Mass protest over council pay cuts (From Daily Echo)
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Union members march on Southampton Civic Centre in protest at pay cuts
1:50pm Monday 13th June 2011 in Southampton Council Strikes
Council workers protesting today.
HUNDREDS of Southampton City Council workers have marched through the city centre today in protest at planned pay cuts.
It comes as refuse collectors, street cleaners and traffic wardens continue strike action that is crippling services across the city.
The Unite and Unison unions said the demonstration would be the biggest in the south for years, and claim that as many as 1,000 workers took part.
They were joined by striking hospital cleaners.
The council estimates around 650 people attended the rally.
More than 100 refuse collectors are currently on a two-week long strike, which will end on June 22, street cleaners will start a seven-day walkout today, traffic wardens are refusing to collect parking fines, which the unions said is costing the city an estimated £100,000.
Meanwhile, 150 social workers are on a work to rule and workers on Itchen Bridge will not be collecting tolls today.
The city council has issued dismissal notices to 4,300 employees instructing them to accept new, inferior contracts or be sacked on July 11. They mean pay cuts for staff of up to 5.5 per cent.
Andy Straker of Unison said: "It really is appalling that in this day and age, a local authority can seek to intimidate a workforce out of their terms and conditions.
"A significant part of that workforce will now have to rely on the state to top up their earnings because Southampton council will not work with us on a negotiated solution.
"This is what a Tory-leadership means - those who can least afford to, suffer most."
Councillor Jeremy Moulton, deputy leader of Conservative-controlled Southampton City Council, said: "We want to resolve the current situation as quickly as possible but that still needs a £65m solution over the next four years.
"A date has now been set for a meeting with the unions and ACAS. The council wants to see a positive outcome and it is vital that all involved bring a constructive approach to the table and demonstrate a willingness to compromise.
"It is important to recognise that any compromise has to be set against the unfortunate reality that we have no choice but to make massive savings.
"In the meantime, I call on unions to end all industrial action immediately. Any union action that hits council income and incurs additional cost is only making this already very difficult situation worse. Less money means more pressure on jobs and services.
"By continuing this action unions are directly affecting the very people and services they should be trying to protect.
"We are addressing the budget deficit and one of the ways we are doing this is by changing the terms and conditions of staff by reducing the pay of those who earn the most by the most. Those on less than £17,500 will receive a small increase in pay.
"These measures will safeguard 400 more jobs from being lost at the council and will protect the services those jobs provide for our residents."
Union members gathered in Hoglands Park at 12.30pm before marching through the city centre to the Civic Centre for a rally addressed by Unison assistant general secretary Roger McKenzie.
Comments(168)
Higginz
says...
8:11am Mon 13 Jun 11
.
Understand why the relatively small pay cuts are being made, keep your jobs, retain some pride and accept the proposals.
.
Or.
.
Do what they do in the private sector and find a job more suited to your requirements.
kickingkay
says...
8:16am Mon 13 Jun 11
Surely those on strike are loosing more money by being on strike, therefore not being paid, than they would have by accepting a pay cut?
tootle
says...
8:17am Mon 13 Jun 11
GoodnessGraciousMe
says...
8:25am Mon 13 Jun 11
Higginz
says...
8:26am Mon 13 Jun 11
tootle wrote:Double? If that's even remotely true, then these workers have lost the last remnants of tattered respect I harboured. And I'd add that perhaps they might want to think about re-skilling.
Or apply for a private sector job in your field where the employer is offering the average "going rate" and inform them before you are even offered an interview that you were earning double that until made redundant by the Council and is there any chance of being paid the same for this job - whoops, no way!
peachy1
says...
8:33am Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead
says...
8:34am Mon 13 Jun 11
Soton1976
says...
8:36am Mon 13 Jun 11
mummsie
says...
8:45am Mon 13 Jun 11
Brite Spark
says...
9:00am Mon 13 Jun 11
Vonnie
says...
9:14am Mon 13 Jun 11
"the union has enough funds to pay these strikers so they don't lose any pay? why then are they getting their pay made up by the government? why should tax payers pay for someone who has a well paid job to refuse to go to work? "
Firstly, TU's do not pay strikers except in cases of real hardship.
Secondly, Why don't you read what the man actually said? Not what you thought he said. He did not say those on strike would be paid by the taxpayer whilst they are on strike. He said:-
"A significant part of that workforce will now have to rely on the state to top up their earnings because Southampton council will not work with us on a negotiated solution"
Meaning, that if these pay cuts are forced ahead, all those who work at the lower levels for the Council, not just those at present on strike, will be forced to work on the new so-called contracts (as will anyone else who takes those jobs) and will be earning below the legal level set by Government itself, known colloquially as the subsistence level.
That then, as it is for millions of other workers at present, will have to be topped up by benefits such as work-related benefit. Until, of course, this national administration decides to axe that as well.
One question I would like to throw in the "we are broke" pot. If as a country, and a locality, we are in such dire straits, why is it that foreign businesess are still investing quite heavily here? No businessman with any sense puts his money where he is likely to lose it in the short term. So is this making people believe "we are down the drain" just so much hype to push through political agendas?? If so, it is working.
BurningRAGE
says...
9:16am Mon 13 Jun 11
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Not only have people been made redundant, more are going to be let go next year, their pay is being cut, their pension is being taxed!
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Now generally speaking a private sector employee would eran more than a public sector employee if they were doing the same job!
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With regard to the comment about health and safety rules, Who do you think writes and introduces the rules? The council, so dont moan at the workers for following procedure.
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There are many other ways to solve the defecit problem and i have even posted a couple of suggestions on this echo website.
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Unfortunately you never know what you have in this world is until it is gone, these strikes are just an indication of how things would be without key services, and i dont know about you, but rubbish is stacked everyhere and looks horrible, smells worse! Appreciate what you have before its gone, if these departments become privatised in future dont be fooled in thinking it would be better - private company = in it for PROFIT!
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Keep standing up for yourselves guys and dont let this administration create a bigger divide between the classes!
UTS
says...
9:19am Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA
says...
9:28am Mon 13 Jun 11
"Reality,reality, reality,, OUT OUT OUT"
"Bite the hand, bite the hand, bite the hand THAT FEEDS"
obviously accompanied by various whistles, drums and tapestries on sticks.
I hope they enjoy their "french style" day out.
Mr sheep
says...
9:33am Mon 13 Jun 11
Roger Khan
says...
9:37am Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA
says...
9:41am Mon 13 Jun 11
Mr sheep wrote:hear that SCC ? when you have sacked the brain-washed lay-abouts, give this guy an interview when you start recruiting their replacements.
I am unemployed and need a job ,Have class 2 liscence ,I can drive a bin lorry , scc can I have a job plz! no joke , I have lived off the dole for a few years now due to having disabled children , Im able to work again and would love to have a good job .
Oh and Mr sheep... If you need to join a union, there are plenty of unions you can join. A few are even run by intelligent people who can further than the end of their nose... just avoid the communist Unison.
;-)
nonethewiser
says...
9:46am Mon 13 Jun 11
kickingkay wrote:The Unions are paying the salaries of all those on strike (and it should be said they are ones enticing staff to strike with the offer of full pay), no work and full pay...very nice indeed.
Please correct me if I am wrong! Surely those on strike are loosing more money by being on strike, therefore not being paid, than they would have by accepting a pay cut?
I work for the Council, do not support the Unions and fully support the pay cuts and securing jobs. These idiots are going to ruin it for everyone!
Shoong
says...
9:49am Mon 13 Jun 11
Brite Spark
says...
9:50am Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead
says...
9:52am Mon 13 Jun 11
Vonnie wrote:Vonnie people on low wages ( below £17,500) aren't getting a pay cut so why would the union suggest that the government would have to top up their wages? also on these posts ( if you had read them) Ant Smoking has stated that these strikers would have their pay paid for by the Trade Unions. many people have posted the monies lost in a strike would be greater than what they would lose in pay cuts & the reply was "the unions have plenty of funds to pay them & there's a huge strike fund" so please get your facts right according to dust men & union & labour people they are getting paid by the union & if that's so the way it was said by the union is wrong as if your already on low wages with your money being topped up by government you are not going to be affected by the cuts & the ones over £17,500 aren't going to get such a huge cut to put themselves down into that position.if the Echo & unions figures are correct £17,800 -£230 =£17,570 so how does that entitle them to have their earnings topped up especially with the amount of overtime they do? ( I agree with you I read it wrong)
Loosehead said
"the union has enough funds to pay these strikers so they don't lose any pay? why then are they getting their pay made up by the government? why should tax payers pay for someone who has a well paid job to refuse to go to work? "
Firstly, TU's do not pay strikers except in cases of real hardship.
Secondly, Why don't you read what the man actually said? Not what you thought he said. He did not say those on strike would be paid by the taxpayer whilst they are on strike. He said:-
"A significant part of that workforce will now have to rely on the state to top up their earnings because Southampton council will not work with us on a negotiated solution"
Meaning, that if these pay cuts are forced ahead, all those who work at the lower levels for the Council, not just those at present on strike, will be forced to work on the new so-called contracts (as will anyone else who takes those jobs) and will be earning below the legal level set by Government itself, known colloquially as the subsistence level.
That then, as it is for millions of other workers at present, will have to be topped up by benefits such as work-related benefit. Until, of course, this national administration decides to axe that as well.
One question I would like to throw in the "we are broke" pot. If as a country, and a locality, we are in such dire straits, why is it that foreign businesess are still investing quite heavily here? No businessman with any sense puts his money where he is likely to lose it in the short term. So is this making people believe "we are down the drain" just so much hype to push through political agendas?? If so, it is working.
Condor Man
says...
9:54am Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead
says...
9:57am Mon 13 Jun 11
Condor Man wrote:but Condorman if the lefties on here are correct then they won't miss payments as they're receiving a wage from the unions? I hope they're paying tax & stamp on it?
I think the council should hold out for 3 months. When union members start missing mortgage payments the strike will end.
Linesman
says...
10:02am Mon 13 Jun 11
Condor Man wrote:Which means that they will be evicted and need to be rehoused by the council.
I think the council should hold out for 3 months. When union members start missing mortgage payments the strike will end.
Smart thinking Condor Man.
Wizzel
says...
10:15am Mon 13 Jun 11
SW - care left - there's no care in this city
Roger Khan
says...
10:24am Mon 13 Jun 11
tootle
says...
10:38am Mon 13 Jun 11
Higginz wrote:The Council above wasn't SCC but yes, double, for doing exactly the same job!!!!! We actually had 2 ex-employees ring up and yes, they were earning double the going rate. Our workers have not had a pay increase, it has been made clear from our larger customers that if prices rise we'll lose the contracts because they can employ cheaper(if not necessarily better) therefore it is us, the employers, who have taken a knockdown in wages because overheads don't stop going up!. Sorry but the days of Council Workers being low paid in return for pensions and job security went out the window long ago. I have no doubt that some trades can earn more in a secure private sector jobs but I'm pretty sure it isn't the norm these days.
tootle wrote: Or apply for a private sector job in your field where the employer is offering the average "going rate" and inform them before you are even offered an interview that you were earning double that until made redundant by the Council and is there any chance of being paid the same for this job - whoops, no way!Double? If that's even remotely true, then these workers have lost the last remnants of tattered respect I harboured. And I'd add that perhaps they might want to think about re-skilling.
Roger Khan
says...
10:40am Mon 13 Jun 11
You pickett!!
OSPREYSAINT
says...
10:45am Mon 13 Jun 11
Brite Spark wrote:The hi-viz stuff is to make it easier fror the opposition factions to hit their targets, today, bring your own tomatoes. On the roads today there are many myopic drivers and I guess it is a Health and Safety thing that requires the workers to be seen, so that they don't get knocked down, you seem to think that it is a Union thing, but I think it is more likely the Management that make the rules on this as they are likely to be held responsible if a worker is knocked down on duty, I can't see Unions making a fuss over Safety apparell, it is probably something that they do agree on.
Why the plethora of Hi Viz jackets on the picket line? I much preferred the traditional donkey jacket which supported the impression of workers who were prepared to get their hands dirty for a living, as opposed to today's union mollycoddled, work shy - Health and Safety bubble wrapped, bunch of big girls' blouses.
nonethewiser
says...
10:45am Mon 13 Jun 11
Wizzel wrote:Unfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this city
George4th
says...
10:49am Mon 13 Jun 11
>
The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......
OSPREYSAINT
says...
10:52am Mon 13 Jun 11
kickingkay wrote:It is a fact that the money they are losing will never be recovered, but I think this dispute is more about Conditions, than the loss of pay, they are not only fighting for themselves but also for anyone that is employed in the future. It is in both sides interest to get a sensible solution. Someone mentioned strike-pay, well that doesn't amount to much and is mostly the Strikers own money that they paid in Union Subscriptions.
Please correct me if I am wrong! Surely those on strike are loosing more money by being on strike, therefore not being paid, than they would have by accepting a pay cut?
MGRA
says...
10:54am Mon 13 Jun 11
nonethewiser wrote:this is not true. If there becomes a public health issue, then outside agencies become involved and the refuse can be removed. The council can legally divert other employees to refuse collection but there is no point. The only reason rubbish is piling up is because the challenged and stupid are putting rubbish outside their houses/flats instead of using their heads... If I was in the council I would be in no hurry to clear the rubbish, if the residents are that filthy then they get what they deserve. Also the vast majority of households in southampton are currently proving that 14 day refuse collection is feasible since they have managed fine thank you very much unions,,,, so I see fewer refuse workers in southampton in the future anyway. Even more redundancies. Well done unison/unite... your slogan should be "together, we can work for a future with less jobs"
Wizzel wrote:Unfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this city
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:07am Mon 13 Jun 11
UTS wrote:That is your right but is it as simple as that then? I have no sympathy with Politically biased Councils who are trying to shaft their more vunerable workers. Can you recommend a Private Company that can and will carry out the job? Would they be completely private or working to the Councils agenda and at Councils rates of pay?
No sympathy with these politically biased unions. Start sacking these people off and get in private companies to run stuff.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:16am Mon 13 Jun 11
George4th wrote:No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:21am Mon 13 Jun 11
Roger Khan wrote:That jpke will run and run, and isnot funny, the answer is to breath through your mouth, until a sensible settlement is reached, just don't blow it this time.
what do you do when your nose goes on strike? You pickett!!
nonethewiser
says...
11:23am Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:You are correct, however you have to justify it becoming a "public health issue" and the Unions will claim it isnt close yet...which means their strike will have more impact. If the Council took action now the Unions would act on this and cause even more problems.
nonethewiser wrote:this is not true. If there becomes a public health issue, then outside agencies become involved and the refuse can be removed. The council can legally divert other employees to refuse collection but there is no point. The only reason rubbish is piling up is because the challenged and stupid are putting rubbish outside their houses/flats instead of using their heads... If I was in the council I would be in no hurry to clear the rubbish, if the residents are that filthy then they get what they deserve. Also the vast majority of households in southampton are currently proving that 14 day refuse collection is feasible since they have managed fine thank you very much unions,,,, so I see fewer refuse workers in southampton in the future anyway. Even more redundancies. Well done unison/unite... your slogan should be "together, we can work for a future with less jobs"Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Whilst the residents are more rightly concerned about their rubbish, we also have other services striking, (which benefit the residents) however it means the Council is losing money by the day...this puts more jobs at risk. Us non-striking staff cant even go and collect tolls on the bridge or help parking as we are from a different service area and the Unions would take action if they saw it happening!
And finally...yes the strikers pay subscription fees (thats why the Unions are harping on, they need to be seen to be doing something)...but they are still being paid a salary NOT TO WORK! Nothing is coming out of their pocket!
MGRA
says...
11:30am Mon 13 Jun 11
nonethewiser wrote:the "public health issue" won't need to be justified... environmental health will just rubber stamp removal. As soon as there is a serious health risk, then the agency will authorise the removal of the rubbish. So basically the harsh reality is that a man, woman or child will have to die or become seriously ill before the national agency will step in.
MGRA wrote:You are correct, however you have to justify it becoming a "public health issue" and the Unions will claim it isnt close yet...which means their strike will have more impact. If the Council took action now the Unions would act on this and cause even more problems.
nonethewiser wrote:this is not true. If there becomes a public health issue, then outside agencies become involved and the refuse can be removed. The council can legally divert other employees to refuse collection but there is no point. The only reason rubbish is piling up is because the challenged and stupid are putting rubbish outside their houses/flats instead of using their heads... If I was in the council I would be in no hurry to clear the rubbish, if the residents are that filthy then they get what they deserve. Also the vast majority of households in southampton are currently proving that 14 day refuse collection is feasible since they have managed fine thank you very much unions,,,, so I see fewer refuse workers in southampton in the future anyway. Even more redundancies. Well done unison/unite... your slogan should be "together, we can work for a future with less jobs"Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Whilst the residents are more rightly concerned about their rubbish, we also have other services striking, (which benefit the residents) however it means the Council is losing money by the day...this puts more jobs at risk. Us non-striking staff cant even go and collect tolls on the bridge or help parking as we are from a different service area and the Unions would take action if they saw it happening!
And finally...yes the strikers pay subscription fees (thats why the Unions are harping on, they need to be seen to be doing something)...but they are still being paid a salary NOT TO WORK! Nothing is coming out of their pocket!
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:36am Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:MGRA you have some good points this time, it is a tricky decision to make, I must admit in my area the people have been very disciplined with their rubbish and it is not an immediate problem, but I haven't seen what is happening elsewhere in the City, I guess there are areas where the situation for what ever reason is more desperate, having made their point I think the bin men could get more support, if they came back for a while and cleaned up the problem areas, but I guess intransigence from both sides wouldn't allow this? Would a fortnightly collection really be that bad, alternative weeks for recyclable and general rubbish pick ups, might encourage to recycle more? I suppose there would be some areas where it wouldn't be sensible, especially high rise flat complexes where storage would be a concern. I don't know if this part of the dispute?
nonethewiser wrote:this is not true. If there becomes a public health issue, then outside agencies become involved and the refuse can be removed. The council can legally divert other employees to refuse collection but there is no point. The only reason rubbish is piling up is because the challenged and stupid are putting rubbish outside their houses/flats instead of using their heads... If I was in the council I would be in no hurry to clear the rubbish, if the residents are that filthy then they get what they deserve. Also the vast majority of households in southampton are currently proving that 14 day refuse collection is feasible since they have managed fine thank you very much unions,,,, so I see fewer refuse workers in southampton in the future anyway. Even more redundancies. Well done unison/unite... your slogan should be "together, we can work for a future with less jobs"Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Roger Khan
says...
11:41am Mon 13 Jun 11
George4th
says...
11:48am Mon 13 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.
George4th wrote:No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:50am Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:Again. I agree MGRA, how often has someone died before the Authorities move in and take action, but surely the Council by not taking action are boosting the workers case and are showing that they don't actually care about their public? What a mess......
nonethewiser wrote:the "public health issue" won't need to be justified... environmental health will just rubber stamp removal. As soon as there is a serious health risk, then the agency will authorise the removal of the rubbish. So basically the harsh reality is that a man, woman or child will have to die or become seriously ill before the national agency will step in.MGRA wrote:You are correct, however you have to justify it becoming a "public health issue" and the Unions will claim it isnt close yet...which means their strike will have more impact. If the Council took action now the Unions would act on this and cause even more problems. Whilst the residents are more rightly concerned about their rubbish, we also have other services striking, (which benefit the residents) however it means the Council is losing money by the day...this puts more jobs at risk. Us non-striking staff cant even go and collect tolls on the bridge or help parking as we are from a different service area and the Unions would take action if they saw it happening! And finally...yes the strikers pay subscription fees (thats why the Unions are harping on, they need to be seen to be doing something)...but they are still being paid a salary NOT TO WORK! Nothing is coming out of their pocket!nonethewiser wrote:this is not true. If there becomes a public health issue, then outside agencies become involved and the refuse can be removed. The council can legally divert other employees to refuse collection but there is no point. The only reason rubbish is piling up is because the challenged and stupid are putting rubbish outside their houses/flats instead of using their heads... If I was in the council I would be in no hurry to clear the rubbish, if the residents are that filthy then they get what they deserve. Also the vast majority of households in southampton are currently proving that 14 day refuse collection is feasible since they have managed fine thank you very much unions,,,, so I see fewer refuse workers in southampton in the future anyway. Even more redundancies. Well done unison/unite... your slogan should be "together, we can work for a future with less jobs"Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
owen_thesaints
says...
11:57am Mon 13 Jun 11
nonethewiser wrote:"They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!"
Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
But they are doing this on the bridge, so what's the difference (other than losing oncome from tolls!)?
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:57am Mon 13 Jun 11
George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
George4th
says...
12:03pm Mon 13 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:No!
George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
> I believe that the council employees are being misguided by their union. The union has devised a strategy that will ultimately end in failure. They do not know how to win hearts and minds therefore their dispute is lost.
owen_thesaints
says...
12:06pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Can anyone tell me where to apply for my refund for services not provided and where I should invoice my time and mileage to? I believe it's 45p a mile now not 54p? ;)
nonethewiser
says...
12:10pm Mon 13 Jun 11
owen_thesaints wrote:On the Bridge only directly linked service managers are allowed to stand in for striking staff, and they are only covering for a couple of hours a day.
nonethewiser wrote:"They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!" But they are doing this on the bridge, so what's the difference (other than losing oncome from tolls!)?Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
owen_thesaints
says...
12:16pm Mon 13 Jun 11
nonethewiser wrote:Peak times then!
owen_thesaints wrote:On the Bridge only directly linked service managers are allowed to stand in for striking staff, and they are only covering for a couple of hours a day.nonethewiser wrote:"They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!" But they are doing this on the bridge, so what's the difference (other than losing oncome from tolls!)?Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
That's a lot of 'directly linked service managers' they've got then for a small operation like toll collection as all lanes are being manned... Makes you wonder doesn't it if they're a little top heavy as a department perhaps?
nonethewiser
says...
12:28pm Mon 13 Jun 11
owen_thesaints wrote:Er, actually its only 3! Not all the staff on the bridge are striking, so they also remain at work! and that's 3 managers from Highways Services not the Itchen Bridge alone.
nonethewiser wrote:Peak times then! That's a lot of 'directly linked service managers' they've got then for a small operation like toll collection as all lanes are being manned... Makes you wonder doesn't it if they're a little top heavy as a department perhaps?owen_thesaints wrote:On the Bridge only directly linked service managers are allowed to stand in for striking staff, and they are only covering for a couple of hours a day.nonethewiser wrote:"They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!" But they are doing this on the bridge, so what's the difference (other than losing oncome from tolls!)?Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Of course the Council is top heavy...that is why they are having a restructure and getting rid of some of them! I dont see the Unions striking about that!
Roger Khan
says...
12:32pm Mon 13 Jun 11
nonethewiser wrote:Scabs
owen_thesaints wrote:Er, actually its only 3! Not all the staff on the bridge are striking, so they also remain at work! and that's 3 managers from Highways Services not the Itchen Bridge alone.
nonethewiser wrote:Peak times then! That's a lot of 'directly linked service managers' they've got then for a small operation like toll collection as all lanes are being manned... Makes you wonder doesn't it if they're a little top heavy as a department perhaps?owen_thesaints wrote:On the Bridge only directly linked service managers are allowed to stand in for striking staff, and they are only covering for a couple of hours a day.nonethewiser wrote:"They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!" But they are doing this on the bridge, so what's the difference (other than losing oncome from tolls!)?Wizzel wrote: Good for you nonethewiser i support them too having endured this myself. My question is, if the council is not paying their staff while on strike why are they not useing the money they are saving in recruiting firms to clear up the mess. OOps too late the estate oiks have set fire to it..! SW - care left - there's no care in this cityUnfortunately there are strict guidelines to follow during strike action and it means the Council cant use any outside contractor/s to clear up the mess the striking staff are leaving! They cant even use non-striking Council staff to do the jobs. If they did the Unions would start crying again and add on even more industrial action!
Of course the Council is top heavy...that is why they are having a restructure and getting rid of some of them! I dont see the Unions striking about that!
OSPREYSAINT
says...
12:49pm Mon 13 Jun 11
owen_thesaints wrote:I would strongly advise you not to pay your Council tax under any circumstances, we need some martyrs to make a stand against the Council and you get my full support in this matter. Your public spirit has to be applauded, more power to your elbow. The address for your claim is Southampton City Council, Local Taxation Services, Civic Centre, Southampton, SO14 7LD. Telephone number is 02380 80833009. Fax Number, is 02380832144. e-mail council.tax@southamp
I'm off to the tip tonight! Can anyone tell me where to apply for my refund for services not provided and where I should invoice my time and mileage to? I believe it's 45p a mile now not 54p? ;)
ton.gov.uk - good luck with that and please keep us informed on how you get on.
sotongirl100
says...
12:59pm Mon 13 Jun 11
How offensive. Please realise that you don't know anything about the staff currently manning the toll booths - or what pressure they were put on to be there.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
1:04pm Mon 13 Jun 11
George4th wrote:Fair enough, it looks as if you are set in your ways and cannot be asked to seek reason in the Unions, so I will leave it at at that, hope you don't mind if I continue on my apparently misguided crusade to persuade others to see reason? I base my opinions on a similar dispute that I was involved in, during the 1990's, yes I know it was a long time ago, and despite a long dispute and a considerable loss of earnings, a change of management, a change of attitudes on both sides resulted in a satisfactory outcome for both sides, the benefits of which have slowly made up for the bad times. It just needs a common sense approach from both sides to get a result,. There are no winners, and at the moment the innocent public are the victims, not the Council, not the workers.
OSPREYSAINT wrote:No! > I believe that the council employees are being misguided by their union. The union has devised a strategy that will ultimately end in failure. They do not know how to win hearts and minds therefore their dispute is lost.George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
1:17pm Mon 13 Jun 11
sotongirl100 wrote:Scab is a very harsh term used in disputes, and as you say you don't have all facts about why people are working while others are on strike, it could be that they are threatened with punitive action against them, particularly if they are not protected by a Union, or they may disagree with the action and are happy to work on, that is their right, however unpopular, the only problem with this is that while things are still happening no one else is bothered who is doing the work. This usually helps to elongate the problem.
"Scabs”" How offensive. Please realise that you don't know anything about the staff currently manning the toll booths - or what pressure they were put on to be there.
Roger Khan
says...
1:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:Ur right so I retract the statement. Someone called me it once but that was coz I didnt buy them a drink?
sotongirl100 wrote:Scab is a very harsh term used in disputes, and as you say you don't have all facts about why people are working while others are on strike, it could be that they are threatened with punitive action against them, particularly if they are not protected by a Union, or they may disagree with the action and are happy to work on, that is their right, however unpopular, the only problem with this is that while things are still happening no one else is bothered who is doing the work. This usually helps to elongate the problem.
"Scabs”" How offensive. Please realise that you don't know anything about the staff currently manning the toll booths - or what pressure they were put on to be there.
George4th
says...
1:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:Well, for a start, the union does not have the full support of the council workers. Bit of a handicap, wouldn't you agree?
George4th wrote:Fair enough, it looks as if you are set in your ways and cannot be asked to seek reason in the Unions, so I will leave it at at that, hope you don't mind if I continue on my apparently misguided crusade to persuade others to see reason? I base my opinions on a similar dispute that I was involved in, during the 1990's, yes I know it was a long time ago, and despite a long dispute and a considerable loss of earnings, a change of management, a change of attitudes on both sides resulted in a satisfactory outcome for both sides, the benefits of which have slowly made up for the bad times. It just needs a common sense approach from both sides to get a result,. There are no winners, and at the moment the innocent public are the victims, not the Council, not the workers.
OSPREYSAINT wrote:No! > I believe that the council employees are being misguided by their union. The union has devised a strategy that will ultimately end in failure. They do not know how to win hearts and minds therefore their dispute is lost.George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
>
And yes, you are right - the public are the victims. Imagine if the same public were paying customers who had the choice to buy elsewhere...........
...All the jobs would go!
owen_thesaints
says...
2:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11
As for the rest of the disputes can anyone actually tell me what a 'binman' earns per hour, basic pay etc?
TheJeepster
says...
2:17pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Keep taking the medicine everyone, it's hurting so it must be working!
Whining bankers and politicians made a stand when their conditions were threatened didn't they? Or did they just take what they thought they were worth?
What a shame we didn't hear the same level of condemnation for those major spongers/failures.
Same old story, same old Brits...pick on the little guy you see as inferior to yourself but tip your cap to those you imagine are superior, when in fact...they are just bigger thieves!
What a laughably wretched bunch you are!
TheJeepster
says...
2:20pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA
says...
2:44pm Mon 13 Jun 11
TheJeepster wrote:people like you have not had the penny drop... The UK economy will NEVER recover from its height. Wages for unskilled will stay low and go even lower. It will soon be cheaper to import and house labour from parts of the eastern EU than it will pay some of the current un-skilled rates. Globally we can not compete as an economy and with the "green" taxes, we are further doomed. We just have to accept this and do nothing, upskill or emigrate.
...And gutless too!
bigfella777
says...
2:51pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Strikes just a short word for laziness I swear people think its their right to be employed these days,no wonder all the foreign workers come here must think were mad.
Roger Khan
says...
3:02pm Mon 13 Jun 11
bigfella777 wrote:Does Famous Grouse count? Ive just had a half a bottle, shes starting to look nice. Just sent her to get some beef monster munch via the tip.
Who cares about money? what a sad lot people are.As long as youve got a good women and whisky in the jar.
Strikes just a short word for laziness I swear people think its their right to be employed these days,no wonder all the foreign workers come here must think were mad.
tiggerlou
says...
4:08pm Mon 13 Jun 11
erica smith
says...
4:08pm Mon 13 Jun 11
yet!!!!
Dave of Dibden
says...
4:13pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
4:14pm Mon 13 Jun 11
8:22am Mon 13 Jun 11
"Ant when you talk to road sweepers & bin men & they find the amount printed in the echo hilarious as they're on a lot more than that & in the case of bin men their overtime puts them up into the high £30,000-£40,000 this is not basic pay & the actual loss to basic pay in these cuts works out to approve.£8,00 a week & after the drop in tax & NI payment this amount will be hardly noticed,that's why so many people on here are against a group of people who seem to be lead up the garden path by their unions,even in your left wing mind you must see that inevitably they are striking themselves towards redundancy where as at the moment front line staff aren't facing redundancy."
Well said, the council shouldnt give an inch, no negotiation.
The strikers should accept the new pay and conditions immediately and get back to work, otherwise they will find plenty of people willing to work for the new arranegements on July 11th
southy
says...
4:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:There one point you need to know, the comments on here Do Not Reflect the majority of people in Southampton, the best it might achive is about 50-50 is they are lucky, but I think its more 60-40 in support of the strikers.
George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
Those of you who believe there is no Public support for the Council Workers, I personally colletted 24 names and money in support for the Council workers. And that was just me, there was another 11 people doing the same that I counted, at the Demo/Rally march in southampton today.
Echo Reporter Matt Smith who was there, can back that up I did show him what I personally had colletted, and my numbers was low, because I was at the back, the best was the team up at the front, they was clearing a 100 signatures each.
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
4:24pm Mon 13 Jun 11
You cant get any work out of them, They're part of the union,
Dont need them, they're part of the union.
Part time men, them in the union,
Till they get their P45's..
Now I'm no union man
Not fazed by the striking man
I say what I think
That the unions stink
Yes I'm no union man.
When they meet in the local hall
They'll swallow the hope from the union dope
With a hell of a shout
It's out brothers out
And to the residents? Stuff you all!
You cant get any work out of them, They're part of the union,
Dont need them, they're part of the union.
Part time men, them in the union,
Till they get their P45's..
To the union men I'm wise
To the lies of the union guys
And I don't get fooled
By the rigged Echo poll
'Cause I always read between the lines.
And they will never get their way
If they strike for higher pay
When they show their card
To the dole yard!
This is what I say.
You cant get any work out of them, They're part of the union,
Dont need them, they're part of the union.
Part time men, them in the union,
Till they get their P45's..
Before the union said "all out!"
My bins were emptied regular like
But I can see its simple
To take my bags down the tip
This week and every other week of the year.
So though we're working men
We can ruin the union's plan
Keep our council taxes down
and the union men out
And privatise the whole blooming lot of 'em!
You cant get any work out of them, They're part of the union,
Dont need them, they're part of the union.
Part time men, them in the union,
Till they get their P45's..
all together now!
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
4:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11
How many times have the same people signed these petitions in different places?
I am very sceptical about the level of support you claim, as i have heard virtually NOONE supporting the unions, unless of course they or their relatives work for the council, which makes up quite a few.
The unions can bus a million people into southampton if they wish and they can all wave their banners, at the end of the day we "independent" residents all know that what we want is for the strikers to have their pay capped to levels which provide value to the taxpayer.
Low paid private sector workers and pensioners should not be forced to pay exorbitant council taxes just so militant council workers can be paid well over the odds for low skilled jobs.
The council are doing the right thing, changing the pay and conditions of council workers who have had their wages inched up to silly levels over the years by militant unions and pay deals with labour authorities.
Time to reset all these pay levels to a realistic amount - downwards!
If the workers dont like it, they can go take their skills into the private sector and see if they can be paid more.
No public sector worker should be paid more than the job would merit in the private sector, or by definition the voters are getting poor value for money.
southy
says...
4:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11
erica smith wrote:Good post, I also wonder if they realise if it was given to a private contract totally, People would get another bill though there door for about £22 to £26 per mth, on top of the bills they are getting now, Just like the old rates system use to include the water bill, and got split up into 2 seperate bills.
so when will people get it - the poorest paid providing the most important services to the community as a whole and to the most vulnerable are being penalised by the Government via the cuts. Most care providers (i.e., poorly paid women) are on a very low wage yet they provide essntial care for the most vulnerable in our communities and if they should go to the private sector they have even worse terms and conditions of service. As for the 'bin men' who ever said that was NOT an important service to the community - compare it, if you will, with some of the other services which most people are happy to pay for, ie., water, electricity, tv, satellite tv, pubs and clubs etc!!!!! And I haven't even mentioned cigarettes or booze
yet!!!!
Roger Khan
says...
4:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy wrote:I wouldn't pay it I would chain myself to Guildhall Square. Then comment on here about myself from my phone.
erica smith wrote:Good post, I also wonder if they realise if it was given to a private contract totally, People would get another bill though there door for about £22 to £26 per mth, on top of the bills they are getting now, Just like the old rates system use to include the water bill, and got split up into 2 seperate bills.
so when will people get it - the poorest paid providing the most important services to the community as a whole and to the most vulnerable are being penalised by the Government via the cuts. Most care providers (i.e., poorly paid women) are on a very low wage yet they provide essntial care for the most vulnerable in our communities and if they should go to the private sector they have even worse terms and conditions of service. As for the 'bin men' who ever said that was NOT an important service to the community - compare it, if you will, with some of the other services which most people are happy to pay for, ie., water, electricity, tv, satellite tv, pubs and clubs etc!!!!! And I haven't even mentioned cigarettes or booze
yet!!!!
owen_thesaints
says...
4:43pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy wrote:And those of us who don't support the strike? Where can we sign?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:There one point you need to know, the comments on here Do Not Reflect the majority of people in Southampton, the best it might achive is about 50-50 is they are lucky, but I think its more 60-40 in support of the strikers. Those of you who believe there is no Public support for the Council Workers, I personally colletted 24 names and money in support for the Council workers. And that was just me, there was another 11 people doing the same that I counted, at the Demo/Rally march in southampton today. Echo Reporter Matt Smith who was there, can back that up I did show him what I personally had colletted, and my numbers was low, because I was at the back, the best was the team up at the front, they was clearing a 100 signatures each.George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
Can you count all the people who looked on with indifference?
I saw the Socialist Party (I think) outside Sainsbury's in Bitterne last Wednesday collecting signatures. Whilst one or two signed the majority (yes, the majority) of people did not, walking on past.
How does the one or two who sign prove that the majority support the strike? It's hardly scientific....
SpittingMoreFire
says...
4:48pm Mon 13 Jun 11
.
This must be biased reporting at its best, its most lavish!
.
And seven paragraphs of comment verses two and a sentence! For Shame.
.
This has to be the most extensive comment from Southampton City Council I have EVER seen! Talk about Royston and his "noisy news"!
.
Completely fails to report that the unions say suspension of dismissal notices ahead of these talks will halt the industrial action.
.
And yet, here Jeremy harps on that the unions should halt the industrial action. He forgets the unions have given him the answer.
.
Surely he is not so out of touch as Alistair Neill seems to be? No, Jeremy would rather inflict more misery on the city.
.
Here is his "spirit of co-operation" for the sake of Southampton he talks of.
.
And where is comment from the leader of the council? Has he left his city in crisis yet again?
.
Strange there's no video news here in support of these hundreds of workers as proof. Would have thought the Echo would revel in that, perhaps they are still cutting it together: large gaps in the crowd, emphasising stragglers in the march, etc.
.
(It's going to take me all day to read through all these comments...!)
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
4:48pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sorry mate, taxpayers just want costs kept down to realistic levels.
How on earth can any council justify paying any bin man more than £17.5k !! (below this level it is said staff are getting a small increase!)
It's a joke.
It's like procurement, it makes no sense a company or council paying £2 for something which you could buy in a supermarket down the road for £1
The council have a duty of care to the locals to only pay the minimum they need to to fill they jobs that need to be done.
Anything more is waste, and should be cut out.
This is also the case for top jobs. I cant see any justification for paying any council officer over £50k a year.
If these council workers (junior and senior) continue to be overpaid, how can they hold their heads up in public again, let alone have the cheek to strike about it.
They should look into the eyes of the disadvantaged and the poor who still have to pay their council taxes, and think whether they really deserve their feather bedded salaries.
I know what those eyes will be saying back to them.....
Shame on you! Shame on you!
owen_thesaints
says...
4:51pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_Well said that man, (or woman)!
together wrote:
Southy, Sorry mate, taxpayers just want costs kept down to realistic levels. How on earth can any council justify paying any bin man more than £17.5k !! (below this level it is said staff are getting a small increase!) It's a joke. It's like procurement, it makes no sense a company or council paying £2 for something which you could buy in a supermarket down the road for £1 The council have a duty of care to the locals to only pay the minimum they need to to fill they jobs that need to be done. Anything more is waste, and should be cut out. This is also the case for top jobs. I cant see any justification for paying any council officer over £50k a year. If these council workers (junior and senior) continue to be overpaid, how can they hold their heads up in public again, let alone have the cheek to strike about it. They should look into the eyes of the disadvantaged and the poor who still have to pay their council taxes, and think whether they really deserve their feather bedded salaries. I know what those eyes will be saying back to them..... Shame on you! Shame on you!
southy
says...
4:54pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_That is a good point but I hope none have, I have had a high number of people that have said to me that they have all ready signed the petition at other locations so they have not signed it but have given into the kitty and taken a leaflet with them.
together wrote:
southy,
How many times have the same people signed these petitions in different places?
I am very sceptical about the level of support you claim, as i have heard virtually NOONE supporting the unions, unless of course they or their relatives work for the council, which makes up quite a few.
The unions can bus a million people into southampton if they wish and they can all wave their banners, at the end of the day we "independent" residents all know that what we want is for the strikers to have their pay capped to levels which provide value to the taxpayer.
Low paid private sector workers and pensioners should not be forced to pay exorbitant council taxes just so militant council workers can be paid well over the odds for low skilled jobs.
The council are doing the right thing, changing the pay and conditions of council workers who have had their wages inched up to silly levels over the years by militant unions and pay deals with labour authorities.
Time to reset all these pay levels to a realistic amount - downwards!
If the workers dont like it, they can go take their skills into the private sector and see if they can be paid more.
No public sector worker should be paid more than the job would merit in the private sector, or by definition the voters are getting poor value for money.
You come round to the estate that I live in and that support for the Council Workers increases very high, and if you notice for one of the working estates its very clean here and we have not seen a dustbin lorry around here from a mth. But walking though town heading towards Hoglands Park, in the area where its meant to be a little bit on the posh side there is rubbish every where, and this area saw a bin lorry there last week.
You don't realise how very important it is to have this service, these guys are worth a lot more, its because of the job that they do, is one of the reasons why people health is so good, if they was not there you soon be getting ill with all sorts of ills, There job is more important than any one in the finacal world.
And if this job was done in the private sector totally you would be forking out an extra £22 - £26 per mth and you would only see them once a mth, Its the public sector thats keeping this country running not your private sector all they want to do is leach of the public sector.
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
5:05pm Mon 13 Jun 11
If there was an infinite amount of money, it would be lovely to pay everyone more, even what they thought they were worth (which would always be going up)
However, there is not unlimited money, and sadly, the last governement were spending it like it was.
That means not only do we have to be able to pay ongoing wages of all the public sector workers, but we have to pay off all the interest on the government debt taken out to fund the last ten years of overspend.
As with people's household budget, the government has to cut its cloth to fit the revenues they make.
This country simply does not have the money to keep paying so many public sector workers so much money. The time has come for a reckoning, and jobs will be lost, and pay and conditions will be cut.
If the government does not do this, the situation will get worse, then the IMF will come in and do it with bells on.
If that means some services are cut, or not as good, and some people who have spent all their very good wages and then some are going to feel the pinch, well sorry, that is life.
We are lucky to be living in a country where there is a safety net, and people should not in the main be homeless or starving on the streets. That is right and proper if we can afford it.
What we cannot afford as a country is to pay public sector workers through the nose with borrowed money so they can flush it down the sink on anything from new cars, sky tv, new trainers, spray tans, and bejazzling!
Sorry, no bin man should be on over £17.5k when there are QUALIFIED private sector workers earning less and having to pay their wages through excessive council taxes.
southy
says...
5:06pm Mon 13 Jun 11
owen_thesaints wrote:Well try and start one and see how many signatures you get, Your against it so it be up to those that are to start one.
southy wrote:And those of us who don't support the strike? Where can we sign?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:There one point you need to know, the comments on here Do Not Reflect the majority of people in Southampton, the best it might achive is about 50-50 is they are lucky, but I think its more 60-40 in support of the strikers. Those of you who believe there is no Public support for the Council Workers, I personally colletted 24 names and money in support for the Council workers. And that was just me, there was another 11 people doing the same that I counted, at the Demo/Rally march in southampton today. Echo Reporter Matt Smith who was there, can back that up I did show him what I personally had colletted, and my numbers was low, because I was at the back, the best was the team up at the front, they was clearing a 100 signatures each.George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
Can you count all the people who looked on with indifference?
I saw the Socialist Party (I think) outside Sainsbury's in Bitterne last Wednesday collecting signatures. Whilst one or two signed the majority (yes, the majority) of people did not, walking on past.
How does the one or two who sign prove that the majority support the strike? It's hardly scientific....
Not out side Sainsbury but that might of been the SWP lot, the SP do have one there and on that day I beleive, but at another spot.
Have you though those walking by might off all ready signed it, as it has been ongoing now since last year, not long after the Government pass on to the Councils to make those cuts, Its like the stall in Shirley there was a time when people where queing to sign, but now we are picking up those who don't go into Shirley that often.
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
5:16pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Take a read of the article from which this quote comes, and maybe you will realise that there really isnt any choice, whatever it would be nice to do, the outgoings of the country need to be cut massively, and as a lot of the cost is in salaries, and we dont want to pay it out again in benefits is we make people redundant, that means pay cuts, and benefit cuts (so the money isnt just spent in top ups to salaries).
Better to try and keep as many people in work as possible, so people can keep their self respect, but wages will have to fall.
Professor Kevin Dowd:"The long-term, even medium-term, outlook is therefore deeply unpleasant. Taxes will rise, sharply, but these rises will not be enough, and will leave younger people with little incentive to work or to save. Benefits across the board will be cut, massively: the government will renege big-time on many of its commitments, breaking its health, pensions and other promises on a huge scale. The social and economic consequences don’t bear thinking about. And of course there is the very real danger that even these draconian measures will not be enough: that the government will lose all control of its finances and end up printing money to pay off its debts, so leading to hyperinflation and economic collapse.
Make no mistake about it: the country is bankrupt."
http://www.cobdencen
tre.org/2010/08/the-
uk-is-broke/
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
5:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Gordon Brown and Ed Balls ignored warnings over the profligacy of their spending plans and the damaging impact of key tax policies, leaked documents disclose.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/politics
/labour/8569367/Labo
ur-spending-Gordon-B
rown-and-Ed-Balls-ig
nored-warnings-and-w
asted-billions.html
And dont forget Liam Byrne's note as outgoing Chief Secretary of the Treasury to the new incimbent David Laws: "Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left"
southy
says...
5:25pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_Ok before any cuts should be made or ordered to made, the Government should look at who is cheating the system the most, And that comes down to the Super Rich owning £120 Billion per each year and this has been on going now for the last 25 years.
together wrote:
Southy,
If there was an infinite amount of money, it would be lovely to pay everyone more, even what they thought they were worth (which would always be going up)
However, there is not unlimited money, and sadly, the last governement were spending it like it was.
That means not only do we have to be able to pay ongoing wages of all the public sector workers, but we have to pay off all the interest on the government debt taken out to fund the last ten years of overspend.
As with people's household budget, the government has to cut its cloth to fit the revenues they make.
This country simply does not have the money to keep paying so many public sector workers so much money. The time has come for a reckoning, and jobs will be lost, and pay and conditions will be cut.
If the government does not do this, the situation will get worse, then the IMF will come in and do it with bells on.
If that means some services are cut, or not as good, and some people who have spent all their very good wages and then some are going to feel the pinch, well sorry, that is life.
We are lucky to be living in a country where there is a safety net, and people should not in the main be homeless or starving on the streets. That is right and proper if we can afford it.
What we cannot afford as a country is to pay public sector workers through the nose with borrowed money so they can flush it down the sink on anything from new cars, sky tv, new trainers, spray tans, and bejazzling!
Sorry, no bin man should be on over £17.5k when there are QUALIFIED private sector workers earning less and having to pay their wages through excessive council taxes.
Just colletting this is a lot more than the government is saying that we should save, but its not saving any money at all in reality, all its doing is moving the National Debt from point A to point B, making cuts is not the answer, it force people to start claiming some type of benefit.
Every body in the England should be saying no to any cuts, not with out claiming what is owed at the top first where there is less people it will effect, and would be cheaper to collett from.
Poeple living in the lower end of the council tax bands are paying more per sq mt than those at the top end in living space, how about if we say so much living space is free to each person and any more than that your pay extra for each sq mt you take up more on top of what is free, Can you see the Rich allowing that to happen. they would end up having to start paying there way in life, instead of getting the poor to pay for them.
southy
says...
5:36pm Mon 13 Jun 11
together
Before reading any quotes like that, you should realise when and where this all started from, it stated in the 80's and the asset stripping of the country wealth, and taken it away from the majority to give to the few, and to compound it even more the removal of banking restrictions done by the same goverment, thats why the super rich is getting away with not paying the full taxes in a turn of £120 Billion each year, collet this and the National Debt would be gone in 10 years with some left over.
Professor Kevin Dowd also said one the biggest mistake Britian made was in 1979 with the Tory Party changing a system that was slowly release the UK out of debt, and that system was to change policy to the Neo-Nationalism and Neo-Liberism, its a known system that do not work it was tryed in the 1900 to 1945.
youngalbie
says...
5:49pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Datarater
says...
5:56pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy
says...
6:00pm Mon 13 Jun 11
youngalbie wrote:Have you seen that building, I got a small look at it today and its looks like an Earthquake zone the way the building has been designed.
if this country is going broke why is this goverment still insisting on giving overseas aid.shouldn,t they be investing that money into our own country to get it back on its feet.and why is this council cutting wages while it still wants to build musuem for ship sank over 100years ago and borrowing money from another council to help!!!!
They are still paying aid to other countrys because this country is not really broke, We have a debt that the Super Rich created and expects the poor to pay.
Its a Capitalist World.
SpittingMoreFire
says...
6:04pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy wrote:Southy! hobnobbing with Mr Smith eh! You are a lucky man.
OSPREYSAINT wrote:There one point you need to know, the comments on here Do Not Reflect the majority of people in Southampton, the best it might achive is about 50-50 is they are lucky, but I think its more 60-40 in support of the strikers.
George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
Those of you who believe there is no Public support for the Council Workers, I personally colletted 24 names and money in support for the Council workers. And that was just me, there was another 11 people doing the same that I counted, at the Demo/Rally march in southampton today.
Echo Reporter Matt Smith who was there, can back that up I did show him what I personally had colletted, and my numbers was low, because I was at the back, the best was the team up at the front, they was clearing a 100 signatures each.
.
Did he do a bit of filming? I see the Len Mckluskey visit is the last vid.
.
I gave up playing these vids a while ago because Echo's fixed it so I can't mute the sound on the ads. But I bet it's not as funny as another one I've seen!
.
Also I agree with you on using site comments as a measure of opinion. OSPREYSAINT makes an excellent response on this issue.
.
The Conservative councillors are taking a new plan of action and now exploit social networking to their disadvantage, spewing forth rubbish notions through the implementation of Facebook.
.
I would like to think that the council's conservative councillors have much more important things to get on with in serving the city other than poking each-other in the Facebook eye, only to go shooting themselves further in the foot.
.
Like commit themselves to resolving this dispute in that "spirit of co-operation" they do so talk of.
.
I would like know how they have added an extra £5million onto the average savings per annum through these t&c changes.
.
Their documentation shows that these cooperate savings will equate to an average £7m pa, not £12m. Am I missing something? Someone please help me!
.
This apparent shortfall certainly can't be offset by the £5million bumper bailout that has been supplied by Crawley Borough Council either...
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
6:16pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Of course taxes have got to be applicable to the wealthy, but you are never going to fund a national system by over-penalising the top few % who are the wealthiest, as they have the resources to go and live in another country at the drop of a hat.
The maths requires that the bulk of the people pay the bulk of the taxes, which means average workers on average wages.
Its unrealistic to expect anything different.
It also avoids the point that people shouldnt be taking home up to twice or more of what a job is worth, when the wages are paid for by the taxpayer.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
6:23pm Mon 13 Jun 11
PortswoodJohn
says...
6:31pm Mon 13 Jun 11
GoodnessGraciousMe wrote:If there isn't the money, then that means the council can't provide services. Taking pay cuts means more in the future, and eventually council workings will get a bowl of rice and some chopsticks for a days work. I fully support the action, but I think the workers may need to go a lot further.
Agreed. There just isn't the money there - where do they think it's going to magically appear from? I took a £5K pay cut at the start of the recession too. It's hard and I don't like it but if I want a job I just have to put up and shut up............ About time they realised what those of us in the real world have to put up with.
Condor Man
says...
6:32pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy
says...
6:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_Put those banking restictions back into play, and it would not matter where they moved to, they would end up paying the tax that Thatcher government made it so easy for them to get away with, Thatcher her self is one of those in that top braket that robs this Country of Millions of unpaid Taxes, and yet we have to pay for her to have Sercurity that cost the tax payers 3 1/3 million a year.
together wrote:
southy,
Of course taxes have got to be applicable to the wealthy, but you are never going to fund a national system by over-penalising the top few % who are the wealthiest, as they have the resources to go and live in another country at the drop of a hat.
The maths requires that the bulk of the people pay the bulk of the taxes, which means average workers on average wages.
Its unrealistic to expect anything different.
It also avoids the point that people shouldnt be taking home up to twice or more of what a job is worth, when the wages are paid for by the taxpayer.
And if they go its no lost to us, only a gain we will not have to pay for them to be living here.
You only need to go back to 1979 and before when the Tax system work well and every one paid a fair share against to what they earned in taxes.
The Average Worker is not on an Average Wage they are on below the Average Wage.
the Rates sytem should be reinterduce, where it covered the amount of space you covered has living space that you want.
Think about it, one home could be taken up the room of two homes, so you lose out in Tax colletted at lest for 1/2 a home tax, and the bigger the home the more you get away with.
mallygp
says...
6:44pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southy
says...
6:48pm Mon 13 Jun 11
SpittingMoreFire wrote:Yes I have seen there web site and all so notice that they took down the comments that told the truth about the Tory party.
southy wrote:Southy! hobnobbing with Mr Smith eh! You are a lucky man.
OSPREYSAINT wrote:There one point you need to know, the comments on here Do Not Reflect the majority of people in Southampton, the best it might achive is about 50-50 is they are lucky, but I think its more 60-40 in support of the strikers.
George4th wrote:True. as I wasn't on here earlier! It is not a very accurate guideline, some have found that their views aren't being considered by the those with a strong bias, so feel it isn't worth posting, can't persuade you to reconsider the Unions view from wider perspective can I?
OSPREYSAINT wrote:My point was that there were more comments against the dispute than for the dispute - by a long way.George4th wrote: The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......No sir the comments on here are by people who have there own valid views on both sides of the argument, we cannot agree, but that doesn't mean that we are right or wrong. Just like the dispute at the moment we cannot see any compromise, but if it is to be resolved both sides will have to concede some points, it is not a case of losing face, just finding grounds for agreement, hopefully the answer is the ACAS talks, but the sooner the matter is sorted the better.
Those of you who believe there is no Public support for the Council Workers, I personally colletted 24 names and money in support for the Council workers. And that was just me, there was another 11 people doing the same that I counted, at the Demo/Rally march in southampton today.
Echo Reporter Matt Smith who was there, can back that up I did show him what I personally had colletted, and my numbers was low, because I was at the back, the best was the team up at the front, they was clearing a 100 signatures each.
.
Did he do a bit of filming? I see the Len Mckluskey visit is the last vid.
.
I gave up playing these vids a while ago because Echo's fixed it so I can't mute the sound on the ads. But I bet it's not as funny as another one I've seen!
.
Also I agree with you on using site comments as a measure of opinion. OSPREYSAINT makes an excellent response on this issue.
.
The Conservative councillors are taking a new plan of action and now exploit social networking to their disadvantage, spewing forth rubbish notions through the implementation of Facebook.
.
I would like to think that the council's conservative councillors have much more important things to get on with in serving the city other than poking each-other in the Facebook eye, only to go shooting themselves further in the foot.
.
Like commit themselves to resolving this dispute in that "spirit of co-operation" they do so talk of.
.
I would like know how they have added an extra £5million onto the average savings per annum through these t&c changes.
.
Their documentation shows that these cooperate savings will equate to an average £7m pa, not £12m. Am I missing something? Someone please help me!
.
This apparent shortfall certainly can't be offset by the £5million bumper bailout that has been supplied by Crawley Borough Council either...
Royston Smith and his Tory party have one hell of a headache coming, can't say what it is now but it sure will hit the news nationally when it happens.
dango
says...
6:56pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA
says...
7:01pm Mon 13 Jun 11
saintchez
says...
7:02pm Mon 13 Jun 11
If its only those who earn more than 17.5k pa that have been asked to take a 5% paycut it will still mean that they are earning considerably more than most 'unskilled' workers out there.
With uneployment so high I am sure the Council will have absolutely no problems recruiting new staff who will be happy just to have a job and not prance about waving flags and blowing whistles at the request of some interfering union who clearly have no interest in whats best for our city. Just my opinion, to which I am intitled.
Georgem
says...
7:08pm Mon 13 Jun 11
TheJeepster
says...
7:41pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Filthy Streets, No Public Toilets and Arguments over Feudal Taxes.
Which century am I in?
All in it together?
The English?
No.
You would all rather wallow in the sh**te of your own making, peddling your one eyed bull and arguing amongst yourselves than tackle the single major cause for all this, the greed of the "filthy" rich and the unfair distribution of wealth within your own country, amongst your own people.
If you are able to recognise the problem between the haves and have nots on the global stage, as so many it seems are, why then is it so hard to accept the situation is just the same here and why do you tolerate it?
What's happening here in Southampton is just one tiny part of a much bigger picture.
Open your eyes and cast your gaze further afield, if you able to see beyond the piles of rubbish on your streets.
There are many in your midst who are doing quite well out of all this public unrest but they are not for sharing.
Your government, all governments around the globe could legislate to make the wealthy share, could legislate to control the prices of all our essential utilities and services and could legislate to grow enough food to feed the entire planet.
They don't, you pay too much for your basics and whilst you have a huge foreign aid budget that you can hardly afford, others still starve.
You all suffer, relevant to where you live in some way or another and yet, you begrudge your fellows a decent living, when the truth is...you are all just paupers in the grand scheme of things.
I would suggest that as you are all of the same social standing, you might try pulling together to demand better from those who can afford more and those you elect to fight your corner when it comes to making the wealthy pay their fair share.
Right now, all your so called elected representatives (I won't call them leaders because they are not) are merely standing by whilst you all lose your standards of living and jobs, shortly to be followed by your homes and anything else of value and when this cycle reaches its natural conclusion...guess who will have picked up all the cheap available assets for next to nothing?
Amazing how many have reverted to type...now that the money has run out!
The fact is...you are all to blame to some degree for where you are now..its just that those who are most to blame are the ones being least held to account.
Could it be you are just too timid to do anything really constructive about such obvious social injustices?
Easier to strike, than tackle the real issues, just as it is easier to condemn those who strike than it is to meld together to fight the bigger fight, which seems to be blowing past you all like the rubbish spilling from your bursting wheelie bins.
Like I said...what a laughably wretched lot you are!
You couldn't pull together long enough to pull a Christmas Cracker!
Rob444
says...
7:45pm Mon 13 Jun 11
UTS wrote:So you presumably have sympathy with this politically biased council?
No sympathy with these politically biased unions. Start sacking these people off and get in private companies to run stuff.
dango
says...
7:50pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Rob444
says...
7:51pm Mon 13 Jun 11
kickingkay wrote:This just shows the sacrifice that the workers are prepared to make to uphold their principles.
Please correct me if I am wrong!
Surely those on strike are loosing more money by being on strike, therefore not being paid, than they would have by accepting a pay cut?
Can the same be said for the rich?
southy
says...
7:57pm Mon 13 Jun 11
dango wrote:If you can't learn from errors made in the pass, and don't correct those errors in the pass, then it will only get worse, and thats what it has been doing for the last 30 years slowly getting worse.
Fliipin 'eck is Southy STILL bringing up Thatcher! It's high time the dusties got their a*&es back to work IMHO. 63% have signed the new aggreements - that's near as damnit 2/3rds. Where is the unions beloved value called democracy now? I thought if the majority were happy then that would be it, but no, the obviously non democratic thinking union leaders are holding the majority back.
Wrong 63% have not signed the new contracts be lucky if even 3% have done so to date, Check with Unite and Unsion. The only ones that have signed it are those in mid-Managerment who are not going to be effected in wages.
It takes 72% or more for the Union members to call a strike, should at any time it falls below that 72% then the strike has to be called off, That is the Law (one of Thatcher Anti-Union Laws of the 80's and is still in place today).
nedscrumpo
says...
8:04pm Mon 13 Jun 11
TheJeepster
says...
8:10pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Cause and effect.
What caused the current situation was hardly local and whilst the effect may seem quite close to home...the overall solutions are not.
Throwing one stone into the howling gale won't help pave the way to recovery.
Kid yourself all you like Little Englander...like I said, you are just a pauper anyway!
I fear you are not clever enough to grasp what I am getting at!
ac1947
says...
8:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11
DONT GIVE UP..
Take no notice of the 'union bashers'.
Most people only worry or care about themselves, and its only when they get hard done by do they realise what side of the fence they should be standing.
Be assured it will be worthwhil.
KEEP GOING
Brite Spark
says...
8:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11
TheJeepster
says...
8:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11
There are reasons why it cannot be sold.
Try finding out why before commenting.
The Tories tried to sell the art in the 80's and found it could not be sold.
They then recently employed some solicitors at great cost only to be told that the art cannot be sold.
It seems they thought it could be sold and apparently it appears they signed contracts to build a new museum...The Titanic Carbuncle, which could have been self funded if the art had been sold.
But the art could not be sold and having wasted money on solicitors and employing contractors before finalising a deal for the art that could not be sold, it now seems the Tories who never borrow money to fund council projects have now "secretly" borrowed five million quid from their pals at Crawley...to spend on what I wonder?
Anyway...The Art cannot be sold.
CLEAR ENOUGH?
a and e
says...
8:26pm Mon 13 Jun 11
dango
says...
8:28pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Rob444
says...
8:30pm Mon 13 Jun 11
dango wrote:Many people would doubtless like the damage done by Thatcher's lot to be forgotten. Others would like the holocaust and Nazis to be forgotten.
Fliipin 'eck is Southy STILL bringing up Thatcher! It's high time the dusties got their a*&es back to work IMHO. 63% have signed the new aggreements - that's near as damnit 2/3rds. Where is the unions beloved value called democracy now? I thought if the majority were happy then that would be it, but no, the obviously non democratic thinking union leaders are holding the majority back.
Unfortunately, Thatcher's doctrine caused a great deal of damage to Britain and its people. One, probably unintentional, side effect affected young people. Due to the unemployment caused, many teenaged, single young women who felt they had very little self-worth, decided to have babies. That made them feel wanted and gave them some self-esteem. This became ingrained into some sections of society, and is still with us.
Yes, Thatcher should not be forgotten. True, she made many millionaires, but also helped to ruin many working class people's lives.
UTS
says...
8:34pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Rob444 wrote:The financial situation is well known and there is no alternative. Take a minor hit or lose your job. Its a no brainer.
UTS wrote:So you presumably have sympathy with this politically biased council?
No sympathy with these politically biased unions. Start sacking these people off and get in private companies to run stuff.
UTS
says...
8:37pm Mon 13 Jun 11
ac1947 wrote:.....in the wind im afraid as the financial situation created by labour and Gordon Brown in particular. Means that these measures are a must with no alternative.
To the strikers/union members of S.C.C
DONT GIVE UP..
Take no notice of the 'union bashers'.
Most people only worry or care about themselves, and its only when they get hard done by do they realise what side of the fence they should be standing.
Be assured it will be worthwhil.
KEEP GOING
So do give up as you have next to no support.
UTS
says...
8:41pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Who gives a toss about a load of northerners anyway.
UTS
says...
8:41pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Who gives a toss about a load of northerners anyway.
Torchie1
says...
8:45pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Rob444 wrote:Over here the people constantly fear the return of communism and make sure that the tyrants of those dark days are never forgotten. Having lived in both countries I can definitely say that mild inconvenience and upset in the UK was nothing like the secret police, the political murders and disappearances that the Czech people experienced along with other populations trapped behind the old Iron Curtain. The siren voices of Tusc are the same as those of Lenin and Trotsky but they quickly made their positions permanent by banning any form of elections. The same democratic procedure in the UK seems to block these extremists whether they call themselves Communists. Militant Tendency or Tusc.
dango wrote:Many people would doubtless like the damage done by Thatcher's lot to be forgotten. Others would like the holocaust and Nazis to be forgotten.
Fliipin 'eck is Southy STILL bringing up Thatcher! It's high time the dusties got their a*&es back to work IMHO. 63% have signed the new aggreements - that's near as damnit 2/3rds. Where is the unions beloved value called democracy now? I thought if the majority were happy then that would be it, but no, the obviously non democratic thinking union leaders are holding the majority back.
Unfortunately, Thatcher's doctrine caused a great deal of damage to Britain and its people. One, probably unintentional, side effect affected young people. Due to the unemployment caused, many teenaged, single young women who felt they had very little self-worth, decided to have babies. That made them feel wanted and gave them some self-esteem. This became ingrained into some sections of society, and is still with us.
Yes, Thatcher should not be forgotten. True, she made many millionaires, but also helped to ruin many working class people's lives.
Just A Voice
says...
9:00pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Who signed off pay rises to council wokrers? The Council
Who offered increments to all council workers? The Council
Workers accepted contracts of employment in good faith, with terms and conditions set by the council not the union, not the workers but the council.
Not once did you see the likes of Royston Smith bleating all over the media about not being able to afford this, that and the other, they offered the contracts they should honour them.
If the boot was on the other foot and the workers failed to honour their contracts would they would be sacked.
The workers are not to blame for this mess, the council is.
Royston Smith is supposedly a clever man, however by threatening the sack to all council workers (unless they his contract) in July he shows himself to be exactly what he is.
A little man, suffering from little man syndrome, he is also a power crazy bully who thinks nothing of anyone other then himself.
Ant Smoking MP
says...
9:02pm Mon 13 Jun 11
.
http://www.thisisham
pshire.net/news/9054
388.Drivers_spend_71
_hours_a_year_in_Sou
thampton_traffic_jam
s/
.
But Council workers have to take a pay cut. But at least they can turn up to work earlier to pick up less wages.
.
Sorted!!
loosehead
says...
9:11pm Mon 13 Jun 11
TheJeepster
says...
9:17pm Mon 13 Jun 11
What I am talking about is people on all sides of this argument realising that to be in it together we have to unite together.
The howling gale is the onslaught of the wealthy and their dogmatic assault on our public services, jobs and way of life.
The single stone cast by one union that leaves everyone else off side will not help in the long run, though I fully understand why they are striking, I feel they need to look at the bigger picture, as do the fervent opponents of the strike.
The two have too Unite, not fight!
The wealthy are running us all into the ground and while we squabble amongst ourselves, we lose and they feast on the carcass of rampant capitalism leaving us with only the crumbs from their table.
It has happened before and within living memory, so don't think it won't or cannot happen again.
When the stock market collapsed in the 1930's the powers that were and the money men of the time let the worlds major economies fail, deliberately.
Services were run down to nothing, private businesses were offered little support by discredited banks, people were put out of work in their droves and then tipped out of their homes at the first opportunity and the wealthy enjoyed cheap pickings at everyone else's expense.
Does that sound familiar?
So you continue to think local and see where you are in a year or two's time.
As for insults, when is a fact an insult?
We are at the end of a cycle of Rampant Capitalism which has effectively gone bust, not just for a little while but for good!
Following this claw-back period where the wealthy gorge on what's left and we scrap over even less... there will follow a period of Caring Capitalism to get everyone back into work and homed again...but in much reduced circumstances, which believe it or not, many will be only too glad to accept!
You doubt this?
The evidence is all around you and almost every Civic Centre exists today primarily because their was a need to get people back to work, if the depression of the thirties was ever to end.
Jobs were actually created, prices controlled and ordinary men and women earned and paid their way again.
What I would like to know is why we are going to have to go through so much pain only to arrive at a similar point sometime down the road in this time of economic disaster?
I do not think that we do have to just roll over and accept our lot because our so called betters can think of no other way than to tear everything down.
I feel it is within the grasp of the powers that be to sort it now but they refuse too because they will not gain as much as they would if they just let it all slide and let us all suffer as a consequence of the slide.
If all your'e getting from this leaves you pis***g in the wind, then I hope you have plenty of clean trousers to change into.
Me, I watch with amusement and will continue to insult.
Hopefully it will catch the attention and wake a few people up!
Rob444
says...
9:19pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Torchie1 wrote:Totally agree with you. However, ALL political extremism is bad, whether left or right wing.
Rob444 wrote:Over here the people constantly fear the return of communism and make sure that the tyrants of those dark days are never forgotten. Having lived in both countries I can definitely say that mild inconvenience and upset in the UK was nothing like the secret police, the political murders and disappearances that the Czech people experienced along with other populations trapped behind the old Iron Curtain. The siren voices of Tusc are the same as those of Lenin and Trotsky but they quickly made their positions permanent by banning any form of elections. The same democratic procedure in the UK seems to block these extremists whether they call themselves Communists. Militant Tendency or Tusc.
dango wrote:Many people would doubtless like the damage done by Thatcher's lot to be forgotten. Others would like the holocaust and Nazis to be forgotten.
Fliipin 'eck is Southy STILL bringing up Thatcher! It's high time the dusties got their a*&es back to work IMHO. 63% have signed the new aggreements - that's near as damnit 2/3rds. Where is the unions beloved value called democracy now? I thought if the majority were happy then that would be it, but no, the obviously non democratic thinking union leaders are holding the majority back.
Unfortunately, Thatcher's doctrine caused a great deal of damage to Britain and its people. One, probably unintentional, side effect affected young people. Due to the unemployment caused, many teenaged, single young women who felt they had very little self-worth, decided to have babies. That made them feel wanted and gave them some self-esteem. This became ingrained into some sections of society, and is still with us.
Yes, Thatcher should not be forgotten. True, she made many millionaires, but also helped to ruin many working class people's lives.
Leicestersaint
says...
9:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead
says...
9:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11
SpittingMoreFire wrote:Here we go again! the council has to save £25million this financial year so they suspend the sackings the union stops strikes (if they stop) then carry on with no input into the talks to save this money,then the council issue 90day notices & by the time these contracts are signed or these people are sacked even more than was announced would have to go to cover the amounts spent on higher pay than would have been over that period that's why the council won't suspend the notices as they are trying to keep job losses to a minimum.if the unions wanted this they would put forwards proposals that the council could accept but up to know they've put forward diddle squat.or didn't you know that ?
OH YUCK!
.
This must be biased reporting at its best, its most lavish!
.
And seven paragraphs of comment verses two and a sentence! For Shame.
.
This has to be the most extensive comment from Southampton City Council I have EVER seen! Talk about Royston and his "noisy news"!
.
Completely fails to report that the unions say suspension of dismissal notices ahead of these talks will halt the industrial action.
.
And yet, here Jeremy harps on that the unions should halt the industrial action. He forgets the unions have given him the answer.
.
Surely he is not so out of touch as Alistair Neill seems to be? No, Jeremy would rather inflict more misery on the city.
.
Here is his "spirit of co-operation" for the sake of Southampton he talks of.
.
And where is comment from the leader of the council? Has he left his city in crisis yet again?
.
Strange there's no video news here in support of these hundreds of workers as proof. Would have thought the Echo would revel in that, perhaps they are still cutting it together: large gaps in the crowd, emphasising stragglers in the march, etc.
.
(It's going to take me all day to read through all these comments...!)
Skinner 1941
says...
9:45pm Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead wrote:loosemouth, you DARE to say here we go again. Cuts of other budgets could of been made that would of saved the people who have been made redundant and the pay cuts - you are a true inorgamus.
SpittingMoreFire wrote: OH YUCK! . This must be biased reporting at its best, its most lavish! . And seven paragraphs of comment verses two and a sentence! For Shame. . This has to be the most extensive comment from Southampton City Council I have EVER seen! Talk about Royston and his "noisy news"! . Completely fails to report that the unions say suspension of dismissal notices ahead of these talks will halt the industrial action. . And yet, here Jeremy harps on that the unions should halt the industrial action. He forgets the unions have given him the answer. . Surely he is not so out of touch as Alistair Neill seems to be? No, Jeremy would rather inflict more misery on the city. . Here is his "spirit of co-operation" for the sake of Southampton he talks of. . And where is comment from the leader of the council? Has he left his city in crisis yet again? . Strange there's no video news here in support of these hundreds of workers as proof. Would have thought the Echo would revel in that, perhaps they are still cutting it together: large gaps in the crowd, emphasising stragglers in the march, etc. . (It's going to take me all day to read through all these comments...!)Here we go again! the council has to save £25million this financial year so they suspend the sackings the union stops strikes (if they stop) then carry on with no input into the talks to save this money,then the council issue 90day notices & by the time these contracts are signed or these people are sacked even more than was announced would have to go to cover the amounts spent on higher pay than would have been over that period that's why the council won't suspend the notices as they are trying to keep job losses to a minimum.if the unions wanted this they would put forwards proposals that the council could accept but up to know they've put forward diddle squat.or didn't you know that ?
Magic75
says...
9:46pm Mon 13 Jun 11
What these people need to realise is that unemployment is at an all time high and they should consider themselves lucky to even have a job at all.
Cuts are necessary, either learn to accept them or look for another job. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would fill the positions!
MGRA
says...
9:48pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Ant Smoking MP
says...
9:52pm Mon 13 Jun 11
.
Drivers spend 71 hours a year in Southampton traffic jams
11:00am Saturday 28th May 2011
Photograph of the Author
By Tara Russell » News Reporter
WE spend three days a year in a road jam, stressed, late and bursting with road rage – that is the miserable experience of many Southampton drivers.
And now it has been revealed the city’s long-suffering motorists are cooped up in their cars for THREE whole days each year thanks to roadworks.
Lane closures on the M27, cones in Coxford, and mayhem on Millbrook Road have all contributed to the congestion nightmare that has left commuters stuck in jams for 71 hours every year, according to a report by More Th>n.
The situation is so bad that the car insurers have branded Southampton one of the UK’s roadwork hotspots.
It is a view shared by many of the city’s road users.
Frustrated St Denys resident Julie Rouse, an NHS community worker, told the Daily Echo it takes her 45 minutes to travel just three miles.
And taxi driver Perry McMillan, who heads the Southampton cab section of Unite, said drivers have even resorted to mastering the back roads to escape the road repairs.
He said: “They are incredibly frustrating and I second that report. We certainly have our fair share of roadworks here compared to elsewhere in the UK and as taxi drivers you can imagine how much time we spend going past all those cones.”
But for Nick Farthing, chair of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce’s planning and transport committee, the roadworks are inconvenient but “necessary to meet today’s business demands.” He added: “People would soon complain if potholes were left unrepaired and other vital work was neglected.”
City council Leader Cllr Royston Smith said the council is investing a record £100m in the city network over the next ten years.
It has hired highway experts Balfour Beatty to make sure the roads are fixed faster and better, in a “more co-ordinated way with the utility companies”. He added: “No road can last forever. We will continue to mitigate the disruption of these roadworks on our residents and we will continue to invest in our roads so residents benefit from better, quicker roads for years to come.”
.
Hey everyone. Where is Royston going to get the £100 million from? I thought we were broke?
MGRA
says...
10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Ant Smoking MP wrote:you clearly have not got a clue how a council prepares its budget have you ?
From the Echo 28th May.
.
Drivers spend 71 hours a year in Southampton traffic jams
11:00am Saturday 28th May 2011
Photograph of the Author
By Tara Russell » News Reporter
WE spend three days a year in a road jam, stressed, late and bursting with road rage – that is the miserable experience of many Southampton drivers.
And now it has been revealed the city’s long-suffering motorists are cooped up in their cars for THREE whole days each year thanks to roadworks.
Lane closures on the M27, cones in Coxford, and mayhem on Millbrook Road have all contributed to the congestion nightmare that has left commuters stuck in jams for 71 hours every year, according to a report by More Th>n.
The situation is so bad that the car insurers have branded Southampton one of the UK’s roadwork hotspots.
It is a view shared by many of the city’s road users.
Frustrated St Denys resident Julie Rouse, an NHS community worker, told the Daily Echo it takes her 45 minutes to travel just three miles.
And taxi driver Perry McMillan, who heads the Southampton cab section of Unite, said drivers have even resorted to mastering the back roads to escape the road repairs.
He said: “They are incredibly frustrating and I second that report. We certainly have our fair share of roadworks here compared to elsewhere in the UK and as taxi drivers you can imagine how much time we spend going past all those cones.”
But for Nick Farthing, chair of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce’s planning and transport committee, the roadworks are inconvenient but “necessary to meet today’s business demands.” He added: “People would soon complain if potholes were left unrepaired and other vital work was neglected.”
City council Leader Cllr Royston Smith said the council is investing a record £100m in the city network over the next ten years.
It has hired highway experts Balfour Beatty to make sure the roads are fixed faster and better, in a “more co-ordinated way with the utility companies”. He added: “No road can last forever. We will continue to mitigate the disruption of these roadworks on our residents and we will continue to invest in our roads so residents benefit from better, quicker roads for years to come.”
.
Hey everyone. Where is Royston going to get the £100 million from? I thought we were broke?
Ant Smoking MP
says...
10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:See above post I made. Apparently there is £100 million in Southampton for repairing roads, not saving care homes, not paying council workers but roads. Will that help stop us from being broke?
"there is no money left, we spent it all" this note was left in the treasury by a labour minister for the incoming government to read. What part of this is so hard to understand. Money does not grow on trees ( unless you are southy ).
Ant Smoking MP
says...
10:10pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:Tell me then. I clearly havent. Shouldnt we be cancelling some of this? Why not spend £50 million?
Ant Smoking MP wrote:you clearly have not got a clue how a council prepares its budget have you ?
From the Echo 28th May.
.
Drivers spend 71 hours a year in Southampton traffic jams
11:00am Saturday 28th May 2011
Photograph of the Author
By Tara Russell » News Reporter
WE spend three days a year in a road jam, stressed, late and bursting with road rage – that is the miserable experience of many Southampton drivers.
And now it has been revealed the city’s long-suffering motorists are cooped up in their cars for THREE whole days each year thanks to roadworks.
Lane closures on the M27, cones in Coxford, and mayhem on Millbrook Road have all contributed to the congestion nightmare that has left commuters stuck in jams for 71 hours every year, according to a report by More Th>n.
The situation is so bad that the car insurers have branded Southampton one of the UK’s roadwork hotspots.
It is a view shared by many of the city’s road users.
Frustrated St Denys resident Julie Rouse, an NHS community worker, told the Daily Echo it takes her 45 minutes to travel just three miles.
And taxi driver Perry McMillan, who heads the Southampton cab section of Unite, said drivers have even resorted to mastering the back roads to escape the road repairs.
He said: “They are incredibly frustrating and I second that report. We certainly have our fair share of roadworks here compared to elsewhere in the UK and as taxi drivers you can imagine how much time we spend going past all those cones.”
But for Nick Farthing, chair of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce’s planning and transport committee, the roadworks are inconvenient but “necessary to meet today’s business demands.” He added: “People would soon complain if potholes were left unrepaired and other vital work was neglected.”
City council Leader Cllr Royston Smith said the council is investing a record £100m in the city network over the next ten years.
It has hired highway experts Balfour Beatty to make sure the roads are fixed faster and better, in a “more co-ordinated way with the utility companies”. He added: “No road can last forever. We will continue to mitigate the disruption of these roadworks on our residents and we will continue to invest in our roads so residents benefit from better, quicker roads for years to come.”
.
Hey everyone. Where is Royston going to get the £100 million from? I thought we were broke?
Just A Voice
says...
10:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11
As my old dad used to say
"Charity begins at home"
This country is skint, but this Government can look after others first, don't get me wrong, if we had it I would gladly give it, but we don't have it so we shouldn't give it.
southy
says...
10:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11
loosehead wrote:The Unions did put forward counter proposals, but totally refused by the Council, and the Unions said lets bring ACAS that to was refuse by the Council, The unions put forward another proposals and again totally refused by the council and again ask for ACAS to be involved and again the Council refused, So the Unions put in another proposals and again was refused by the Council, and again the Union ask for ACAS to be involved and that was turned down again, The Strikes started, again the Unions put forward a proposals that was refused, so ACAS was ask for yet again, but this time because of the strikes, The Council agreed so a date was set for May, and what did Royston Smith do, He go's on Holiday and puts back the Council ACAS Union meeting.
Did any one watch the BBC news at lunch time? on there the political reporter stated that another council had proposed the same measures as Southampton City Council but in that case the union sat down put forward counter proposals & they came to an agreement where they didn't have to have pay cuts & redundancies but in Southampton no matter what proposals the council put forward the union rejects them the council have actually said to the unions work with us & tell us your ideas for covering this £65million deficit?reply from the unions was it's not down to us to get you out of this mess so sort it.How's this the unions working for their members? soon the date will be here when either they sign or are out of work so how does their attitude help these people?you go on about Tory scum & tories against the public sector but how the hell is the union not getting involved in negotiations by not putting counter proposals forward the councils fault? a council worker was interviewed & he said"pay freeze yes.pay cuts no" does he know his union who have taken him out on strike said pay cuts yes but no pay freeze or redundancies.sounds like the members have been misinformed somewhat doesn't it!
Now how is that not bending over back wards by the Unions to get agreement with the Council, when they have refused to talk to the Unions, This Troy-Con Council wants it there way and no other way. That other Council is more willing to sit down with Unions and talk to sort things out, This council is not.
MGRA
says...
10:28pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Ant Smoking MP wrote:if you want to shrink the economy of the city then yes great idea, degrade the essential infrastructure. No we should be spending out what is necessary to maintain highways fit for purpose in a city with the commitments and potential that exists. obviously.
MGRA wrote:Tell me then. I clearly havent. Shouldnt we be cancelling some of this? Why not spend £50 million?
Ant Smoking MP wrote:you clearly have not got a clue how a council prepares its budget have you ?
From the Echo 28th May.
.
Drivers spend 71 hours a year in Southampton traffic jams
11:00am Saturday 28th May 2011
Photograph of the Author
By Tara Russell » News Reporter
WE spend three days a year in a road jam, stressed, late and bursting with road rage – that is the miserable experience of many Southampton drivers.
And now it has been revealed the city’s long-suffering motorists are cooped up in their cars for THREE whole days each year thanks to roadworks.
Lane closures on the M27, cones in Coxford, and mayhem on Millbrook Road have all contributed to the congestion nightmare that has left commuters stuck in jams for 71 hours every year, according to a report by More Th>n.
The situation is so bad that the car insurers have branded Southampton one of the UK’s roadwork hotspots.
It is a view shared by many of the city’s road users.
Frustrated St Denys resident Julie Rouse, an NHS community worker, told the Daily Echo it takes her 45 minutes to travel just three miles.
And taxi driver Perry McMillan, who heads the Southampton cab section of Unite, said drivers have even resorted to mastering the back roads to escape the road repairs.
He said: “They are incredibly frustrating and I second that report. We certainly have our fair share of roadworks here compared to elsewhere in the UK and as taxi drivers you can imagine how much time we spend going past all those cones.”
But for Nick Farthing, chair of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce’s planning and transport committee, the roadworks are inconvenient but “necessary to meet today’s business demands.” He added: “People would soon complain if potholes were left unrepaired and other vital work was neglected.”
City council Leader Cllr Royston Smith said the council is investing a record £100m in the city network over the next ten years.
It has hired highway experts Balfour Beatty to make sure the roads are fixed faster and better, in a “more co-ordinated way with the utility companies”. He added: “No road can last forever. We will continue to mitigate the disruption of these roadworks on our residents and we will continue to invest in our roads so residents benefit from better, quicker roads for years to come.”
.
Hey everyone. Where is Royston going to get the £100 million from? I thought we were broke?
Bill-B
says...
10:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11
joenice1 wrote:This is about the most stupid remark that I have heard on this action. If it weren't for unions you would be paid by company script and could only redeem it at the company store or you might have to sell the product that you make. Unions have there faults but in the end the good they do outway the bad.
Don't agree with the unions I'm afraid I took a 5 grand pay cut (private sector) and through the mess (that labour and their stupid spending) we need to save money . As SCC are voted in by the city of southampton the workers should accept it is what is needed. Unions do NOT speak for the city but the workers and therefore could not care less about the city. If Labour were in they would have to make the same cuts, simple as that. Look at what happened in the 70's when labour were in power with no money (for same reasons of being stupid). COYS
MGRA
says...
10:39pm Mon 13 Jun 11
At the moment the last is the most important. If we had not put the brakes on spending then our international credit rating would have been dropped. This means that sovereign debt becomes more expensive MUCH more expensive and it means that borrowing in any realistic way sensibly to avoid decades of austerity and debt is almost impossible. Being a non-Euro country, there will not be countries lining up to prop up a currency that many want rid of anyway and so sterling would plummet and we then may as well just go out and buy a horse and cart...... this is not a theory, its an economic fact.Our ICR is our only way out of this mess and we need to convince purchasers of sovereign debt that we are a good bet and that yields can stay sensible.
Please if you are a union member reading this , dont just think its mumbo-jumbo, read it and then read up on it a bit more, it will change the way you look at your 2.2% pay cut I promise you...
Ant Smoking MP
says...
10:55pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:Can you answer me in English please?
Ant Smoking MP wrote:if you want to shrink the economy of the city then yes great idea, degrade the essential infrastructure. No we should be spending out what is necessary to maintain highways fit for purpose in a city with the commitments and potential that exists. obviously.
MGRA wrote:Tell me then. I clearly havent. Shouldnt we be cancelling some of this? Why not spend £50 million?
Ant Smoking MP wrote:you clearly have not got a clue how a council prepares its budget have you ?
From the Echo 28th May.
.
Drivers spend 71 hours a year in Southampton traffic jams
11:00am Saturday 28th May 2011
Photograph of the Author
By Tara Russell » News Reporter
WE spend three days a year in a road jam, stressed, late and bursting with road rage – that is the miserable experience of many Southampton drivers.
And now it has been revealed the city’s long-suffering motorists are cooped up in their cars for THREE whole days each year thanks to roadworks.
Lane closures on the M27, cones in Coxford, and mayhem on Millbrook Road have all contributed to the congestion nightmare that has left commuters stuck in jams for 71 hours every year, according to a report by More Th>n.
The situation is so bad that the car insurers have branded Southampton one of the UK’s roadwork hotspots.
It is a view shared by many of the city’s road users.
Frustrated St Denys resident Julie Rouse, an NHS community worker, told the Daily Echo it takes her 45 minutes to travel just three miles.
And taxi driver Perry McMillan, who heads the Southampton cab section of Unite, said drivers have even resorted to mastering the back roads to escape the road repairs.
He said: “They are incredibly frustrating and I second that report. We certainly have our fair share of roadworks here compared to elsewhere in the UK and as taxi drivers you can imagine how much time we spend going past all those cones.”
But for Nick Farthing, chair of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce’s planning and transport committee, the roadworks are inconvenient but “necessary to meet today’s business demands.” He added: “People would soon complain if potholes were left unrepaired and other vital work was neglected.”
City council Leader Cllr Royston Smith said the council is investing a record £100m in the city network over the next ten years.
It has hired highway experts Balfour Beatty to make sure the roads are fixed faster and better, in a “more co-ordinated way with the utility companies”. He added: “No road can last forever. We will continue to mitigate the disruption of these roadworks on our residents and we will continue to invest in our roads so residents benefit from better, quicker roads for years to come.”
.
Hey everyone. Where is Royston going to get the £100 million from? I thought we were broke?
Why in detail is it necessary to spend £100million in ten years to sort out Southamptons traffic problems considering we are on the brink of bankruptcy and about to become like Greece and Ireland tomorrow? (I have been to Greece and the roads are poor, before you ask!!)
.
I asked you to explain about how a council prepares its budget. Can you reply in your next post without foaming at the mouth?
southampton guy
says...
10:59pm Mon 13 Jun 11
If this is the way the workforce try to deal with the councils lack of money they don't deserve their jobs anyway.
Unions are driven by politics not the benefit of their members.
The council should stick to their guns, we can not have a few bin men and toll collectors controlling our city.
Ant Smoking MP
says...
11:02pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southampton guy wrote:What lack of money? They have apparently £100 million to sort the traffic out in 10 years. Tell me where is the money going to come from???
Council is skint. The strikers are making that situation worse.
If this is the way the workforce try to deal with the councils lack of money they don't deserve their jobs anyway.
Unions are driven by politics not the benefit of their members.
The council should stick to their guns, we can not have a few bin men and toll collectors controlling our city.
southampton guy
says...
11:11pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Ant Smoking MP
says...
11:29pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southampton guy wrote:You tell me? They are Conservatives so they should have NO problem accounting for this, after all they are SO GOOD with money!!.
They have £100M do they, and where do you think it is sat?
So I ask again, in a time of Austerity, when we are meant to be bankrupt, and some random Labour bloke says last year that there is no money left, where has Cllr Royston Smith found £100 million to spend in ten years to sort out Southamptons traffic problems?
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:When he said there is no money left, he missed out the final line the bankers have squandered it all.
"there is no money left, we spent it all" this note was left in the treasury by a labour minister for the incoming government to read. What part of this is so hard to understand. Money does not grow on trees ( unless you are southy ).
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:47pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:That is the most depressing post I have seen on here, you obviously have no faith in Mr Cameron and his wonderful coalition government to have the ability to put the country back on a financial footing, as far as the cheap labour from Eastern Europe is concerned, judging by the exodus of many of them back to where they came from (check it out if you don't believe me), they are not so easy to come by. What is your own choice, do nothing, upskill or emigrate? I would like to upskill but I don't know how. I am not emigrating, so I guess your third option, do nothing is all that is left for me.
TheJeepster wrote:people like you have not had the penny drop... The UK economy will NEVER recover from its height. Wages for unskilled will stay low and go even lower. It will soon be cheaper to import and house labour from parts of the eastern EU than it will pay some of the current un-skilled rates. Globally we can not compete as an economy and with the "green" taxes, we are further doomed. We just have to accept this and do nothing, upskill or emigrate.
...And gutless too!
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:53pm Mon 13 Jun 11
MGRA wrote:Wrong again I think, most money is in paper form and as far as I know paper is made out of wood pulp, which comes from trees. I don't know if paper money can be made out of recycled material but it would be a start.
"there is no money left, we spent it all" this note was left in the treasury by a labour minister for the incoming government to read. What part of this is so hard to understand. Money does not grow on trees ( unless you are southy ).
Just A Voice
says...
11:54pm Mon 13 Jun 11
southampton guy wrote:In answer to your question
They have £100M do they, and where do you think it is sat?
In the council's reserve fund, don't take my word for it, go ask Royston.
Ant Smoking MP
says...
11:56pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Just A Voice wrote:Now I heard the Council have said they only have £4million on the resreve fund. Is this correct?
southampton guy wrote:In answer to your question
They have £100M do they, and where do you think it is sat?
In the council's reserve fund, don't take my word for it, go ask Royston.
OSPREYSAINT
says...
11:59pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Brite Spark wrote:Very droll, but not so brite, I guess the chaps on the bridge should be tolled off?
Bloomin Binmen they should be taken to the cleaners.
Ant Smoking MP
says...
12:00am Tue 14 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT
says...
12:15am Tue 14 Jun 11
Magic75 wrote:Ok your opinion is noted, but that must have been a first class brainwash that you had. I think you will find there are few people who want these jobs at a reducing rate of pay and degraded conditions of service, and probably wouldn't last five minutes in the job. I cannot understand the attitude, "they are lucky to have a job", what exactly does that mean? Are you lucky to have a job too? What cuts are necessary, where did you get the information from, and what will be the effect on the rest of us when they are made?
I totally disagree with the strike action and do not support it at all.
What these people need to realise is that unemployment is at an all time high and they should consider themselves lucky to even have a job at all.
Cuts are necessary, either learn to accept them or look for another job. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would fill the positions!
southampton guy
says...
12:48am Tue 14 Jun 11
These strikers have had it easy for years, at our expense.
They should be greatfull that the people of Southampton have been paying them for so long.
this strike is wrong and those loosing our council money do not deserve a job, nor do they deserve dole, they deserve nothing from us.
I believe there are plenty others who will do the job for less and give us better value for our money
southy
says...
12:49am Tue 14 Jun 11
OSPREYSAINT wrote:well close, notes are made from cotton and linnen, both plants but not trees.
MGRA wrote:Wrong again I think, most money is in paper form and as far as I know paper is made out of wood pulp, which comes from trees. I don't know if paper money can be made out of recycled material but it would be a start.
"there is no money left, we spent it all" this note was left in the treasury by a labour minister for the incoming government to read. What part of this is so hard to understand. Money does not grow on trees ( unless you are southy ).
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
1:00am Tue 14 Jun 11
Or, put another way, I only need to pop down to the recycling centre twice before then, and for that the residents get better value for money in the long term from their bin men...
Keep strong at the council! No negotiation with the strikers! No backing down.
We want value for money! When do we want it? By July 11 !
Cookiecutter
says...
4:19am Tue 14 Jun 11
Ant Smoking MP
says...
5:45am Tue 14 Jun 11
Cookiecutter wrote:Luckiliy the days when you earned £23.30 a week to empty buns are over!!
If as i read above that the lower paid under 17,000 are to receive a pay hike and those over that are to accept a pay cut. So here we go again the low paid get to pay more taxes and the rich pay less taxes. I think everyone knows that the more you earn the taxes one pays, now if your pay goes down then taxes go down too so where are these bin men suffering. In every union job ive held not one time did they actually protect either my job or my wage. In one the factory closed down! In another my pay was just 23.50 a week a far cry from today where someone emptying buns can earn over 17,500 a year.
**** slave labour that!!
townieboy
says...
6:21am Tue 14 Jun 11
fraggled
says...
8:06am Tue 14 Jun 11
S/W bank-give
cyber_fug
says...
8:06am Tue 14 Jun 11
Get back to work, get the country back on it's feet and unite against the Immigration policies - that way we might just achieve something !!!
mummsie
says...
9:31am Tue 14 Jun 11
loosehead
says...
12:28pm Tue 14 Jun 11
Skinner 1941 wrote:Skinner mouth all mighty come on then where can they cut £25million from? your unite & unison haven't come forward with any ideas & if you really want to insult people maybe you should show us all how without putting up council tax & trying to keep redundancies low & bearing in mind many things like roads Social services ,schools all have separate budgets & have to be spent on so what scrap Sure Start? come on big mouth As I have told people time & time again the situation but yet again a left winger asks the same question I think I have the right to say here we go again.Just remember these Unions bought down a Labour Government & in the left wings words allowed the Tyrant Maggie Thatcher get into power yet they still treat them as if they're there for the working people & not just their political puppet Ed Milliband.
loosehead wrote:loosemouth, you DARE to say here we go again. Cuts of other budgets could of been made that would of saved the people who have been made redundant and the pay cuts - you are a true inorgamus.
SpittingMoreFire wrote: OH YUCK! . This must be biased reporting at its best, its most lavish! . And seven paragraphs of comment verses two and a sentence! For Shame. . This has to be the most extensive comment from Southampton City Council I have EVER seen! Talk about Royston and his "noisy news"! . Completely fails to report that the unions say suspension of dismissal notices ahead of these talks will halt the industrial action. . And yet, here Jeremy harps on that the unions should halt the industrial action. He forgets the unions have given him the answer. . Surely he is not so out of touch as Alistair Neill seems to be? No, Jeremy would rather inflict more misery on the city. . Here is his "spirit of co-operation" for the sake of Southampton he talks of. . And where is comment from the leader of the council? Has he left his city in crisis yet again? . Strange there's no video news here in support of these hundreds of workers as proof. Would have thought the Echo would revel in that, perhaps they are still cutting it together: large gaps in the crowd, emphasising stragglers in the march, etc. . (It's going to take me all day to read through all these comments...!)Here we go again! the council has to save £25million this financial year so they suspend the sackings the union stops strikes (if they stop) then carry on with no input into the talks to save this money,then the council issue 90day notices & by the time these contracts are signed or these people are sacked even more than was announced would have to go to cover the amounts spent on higher pay than would have been over that period that's why the council won't suspend the notices as they are trying to keep job losses to a minimum.if the unions wanted this they would put forwards proposals that the council could accept but up to know they've put forward diddle squat.or didn't you know that ?
loosehead
says...
12:34pm Tue 14 Jun 11
southy
says...
1:08pm Tue 14 Jun 11
cyber_fug wrote:So whats changing they doing that any way moving to other country fool. And thats not Taxing them in full.
I see that dopey is still spouting off about taxing the super rich again. By doing this the "super rich" will just move on elsewhere, start up their businesses in a lower tax country where labour is cheaper, thus ensuring higher unemployment. The biggest problem here, and a point that most are missing is the non essential immigrants in the country, whether legal or illegal. £41m left the UK for Romania in the first 3 months of this year, this does not include any of the other Eastern European countries!!
Get back to work, get the country back on it's feet and unite against the Immigration policies - that way we might just achieve something !!!
And if they move to another country they can only take them selfs, all the equipment stays here and the building, so the state could take over and run that business here employing the same people, and keep the same contracts. Its called a nationalised industry.
Immigration is not the problem, the problem is the Super rich being greedy, and its people like you who are foolish enough to believe them and to be blackmailed by them.
sp1ceoflife
says...
3:31pm Tue 14 Jun 11
George4th wrote:I was on the demonstration yesterday and give my FULL support to both the unions and the strikers and also feel for those who are being faced with losing their jobs due to something completely out of their controll. It's all very well blaming them for not taking a pay cut but ask yourselves this, Why hasn't Royston Smith taken a paycut? how can this council justify spending £18 million on a museum which is completely unessassary where the money could be used more wisely? also, how the hell can this goverment justify allowing all the people who are currently seeking asylum in this country (which a large percentage is more than likely to be false claims) let them stay without processing their claims properly? These people are going to cost the economy millions!
The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......
I am in the Unite union and VERY proud to have their representation!
These strikers have been paying taxes and working hard and all they get is a load of gobshites attacking them verbally. Shame on you guys.
The CONDEM goverment and conservative council are ultimaltey a JOKE!
Take from the poor and give to the rich! Edward Heath and Maggie Thatcher all over again tut tut
cyber_fug
says...
3:48pm Tue 14 Jun 11
southy wrote:If you think that industry in the UK will go back to being Nationalised then you are going to be disappointed and bitter for the rest of your life.... it's not going to happen !!
cyber_fug wrote:So whats changing they doing that any way moving to other country fool. And thats not Taxing them in full.
I see that dopey is still spouting off about taxing the super rich again. By doing this the "super rich" will just move on elsewhere, start up their businesses in a lower tax country where labour is cheaper, thus ensuring higher unemployment. The biggest problem here, and a point that most are missing is the non essential immigrants in the country, whether legal or illegal. £41m left the UK for Romania in the first 3 months of this year, this does not include any of the other Eastern European countries!!
Get back to work, get the country back on it's feet and unite against the Immigration policies - that way we might just achieve something !!!
And if they move to another country they can only take them selfs, all the equipment stays here and the building, so the state could take over and run that business here employing the same people, and keep the same contracts. Its called a nationalised industry.
Immigration is not the problem, the problem is the Super rich being greedy, and its people like you who are foolish enough to believe them and to be blackmailed by them.
TheJeepster
says...
8:37am Wed 15 Jun 11
re you sure it won't happen?
I have four words to answer that one.
Cutbacks in Government Subsidies!
Eventually, the cutbacks will reach and affect the massive subsidies paid to run our Trains, buses, CARE HOMES!!! etc.
Over and over again many of the companies running such services have proved they incapable of doing so without massive government backing.
Do you think they will be able to survive once the cutbacks hit their businesses and what do you imagine will happen to those services?
Anyway, I can't be bothered to explain.
Work it out yourselves.
loosehead
says...
9:00am Wed 15 Jun 11
southy wrote:Southy your the fool when the company goes the equipment stays? what planet are you on? BAT shipped machinery from one country to another & then on to another it doesn't stay there what we no longer have any production here but machines worth millions can sit in a disused factory lying idle until they're decrepit & starting to rust & then we'll sell it for scrap WAKE UP MAN this machinery goes & is history to this country a bit like your politics it's a thing of the past.Unless All taxes come right down you won't see many companies coming back but did you see that under a tory/lib coalition Nissan & BMW are expanding their workforce here? the private sector stating to reduce the numbers unemployed so it looks like the government were right doesn't it?
cyber_fug wrote:So whats changing they doing that any way moving to other country fool. And thats not Taxing them in full.
I see that dopey is still spouting off about taxing the super rich again. By doing this the "super rich" will just move on elsewhere, start up their businesses in a lower tax country where labour is cheaper, thus ensuring higher unemployment. The biggest problem here, and a point that most are missing is the non essential immigrants in the country, whether legal or illegal. £41m left the UK for Romania in the first 3 months of this year, this does not include any of the other Eastern European countries!!
Get back to work, get the country back on it's feet and unite against the Immigration policies - that way we might just achieve something !!!
And if they move to another country they can only take them selfs, all the equipment stays here and the building, so the state could take over and run that business here employing the same people, and keep the same contracts. Its called a nationalised industry.
Immigration is not the problem, the problem is the Super rich being greedy, and its people like you who are foolish enough to believe them and to be blackmailed by them.
loosehead
says...
9:05am Wed 15 Jun 11
sp1ceoflife wrote:I think you'll find out the tory councillors didn't take a pay rise but Labour & Liberals did.Wait for fortnightly bin collections & half the bin men lose their jobs what are you going to say then? I supported my Union in getting you made redundant ,I'm a good member of the union?
George4th wrote:I was on the demonstration yesterday and give my FULL support to both the unions and the strikers and also feel for those who are being faced with losing their jobs due to something completely out of their controll. It's all very well blaming them for not taking a pay cut but ask yourselves this, Why hasn't Royston Smith taken a paycut? how can this council justify spending £18 million on a museum which is completely unessassary where the money could be used more wisely? also, how the hell can this goverment justify allowing all the people who are currently seeking asylum in this country (which a large percentage is more than likely to be false claims) let them stay without processing their claims properly? These people are going to cost the economy millions!
The comments on here reflect the thinking of the majority of people in Southampton. > The strikers need to ignore the over inflated egos of their Union reps and go back to work before more jobs are lost......
I am in the Unite union and VERY proud to have their representation!
These strikers have been paying taxes and working hard and all they get is a load of gobshites attacking them verbally. Shame on you guys.
The CONDEM goverment and conservative council are ultimaltey a JOKE!
Take from the poor and give to the rich! Edward Heath and Maggie Thatcher all over again tut tut
sp1ceoflife
says...
1:24pm Wed 15 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_together
says...
4:08pm Thu 16 Jun 11
Cheap bin men and weekly collections.
When do we want it? Now!
Roll on July 11th, no negotiation please, let them take the new pay conditions or take dismissal.
Ant Smoking MP
says...
10:19pm Fri 17 Jun 11
Sotonians_lets_pull_And that is a victory is it??
together wrote:
What do we want?
Cheap bin men and weekly collections.
When do we want it? Now!
Roll on July 11th, no negotiation please, let them take the new pay conditions or take dismissal.
joenice1 says...
8:09am Mon 13 Jun 11
As SCC are voted in by the city of southampton the workers should accept it is what is needed. Unions do NOT speak for the city but the workers and therefore could not care less about the city.
If Labour were in they would have to make the same cuts, simple as that.
Look at what happened in the 70's when labour were in power with no money (for same reasons of being stupid).
COYS