, I accepted it was not a right, and I cannot afford to go to the pub, buy a new car, go abroad for holidays, go clubbing...and even having a family has to be considered in the light of financial circumstances and the long term commitment... why therefore is it regarded as a right by so many? If it is about benefits and the ability to obtain support from the state, I know far too many "indigenous" population who haven't worked, don't work, and have no intention of working...but they have families, all the trappings, holidays, high tech TVs, you name it, and all paid through the welfare system, and they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves, the taxpayer funds it all! secure in the knowledge they will want for nothing! And as for race, this article seems to have been hijacked...yes there are those who see the UK as the easy option, but is that their fault or the fault of successive governments of whetever party for having such a benefit culture (and which includes our own scroungers...). For too many, the welfare system is seen as a career option, and the aquisition of property a right, and not something that has to be worked **** hard for and earned through guts, determination and even pride!

Thank you Family man for the first non poliitical sensible post. You like myself have worked hard all my life, struggled to pay a mortgage, kept my lifestyle to what I could afford, not expected or claimed benefits. I just like you get very cross at the underclass of this country that never work, breed indiscriminately at our nexpense and have all the latest luxury gadgets and holidays with no thought to anyone else

I too know extended families, only a few, with Sky TV, cars, laptops, the Internet, iPhones…as you say “all the latest luxury gadgets”. No members of these families work. To avoid work and gain maximum benefits the daughters “breed indiscriminately” as soon as they leave school. I know them well…they are my friends, my neighbours…people I went to school with. They are real and not a work of fiction by the Daily Mail. These families have no desire to buy property but do expect the council to house them.

What appears to be at least 90 percent of council housing in my neighbourhood is now privately owned. The council typically charge around £90 a week for a three bedroom house. Private landlords charge around £375 per week for the same properties. This earning potential is fuelling the rise in both house prices and rents. How can a young family afford to live anywhere unless they board the benefit gravy train?

The problem will only get worse due to the over generous benefits handed out by this country. In Southampton we now have huge numbers of East Europeans taking full advantage of these benefits. I am fully aware that this country, like many others in Western Europe, is facing a demographic time bomb. We need the immigration of younger people to offset our increasingly elderly population. But with these immigrant children comes the burden of their unemployed parents and their retired grandparents, all crammed into our three bed roomed ex-council semis. With their Polish Pay TV “Cyfrowy”, cars, laptops, Internet, iPhones…..Just like indigenous families.

The benefits’ system doesn’t aid the poor….it rewards the greedy landlords who feast on our taxes. I wonder how many councillors rent out ex-council properties???

Granny_Smith wrote:

geoff51 wrote:

Family Man wrote: I am sorry but I seem to be missing the point, is this an argument about race, about affordability of homes, or benefit scrounging...the article seems to refer to housing affordabilty.. I spent many years scrimping and saving towards owning my own home, I accepted it was not a right, and I cannot afford to go to the pub, buy a new car, go abroad for holidays, go clubbing...and even having a family has to be considered in the light of financial circumstances and the long term commitment... why therefore is it regarded as a right by so many? If it is about benefits and the ability to obtain support from the state, I know far too many "indigenous" population who haven't worked, don't work, and have no intention of working...but they have families, all the trappings, holidays, high tech TVs, you name it, and all paid through the welfare system, and they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves, the taxpayer funds it all! secure in the knowledge they will want for nothing! And as for race, this article seems to have been hijacked...yes there are those who see the UK as the easy option, but is that their fault or the fault of successive governments of whetever party for having such a benefit culture (and which includes our own scroungers...). For too many, the welfare system is seen as a career option, and the aquisition of property a right, and not something that has to be worked **** hard for and earned through guts, determination and even pride!

Thank you Family man for the first non poliitical sensible post. You like myself have worked hard all my life, struggled to pay a mortgage, kept my lifestyle to what I could afford, not expected or claimed benefits. I just like you get very cross at the underclass of this country that never work, breed indiscriminately at our nexpense and have all the latest luxury gadgets and holidays with no thought to anyone else

I too know extended families, only a few, with Sky TV, cars, laptops, the Internet, iPhones…as you say “all the latest luxury gadgets”. No members of these families work. To avoid work and gain maximum benefits the daughters “breed indiscriminately” as soon as they leave school. I know them well…they are my friends, my neighbours…people I went to school with. They are real and not a work of fiction by the Daily Mail. These families have no desire to buy property but do expect the council to house them.

What appears to be at least 90 percent of council housing in my neighbourhood is now privately owned. The council typically charge around £90 a week for a three bedroom house. Private landlords charge around £375 per week for the same properties. This earning potential is fuelling the rise in both house prices and rents. How can a young family afford to live anywhere unless they board the benefit gravy train?

The problem will only get worse due to the over generous benefits handed out by this country. In Southampton we now have huge numbers of East Europeans taking full advantage of these benefits. I am fully aware that this country, like many others in Western Europe, is facing a demographic time bomb. We need the immigration of younger people to offset our increasingly elderly population. But with these immigrant children comes the burden of their unemployed parents and their retired grandparents, all crammed into our three bed roomed ex-council semis. With their Polish Pay TV “Cyfrowy”, cars, laptops, Internet, iPhones…..Just like indigenous families.

The benefits’ system doesn’t aid the poor….it rewards the greedy landlords who feast on our taxes. I wonder how many councillors rent out ex-council properties???

And now recent Newspaper reports suggest all those millions of British expats are moving back to the UK. It gets worse.
Help we are full!!!!
Aaarrgghhhh Im dying!!!!

Derek of Dibden Purlieu wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Derek of Dibden Purlieu wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: Rather than mass immigration there was lot of emigration out of UK during last part of 19th and early part of 20th century, but housing still was luxury many could not afford. One group blaming the other for the problem, as some are doing, is not going to resolve housing problem. Real cause needs addressing. Council houses were sold on the cheap to attract votes, but first building of new council estates was slowed down then almost abandoned altogether, this created the shortages, which combined with bad behaviour of bankers increased house prices out of the reach of ordinary people. Sadly these policies have not been reversed. It is very sad that while many building workers are out of work and money available to bail out the Bankers, our government could not find sufficient money for building more houses.

The house price is determined by many factors and ultimately by the home owner who puts a price on it. Nothing to do with the banks. New developments can and do alter their prices to make sales depending on the state of the market. I know you blame the banks for every ill that you see but try to be realistic.

Derek, sorry I do not share your opinion that banks had nothing to do with rise in house prices. Easy availability of finance that was made available by irresponsible banking sector contributed to the rapid rise. (And also the downfall of banking sector itself) Obviously there are many other factors that could contribute towards rise or fall in housing market, but availability of finance is biggest single factor.
Yes I agree with you that home owner’s attitude also plays a part. To me my house is only worth a roof over my head, some others may have different attitude than mine, but as a society if all of us are not concerned about those who can’t afford that roof over their heads we will collectively be investing in very unpleasant social environment.

Easy availability of finance being responsible? Using this analogy the drunk isn't responsible because of the easy availability of drink, the innocent thief is tempted by the nice car that the owner had the nerve to park where it could be seen, the child snatcher has their target victim flaunted in front of them by the parent.... Strange logic you live by. What ever happened to personal responsibility where the individual made choices and accepted society's condemnation if they went off the rails?

'What ever happened to personal responsibility where the individual made choices and accepted society's condemnation if they went off the rails?'

Easy answer this one. People are taking the lead from the bankers who put us hundreds of billions in debt and subsequently get paid huge bonuses.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Interesting....

The echo are quite happy for the EDL to hijack the comments, but have deleted my responses.

Is the echo going to be backing the BNP next?

It will be interesting to see how all those one bedroom flat will go. So many and ill thought out, and the builders may be sorry for their frenzy greed. However, these flat could be bought out at a cheap price and put the students in them. I would also question the need to take over valuable land to build huge swathes of flats on the Solent - I do wonder if our governance have sound judgement.

goard

Redback wrote:
Interesting....

The echo are quite happy for the EDL to hijack the comments, but have deleted my responses.

Is the echo going to be backing the BNP next?

Hear, hear. My rebuttal of the EDL's obscene comments have also been deleted. What's going on in the censor’s office at the ECHO?
Perhaps they would like to post and tell us?

freefinker wrote:

Redback wrote:
Interesting....

The echo are quite happy for the EDL to hijack the comments, but have deleted my responses.

Is the echo going to be backing the BNP next?

Hear, hear. My rebuttal of the EDL's obscene comments have also been deleted. What's going on in the censor’s office at the ECHO?
Perhaps they would like to post and tell us?

The more I think about this censorship the more annoyed I am becoming. This is a free country where we rightly defend our precious right of free speech. And that includes the EDL, however much I may disagree with their views.
It is only by allowing their views to be freely expressed, so that the more sane citizens of this country can offer countering opinions, that the EDL is exposed for what they truly are – a very small band of semi-literate neo-Nazis.
Censoring both the EDL and all those who contributed to rebutting their offensive (but legal) opinions is a very retrograde step by the ECHO – who should be condemned by all who post on this site for this reprehensible action.

what is needed is to lift the ban on councils building there own homes allow them to require land to build on. this alone will bring down the prices of homes.
remember who bought in this rule yours truly maggies the 80's was starting point for most of our problems today, high unemployment, shortage of homes, more povty, higher crime rate and the widen of the gap between rich and poor

Condor Man wrote:

Iw61 wrote:

English defence league Hythe division wrote: Edl is a anti al queda movement and against islamification of England,Scotland,Wal es.We support our troops and make donations through help for heroes.I do not think this is extremist just patriotic.

Yet you still use the term 'final solution'!! You are a deluded right wing racist fool making excuses to hide the fact of what you really are.

for once I agree. Groups like the BNP and EDL either have to step up and prove themselves to be worthy of challenging the traditional parties or they should crawl back under the rock they came from.

the edl bnp and the nf are fascist extreme right wing capitalist groups, they are anti creed race and colour, remember hitler got to power by lieing to the german working class people, those groups are the same they will lie just to get to power.

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

Iw61 wrote:

English defence league Hythe division wrote: Edl is a anti al queda movement and against islamification of England,Scotland,Wal es.We support our troops and make donations through help for heroes.I do not think this is extremist just patriotic.

Yet you still use the term 'final solution'!! You are a deluded right wing racist fool making excuses to hide the fact of what you really are.

for once I agree. Groups like the BNP and EDL either have to step up and prove themselves to be worthy of challenging the traditional parties or they should crawl back under the rock they came from.

the edl bnp and the nf are fascist extreme right wing capitalist groups, they are anti creed race and colour, remember hitler got to power by lieing to the german working class people, those groups are the same they will lie just to get to power.

Totally agree southy and one of the first actions Hitler took was to censor the press and prevent free speech. Now, in 2010, it's the ECHO censoring free speech. Did you notice how many posts they deleted from this story overnight?

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

Iw61 wrote:

English defence league Hythe division wrote: Edl is a anti al queda movement and against islamification of England,Scotland,Wal es.We support our troops and make donations through help for heroes.I do not think this is extremist just patriotic.

Yet you still use the term 'final solution'!! You are a deluded right wing racist fool making excuses to hide the fact of what you really are.

for once I agree. Groups like the BNP and EDL either have to step up and prove themselves to be worthy of challenging the traditional parties or they should crawl back under the rock they came from.

the edl bnp and the nf are fascist extreme right wing capitalist groups, they are anti creed race and colour, remember hitler got to power by lieing to the german working class people, those groups are the same they will lie just to get to power.

Totally agree southy and one of the first actions Hitler took was to censor the press and prevent free speech. Now, in 2010, it's the ECHO censoring free speech. Did you notice how many posts they deleted from this story overnight?

Well no surprise here then. Everytime a contentious issue like this is raised all the scum come out, fuelled up on white lightning cider bought from the corner shop,trying to type their meaningless drivel with their knuckles. Its embarrassing but also in a strange way entertaining. These reactionary headcases are probably of the samme ilk that type their rubbish on the BBC message boards. There is even a website dedicated to them here

http://ifyoulikeitso
muchwhydontyougolive
there.com/

Hilarious!!!