130 Southampton teens hit by GCSE marking fiasco (From Daily Echo)

Why is it a fiasco, if alll children are marked equally? For years the media and commentators criticised exam marking for "dumbing down" and now it has been made more rigorous the same people are complaining, If all results are marked down equally then universtity grade minima will come down accordingly, (and they have). Universities are not going to be half empty because of this. The previous situation was getting pointless because if everyone gets an A for everything the examination process serves no purpose.
And yes I have children and yes one of my children has just completed her A levels so yes I am witnessing this first hand.

John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

If all children were marked equally then I would agree, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Students sitting GCSEs in January were marked under the old scheme, so were marked more generously than students sitting the exams in June. As both sets of students are from the same year group, they are competing for the same college places etc., so the June group have been clearly disadvantaged.

Moving the goalposts in itself is not the problem, but moving them half way through a year so only half a year group is affected seems to me to be obviously unfair.

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

How much involvement do people really believe any particular government has in the nitty-gritty of education? You don't really believe that the Cabinet sits down on their own and writes out every last policy and procedure, do you? There's an entire civil service in place that's responsible for most of these decisions, and those thousands of people don't change when there's a general election.

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

So unfair, lets not forget that coursework that is done throughout the year goes towards the grade not just the final exam itself, so the pupils would not of had any time to re admit thier coursework.

Georgem wrote:
How much involvement do people really believe any particular government has in the nitty-gritty of education? You don't really believe that the Cabinet sits down on their own and writes out every last policy and procedure, do you? There's an entire civil service in place that's responsible for most of these decisions, and those thousands of people don't change when there's a general election.

.. oh, do stop being reasonable, please.

This is a classic Red v Blue playground fight.

Despite being virtually identical (yes, southy is right on that) they just can’t stop blaming each other for issues they actually have so little control over.

It’ll go on all day with all the usual tribal contributors having their pathetic say.

Georgem wrote:
How much involvement do people really believe any particular government has in the nitty-gritty of education? You don't really believe that the Cabinet sits down on their own and writes out every last policy and procedure, do you? There's an entire civil service in place that's responsible for most of these decisions, and those thousands of people don't change when there's a general election.

I certainly do believe that government has an extremely big influence on education, which is why there is to be an announcement today regarding a change in end of school examinations.

If government were not concerned with education, why do you think that there is a Education Secretary in the government?

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

Ping pong on tribal lines on this site is hardly surprising. I wonder if some of these people actually care about how this sudden change of goal posts without sufficient warning is going to ruin the lives of many youngsters; 130 of them from our own City.

Just because Blair and his followers misled the nation through slogans like “Education education and education” and his side kicks like John Denham supported that con, cannot be the excuse for ConDem Coalition’s failures.

Cause of this fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with last government of Virtual Tories, but sudden midstream change of direction authorised by pen pushers and Education Secretary’s failure to control them.

If Welsh government can make a stand on this important issue then why can’t useless and unfit for the purpose Tory Gove?

Yes I have criticised John Denham when he may have done something wrong. But on this one he is doing the right thing, so deserves full support.

But I do not expect that to happen on this site, because tribes of various shades of blue won’t think beyond their political affiliations.

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

And your lot were not good enough, or not interested in ' putting it right' during 13 years of Government.

Linesman wrote:

Georgem wrote:
How much involvement do people really believe any particular government has in the nitty-gritty of education? You don't really believe that the Cabinet sits down on their own and writes out every last policy and procedure, do you? There's an entire civil service in place that's responsible for most of these decisions, and those thousands of people don't change when there's a general election.

I certainly do believe that government has an extremely big influence on education, which is why there is to be an announcement today regarding a change in end of school examinations.

If government were not concerned with education, why do you think that there is a Education Secretary in the government?

Re-read my post.

Every government since, and including, Wilson's has tried to achieve a fairness for children across the board. Unfortunately what has resulted is the totally unfair situation where the children of the rich can get an education denied to even clever kids off the estates. The fairest system was that introduced by the Atlee government after the war where kids were measured by their academic ability as to what secondary school they went to, not as it is now by the size of Daddies bank balance. As far as the current fiasco is concerned it's obvious Gowe is a dunce and should be stood in the corner sucking his thumb.

hulla baloo wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

And your lot were not good enough, or not interested in ' putting it right' during 13 years of Government.

The thing is hulla baloo, The Torys have had longer much longer than Labour have, what 13 years against 18 years, the trouble is that the Torys have had longer in office than they have out of office, Labour was at lease getting it right that was untill 1979, after then Labour joined the Tory rank and file.

Education thinking was heavily influenced by the Left Wing from the 60s out of Liverpool University. It was enshrined by the Left Wing Education Unions.
>
Result? This blind drive for equality in education which is impossible to deliver without ruining the overall education standards of this country - hence why we are so far down the world education leagues as to be almost off the Richter scale!

George4th wrote:
Education thinking was heavily influenced by the Left Wing from the 60s out of Liverpool University. It was enshrined by the Left Wing Education Unions.
>
Result? This blind drive for equality in education which is impossible to deliver without ruining the overall education standards of this country - hence why we are so far down the world education leagues as to be almost off the Richter scale!

Education Unions have never had a say in how or what is taught in schools, Big Private Business have had the say, and still do, they tell the government what they need and want and they get.
Its all ways been the same.

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

My son is one of these, albeit in the NFDC rather than the City. Had he been marked in Jan he would have gained a C in English, he gained a D, failing by exactly the 10 marks stated as the change in marking criteria. We found however that the colleges have adopted a realistic approach to the situation, based on his other good results, and as he had B's and C's in all other subjects, they have allowed him to do the A Levels he wanted to do, with a retake of English built into his timetable.
To fail in school has taught him that he must try harder, and that all is not always handed on a plate..... now if only I can get him to try harder with his chores.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

When and how please, as an aspiring Councillor you will be asked these things and to back up your claims if you actually manage to get anywhere so see it as practise perhaps.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education, Labour 1964 - '"If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every last grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education, Labour 1964 - '"If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every last grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."

As I said, it started in the 60s...............
>
The last Labour government, knowing that education needed improving, managed to make it a whole lot worse!! It was dumbed down so much that you could get a PhD in Southy's comments on the Daily Echo website!

George4th wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education, Labour 1964 - '"If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every last grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."

As I said, it started in the 60s...............
>
The last Labour government, knowing that education needed improving, managed to make it a whole lot worse!! It was dumbed down so much that you could get a PhD in Southy's comments on the Daily Echo website!

And *puff*, Peter vanishes...

Anybody would think that once again, according to some Tory posters, that the entire educational system was destroyed by Labour.
.
Well thats what they would like you to think ...... This is because it is easier to blame someone else rather than take any responsibility themselves.
.
However ... just a couple of facts.......
....when Labour took over 1997 ........ One in seven 21 year olds had trouble reading, and one in five had problems with basic numeracy.
.
42% of 11 year olds were below the expected standard in maths, and half below the expected level in English
.
The Tories did NOTHING regarding education for the masses but segregated out the pupils whose Daddy had the big cheque book leading to a two tier society in education.
.
Now you have an education minister who like many in the cabinet are either inept or way out of their depth

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Anybody would think that once again, according to some Tory posters, that the entire educational system was destroyed by Labour.
.
Well thats what they would like you to think ...... This is because it is easier to blame someone else rather than take any responsibility themselves.
.
However ... just a couple of facts.......
....when Labour took over 1997 ........ One in seven 21 year olds had trouble reading, and one in five had problems with basic numeracy.
.
42% of 11 year olds were below the expected standard in maths, and half below the expected level in English
.
The Tories did NOTHING regarding education for the masses but segregated out the pupils whose Daddy had the big cheque book leading to a two tier society in education.
.
Now you have an education minister who like many in the cabinet are either inept or way out of their depth

... like you just did..?

the way the exams are set up these days no one should get lower than a 'b' grade, with course work being returned by the teacher with suggestions on how to improve it etc until they get it right. They desreve a D

Shoong wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Anybody would think that once again, according to some Tory posters, that the entire educational system was destroyed by Labour.
.
Well thats what they would like you to think ...... This is because it is easier to blame someone else rather than take any responsibility themselves.
.
However ... just a couple of facts.......
....when Labour took over 1997 ........ One in seven 21 year olds had trouble reading, and one in five had problems with basic numeracy.
.
42% of 11 year olds were below the expected standard in maths, and half below the expected level in English
.
The Tories did NOTHING regarding education for the masses but segregated out the pupils whose Daddy had the big cheque book leading to a two tier society in education.
.
Now you have an education minister who like many in the cabinet are either inept or way out of their depth

... like you just did..?

Great contribution again.
.
I bet you are delighted to have Southy as a "target" as your contribution would be completely zero.
.
I just hope, as a taxpayer, that we didnt waste money on a University education for you

Georgem wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Georgem wrote:
How much involvement do people really believe any particular government has in the nitty-gritty of education? You don't really believe that the Cabinet sits down on their own and writes out every last policy and procedure, do you? There's an entire civil service in place that's responsible for most of these decisions, and those thousands of people don't change when there's a general election.

I certainly do believe that government has an extremely big influence on education, which is why there is to be an announcement today regarding a change in end of school examinations.

If government were not concerned with education, why do you think that there is a Education Secretary in the government?

Re-read my post.

I have.

The government sets the ball rolling. It matters not whether that ball is rolling in the right direction or not, the Civil Servants are tasked with the job of attempting to put it into practice.

As it happens, the chages proposed by the Education Secretary are not going to be put into practice until After the next election. Labour have said that, if they are elected, they will not implement it.

So, if there is a change of government, I wonder how much money will have been spent on something that will not come into being.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
>
Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education, Labour 1964 - '"If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every last grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."

Why did he say this?

Because he considered it wrong that a person's future education should be decided by the 11+ exam. He was realistic enough to realise that people develop at a different pace.

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Linesman wrote:

George4th wrote:
John Denham, he of the Labour party who got elected on the back of their mantra "Education, Education, Education" so vociferously chanted by their Billy Liar leader!
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Labour's contribution (and that of the Left Wing influenced Education elite) has been to see us nose dive so far down the world education league tables that we are almost classed as illiterate!!

It may have escaped your notice, but this education fiasco has happened under a Tory-led Government that has had TWO YEARS to screw up the educational system.

Both of you are not directing your blame game in the right direction, civil servants should be your targets.

p.s. Labour had 1997 to 2010 to make a hash of it so it might take more than 2 years to fix.

Civil Servants are instructed by government.

Civil Servants Advise governments on how these instructions could be carried out.

And the Torys made 18 years of hash up of the Education system.
What is needed is to go back to what the education system was pre-tory hash up and try again.

Southy you are being too simplistic while only blaming the Tories for problems with our education system.

At one time Britain probably had one of the best education systems on this planet, even under Tories, but the rot has been allowed to set in over a long period of time, under governments of various shades.

I am not an expert in education, but have been hearing about concerns of many professionals for a very long time.

Education should be top priority and not subject to the whims of bureaucrats or political games. But unfortunately rather then thinking of it as an important investment for future of the nation and our youngsters it has been commercialised and left at the mercy of market forces.

I do not object to raising exam standards, but this problem has been caused due to raising the bar unexpectedly. Many youngsters tend to prepare just enough for the grades to suit their ambitions, had they and their teachers known about this surprise they would have prepared for the situation.

My views may be biased because of similar experience I suffered from during second year in Indian university, which messed up one year of my life and probably changed direction of my life. So I have full sympathy with these youngsters.

I not the problem is both of them, just that the Torys are mainly at fault and who started this massive mess up in the Education system

Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education, Labour 1964 - '"If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every last grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."

Why did he say this?

Because he considered it wrong that a person's future education should be decided by the 11+ exam. He was realistic enough to realise that people develop at a different pace.

He was NOT realistic! Some bright kids were ready for the 11+ at 9 years of age! (some even earlier!) Then again some would not have been ready until 16! (In some cases - never!). Kids have to be graded and it makes sense to do it somewhere around 10 to 12. Why hold back the bright kids and the future of this country? That is plain stupid!
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And taking away the choice of going to a grammar school robbed the kids from poor backgrounds of a BIG opportunity to better themselves.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Shoong wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Anybody would think that once again, according to some Tory posters, that the entire educational system was destroyed by Labour.
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Well thats what they would like you to think ...... This is because it is easier to blame someone else rather than take any responsibility themselves.
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However ... just a couple of facts.......
....when Labour took over 1997 ........ One in seven 21 year olds had trouble reading, and one in five had problems with basic numeracy.
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42% of 11 year olds were below the expected standard in maths, and half below the expected level in English
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The Tories did NOTHING regarding education for the masses but segregated out the pupils whose Daddy had the big cheque book leading to a two tier society in education.
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Now you have an education minister who like many in the cabinet are either inept or way out of their depth

... like you just did..?

Great contribution again.
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I bet you are delighted to have Southy as a "target" as your contribution would be completely zero.
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I just hope, as a taxpayer, that we didnt waste money on a University education for you

No, you certainly didn't.

I left school to do an apprenticeship because I wanted to earn money and get out into the world as it were and dare I say it, have done rather well for myself. No regrets.