Double frustration for hunt followers (From Daily Echo)
When news happens, text SDE and your photos or videos to 80360. Or contact us by email and phone.
No vote on hunting in 2011 as Balmer Lawn Boxing Day hunt is cancelled
11:40am Tuesday 28th December 2010 in News
New Forest Hounds paraded at Balmer Lawn Hotel after their Boxing Day hunt was cancelled due to the cold weather
Hunting enthusiasts in Hampshire have been left frustrated by a Government decision to shelve a promised vote on repealing a controversial ban.
The Conservatives made an election pledge to give a free vote in Parliament on the foxhunting legislation, which was passed in 2005 and outlawed hunting with dogs.
But it has been reported that senior officials at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs have admitted there won’t be a vote in 2011.
It was a double disappointment for the New Forest Hunt who also had to cancel their Boxing Day meet because of icy conditions.
The event was planned for yesterday, as it’s traditionally never held on a Sunday, and around 400 hunting supporters still went to Balmer Lawn Hotel in Brockenhurst to see a parade of the hounds.
Paul Ames, senior master at the New Forest Hunt, said: “It looks like it’s becoming one of the most difficult seasons we’ve ever had. We’ve only been out twice in December because of the weather, and we’re usually out twice a week.
Many members of the hunt were resigned to the parliamentary vote on foxhunting being postponed.
Mr Ames added: “I don’t think it will happen for another 12 to 18 months.
“I can wait, and my hunting colleagues can wait. We know at some point the free vote will appear, and we’re very patient because the country must come first.”
Huntsman Michael Woodhouse says pro-hunting people realise repealing legislation is not the Government’s top priority.
He said: “I think people understand and respect the decision. We’re managing – we have kept going over the last six years and we will keep going until it’s repealed.”
But a Hampshire Tory MP is among those hoping to make sure that fox hunting stays illegal.
Gosport MP Caroline Dinenage, a member of the recently-formed Conservatives Against Fox Hunting, backed a statement that said: “This Government has far more important things to do than spending time on bringing back cruelty to animals for sport.”
Campaign group League Against Cruel Sports also say there is little public support for overturning the ban.
In a poll they commissioned, 76 per cent of those surveyed said they thought foxhunting should remain against the law.
Comments(89)
downfader
says...
12:08pm Tue 28 Dec 10
The Wickham Man
says...
12:13pm Tue 28 Dec 10
023
says...
12:28pm Tue 28 Dec 10
X Old Bill
says...
12:28pm Tue 28 Dec 10
The Huntsman, the whipper-in, the terrier-man and their assistants actually run the hunt, under the Master. They are employed to so do.
.
Hunting foxes with hounds can be argued as being effective in that the weak get caught and the strong get away - If it is done properly!
.
Consider that the New Forest Buck hounds stopped hunting voluntarily, without legislation compelling them to cease, and maybe, one day the support for traditional fox hunting will go the same way. Foxes will still be hunted of course, unless we reintroduce the wolf to replace man as a predator.
023
says...
12:38pm Tue 28 Dec 10
downfader
says...
12:45pm Tue 28 Dec 10
023 wrote:Partially I suspect, I would imagine theres a lot of poison put down too.
I suspect the car is the foxes biggest 'predator'!
downfader
says...
12:55pm Tue 28 Dec 10
The Wickham Man wrote:There are other pest control methods. There are also otherways to keep foxes at bay (improved fencing around foul for one).
It was just pest control, and it was a very rural pursuit. Nobody in towns ever cared much about the gamekeeper controlling squirrels with a shotgun, even though many animals died slowly and in pain. What saboteurs really hate is the idea of what they perceive as an elite class enjoying themselves, but they are too hypocritical to admit this to themselves or to anyone else. I despise animal rights terrorists, but for what they do, not for who they are. Big difference.
.
As I said above - dog fighting (or c0ck fighting for that matter) and badger baiting used to be seen as rural persuits too. Fox hunting is not pest control as it actively hunts the animal, wears it out and then the dogs tear it apart. It is highly ritualistic (Prince Charles is one of many on record who has dabbed the foxes blood on his sons when they were younger), and ritual has no real place in pest control - only a clean kill.
.
A good game keeper with the right air rifle wont let any pest suffer. A decent shot to the head will mean instant death.
.
Its also worth all Pro-hunt supporters remembering that many, many people signed the petitions for the ban, and wrote to their MPs and the Government. Many of these are normal people just like you or I, they are not inclined to sabbotage a hunt and neither do they condone many of the sabboteurs actions.
forest hump
says...
1:05pm Tue 28 Dec 10
. About six pints!
freefinker
says...
1:48pm Tue 28 Dec 10
.
When hunting ceased during WW2, and during foot and mouth epidemics, there was NO population explosion. Other population control methods are much more effective – and humane.
.
The only reason I can see as to why people hunt with hounds is because they are sadists who enjoy inflicting fear and pain on other life forms.
Linesman
says...
2:57pm Tue 28 Dec 10
Bronson69
says...
3:23pm Tue 28 Dec 10
X Old Bill wrote:****
The two gentlemen in the picture with the hounds are not 'toffs', 'elite', 'country gentry' or anything else like that - They are ordinary working men doing a job. The Huntsman, the whipper-in, the terrier-man and their assistants actually run the hunt, under the Master. They are employed to so do. . Hunting foxes with hounds can be argued as being effective in that the weak get caught and the strong get away - If it is done properly! . Consider that the New Forest Buck hounds stopped hunting voluntarily, without legislation compelling them to cease, and maybe, one day the support for traditional fox hunting will go the same way. Foxes will still be hunted of course, unless we reintroduce the wolf to replace man as a predator.
geoff51
says...
3:28pm Tue 28 Dec 10
Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people,
We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain.
Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappears
X Old Bill
says...
3:43pm Tue 28 Dec 10
What a strange reply!
Did you manage to delete your 'reasoned response' before hitting the enter key?
Try again; But on the assumption that you may not agree with something I have said, I would point out:
I have not said whether I agree with hunting with hounds or not. What I have stated are simple facts.
The only opinion expressed is whether people will continue to 'hunt' foxes - I believe that they will, by some means or another within the law, unless foxes are made a protected species.
Andy Locks Heath
says...
3:58pm Tue 28 Dec 10
Linesman wrote:You insist on starting every post on this subject with innaccurate prejudice, so it doesn't much matter what you say after that. Learn to be objective and we might have a decent discussion. They are not "toffs" and if that is your main reason for despising them it merely reflects on your own underlying motivation. I don't hunt myself but like X Old Bill I can see that a day's hard riding is an adventure and a pleasure, and the fox gives the day a purpose. The rat argument is so irrelevant as to be meaningless. Why rats? Why not mice? or ants? Or flies? Or how about just not regarding them all as mutually exclusive?
If these good country toffs are so keen on killing vermin, why don't they start by killing rats?
nebhunting
says...
4:23pm Tue 28 Dec 10
wilson castaway
says...
4:42pm Tue 28 Dec 10
freemantlegirl2
says...
5:06pm Tue 28 Dec 10
freefinker wrote:Yes shooting is far more efficient from pest control point of view, and what about urban foxes? are they going to hunt them down too?
Hunting only ever took out a tiny percentage of foxes - between 2 and 4%.
.
When hunting ceased during WW2, and during foot and mouth epidemics, there was NO population explosion. Other population control methods are much more effective – and humane.
.
The only reason I can see as to why people hunt with hounds is because they are sadists who enjoy inflicting fear and pain on other life forms.
Serves them right trusting the Tories to do what they say... good riddance to fox hunting. Tag or whatever fine... funny how all those moaning are STILL holding faux hunts although they were all insisting the hounds would have to be destroyed and it would die out, bla bla bla....
NatureWatcher
says...
5:30pm Tue 28 Dec 10
Despite all the scare-mongering in the press about the "sudden increase" in urban fox attacks since the ConDem government came into power, the vast majority of the British public don't just want the ban to stay, they want it enforced properly by the police, and the loopholes closed permanently.
R1
says...
7:04pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:Just right
Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappears
While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery.
Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
geoff51
says...
7:54pm Tue 28 Dec 10
R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British?
geoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control.
The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain.
It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft.
It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our past
023
says...
8:02pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.
R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
geoff51
says...
8:27pm Tue 28 Dec 10
023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?
geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
023
says...
8:34pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:Errrr... a wild animal being chased by a pack of baying hounds can't be described as anything but cruel.
023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
R1
says...
8:42pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:It is not my attitude that has made this country second rate, it is a thing called education, where the common man no longer believes in "knowing his place" or thinks it right and proper to doff his cap to his "betters". We have todays media to thank for many of these things, so I hope you have payed for a TV Licence because this is theft and could lead to many in the broadcasting industry falling on hard times and having to take up poaching, hanging being re-introduced for hungry peasants !!! The circle starts again.
R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
Fledermaus
says...
8:49pm Tue 28 Dec 10
The Wickham Man wrote:What utter nonsense. People who are against foxes being terrorised by hunters with dogs who rip them to shreds, don't care whether the hunters are *posh* or ordinary Joes. Not all people who go hunting are toffs, but they are all blood-thirsty, insensitive butchers. They are the terrorists.
It was just pest control, and it was a very rural pursuit. Nobody in towns ever cared much about the gamekeeper controlling squirrels with a shotgun, even though many animals died slowly and in pain. What saboteurs really hate is the idea of what they perceive as an elite class enjoying themselves, but they are too hypocritical to admit this to themselves or to anyone else. I despise animal rights terrorists, but for what they do, not for who they are. Big difference.
As for pest control: foxes are bred for the hunts, so how anyone can argue that the hunts keep fox numbers down is ridiculous. No one buys that argument, unless they are either naïve or an idiot, or both.
"The Wickham Man, Fareham says...
12:13pm Tue 28 Dec 10
It was just pest control, and it was a very rural pursuit. Nobody in towns ever cared much about the gamekeeper controlling squirrels with a shotgun, even though many animals died slowly and in pain. What saboteurs really hate is the idea of what they perceive as an elite class enjoying themselves, but they are too hypocritical to admit this to themselves or to anyone else. I despise animal rights terrorists, but for what they do, not for who they are. Big difference."
Fledermaus
says...
8:57pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51
says...
8:58pm Tue 28 Dec 10
023 wrote:Shows how little you know about Foxhunting as a method of vermin control.
geoff51 wrote:Errrr... a wild animal being chased by a pack of baying hounds can't be described as anything but cruel.023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
Have you ever witnessed the hunt or followed it on foot or are your opinions second hand?
Foxhunting is far less cruel than poison or shooting for control of fox numbers as the fox either escapes or is killed immediately.
Anyway what you describe sounds like the feral youths that populate most towns rather than animals
023
says...
9:08pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:Hohum, here we go again. The inevitable "you're ignorant" accusation that pro hunt people so often use. Firstly, you don't know me so please don't presume to know the depth of my knowledge. Secondly, I have taken the trouble to learn about hunting. I have seen hunts and I know people who hunt. I am absolutley certain that hunting with hounds is an unforgivably inhumane activity that should never be practised in a civilised country.
023 wrote:Shows how little you know about Foxhunting as a method of vermin control. Have you ever witnessed the hunt or followed it on foot or are your opinions second hand? Foxhunting is far less cruel than poison or shooting for control of fox numbers as the fox either escapes or is killed immediately. Anyway what you describe sounds like the feral youths that populate most towns rather than animalsgeoff51 wrote:Errrr... a wild animal being chased by a pack of baying hounds can't be described as anything but cruel.023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
geoff51
says...
9:25pm Tue 28 Dec 10
023 wrote:Neither should Honour Killings, Child Abuse,etc and the like but we allow that and while you are worrying about animals, people are suffering, so why not spend some of your energy in preventing humans from cruelty before you worry about saving vermin.
geoff51 wrote:Hohum, here we go again. The inevitable "you're ignorant" accusation that pro hunt people so often use. Firstly, you don't know me so please don't presume to know the depth of my knowledge. Secondly, I have taken the trouble to learn about hunting. I have seen hunts and I know people who hunt. I am absolutley certain that hunting with hounds is an unforgivably inhumane activity that should never be practised in a civilised country.023 wrote:Shows how little you know about Foxhunting as a method of vermin control. Have you ever witnessed the hunt or followed it on foot or are your opinions second hand? Foxhunting is far less cruel than poison or shooting for control of fox numbers as the fox either escapes or is killed immediately. Anyway what you describe sounds like the feral youths that populate most towns rather than animalsgeoff51 wrote:Errrr... a wild animal being chased by a pack of baying hounds can't be described as anything but cruel.023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
I have hunted in the past and speak fron first hand experience when i say that there is very little cruelty in foxhunting.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
9:36pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:OK We will dress you in a fox skin suit, let you have a bit of a start and then let the hounds chase you, then you might find the proof that you are looking for, assuming that you survive.
023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
Tally ho! yoiks.
023
says...
9:40pm Tue 28 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:For the record (and you may want to print this out and stick it to your fridge for future reference) it is possible to be against more than one thing. For example, I am against fox hunting and I'm against child abuse. Do you see how it works?
023 wrote:Neither should Honour Killings, Child Abuse,etc and the like but we allow that and while you are worrying about animals, people are suffering, so why not spend some of your energy in preventing humans from cruelty before you worry about saving vermin. I have hunted in the past and speak fron first hand experience when i say that there is very little cruelty in foxhunting.geoff51 wrote:Hohum, here we go again. The inevitable "you're ignorant" accusation that pro hunt people so often use. Firstly, you don't know me so please don't presume to know the depth of my knowledge. Secondly, I have taken the trouble to learn about hunting. I have seen hunts and I know people who hunt. I am absolutley certain that hunting with hounds is an unforgivably inhumane activity that should never be practised in a civilised country.023 wrote:Shows how little you know about Foxhunting as a method of vermin control. Have you ever witnessed the hunt or followed it on foot or are your opinions second hand? Foxhunting is far less cruel than poison or shooting for control of fox numbers as the fox either escapes or is killed immediately. Anyway what you describe sounds like the feral youths that populate most towns rather than animalsgeoff51 wrote:Errrr... a wild animal being chased by a pack of baying hounds can't be described as anything but cruel.023 wrote:What is your proof that Foxhunting is cruel?geoff51 wrote:I am prouder to live in a country that doesn't tolerate animal cruelty than one that does. Long may it be banned.R1 wrote:Are you ashamed to be British? Do not compare stupid things that you mentioned with a tried and tested method of vermin control. The things that you bring up were banned for the reason that they were cruel and unneccesary in the 19th century when you could be hanged or flogged for theft, We ran out of bears to bait, but unfortuately dog fighting and slavery still exist in some cultures in Britain. It is your sort of apologistic attitude that has allowed this country to become a second rate country full of crime and where you can live your whole adult life without working, but be punished more harshly for no TV licence that you can for theft. It is time we instilled a sense of pride in this country for our history and traditions in our schools and stop being ashamed of our pastgeoff51 wrote: Why is it that so many people wish to destroy our heritage and traditions? Between the Hunting ban people, the Health and Safety people, the dont upset the other religious group people, We are slowly destroying everything that put the great in Great Britain. Be proud of your country, your traditions, your lifestyle, anything that makes us British, before it disappearsJust right While we're at it lets bring back, Bear Baiting, Child Labour, **** Fighting, Dog Fighting, Flogging, Public Hangings and don't forget the ever popular Slavery. Remember what really put the Great in Britian.
I notice that you are moving closer to my position in that you are saying there is "very little cruelty" in hunting, i.e. not that it isn't cruel, just "not very". Keep going, you may even back the ban before the night is over. ;-)
Judi Hewitt
says...
10:46pm Tue 28 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt
says...
10:47pm Tue 28 Dec 10
downfader
says...
12:40am Wed 29 Dec 10
.
I take it a Hunt has to have permission from a land owner to chase a fox over said property, too? What happens if they dont have permission for access? How do they control the hounds in that situation..?
023
says...
12:59am Wed 29 Dec 10
downfader wrote:Sadly there are numerous accounts of out of control hounds killing domestic pets or hounds being killed roads and railways. If you have the stomach for it, search Youtube.
Just remembered something. Not sure if it is accurate, but a farmer on Countryfile a while back suggested that as the foxes were killed the number of rabbits and rats went up on his land. . I take it a Hunt has to have permission from a land owner to chase a fox over said property, too? What happens if they dont have permission for access? How do they control the hounds in that situation..?
ConDemner
says...
1:56am Wed 29 Dec 10
I don't think we do, actually. Of course, they happen. So do theft, murder and rape but they're all against the law.
Are we getting nearer to your real agenda?
babz
says...
7:31am Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath
says...
7:43am Wed 29 Dec 10
Nature is both cruel and terrible, and the only lucky foxes are those killed outright by their biggest threat - the motor vehicle. Nothing dies of natural causes in the wild. Town dwellers isolated from rural reality always forget that. Extreme language and unjustified accusation exposes a disturbed person. When someone equates horseriders with serial killers you get a chilling insight into the festering hate filled interior of their mind and nothing much else.
X Old Bill
says...
10:26am Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:If I am to be pushed slightly off the fence then I have to say that I fully agree with you Andy, it is a subject which produces unnecessarily high degrees of extreme intolerance on both sides;
I don't hunt by I can see both hatred and stupidity combined in the posts of people like Fledermaus. And when somebody from Rhyl appears on a local paper's website there is clearly "Monitoring" occurring which is sinister to put it mildly.
Nature is both cruel and terrible, and the only lucky foxes are those killed outright by their biggest threat - the motor vehicle. Nothing dies of natural causes in the wild. Town dwellers isolated from rural reality always forget that. Extreme language and unjustified accusation exposes a disturbed person. When someone equates horseriders with serial killers you get a chilling insight into the festering hate filled interior of their mind and nothing much else.
Also your previous post - There were many followers who didn't even know whether there had been a 'kill' or not, they were there for a good day's riding across the countryside (count me in that number if you will).
LoftyLady
says...
11:27am Wed 29 Dec 10
Foxes are mammals, they have backbones and a nervous system, with both sensory and motor nerves and as such will feel pain. It is also a nervous system that induces the fight/flight response which makes the hunts think they are fair game. Incidentally there have been post mortems done on foxes which PROVE they have not been killed by a single nip to the back of the neck. http://www.guardian.
co.uk/uk/2000/jun/11
/hunting.ruralaffair
s and incidentally there has also been research done that links animal cruelty and human violence (just google it - oxford university did some amongat others) plus hunts don't just take out the weak ones, where is the "sport" in that. Setting one animal against another is not natural, if that was the case why don't past controllers take large numbers of cats out with them to "control" rats and mice. All you that love this murder so much would see the public feeling if there was a referendum and you know it. In fact there would be a greater turnout for that than a general election so maybe they could combine such a vote when they ask us to vote on a new system. (Incidentally, yes I do know what I am talking about - I was born and bred in the country and have lost a pet to errant hounds and had a lawn churned up by uncontrolled horses)
Andy Locks Heath
says...
12:52pm Wed 29 Dec 10
bigmonkeyman
says...
1:01pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt
says...
2:31pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Mind you, I would like to see those hunt supporting morons that think hunt monitors are sinister (what a joke) being chased by lions - now that really would be entertainment! So if I'm being honest, I really do HATE animal abusers.
My website walesagainstanimalcr
uelty has the true facts about killing with dogs for anyone with the guts and decency to check it out.
Oh and by the way, the ban is here to stay GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!
LoftyLady
says...
2:43pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:The hunt is NOT natural - the hounds are whipped up into a frenzy to chase and kill foxes by ripping them apart whilst still alive. I know quite a lot as it happens my brother in law is a gamekeeper and has been told not to shoot foxes (the most humane way in WELL TRAINED hands) but to leave them for the hunts - despite it being illegal to hunt with hounds. As far as I know foxes are not killed for food, Iheve never seen it on the menu anywhere. BRING ON A REFERENDUM - lets keep the ban and get the Police to read through the actual law and enforce it, they are all too easily swayed by the money of the CA at the moment to harrass and beat up the hunt monitors who are doing their job for them... But then, that's what the unelected Prime Minister wants people to do - volunteer!
Well Loftlady, how do most foxes die? You cannot know much about the life of wild animals when you start from the premise that the only thing they have to worry about in their lives is a hunt. To a fox a hunt is just one more hazard in the hazardous business of daily survival. Almost every wild animal experiences adrenal charged flight several times every day of its life. It is natural, and while very unpleasant is normal. Only humans and the animals they domesticate can avoid a daily diet of fear and terror - something urban dwellers brought up on a diet of Disneyfied anthropomorphism still fail to appreciate. Actrually your point about rodent controllers not using other predators illustrates the point that the hunt is about the enjoyment and thrill of the adventure, not the expectation of witnessing death. Anyone wanting to witness violence can do so with far better likelihood of success than following a hunt, in which a rider is unlikely to see anything at all.
Judi Hewitt
says...
3:15pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Certainly not deserving of the cruelty inflicted upon them by mindless thugs.
Here in North Wales most footpacks do not even shoot foxes, they chase them to ground then dig them out and throw them alive to the hounds as a reward. I found a young vixen that had been obviously trapped, then tied to a post to train young hounds. Her face showed great suffering before she died. She had been disembowelled and her right had been torn off. Basically she'd had her intestines eaten while she was still alive - massive blood loss was proof of this. Anyone who thinks this does not happen are either ignorant or rotten to the core.
Foxes are territorial and like I said before do not need to be controlled - they come into season for about three to six days once a year, and out of an entire fox family only one vixen will mate with the resident dog fox. In really hard times these animals have been known to re-absorb their own fetus's.
Plus ask yourselves this? If foxes are such a pest then why have hunts including those here in North Wales had to resort to using artificial earths to encourage foxes to breed?
Andy Locks Heath
says...
3:39pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt wrote:I have never read so much anthropomorphicised garbage in all my life. "Fantastic"? What kind of a revealing word is that to use in this context? An animal is an animal except in the distorted imagination of an individual with low self esteem and low self image seeking to justify hatred of fellow humans by balancing all her hatred and resentment with a bizarre and pointless displacement "love" for certain animals and imagining all that doe eyed "innocence". That's a giveaway of your thought processes. Animals are neither good nor bad, guilty nor innocent so try growing up a bit - your partisan descriptions are as silly as imagining a fox dismembering a mother mallard alive on her nest in front of her brood of chicks, condemning each of them to a frightening death every bit as gruesome as the foxes. Animals die horrible deaths. A death by hounds is a lot quicker than many foxes are condemned to. Try understanding the process of survival and stop going gooey over the long tails It is irrelevant Unlike you I don't imagine nature or animals as posessing this weird notion of happy innocence. You are fooling nobody Judi. Deal with all your hatred of fellow humans and you might get your "love" into better proportion. I don't even hunt. The only reason I'm on here is because of the army of peculiars such as yourself trying to displace the paucity of their own self esteem onto a group who quite honestly are a lot less bloodthirsty than a lot of other sections of society Yes, including so called animal lovers.
I have studied foxes for two decades and found them to be fantastic animals.
Certainly not deserving of the cruelty inflicted upon them by mindless thugs.
Here in North Wales most footpacks do not even shoot foxes, they chase them to ground then dig them out and throw them alive to the hounds as a reward. I found a young vixen that had been obviously trapped, then tied to a post to train young hounds. Her face showed great suffering before she died. She had been disembowelled and her right had been torn off. Basically she'd had her intestines eaten while she was still alive - massive blood loss was proof of this. Anyone who thinks this does not happen are either ignorant or rotten to the core.
Foxes are territorial and like I said before do not need to be controlled - they come into season for about three to six days once a year, and out of an entire fox family only one vixen will mate with the resident dog fox. In really hard times these animals have been known to re-absorb their own fetus's.
Plus ask yourselves this? If foxes are such a pest then why have hunts including those here in North Wales had to resort to using artificial earths to encourage foxes to breed?
023
says...
4:40pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:Wow. What a diatribe Andy. Don't you have a massive vocabulary! To summarise your point, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you believe anyone who has a respect for wildlife has mental health issues e.g. "distorted imagination", "low self esteem", etc.
Judi Hewitt wrote: I have studied foxes for two decades and found them to be fantastic animals. Certainly not deserving of the cruelty inflicted upon them by mindless thugs. Here in North Wales most footpacks do not even shoot foxes, they chase them to ground then dig them out and throw them alive to the hounds as a reward. I found a young vixen that had been obviously trapped, then tied to a post to train young hounds. Her face showed great suffering before she died. She had been disembowelled and her right had been torn off. Basically she'd had her intestines eaten while she was still alive - massive blood loss was proof of this. Anyone who thinks this does not happen are either ignorant or rotten to the core. Foxes are territorial and like I said before do not need to be controlled - they come into season for about three to six days once a year, and out of an entire fox family only one vixen will mate with the resident dog fox. In really hard times these animals have been known to re-absorb their own fetus's. Plus ask yourselves this? If foxes are such a pest then why have hunts including those here in North Wales had to resort to using artificial earths to encourage foxes to breed?I have never read so much anthropomorphicised garbage in all my life. "Fantastic"? What kind of a revealing word is that to use in this context? An animal is an animal except in the distorted imagination of an individual with low self esteem and low self image seeking to justify hatred of fellow humans by balancing all her hatred and resentment with a bizarre and pointless displacement "love" for certain animals and imagining all that doe eyed "innocence". That's a giveaway of your thought processes. Animals are neither good nor bad, guilty nor innocent so try growing up a bit - your partisan descriptions are as silly as imagining a fox dismembering a mother mallard alive on her nest in front of her brood of chicks, condemning each of them to a frightening death every bit as gruesome as the foxes. Animals die horrible deaths. A death by hounds is a lot quicker than many foxes are condemned to. Try understanding the process of survival and stop going gooey over the long tails It is irrelevant Unlike you I don't imagine nature or animals as posessing this weird notion of happy innocence. You are fooling nobody Judi. Deal with all your hatred of fellow humans and you might get your "love" into better proportion. I don't even hunt. The only reason I'm on here is because of the army of peculiars such as yourself trying to displace the paucity of their own self esteem onto a group who quite honestly are a lot less bloodthirsty than a lot of other sections of society Yes, including so called animal lovers.
As you seem to be expert in the mental health of people I assume you have never met, perhaps you could psychoanalyse the people who take pleasure in watching a pack of hounds dismember a fox.
I eagerly await your response.
Andy Locks Heath
says...
6:36pm Wed 29 Dec 10
023
says...
6:58pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:OK. Let me start with where I agree with you. There are people who rank an animals worthiness (for want of a better word) by how furry they are. I agree this is generally pretty unhelpful.
Well O23, you've hit the nail on the head of the issue dividing the two camps but you seem to have misunderstood my post. Although I have known several people who hunted I have never met anyone who took pleasure in watching a fox dismembered so I can't help you. That is like saying a gamekeeper loves watching dying birds spiral out of the sky for pure spite, or a fisherman loves watching the drowning fish gasping mouth and gills for its very life while having his picture taken holding it by the hook still piercing its mouth- surely a the actions of a sadistic madman, eh? How about the thousands of kids feeding live cockroaches and mice to their pet tarantulas and snakes? I don't think so (though I have my doubts about the last one). What I despise is the inconsistency and hypocrisy of what is actually class hatred dressed up as concern. I also despair of the strange contorted beliefs of those whose notion of animal welfare is to mentally grade them into "good" and "bad" animals often on the basis of the furrinesss of their tails or the size of their eyes. Why is it apparently ok to feed live cockroaches to tarantulas? Because cockroaches are not "furry and lovable" I suppose. My view is that almost all wild animals are fated to die slow painful often horrible deaths unless accident or predation spares them. That is nature, and developing a fanatical loathing of people who hunt is way beyond a normal response - it is displacement behaviour.
Where I can't agree with you is your assumption that the people on here fall into the same category. I certainly don't. I'm a supporter of Buglife. I find the animal abuse for entertainment on I'm a Celebrity... offensive.
Perhaps I was being presumtious when I asked about the pleasure taken by huntsmen from seeing a fox being dismembered. Maybe they don't like to watch. They certainly do take pleasure in the death of foxes. It also undeniably true that a long chase is preferred, thereby subjecting the fox to a prolonged period of terror.
With regard to being fated to a slow
and painful deaths, surely it is humans who endure the longest deaths, albeit with the benefit of painkillers. Would you have us hunted on the offchance we may live a bit too long?
Judi Hewitt
says...
7:17pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Plus if pro-hunt scum don't enjoy the kill, then why do they pay a bloody fortune to take part in a ritual that tortures an animal to death?
And what about the hounds, eh? They are victims too! I have jpegs of the Cheshire hunt shooting hounds and immediately incinerating them. Hound Pups that show no eagerness to kill are also got rid of! Nice, eh?
For God's sake get a conscience? Or were you born with a twisted gene that means you cannot feel anything (like phychopaths) for animals abused by mankind or should I say deliberately set on and torn apart for FUN by EVIL mindless monsters.
You sound like a brainless nerd Locks Heath - probably bullied in school too! Poor you!!!
D'Arcy Sarto
says...
7:51pm Wed 29 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:"I also despair of the strange contorted beliefs of those whose notion of animal welfare is to mentally grade them into "good" and "bad" animals often on the basis of the furrinesss of their tails or the size of their eyes."
Well O23, you've hit the nail on the head of the issue dividing the two camps but you seem to have misunderstood my post. Although I have known several people who hunted I have never met anyone who took pleasure in watching a fox dismembered so I can't help you. That is like saying a gamekeeper loves watching dying birds spiral out of the sky for pure spite, or a fisherman loves watching the drowning fish gasping mouth and gills for its very life while having his picture taken holding it by the hook still piercing its mouth- surely a the actions of a sadistic madman, eh? How about the thousands of kids feeding live cockroaches and mice to their pet tarantulas and snakes? I don't think so (though I have my doubts about the last one). What I despise is the inconsistency and hypocrisy of what is actually class hatred dressed up as concern. I also despair of the strange contorted beliefs of those whose notion of animal welfare is to mentally grade them into "good" and "bad" animals often on the basis of the furrinesss of their tails or the size of their eyes. Why is it apparently ok to feed live cockroaches to tarantulas? Because cockroaches are not "furry and lovable" I suppose. My view is that almost all wild animals are fated to die slow painful often horrible deaths unless accident or predation spares them. That is nature, and developing a fanatical loathing of people who hunt is way beyond a normal response - it is displacement behaviour.
Andy why is it then that you feel that it is acceptable for other animals to be killed for petfood to keep your dog alive? What makes your dog so special?
Also, i assume that you are not vegan so why is it that you think that other animals should die to feed you but dogs are somehow elevated to some 'human equal' type position and exempt from this? I know they eat canine abroad but would you and if not why not? Double standards i reckon!
Every pro-hunting person that i have met without fail has had at least one dog and treats it like a child..but somehow has a different view of another dog breed...the fox.
More double standards!
Andy Locks Heath
says...
8:39am Thu 30 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt
says...
10:22am Thu 30 Dec 10
Now you answer my question you numbskull, "Do you think it's alright for an animal to be chased until it's completely lathered and frothing at the mouth and then ripped apart? And if this fox escapes down an earth, do you think it's okay for a terrier-man to dig out the terrified animal out and put it in a sack to be chased again? Because numbskull, this is a regular occurance in hunting. A terrified fox that has **** and **** itself in fear is going to very easy to track for even the most useless hounds.
If you still believe the idiotic things you've been saying in defence of hunting after hearing the bare and grizzly facts about hunting and if you've seen a fox screaming as it's being ripped apart, then you are a monster and a stain on this planet. Now go back to hell where you belong, I have hunt monitoring to do!!!!!!!!!
Judi Hewitt
says...
10:28am Thu 30 Dec 10
uelty, will furnish any interested party with all the info they need to know on the subject of hunting and other animal man-made atrocities. I have better things to do with my time than waste it on **** like the cold hearted weirdo on this site.
Judi Hewitt
says...
10:39am Thu 30 Dec 10
Fur Q
says...
11:37am Thu 30 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt wrote:Aw, dont go, you seem fun !
Sorry, just one more answer for the Mr Ignorant. Actually I have seen artificial earths in woods at the back of Colwyn Bay. I also saw the large carcass of ewe left out side one of them. How dare you accuse me of making up untruths - we leave that to hunters. You obviously never saw the article just before the ban in the national papers when Simon Hart's email to hunt masters across the UK was intercepted and leaked to the press. The C/A responded by stating that they were doing it for conservation. In other words replacing foxes that they were killing for fun. Hey, now you've actually learn't something. Goodbye!
X Old Bill
says...
12:24pm Thu 30 Dec 10
This is a LOCAL newspaper in Hampshire reporting on a LOCAL pack of foxhounds in the New Forest:-
What on earth has that got to do with someone in Rhyl?
Why does that person use the present tense when talking about traditional fox hunting?
Are there any artificial fox earths anywhere in Hampshire or Dorset? (Badger setts maybe, in the interests of conservation, but not fox earths)
Has this person ever seen a Terrier-man take a fox alive from an urban covert? (and release it, still alive, in an appropriate location where it will find less need for human interaction - They are not all in it for the kill!)
The subject of Hunting mammals with hounds is spoken of as something British - No so, well not any more anyway. If anyone really enjoys their hunting, as opposed to a pleasant day hacking across country, then they should consider going to France, Germany or Denmark - 'Backward' Countries where they still carry on with their old ways.
Andy Locks Heath
says...
12:31pm Thu 30 Dec 10
An isn't it peculiar that although claiming to understand "fantastic" foxes she accepts blindly the notion that these wild animals need to have earths dug for them and that a wild fox will happily use an artifical earth despite it reeking of the scent of its most feared predator? (man).
The truth is Judi you know nothing about foxes - instead you have built up a kind of child-substitute love for your own unrealistic concept of "fabulous foxes" that has grown in direct proportion to hatred of your own species. If there was no persecution of foxes you'd have to invent it in order to justify your feelings. By the way - shall we tell everyone the full story of the tiny incident you tried to blow up into something it wasn't? The huntsman of the Beaufort Hunt hand reared a litter of orphaned fox cubs whose mother had been run over using an earth he created for them. Had he not done this they would have starved. There is absolutely no evidence for anything else you infer. That comes from your own embittered imagination. Apparently you would have preferred the cubs to die. What a strange and deluded woman you are - now nobody can trust anything on your website.
Mental Micky
says...
12:38pm Thu 30 Dec 10
- Well I never saw that one coming. Hope your house is well ventilated.
Fur Q
says...
12:52pm Thu 30 Dec 10
I didnt watch it though, that would be as painful as some her contributions today.
The Wickham Man
says...
1:28pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Snarfpup
says...
4:24pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Bill Bailey
023
says...
4:26pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath
says...
4:59pm Thu 30 Dec 10
023 wrote:No, I haven't. But having exposed her bizarre and irrational belief system which includes cruelty to her own dog there is not much else for me to say on the matter. I have never hunted so I don't so much defend foxhunting as the right of people to participate in hunts and attack the ridiculous and bigotted prejudice against it. I do not accept the silly sentimental nonsense that some people use in "loving" certain animal species. People such as Judi are ascribing feelings and emotions to animals that are completely innapropriate. A fox does not relish or celebrate its "freedom" -there is no such concept in the animal brain. And a right has to be claimed. I have yet to see the mandate animals have given to those who claim to represent them. I have heard some reasonable arguments against hunting backed by sound principle, but some of the immature and hate filled vitriol against it verges on hysteria and the perpetrators need to be shown up for what they are.
I take it you defenders of foxhunting have run out of arguments. Instead you've decided to resort to personal attacks on Judi. Says it all really.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Fur Q
says...
5:07pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:mine was going to be a personal attack on her singing, which if you check out youtube will agree is f-ing awful.
023 wrote: I take it you defenders of foxhunting have run out of arguments. Instead you've decided to resort to personal attacks on Judi. Says it all really.No, I haven't. But having exposed her bizarre and irrational belief system which includes cruelty to her own dog there is not much else for me to say on the matter. I have never hunted so I don't so much defend foxhunting as the right of people to participate in hunts and attack the ridiculous and bigotted prejudice against it. I do not accept the silly sentimental nonsense that some people use in "loving" certain animal species. People such as Judi are ascribing feelings and emotions to animals that are completely innapropriate. A fox does not relish or celebrate its "freedom" -there is no such concept in the animal brain. And a right has to be claimed. I have yet to see the mandate animals have given to those who claim to represent them. I have heard some reasonable arguments against hunting backed by sound principle, but some of the immature and hate filled vitriol against it verges on hysteria and the perpetrators need to be shown up for what they are. Sorry to disappoint you.
But she has wisely cleared off back to her hole.
i couldnt give a hoot about foxes, just enjoy a good internet based tear up
Next please.
023
says...
5:27pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Andy Locks Heath wrote:Andy, if you want to see some "hate filled vitriol..." that "...verges on hysteria..." you should read some of your own posts on here!
023 wrote: I take it you defenders of foxhunting have run out of arguments. Instead you've decided to resort to personal attacks on Judi. Says it all really.No, I haven't. But having exposed her bizarre and irrational belief system which includes cruelty to her own dog there is not much else for me to say on the matter. I have never hunted so I don't so much defend foxhunting as the right of people to participate in hunts and attack the ridiculous and bigotted prejudice against it. I do not accept the silly sentimental nonsense that some people use in "loving" certain animal species. People such as Judi are ascribing feelings and emotions to animals that are completely innapropriate. A fox does not relish or celebrate its "freedom" -there is no such concept in the animal brain. And a right has to be claimed. I have yet to see the mandate animals have given to those who claim to represent them. I have heard some reasonable arguments against hunting backed by sound principle, but some of the immature and hate filled vitriol against it verges on hysteria and the perpetrators need to be shown up for what they are. Sorry to disappoint you.
023
says...
5:30pm Thu 30 Dec 10
"just enjoy a good internet based tear up" Fair enough :-)
geoff51
says...
7:55pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Fight it out amongst yourself children, you will never beat the nutters
023
says...
8:56pm Thu 30 Dec 10
Secondly, foxes are not "wanton killers", they are apex predators in an ecological web.
Finally, I think it a little unfair of you to refer to us as children, particularly as you seem to be the one going off in a sulk!
geoff51
says...
9:28pm Thu 30 Dec 10
023 wrote:Only local nutters please we have no need of nutters from other areas
Firstly, the article was about a delay in a potential repeal of the the Hunting Act so anti hunt people are entitled to post. The fact that we may be passionate does not make us "nutters". Secondly, foxes are not "wanton killers", they are apex predators in an ecological web. Finally, I think it a little unfair of you to refer to us as children, particularly as you seem to be the one going off in a sulk!
023
says...
9:51pm Thu 30 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:Locks Heath isn't that far away!
023 wrote: Firstly, the article was about a delay in a potential repeal of the the Hunting Act so anti hunt people are entitled to post. The fact that we may be passionate does not make us "nutters". Secondly, foxes are not "wanton killers", they are apex predators in an ecological web. Finally, I think it a little unfair of you to refer to us as children, particularly as you seem to be the one going off in a sulk!Only local nutters please we have no need of nutters from other areas
geoff51
says...
10:05pm Thu 30 Dec 10
023 wrote:I am talking about Welsh nutters!
geoff51 wrote:Locks Heath isn't that far away!023 wrote: Firstly, the article was about a delay in a potential repeal of the the Hunting Act so anti hunt people are entitled to post. The fact that we may be passionate does not make us "nutters". Secondly, foxes are not "wanton killers", they are apex predators in an ecological web. Finally, I think it a little unfair of you to refer to us as children, particularly as you seem to be the one going off in a sulk!Only local nutters please we have no need of nutters from other areas
freefinker
says...
11:12pm Thu 30 Dec 10
geoff51 wrote:.. "Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here." said Edward.
023 wrote:Only local nutters please we have no need of nutters from other areas
Firstly, the article was about a delay in a potential repeal of the the Hunting Act so anti hunt people are entitled to post. The fact that we may be passionate does not make us "nutters". Secondly, foxes are not "wanton killers", they are apex predators in an ecological web. Finally, I think it a little unfair of you to refer to us as children, particularly as you seem to be the one going off in a sulk!
Andy Locks Heath
says...
8:11am Fri 31 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt
says...
12:45pm Fri 31 Dec 10
Looks like he's the one getting childish with all his stupid insults.
He claims not to hunt himself, so what on earth does he base his opinions on with regard to setting a pack of dogs after a fox and ripping it apart?
I have put more pics up on my website 'wales against animal cruelty' re fox suffering - is he saying that animals are not capable of suffering then? If so, then he is a hell of a lot more stupid than I thought.
Oh and by the way, our lovely 8yr old dog Holly, a rescued Border Collie/Lurcher Cross enjoys her veggie dinners thankyou - it's healthier for her and will hopefully give her a longer life - far better than feeding her slaughter house slop. My sisters has three quite large dogs too - all veggie, two are approaching age eighteen and still have plenty of vitality. In contrast to a friends meat eating Labrador that died aged 6yrs of a lymphatic cancer and another's lovely Springer Spanial that died of throat cancer, age three years.
This idiot really does take the biscuit though - calling someone like me cruel, when I do all that I can to speak out for abused animals against inhumane human predation.
He thinks it's right to rip an animal apart for FUN, this stupid, stone cold man. Assuming he is a man and not a silly boy who was bullied in school. Animals are easy targets for people such as him.
BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, I JUST WISH HE WOULD STOP TRYING TO MAKE OUT HE UNDERSTANDS ABOUT HUNTING, WHEN IT'S CLEAR TO ANY INTELLIGENT AND CARING PERSON READING HIS TRIPE, THAT HE KNOWS DIDDLY!!!
Artificial earths were used pre-ban, so he should stop denying their existence, it was in the national papers too!!!!!!! It's like saying the holocaust never happened - completely and utterly mad!
Leave the foxes alone, they have never done anything to hurt you.
Fur Q
says...
1:13pm Fri 31 Dec 10
Now f-off back to your little hole in Wales and die
PS, never make another record !
Judi Hewitt
says...
2:46pm Fri 31 Dec 10
I'll be putting up your comments on my walesagainstanimalcr
uelty website.
X Old Bill
says...
2:51pm Fri 31 Dec 10
Following that particular logic: If one feeds meat to a dog then it will die early of cancer. I cannot say that I have had that problem with meat fed dogs myself, but this person is obviously an expert on nutrition for carnivores.
Whilst I can accept that a dog is not an obligate carnivore, they are certainly not natural vegetarians.
It then follows that there is obviously no need for unfit hounds to be put down - They will just die early of cancer because they are fed on meat; Fallen stock when available and maybe breaking up the odd lawfully shot fox carcass.
And when it comes to photographs of past hunts, I have taken quite a few myself. Some will never get into the public domain because, while quite innocent, they could be taken totally out of context and location by certain people. Something which I have seen happen all too frequently.
Fur Q
says...
2:54pm Fri 31 Dec 10
Judi Hewitt wrote:well, im sure that will get loads of hits
Nice people you support, eh, Locks Heath? Now people can see the real pro-hunt at work, Nasty and cruel!! I'll be putting up your comments on my walesagainstanimalcr uelty website.
Judi Hewitt
says...
3:19pm Fri 31 Dec 10
What's the point, you pro-hunt are all on the road to hell anyway.
freefinker
says...
6:21pm Fri 31 Dec 10
I’m against hunting, full stop.
It’s sadistic, cruel and unnecessary.
And I’m against all the other cruelty we unnecessarily inflict on animals (human and non-human).
But even I have some issues with you and find many (but by no means all) of Andy's points quite valid.
So, I ask you, what would you rather be?
a) a fox, that has a fairly natural life but a 2 to 4% chance of meeting a horrendous death at the hands of the hounds or terriermen?
or.
b) a circus elephant, laboratory primate, a factory farmed animal, etc?
.
Surely, the latter is where the greatest suffering is – it’s almost non-stop.
The number of factory farmed animals (600 million, at least, in the UK alone) far, far exceeds the total UK fox population, let alone the tiny minority killed by the hunt.
This is where your maximum efforts should be applied.
Seems to me you’re looking at the easy targets rather than getting stuck into the very difficult job that needs your full time attention.
Amusedonlooker
says...
12:40am Sat 1 Jan 11
Human beings like all of us aren't aware that it's the New Year, or aren't sure that they're going to make it to the next year.
But of course, the more important issue is whether or not 2-4% of the UK's fox population should be hunted.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Saves energy ;)
Indigo899
says...
12:42pm Sat 1 Jan 11
Andy Locks Heath
says...
12:47pm Sat 1 Jan 11
Andy Locks Heath
says...
1:11pm Sat 1 Jan 11
So what's next for Judi now the ban is in place for at least another year and her justification has gone - educate carrion crows in Wales to become vegan and stop pecking out the eyes of newborn lambs - or maybe train a new breed of "nice foxes" that don't devour birds and their young alive and switch to nuts and berries instead? No. It is to just keep on and on and on pursuing foxless hunts as though nothing has happened. THat is the ultimate truth that condemns the hidden motive behind her hatred and she hasn;t got the guts to admit to herself or anyone else that her life has no other purpose.
Mental Micky
says...
1:13pm Sat 1 Jan 11
X Old Bill
says...
2:43pm Sat 1 Jan 11
The only actual comment quoted is the slightly ill-advised one from Fur-Q at 1:13 on Friday.
Selective, as one would expect from these people.
It is followed by various other items, including incitement to commit Criminal Damage - There's got to be an offence or two there somewhere...
The Wickham Man
says...
7:23am Mon 3 Jan 11
dinglefoot says...
12:01pm Tue 28 Dec 10