Wildlife blooms again in forest

Daily Echo: The pearl-bordered fritillary butterfly The pearl-bordered fritillary butterfly

A FIVE-YEAR project to transform a Hampshire woodland has seen it bloom into a wildlife haven.

The Forestry Commission is reaping the fruits of its work at the previously overgrown Whiteley Pastures, near Wickham .

The new open areas have benefited wildflowers such as wood violets, wood anemone, yellow archangel and lesser celendine.

They support butterflies such as the rare pearl-bordered fritillary, which became extinct here but returned last year.

The newly planted areas are likely to encourage nightjar to the forest, an extremely rare and protected ground-nesting bird, which can be identified at dusk when it puts on its own musical concert of “churring”

and “chirruping”. Historically the area, part of the ancient Forest of Bere, was home to one of the largest populations in Hampshire.

Once planted with non-native conifer trees, such as western hemlock, it was dark with overgrown pathways in the wood.

Now sunlight is bursting through on to the cleared forest floor, enabling birds, wildflowers, butterflies and other wildlife to re-colonise.

But the future is even brighter because thousands of native broadleaf trees such as oak, ash, sweet cherry and alder have been planted for generations to come.

Simon James, Forestry Commission beat forester for Whiteley Pastures, said: “The transformation has encouraged local people such as dog walkers who live in the area to visit the forest more regularly.

“The work over the last few years with heavy harvesting machinery can look destructive as it creates a lot of mud and mess in the short term.

“But forestry is a long term business and as the natural processes take over nature bounces back into life with abundance.”

Comments (24)

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8:56pm Wed 15 Aug 12

J.P.M says...

Yaaaaawn.

Is the news on yet?
Yaaaaawn. Is the news on yet? J.P.M
  • Score: 0

10:49pm Wed 15 Aug 12

Dragonqueen says...

Well here a yip for them, our butterflies have been on a down would trend for years, and here is some good news, there is also the purple emperor there which is one of our rarest butterflies as the only live in oak trees, so good on them. Insect can show how bad our world is if they dissappear so do we as insects are what pollenate our food plant so be proud that something is being done to stop us all from starving to death and giving nature a helping hand
Well here a yip for them, our butterflies have been on a down would trend for years, and here is some good news, there is also the purple emperor there which is one of our rarest butterflies as the only live in oak trees, so good on them. Insect can show how bad our world is if they dissappear so do we as insects are what pollenate our food plant so be proud that something is being done to stop us all from starving to death and giving nature a helping hand Dragonqueen
  • Score: 0

9:39am Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

.. yes, I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures, and well done to the Forestry Commission.

Unfortunately we will never return to the days when most woods were coppiced on a regular basis for both practical and economic reasons.

Thus it is now up to management schemes such as this to ensure the diversity of wildlife in our woods is not totally eradicated by lack of sunlight and regimented plantations of non-native conifers.

And as for the return of the Pearl-bordered Fritillary that really is great news. Such a wonderfully elegant butterfly that has had such a terribly bad time these last few decades in southern England.
.. yes, I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures, and well done to the Forestry Commission. Unfortunately we will never return to the days when most woods were coppiced on a regular basis for both practical and economic reasons. Thus it is now up to management schemes such as this to ensure the diversity of wildlife in our woods is not totally eradicated by lack of sunlight and regimented plantations of non-native conifers. And as for the return of the Pearl-bordered Fritillary that really is great news. Such a wonderfully elegant butterfly that has had such a terribly bad time these last few decades in southern England. freefinker
  • Score: 0

10:46am Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are. southy
  • Score: 0

11:21am Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
.. southy, does your ignorance know no bounds? You are TOTALLY wrong in everything you have just said.

Part of the problem the Pearl-bordered Fritillary has had in recent years is its almost total lack of mobility; thus its inability to migrate to suitably created new habitat if it is geographically too far away. Rarely will it fly more than 4 or 5 km from its place of birth. It is NOT and never has been a migratory species; it does NOT have its population boosted by immigration and it most definitely IS a true native species.

You need to look up and STUDY this link - http://www.ukbutterf
lies.co.uk/species.p
hp?species=euphrosyn
e

It would seem your knowledge of Lepidoptera is on a par with your knowledge of sparrows. Need I remind you of your inability to distinguish that the Dunnock, Prunella modularis and the Tree Sparrow, Passer montanus, that are indeed DIFFERENT species and not even in the same genus. Or your insistence that you have regularly seen Rock Sparrows in the UK, despite the records revealing just one UK sighting in Norfolk in 1981.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote].. southy, does your ignorance know no bounds? You are TOTALLY wrong in everything you have just said. Part of the problem the Pearl-bordered Fritillary has had in recent years is its almost total lack of mobility; thus its inability to migrate to suitably created new habitat if it is geographically too far away. Rarely will it fly more than 4 or 5 km from its place of birth. It is NOT and never has been a migratory species; it does NOT have its population boosted by immigration and it most definitely IS a true native species. You need to look up and STUDY this link - http://www.ukbutterf lies.co.uk/species.p hp?species=euphrosyn e It would seem your knowledge of Lepidoptera is on a par with your knowledge of sparrows. Need I remind you of your inability to distinguish that the Dunnock, Prunella modularis and the Tree Sparrow, Passer montanus, that are indeed DIFFERENT species and not even in the same genus. Or your insistence that you have regularly seen Rock Sparrows in the UK, despite the records revealing just one UK sighting in Norfolk in 1981. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:31am Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:59am Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain. southy
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage. freefinker
  • Score: 0

12:45pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly. southy
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong.

Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult.

All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year.

7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg.

Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.[/p][/quote]Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong. Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult. All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year. 7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg. Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration. freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong.

Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult.

All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year.

7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg.

Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.
Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration.
its mirgration that brings them in.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.[/p][/quote]Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong. Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult. All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year. 7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg. Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.[/p][/quote]Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration. its mirgration that brings them in. southy
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight southy
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong.

Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult.

All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year.

7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg.

Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.
Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration.
its mirgration that brings them in.
Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures.

That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation.

Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures”

Oh, and NO, NO, NO.
Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic.
Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’.
Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’.
Further proof you are yet again out of your depth.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.[/p][/quote]Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong. Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult. All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year. 7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg. Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.[/p][/quote]Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration. its mirgration that brings them in.[/p][/quote]Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures. That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation. Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures” Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic. Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’. Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’. Further proof you are yet again out of your depth. freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:47pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
.. bet you can't name 9.
Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight[/p][/quote].. bet you can't name 9. Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date. freefinker
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
.. bet you can't name 9.
Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.
Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides)
Dark Green Fritillary
(Argynnis aglaja)
Glanville Fritillary
(Melitaea cinxia)
Heath Fritillary
(Melitaea athalia)
High Brown Fritillary
(Argynnis adippe)
Marsh Fritillary
(Euphydryas aurinia)
Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria euphrosyne)
Silver-washed Fritillary
(Argynnis paphia)
Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria selene)
and the Duke of Burgundy
(Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight[/p][/quote].. bet you can't name 9. Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.[/p][/quote]Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides) Dark Green Fritillary (Argynnis aglaja) Glanville Fritillary (Melitaea cinxia) Heath Fritillary (Melitaea athalia) High Brown Fritillary (Argynnis adippe) Marsh Fritillary (Euphydryas aurinia) Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria euphrosyne) Silver-washed Fritillary (Argynnis paphia) Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria selene) and the Duke of Burgundy (Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation southy
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong.

Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult.

All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year.

7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg.

Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.
Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration.
its mirgration that brings them in.
Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures.

That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation.

Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures”

Oh, and NO, NO, NO.
Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic.
Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’.
Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’.
Further proof you are yet again out of your depth.
Mirgration you said your self now.
re-colonisation
And you can not say where these butterflys came from, and as back in late March and early April and again in mid May the wind direction and speed of wind could of brought them in as far as northern Italy.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.[/p][/quote]Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong. Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult. All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year. 7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg. Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.[/p][/quote]Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration. its mirgration that brings them in.[/p][/quote]Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures. That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation. Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures” Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic. Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’. Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’. Further proof you are yet again out of your depth.[/p][/quote]Mirgration you said your self now. re-colonisation And you can not say where these butterflys came from, and as back in late March and early April and again in mid May the wind direction and speed of wind could of brought them in as far as northern Italy. southy
  • Score: 0

3:09pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.
Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again.

The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration.

Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.
Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct.
There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground.
The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind.
Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.
RUBBISH.

There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise.

NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they?

Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.
Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else.
All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind.
Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.
Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong.

Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult.

All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year.

7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg.

Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.
Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration.
its mirgration that brings them in.
Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures.

That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation.

Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures”

Oh, and NO, NO, NO.
Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic.
Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’.
Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’.
Further proof you are yet again out of your depth.
Mirgration you said your self now.
re-colonisation
And you can not say where these butterflys came from, and as back in late March and early April and again in mid May the wind direction and speed of wind could of brought them in as far as northern Italy.
I have NOT said “migration”, have I?

Re-colonisation is NOT migration, nor is it immigration

The re-colonisation of Whiteley Pastures, as I clearly stated, was from the very nearby Botley Woods – a distance “well within their maximum dispersal range.”

The words I use have specific meaning in biology and you would be well advised to look them up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Our native fritillaries are NOT the result of immigration.

Do you ever read what I say?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Pearl-bordered Fritillary is not a real native british butterfly, like many of the Fritillary family there population numbers are boosted by the gentle warm winds coming in from France, thats why some years there is none and another year there are.[/p][/quote]Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Wrong again. The UK fritillary family consists of 8 species and NONE of them have their populations boosted by immigration. Only the very rare and non-native Queen of Spain Fritillary is known to hop the Channel very occasionally, but having got here seems to be unable to survive our winters in any of its 4 life stages.[/p][/quote]Its our cold wet winters that will kill off Fritillary butterflys, and its because that they do migrate if only by accident, is why you see them again after they became extinct. There a very good butterfly book you should read, its french book and it talks about butterflys migrations routes of Europe, and she explains how it happens, hot air thermals lift them high up and will then travel with the light wind direction and be 1000's of miles away before coming back to the ground. The Queen of Spain gets here on the Sirocco wind. Pearl-bordered fritillary you will find right into Asia as north as Finland and as south as Northern spain.[/p][/quote]RUBBISH. There is NO migration from the continent of our native fritillaries, accidental or otherwise. NONE of our 8 native species are killed off by our winters – a quite obvious statement as otherwise they would not be native, would they? Yet again you show your total ignorance on a factual subject as you shoot from the hip with a pile of unsubstantiated garbage.[/p][/quote]Native just means that been recorded here a long before, they are not ture natives, True Natives are when you only find them in the one country and no where else. All off our Fritillarys have been extinct in this country and on more than one occasion and have come back even after a few years absent, and its where they have drift back with the gentle warm winds from the Continent, We even very rare occasions get butterflys coming in from North America on the wind. Fritillaries can handle the Cold and dry winters, what they can not handle is cold wet winters the hibernation caterpillar stage will get waterlog and die, where they hiberate in the leaf litter on the ground, Fritillaries are egg to caterpillar in its first year, hiberates as a caterpillar where in the spring it will go on a mad rush to feed it self then turn into a chrysalis for about 2 to 3 weeks, then break out as a butterfly and dies soon after mating (female dies after laying the eggs), they are a 2 year life span insect, they are not like Peacocks or tortoiseshell butterflys that can hiberate a winter as a butterfly.[/p][/quote]Almost everything you have just said is totally wrong. Native means resident 365 days p.a. and able to go through all 4 life stages successfully: i.e. egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult. All our 8 native fritillaries do just this in a single year. 7 of our native species hibernate through winter as a caterpillar, the exception being the High Brown which winters as an egg. Again, ALL 8 are native, successfully survive our winters, all have a single year life cycle, they are not reinforced by immigration.[/p][/quote]Then explain why this butterfly have shown up in a place where it has been extinct for more than a year and only showed up last year, if there life cycle is only one year, and there is no mirgration. its mirgration that brings them in.[/p][/quote]Because after their most successful year for 25 years in 2011, when, due to ideal weather conditions in March and April, population numbers exploded during their May flight period, impregnated females dispersed more and further than usual and a few, a very few, found a newly created suitable egg laying habitat at Whiteley Pastures. That they were recorded in the adjacent Botley Woods in 2011 means the hop over to Whiteley was well within their maximum dispersal range and fully explains their 2012 re-colonisation. Perhaps you missed my original post when I said “I've watched with interest the work being carried out at Whitely Pastures” Oh, and NO, NO, NO. Your definition of ‘true native’ is in fact the definition of endemic. Endemic – ‘restricted to one or a few localities in its distribution’. Native - ‘indigenous inhabitants of a place or country’. Further proof you are yet again out of your depth.[/p][/quote]Mirgration you said your self now. re-colonisation And you can not say where these butterflys came from, and as back in late March and early April and again in mid May the wind direction and speed of wind could of brought them in as far as northern Italy.[/p][/quote]I have NOT said “migration”, have I? Re-colonisation is NOT migration, nor is it immigration The re-colonisation of Whiteley Pastures, as I clearly stated, was from the very nearby Botley Woods – a distance “well within their maximum dispersal range.” The words I use have specific meaning in biology and you would be well advised to look them up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Our native fritillaries are NOT the result of immigration. Do you ever read what I say? freefinker
  • Score: 0

3:13pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
.. bet you can't name 9.
Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.
Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides)
Dark Green Fritillary
(Argynnis aglaja)
Glanville Fritillary
(Melitaea cinxia)
Heath Fritillary
(Melitaea athalia)
High Brown Fritillary
(Argynnis adippe)
Marsh Fritillary
(Euphydryas aurinia)
Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria euphrosyne)
Silver-washed Fritillary
(Argynnis paphia)
Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria selene)
and the Duke of Burgundy
(Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation
The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings.

As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do.


“Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant.


So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight[/p][/quote].. bet you can't name 9. Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.[/p][/quote]Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides) Dark Green Fritillary (Argynnis aglaja) Glanville Fritillary (Melitaea cinxia) Heath Fritillary (Melitaea athalia) High Brown Fritillary (Argynnis adippe) Marsh Fritillary (Euphydryas aurinia) Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria euphrosyne) Silver-washed Fritillary (Argynnis paphia) Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria selene) and the Duke of Burgundy (Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation[/p][/quote]The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings. As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do. “Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant. So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries. freefinker
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
.. bet you can't name 9.
Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.
Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides)
Dark Green Fritillary
(Argynnis aglaja)
Glanville Fritillary
(Melitaea cinxia)
Heath Fritillary
(Melitaea athalia)
High Brown Fritillary
(Argynnis adippe)
Marsh Fritillary
(Euphydryas aurinia)
Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria euphrosyne)
Silver-washed Fritillary
(Argynnis paphia)
Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria selene)
and the Duke of Burgundy
(Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation
The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings.

As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do.


“Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant.


So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries.
Thats where your wrong again the meadow fritillary is found on the south coast and have colonys from devon to kent, Romley uppers meadow fields have one of the biggest colonys in the Uk, and have had recordings being here since victorian times.
Metalmark are main branch family of the fritillary and would take 150 thousand years before they can be class as there own species.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight[/p][/quote].. bet you can't name 9. Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.[/p][/quote]Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides) Dark Green Fritillary (Argynnis aglaja) Glanville Fritillary (Melitaea cinxia) Heath Fritillary (Melitaea athalia) High Brown Fritillary (Argynnis adippe) Marsh Fritillary (Euphydryas aurinia) Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria euphrosyne) Silver-washed Fritillary (Argynnis paphia) Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria selene) and the Duke of Burgundy (Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation[/p][/quote]The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings. As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do. “Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant. So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries.[/p][/quote]Thats where your wrong again the meadow fritillary is found on the south coast and have colonys from devon to kent, Romley uppers meadow fields have one of the biggest colonys in the Uk, and have had recordings being here since victorian times. Metalmark are main branch family of the fritillary and would take 150 thousand years before they can be class as there own species. southy
  • Score: 0

6:22pm Thu 16 Aug 12

southy says...

Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's.
All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature
Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's. All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature southy
  • Score: 0

8:08pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight
.. bet you can't name 9.
Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.
Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides)
Dark Green Fritillary
(Argynnis aglaja)
Glanville Fritillary
(Melitaea cinxia)
Heath Fritillary
(Melitaea athalia)
High Brown Fritillary
(Argynnis adippe)
Marsh Fritillary
(Euphydryas aurinia)
Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria euphrosyne)
Silver-washed Fritillary
(Argynnis paphia)
Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
(Boloria selene)
and the Duke of Burgundy
(Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation
The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings.

As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do.


“Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant.


So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries.
Thats where your wrong again the meadow fritillary is found on the south coast and have colonys from devon to kent, Romley uppers meadow fields have one of the biggest colonys in the Uk, and have had recordings being here since victorian times.
Metalmark are main branch family of the fritillary and would take 150 thousand years before they can be class as there own species.
1) “Romley uppers meadow fields” is not a geographical location anywhere in the UK. Is this your bad spelling or just another made up location – i.e. a lie?

2) Please show me just one scrap of evidence from Butterfly Conservation’s website (or anywhere else) to show the Meadow Fritillary has EVER been seen in the UK - http://www.butterfly
-conservation.org/ I bet you can’t show one single URL to back up your ridiculous assertion.

3) Fritillaries belong to the Nymphalidae family, which they share with the Browns and Vanessids.

4) Metalmarks are a sub-family of the Lycaenidea family that also includes the Hairstreaks, Coppers and Blues.

5) So, what you say is rubbish that you have just made up.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: And by the way if i remember rightly there are nine common fritillary not eight[/p][/quote].. bet you can't name 9. Just a hint - if you think the Duke of Burgundy is a fritillary, you are wrong and very out of date.[/p][/quote]Meadow Fritillary (Melitaea parthenoides) Dark Green Fritillary (Argynnis aglaja) Glanville Fritillary (Melitaea cinxia) Heath Fritillary (Melitaea athalia) High Brown Fritillary (Argynnis adippe) Marsh Fritillary (Euphydryas aurinia) Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria euphrosyne) Silver-washed Fritillary (Argynnis paphia) Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary (Boloria selene) and the Duke of Burgundy (Hamearis lucina) which comes as the same classifcation[/p][/quote]The Meadow Fritillary, Melitaea parthenoides, is NOT found in the UK. It inhabits SW Europe and there have been no UK sightings. As I clearly pointed out to you in my challenge, the Duke of Burgundy is NOT a fritillary but belongs to the Metalmark family. Until about 25 years ago it was sometimes called a fritillary because of its visual similarity to the fritillary family – you need to update your knowledge, like you keep telling everyone on here they should do. “Classification” also has a specific meaning, of which you are obviously ignorant. So, with these two eliminated from your list we now agree that there are 8 native fritillaries.[/p][/quote]Thats where your wrong again the meadow fritillary is found on the south coast and have colonys from devon to kent, Romley uppers meadow fields have one of the biggest colonys in the Uk, and have had recordings being here since victorian times. Metalmark are main branch family of the fritillary and would take 150 thousand years before they can be class as there own species.[/p][/quote]1) “Romley uppers meadow fields” is not a geographical location anywhere in the UK. Is this your bad spelling or just another made up location – i.e. a lie? 2) Please show me just one scrap of evidence from Butterfly Conservation’s website (or anywhere else) to show the Meadow Fritillary has EVER been seen in the UK - http://www.butterfly -conservation.org/ I bet you can’t show one single URL to back up your ridiculous assertion. 3) Fritillaries belong to the Nymphalidae family, which they share with the Browns and Vanessids. 4) Metalmarks are a sub-family of the Lycaenidea family that also includes the Hairstreaks, Coppers and Blues. 5) So, what you say is rubbish that you have just made up. freefinker
  • Score: 0

8:32pm Thu 16 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's.
All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature
.. southy, why do you open yourself to so much ridicule by constantly trying to pretend you know everything; and then resort to lies when found out.

I have logged this exchange in my ever growing list of your scientific blunders.

‘Mark, release and recapture’ schemes are still very common in butterfly research and that is why we (I am an active participant in scientific butterfly research) know the normal dispersal ranges of all UK butterflies.

Yes, some species are migratory; the Painted Lady comes to our shores each year from North Africa and Southern Europe. Other species are sedentary and rarely fly more than a few hundred metres from where they were born.

I have told you the position with the 8 species of fritillaries we have native in the UK. Again, NONE are migratory and NONE are reinforced by immigration from mainland Europe. The Pearl-bordered has a natural dispersal range of less than 10km. These are FACTS southy, and you will not be able to show me any URL that says otherwise.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's. All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature[/p][/quote].. southy, why do you open yourself to so much ridicule by constantly trying to pretend you know everything; and then resort to lies when found out. I have logged this exchange in my ever growing list of your scientific blunders. ‘Mark, release and recapture’ schemes are still very common in butterfly research and that is why we (I am an active participant in scientific butterfly research) know the normal dispersal ranges of all UK butterflies. Yes, some species are migratory; the Painted Lady comes to our shores each year from North Africa and Southern Europe. Other species are sedentary and rarely fly more than a few hundred metres from where they were born. I have told you the position with the 8 species of fritillaries we have native in the UK. Again, NONE are migratory and NONE are reinforced by immigration from mainland Europe. The Pearl-bordered has a natural dispersal range of less than 10km. These are FACTS southy, and you will not be able to show me any URL that says otherwise. freefinker
  • Score: 0

6:41pm Sat 18 Aug 12

IronLady2010 says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's.
All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature
.. southy, why do you open yourself to so much ridicule by constantly trying to pretend you know everything; and then resort to lies when found out.

I have logged this exchange in my ever growing list of your scientific blunders.

‘Mark, release and recapture’ schemes are still very common in butterfly research and that is why we (I am an active participant in scientific butterfly research) know the normal dispersal ranges of all UK butterflies.

Yes, some species are migratory; the Painted Lady comes to our shores each year from North Africa and Southern Europe. Other species are sedentary and rarely fly more than a few hundred metres from where they were born.

I have told you the position with the 8 species of fritillaries we have native in the UK. Again, NONE are migratory and NONE are reinforced by immigration from mainland Europe. The Pearl-bordered has a natural dispersal range of less than 10km. These are FACTS southy, and you will not be able to show me any URL that says otherwise.
Southy as always is correct, why are you mocking him? He has access to secret info that isn't available on the net.

I suggest you go out and talk to the man on the street! ;-)
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Freefinker your not much of a country boy are you, have ever read book on butterfly tagging, where they put a food dye on the wings as markers and recored the places where they have been found this was carried out in the mid 60's to late 70's. All butterflys are able to migrate even if its is accidental, that is the way of nature[/p][/quote].. southy, why do you open yourself to so much ridicule by constantly trying to pretend you know everything; and then resort to lies when found out. I have logged this exchange in my ever growing list of your scientific blunders. ‘Mark, release and recapture’ schemes are still very common in butterfly research and that is why we (I am an active participant in scientific butterfly research) know the normal dispersal ranges of all UK butterflies. Yes, some species are migratory; the Painted Lady comes to our shores each year from North Africa and Southern Europe. Other species are sedentary and rarely fly more than a few hundred metres from where they were born. I have told you the position with the 8 species of fritillaries we have native in the UK. Again, NONE are migratory and NONE are reinforced by immigration from mainland Europe. The Pearl-bordered has a natural dispersal range of less than 10km. These are FACTS southy, and you will not be able to show me any URL that says otherwise.[/p][/quote]Southy as always is correct, why are you mocking him? He has access to secret info that isn't available on the net. I suggest you go out and talk to the man on the street! ;-) IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

11:48am Mon 20 Aug 12

petereeles says...

Someone pointed me at this article, and it's wonderful seeing the great work done at Whiteley Pastures recognised.

The comments being made on this article have left me somewhat-shocked at the level of misinformation! Anyway, as chairman of the Hampshire and Isle of Wight branch of Butterfly Conservation, and founder of the UK Butterflies website (www.ukbutterflies.c
o.uk) I can categorically state that:

- Pearl-bordered Fritillary is a native british butterfly
- Pearl-bordered Fritillary are not boosted by immigrants from the continent
- Pearl-bordered Fritillary colonies get repopulated from other sites
- There are 8 resident species of true fritillary (Small Pearl-bordered, Pearl-bordered, High Brown, Dark Green, Silver-washed, Marsh, Glanville and Heath)
- These resident species are present all year round (which is the definition of "resident") in at least one of their stages (egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, adult)
- There is 1 wholly-migrant fritillary (Queen of Spain) that has managed to set short-lived temporary colonies in the past
- There are no records of Meadow Fritillary from the British Isles ... ever

I'm half expecting to be corrected now :)
Someone pointed me at this article, and it's wonderful seeing the great work done at Whiteley Pastures recognised. The comments being made on this article have left me somewhat-shocked at the level of misinformation! Anyway, as chairman of the Hampshire and Isle of Wight branch of Butterfly Conservation, and founder of the UK Butterflies website (www.ukbutterflies.c o.uk) I can categorically state that: - Pearl-bordered Fritillary is a native british butterfly - Pearl-bordered Fritillary are not boosted by immigrants from the continent - Pearl-bordered Fritillary colonies get repopulated from other sites - There are 8 resident species of true fritillary (Small Pearl-bordered, Pearl-bordered, High Brown, Dark Green, Silver-washed, Marsh, Glanville and Heath) - These resident species are present all year round (which is the definition of "resident") in at least one of their stages (egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, adult) - There is 1 wholly-migrant fritillary (Queen of Spain) that has managed to set short-lived temporary colonies in the past - There are no records of Meadow Fritillary from the British Isles ... ever I'm half expecting to be corrected now :) petereeles
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

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