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Are police plans for Saints vs Pompey match going too far?

Police fans ahead of a previous Saints v Pompey match Police fans ahead of a previous Saints v Pompey match

It’s set to be one of the biggest ever football policing operations in Hampshire as police prepare to use the controversial ‘coach bubble’ tactic to get Southampton fans to this month’s clash with rivals Pompey. But is this approach heavy-handed – or a necessity to keep fans safe? Here, both sides have their say.

Supt Rick Burrows explains why he is in favour of the bubble plan

I am a huge football fan.

Growing up in Manchester, you followed one of two teams.

Terrace culture – the passion, the excitement and the banter – was a huge part of my life. It still is.

But I’m also a police officer, indeed the one responsible for the delivery of the policing operation for the two Portsmouth and Southampton derbies this season.

While I still hold football culture dear, I have different priorities – primarily the safety and security of the fans, the stewards, my officers and the wider public.

We all too quickly forget the events of Hillsborough, Bradford and Stairway 13 and too readily deny the link between football violence and tragedy, as seen at Heysel.

I have policed all the derby fixtures between Portsmouth and Southampton in the past 27 years and understand their significance and the passions they generate.

I have also seen the damaged properties and the injuries to innocent members of the public, fans, stewards and my officers caused as a direct result of crowd disorder.

Despite the decline of football disorder from the peak of the 1980s, I do not see with the local derby any lessening of the levels of intent or sheer dislike of the opposing fans, from that small group of people who enjoy and seek disorder – just look at the websites, videos and social network comments to see how hateful some people really are.

The police and the clubs would not apply the “bubble” unless they genuinely felt that the safety and security of the majority of fans at these fixtures was put at risk.

History demonstrates that these fixtures will have a high likelihood of crowd disorder, specifically targeted at away fans entering and leaving the host city. The coach bubble ensures they can be brought in safely. It’s not an easier option – it’s the safest option. While I would dearly love not to do it, I have seen too much violence, too much damage and too many injuries to not apply what is a simple tactic that has safety at its heart.

Lifelong supporter Steve Grant says why he thinks the bubble treats fans like second-class citizens.

Freedom of movement is my main gripe with the “bubble” restrictions.

I’m a 28-yearold adult who has attended more than 500 Saints games, home and away.

I travel independently to games which allows me the relative freedom of choosing how I travel and how much I pay to do so.

For the Pompey game, my original plan was to get a train direct from Croydon, where I live, to Fratton, and then to walk to the ground from there.

Cheap, simple and effortless.

I don’t wear colours to games, so it would be easy to blend into the crowd walking to Fratton Park.

Instead I’m being forced to travel down on the Saturday (for which I originally had other social plans), and then herded onto a cramped double-decker bus which clearly isn’t costing the club £12 a seat to provide.

All of the likely routes into Portsmouth provide plenty of ambush points, which means a convoy of 50-odd coaches will simply be sitting ducks waiting to be fired upon with whatever the locals can gather.

From my research, the process of “kettling” (a more common title for the bubble) is illegal without the “immediate” threat of widespread public disorder.

Considering we have been given two months’ notice, I fail to see how that in any way applies here.

The police rely on the unlikelihood of anyone having the means or effort to challenge it through a civil court case.

Hopefully someone will end that complacency soon.

Personally I’m tired of football fans being treated like second-class citizens.

Comments(63)

St.Yorkie says...
3:35pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I can see both sides of this argument, however as a law abiding footall fan who generally mixes with visiting fans and drinks in home pubs on awaydays - what is the problem?
I went to Portsmouth Poly, I worked at MSDS & Pall Europe - it's a farce to assume there will be trouble...although last time we went there and lost there was a riot - what does that tell you? I just hope the thousands of the best supporters in the world are herded to SMS in the same way...after all they will be made very welcome!

radders69uk says...
3:43pm Mon 5 Dec 11

It is against my rights to be forced to a game this way. If I could afford it, I would challenge this farce in a court of law.

St Retford says...
3:46pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I think it's a bit alarmist for Supt Burrows to be mentioning Hillsborough and Heysel at the top of his piece. Does anyone seriously think anything like that could happen? I think a large part of this is the police trying to justify their own existence.

St Retford says...
3:50pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Plus, I think that by keeping fans apart like this you'll actually pre-empt a lot of violence by making it one tribe against a faceless opponent. It's a lot easier to throw a bottle at a coach than it is to shove one in the face of someone you can see.

St John Smythe says...
4:01pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Clearly Mr Burrows has forgotten in his desire to maintain his celebrity status that Hillsborough was caused in part by police incompetence and Braford by a fire in an old, wooden stand. pretty vile that a man in his position would use such tradegies to justify his decision.

St.Yorkie says...
4:05pm Mon 5 Dec 11

St Retford wrote:
Plus, I think that by keeping fans apart like this you'll actually pre-empt a lot of violence by making it one tribe against a faceless opponent. It's a lot easier to throw a bottle at a coach than it is to shove one in the face of someone you can see.
Not a nice thought but I agree. Then again in my time of being a Saints fan in Portsmouth (in the past) - they are just so bitter!
Not sure what it's al about as we have a few knuckle draggers who follow us - but their's seem to belong in a class of their own.
It seems to manifest itself more when the gangs get together - individuals don't seem to bad! So by creating the bubble - the biggest gang has been created as Pompey fans can muster a couple of hundred. Our gang is bigger than yours!

SaintsBTGOG says...
4:07pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I think the whole thing has been a total disgrace. SFC should of told the club to poke it. The police have dicatated the whole thing right down to who is allowed a ticket! Totally scandalous that those who already had a ticket where allowed more. We have played each other several times in the last ten years. On just two occasions was their notable trouble. That being due to the incompetence of the police to do the basics.

I think we should of at least had FREE travel like Newcastle/Sunderland get, which is voluntary.

Rick Burrows just seems to be on one big pr ego trip.

Strasbourg Saint says...
4:13pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Italia '90. Cr4p policing, pointless segregation, contrived agression, plenty of trouble.

Germany 2006. Sensible policing, encouraged integration, mutual respect, just one (Stuttgart) flashpoint.

Says it all Burrows. You simply haven't got a clue.

Strasbourg Saint says...
4:15pm Mon 5 Dec 11

SaintsBTGOG wrote:
I think the whole thing has been a total disgrace. SFC should of told the club to poke it. The police have dicatated the whole thing right down to who is allowed a ticket! Totally scandalous that those who already had a ticket where allowed more. We have played each other several times in the last ten years. On just two occasions was their notable trouble. That being due to the incompetence of the police to do the basics. I think we should of at least had FREE travel like Newcastle/Sunderland get, which is voluntary. Rick Burrows just seems to be on one big pr ego trip.
That!

Strasbourg Saint says...
4:20pm Mon 5 Dec 11

P.S. Burrows says, 'I'm a huge football fan. Growing up in Manchester, you followed one of two teams.'

Why (unfairly) am I dubious about that? I'd be interested to know if he can name the last City Championship team or the 1968 United European Cup winning team.

k.hodgkins says...
4:21pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Pompey Supporter here. I have a lot of good friends that are Sints supporters and I enjoy some very good banter between us. I feel it is a shame that the police feel they need to go to such draconian measures to apparently keep the peace.
The strangest thing is if a saints supporter does not live in the city then they can not go to the game unless they travel to souhampton first even if it means driving past fratton park to get there.
Good rivalry is great pure hatred is just so wrong,
I expect the same measures will be in place for the return match, I for one will not be going, I do not enjoy the atmoshere of these games, I will however be going to the Brighton game, wrere the rivalry is less intense.

Lucius Curtis says...
4:34pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I have lost all respect for Rick Burrows, the man is totally out of touch. For starters, he is not a football fan. If he was, he would know the tragedy at Bradford was caused by a cigarette being dropped underneath a wooden stand. Hillsborough was caused by overcrowding, fences, and police incompetence in opening the gates. Ibrox was caused by fans leaving at the end, but turning around when hearing the cheers of a Rangers goal. None of these were caused by hooliganism, he's shown himself up by suggesting it was.
I agree with Steve, these coaches will be sitting ducks for Pompey fans wanting to attack them. He's also encouraged the worst kind of football violence, fans who travel without a ticket, just looking for a fight. He cannot stop people travelling to Fratton, so what makes him think this ridiculous convey will stop the troublemakers just travelling without tickets? I'm afraid he has shown himself to be very naive

City Final says...
5:00pm Mon 5 Dec 11

The bubble will only achieve one thing. It will stop SFC troublemakers attending the match.
It will not prevent PFC yobs from doing so.
It will not prevent SFC troublemakers travelling to Portsmouth and not attending the game but seeking out trouble before or after the game.
If anything it makes it even easier for trouble amongst those genuinely looking for it as they know in advance what areas the police will now be concentrated in and avoid them.
Admittedly it will help innocent SFC fans from getting caught up in trouble - Steve's valid point about coaches being sitting targets notwithstanding - but to be fair how often does an innocent fan get caught up in trouble anyway ?
I am a responsible adult who is quite capable of travelling 20 miles on my own, whilst avoiding any trouble. Sure there is the unlikely possibility of being attacked but that could happen to me anytime, anywhere.
I will not be told when or how I have to travel and , to paraphrase Dragon's Den - for that reason I'm not going.

I sincerely hope Mr Burrows has got this right, but I fear he may have many questions to answer after the event.

SaintsBTGOG says...
5:01pm Mon 5 Dec 11

To try and justify this bubble by using events unrelated to crowd disorder is farcical. Burrows really should be considering his position as football police controller. He failed to organise the basics outside St Marys last year. He failed to do the obvious outside Fratton in 2004.

WECOMING4U says...
5:15pm Mon 5 Dec 11

SaintsBTGOG wrote:
To try and justify this bubble by using events unrelated to crowd disorder is farcical. Burrows really should be considering his position as football police controller. He failed to organise the basics outside St Marys last year. He failed to do the obvious outside Fratton in 2004.
Totally agree, the man has had 27 years to get it right, often with long gaps in between fixtures to plan his men and women! So what happens last time we met p****y ? people are sent to prison for throwing stones and shaking fences!
I am organising a game of "Lottery Windows" basically 50 x coaches x 10 windows each = 500 windows. All you need to do is guess how many windows come back in tact!

dellish says...
5:20pm Mon 5 Dec 11

burrows is a joke .been going to see saints for 40 years .never been safer ,but he knows courts will give big bans and jail for things you would never get in ordanary life ,he reminds of a traffic warden hiding round the corner ,

1-4inyourownbackyard says...
5:34pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I think that the convoy will be attacked but at least provide the police with having 'detained' a whole set of fans leaving only one set to deal with. However I foresee a problem arising when trying to get the stains into Fratton having parked some 3500 fans all of whom will be anxious at being held even longer!
That and Pompey's history for aggressive moves towards our rivals will make it hot work for the Police.
The best thing that could happen is a Pompey win, anything else will have the locals baying for blood!

mark5 says...
5:38pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I think this approach is completely ridiculous and total overkill. This surely has to be a reflection on policing tactics in and around the ground? This approach creates a "siege mentality" and the so called "bubble" creates a sitting target to those few idiots whose mission it is to cause trouble. As a Brighton fan, our games with Crystal Palace are packed with rivalry, atmosphere and isolated disturbance, but nothing like this! When Pompey and Saints visit the Amex, they might be surprised how informal and relaxed the policy is here. Fans can mix outside the ground and are encouraged to have a drink after the game and stay around. The stewards and police are low key but can deal with any potential flashpoints accordingly. The fact that there are so many "genuine" football fans milling about discourages any trouble as it is only when groups can gather in isolation that trouble starts. So far, with half a season almost gone there has been very little to talk about negatively, with this policy our club adopts. Once mass segregation is used, resentments and frustrationn flare and that is where the problems start. My advice is to "burst the bubble" and police the flashpoints where necessary with the intelligence the Police already have.

One Heart....One Vision says...
5:58pm Mon 5 Dec 11

If the Bubble protects Saints fans...then it's worth it....afterall it's for our fans protection. As we know...a proportion of Pompey fans are missing a few brain cells.

costa gaz says...
6:00pm Mon 5 Dec 11

This "bubble" will not work, thousands of sitting ducks being pelted with missiles by cowards coming out of every nook and cranny along the route.
There probably wont be any fisticuffs, but I fear that the injuries totals could be high.
If this fails, and I believe it will, the next, and only, step will be to ban all away fans from these fixtures in the future.

mike08 says...
6:34pm Mon 5 Dec 11

"We all too quickly forget the events of Hillsborough, Bradford and Stairway 13 and too readily deny the link between football violence and tragedy." I would really really like someone to take the ignorant feckless twit up on the above comments. Since when did police incompetence and litter have anything to do with violence at football? whopper!

The Watcher says...
6:42pm Mon 5 Dec 11

As others have said, I am ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED that Supt Burrows attempts to use the tragedies of the Valley Parade fire and Ibrox disaster as some of way of justifying this decision.
.
It is crass, disrespectful and totally ill informed and would suggest to me that this individual is not fit for purpose.
.
The biggest argument against the practice he is proposing is the very fact that he is unable to justify its implementation.
.
ABSOLUTELY APPALLED.

billythesaint says...
6:55pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Let me get this straight, Burrows is voicing concerns about his officers being injured but you're driving 50 coaches full of Saints fans through Pompey with a police escort? Who do you think is going to suffer the most injuries when the coaches come under attack? The fans will be relatively safe, provided the coaches have some sort of safety glass, but the Old Bill are going to be very busy indeed.

IanRRR says...
7:20pm Mon 5 Dec 11

billythesaint wrote:
Let me get this straight, Burrows is voicing concerns about his officers being injured but you're driving 50 coaches full of Saints fans through Pompey with a police escort? Who do you think is going to suffer the most injuries when the coaches come under attack? The fans will be relatively safe, provided the coaches have some sort of safety glass, but the Old Bill are going to be very busy indeed.
Safety glass? All vehicles have safety glass, but as we can all see from events on the A12 in Essex, it wont stop lumps of concrete going straight through! I hardly think the coach operators are going to install bullet proof windows for one trip each way!
Saints fans are sitting ducks in their glass bubbles. This could be a complete disaster. I really hope not, but I can see Pimpey fans laying in wait as we leave Southampton, not waiting until we get down there, where so many police will be waiting.....

M1chael says...
7:24pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I am a Sunderland supporter who lives closer to Sid James' than the Stadium of Light, so I always travel to derby matches on my own, rather than in the buses which the club organises. I never have trouble doing that. However, at present it does depend on away supporters remaining in the stadium until the home supporters have been dispersed. Surely, in the long term, police have got to police actual disorder and deal with actual incidents, prosecuting people who commit crimes, rather than restricting the liberty of the law abiding majority.

slugger says...
7:34pm Mon 5 Dec 11

M1chael wrote:
I am a Sunderland supporter who lives closer to Sid James' than the Stadium of Light, so I always travel to derby matches on my own, rather than in the buses which the club organises. I never have trouble doing that. However, at present it does depend on away supporters remaining in the stadium until the home supporters have been dispersed. Surely, in the long term, police have got to police actual disorder and deal with actual incidents, prosecuting people who commit crimes, rather than restricting the liberty of the law abiding majority.
spot on !

worried of n e hampshire says...
7:47pm Mon 5 Dec 11

has anyone had e mail confirmation that they have tickets yet?

SaintsBTGOG says...
8:28pm Mon 5 Dec 11

I think fans shouldnt just let this pass and actually complain to the Police authority regarding Burrows comments.

You can email professional.standar
ds@hampshire.pnn.pol
ice.uk or http://www.ipcc.gov.
uk/en/Pages/your_com
plaint_.aspx

Make sure you highlight that you are complaining about Supt Rick Burrows of Hampshire Police. His comments in the Daily Echo 3rd December 2011 and online (this url)

Paul Lucas says...
8:42pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Don't agree with this solution to the 'perceived' problem.
.
From what I've read elsewhere, I believe Supt Burrows is going to have a police car (and officers of course!) on all bridges over the route to Krap Nottarf so, with some considerable luck, lumps of concrete will not be dropping through the roofs of any of the 50 coaches. Say that again slowly - FIFTY COACHES!! That's over half of what went to Wembley last year. Ridiculous!! And all in the name of 'safety'. This is a crass decision. Perhaps Supt. Burrows should be asked what went wrong with the policing of the SFC Milwall game? Got it totally wrong!

Pigeon Street says...
8:42pm Mon 5 Dec 11

SaintsBTGOG wrote:
I think fans shouldnt just let this pass and actually complain to the Police authority regarding Burrows comments. You can email professional.standar ds@hampshire.pnn.pol ice.uk or http://www.ipcc.gov. uk/en/Pages/your_com plaint_.aspx Make sure you highlight that you are complaining about Supt Rick Burrows of Hampshire Police. His comments in the Daily Echo 3rd December 2011 and online (this url)
I agree and think this attention seeking police officer should be held accountable for the ridiculous comments he makes in the above article, i have a mate who is a Liverpool fan who was at Hillsborough the day of the disaster and showed him this earlier, he was disgusted that it has been used by PC Burrows to his justification to do a bubble trip for saints v pompey, if the echo have contacts with Burrows it would be great to push him to respond to some of the comments on here, apologise, and even resign!!!

Bunman says...
9:31pm Mon 5 Dec 11

Comments in relation to Hillsborough and Bradford in particular seem more than a little ill advised. Hampshire Police have been spoiling for a big operation for some time. Over the last 5 or 6 years we (pompey) have had little or no trouble yet we're still subjected to over the top policing on occasions. The bubble will work, they will say it was a success, but in all honesty I think that this game would have passed off relatively peacefully anyway.

Pompey72 says...
12:49am Tue 6 Dec 11

Primarily an abuse of human rights. Secondly, an abhorrent 'police state' decision made without consultation to either party that effectively, misguidedly, assumes that all football fans are hooligans, intent on trouble, disregarding the majority of supporters who are law abiding citizens that want to watch their team play their local rivals without cause for problem. Nothing less than prejudice. A crime in itself? With no regard to where fans arrive from. I actually wished that Saints fans effectively en masse stuck two fingers up to this disgusting infringement of rights, and not one fan bought a coach ticket/match ticket to the game at Fratton Park. Appalling. We al deserve to be treated as civil humans by Hampshire Constabulary. It is purely they, not our clubs, that are 'inciting' trouble now, by herding supporters in a nonsensicle way to each others' grounds in a way that will target more than ever to the ignoramus, the travelling fan, so that they can inexcusably impart their pathetic hatred upon a coach. Driven by an unwitting, undeserving man driving a vehicle, upon a deluded whim of a Chief Constable. Hang your head in shame whoever you are. Football supporters deserve better than this. I shall actively promote the non-attendance of Pompey fans at St. Mary's on 17th April, as an affront to our basic human rights. Enjoy your season, some great football that must be great to watch...but I hope you lose on the 18th. A perfectly law abiding Pompey fan that thinks this decision is deplorable.

rob the saint in NZ says...
1:40am Tue 6 Dec 11

Pompey72 wrote:
Primarily an abuse of human rights. Secondly, an abhorrent 'police state' decision made without consultation to either party that effectively, misguidedly, assumes that all football fans are hooligans, intent on trouble, disregarding the majority of supporters who are law abiding citizens that want to watch their team play their local rivals without cause for problem. Nothing less than prejudice. A crime in itself? With no regard to where fans arrive from. I actually wished that Saints fans effectively en masse stuck two fingers up to this disgusting infringement of rights, and not one fan bought a coach ticket/match ticket to the game at Fratton Park. Appalling. We al deserve to be treated as civil humans by Hampshire Constabulary. It is purely they, not our clubs, that are 'inciting' trouble now, by herding supporters in a nonsensicle way to each others' grounds in a way that will target more than ever to the ignoramus, the travelling fan, so that they can inexcusably impart their pathetic hatred upon a coach. Driven by an unwitting, undeserving man driving a vehicle, upon a deluded whim of a Chief Constable. Hang your head in shame whoever you are. Football supporters deserve better than this. I shall actively promote the non-attendance of Pompey fans at St. Mary's on 17th April, as an affront to our basic human rights. Enjoy your season, some great football that must be great to watch...but I hope you lose on the 18th. A perfectly law abiding Pompey fan that thinks this decision is deplorable.
Fair play to you mate for a well reasoned sensible post.

There was a bit of trouble earlier in the season when the Millwall fans were let out at the same time as us & the Police's argument as to why they didn't keep them in was that it woud "infringe their human rights". LMFAO!!!

So that decision totally flies in the face of what is being enforced with the "bubble".

Supt. Burrows has displayed a high level of inconsistency & arrogance & lost any respect or justification for his decision making abilities.

There's no reason for violence, we can each just shout abuse at each from the stands & then go home & write about it without punching anyone or throwing things!

Hope you lose to us home & away of course, but hope you don't go under because everyone needs a good local rivalry.

COYR!!!

Gossie. says...
8:17am Tue 6 Dec 11

This could be a Bubble that Bursts big time.
I drive round Pompey regularly with all my Saints flags and window posters in the car have had no trouble, even parked it in Fratton Park car park, but on the 17th we will be sitting ducks, there is no way all 50 coaches will be able to stay moving, they will come to a stop at sometime, and bang go the windows

MGRA says...
8:38am Tue 6 Dec 11

Either A. The police know who the likely trouble makers are and can't be bothered to to their job properly.... or B. They don't know who the likely trouble makers are in which case they haven't been bothered to do their job properly. Whichever tense is it, its a joke. But then again this is the same police force who watched drug dealers do business from the window of their bitterne police station and did nothing about it due to "lack of evidence".

St.Yorkie says...
8:44am Tue 6 Dec 11

I recall several holidays when I spotted a Pompey shirt in a restaurant or bar. Usually out of colours I'd start a conversation and then drop in I was a "Scummer" - never had a problem. Then on match days in colours I remember a group of 3-lads in a bar in Fuerta Ventura - as good as gold! Still can't understand why this is such a big deal...but then again who would have thought Yeovil fans would have got done in/outside The King Alfred?
There is an unsavoury element that follows every club - but I'm a great believer that if one individual was set on by either set of fans - the decent ones would jump in and sort it out...that's what being a true fan is all about.

Gossie. says...
9:01am Tue 6 Dec 11

Gossie. wrote:
This could be a Bubble that Bursts big time. I drive round Pompey regularly with all my Saints flags and window posters in the car have had no trouble, even parked it in Fratton Park car park, but on the 17th we will be sitting ducks, there is no way all 50 coaches will be able to stay moving, they will come to a stop at sometime, and bang go the windows
18th Even

seventh-junction says...
9:11am Tue 6 Dec 11

1-4inyourownbackyard wrote:
I think that the convoy will be attacked but at least provide the police with having 'detained' a whole set of fans leaving only one set to deal with. However I foresee a problem arising when trying to get the stains into Fratton having parked some 3500 fans all of whom will be anxious at being held even longer!
That and Pompey's history for aggressive moves towards our rivals will make it hot work for the Police.
The best thing that could happen is a Pompey win, anything else will have the locals baying for blood!
Tw@t

MGRA says...
9:13am Tue 6 Dec 11

St.Yorkie wrote:
I recall several holidays when I spotted a Pompey shirt in a restaurant or bar. Usually out of colours I'd start a conversation and then drop in I was a "Scummer" - never had a problem. Then on match days in colours I remember a group of 3-lads in a bar in Fuerta Ventura - as good as gold! Still can't understand why this is such a big deal...but then again who would have thought Yeovil fans would have got done in/outside The King Alfred?
There is an unsavoury element that follows every club - but I'm a great believer that if one individual was set on by either set of fans - the decent ones would jump in and sort it out...that's what being a true fan is all about.
and then those decent ones would be arrested and charged by the police... what I find incredible is that the football leagues and the FA don't work to root out yobs from the game. Football in the UK above non league status should be a members only set-up. You have to apply for membership and you don't get it if you have convictions within the last 5 years for violence. If you are ever caught on CCTV using threatening behaviour then your membership is withdrawn for 5 years. If you are ever seen committing assault then its a life ban. Forget the police, the FA/clubs/league can sort this out but they have not the mental ability and dexterity to.

seventh-junction says...
9:14am Tue 6 Dec 11

k.hodgkins wrote:
Pompey Supporter here. I have a lot of good friends that are Sints supporters and I enjoy some very good banter between us. I feel it is a shame that the police feel they need to go to such draconian measures to apparently keep the peace.
The strangest thing is if a saints supporter does not live in the city then they can not go to the game unless they travel to souhampton first even if it means driving past fratton park to get there.
Good rivalry is great pure hatred is just so wrong,
I expect the same measures will be in place for the return match, I for one will not be going, I do not enjoy the atmoshere of these games, I will however be going to the Brighton game, wrere the rivalry is less intense.
Good post

seventh-junction says...
9:15am Tue 6 Dec 11

Pompey72 wrote:
Primarily an abuse of human rights. Secondly, an abhorrent 'police state' decision made without consultation to either party that effectively, misguidedly, assumes that all football fans are hooligans, intent on trouble, disregarding the majority of supporters who are law abiding citizens that want to watch their team play their local rivals without cause for problem. Nothing less than prejudice. A crime in itself? With no regard to where fans arrive from. I actually wished that Saints fans effectively en masse stuck two fingers up to this disgusting infringement of rights, and not one fan bought a coach ticket/match ticket to the game at Fratton Park. Appalling. We al deserve to be treated as civil humans by Hampshire Constabulary. It is purely they, not our clubs, that are 'inciting' trouble now, by herding supporters in a nonsensicle way to each others' grounds in a way that will target more than ever to the ignoramus, the travelling fan, so that they can inexcusably impart their pathetic hatred upon a coach. Driven by an unwitting, undeserving man driving a vehicle, upon a deluded whim of a Chief Constable. Hang your head in shame whoever you are. Football supporters deserve better than this. I shall actively promote the non-attendance of Pompey fans at St. Mary's on 17th April, as an affront to our basic human rights. Enjoy your season, some great football that must be great to watch...but I hope you lose on the 18th. A perfectly law abiding Pompey fan that thinks this decision is deplorable.
good post

City Final says...
9:59am Tue 6 Dec 11

Wonder what his next "project" will be ? No entry into Southampton's city centre parks at night unless holding hands with a Police Officer so no-one will be mugged/raped/attacke
d/robbed ?

Pigeon Street says...
10:17am Tue 6 Dec 11

I am absolutely sure that the motives of this “bubble” and the clampdown on certain songs at the Brighton game has more to do with career progression for the attention seeking Mr Burrows than it does for the safety of the fans. We saw at the Cup game at St Marys that he invited the BBC programme “Inside Out” along to film and follow them, and have police officers coming from across Europe for this bubble experiment to watch how amazing his force is, the article above gave him the chance to explain the need for his actions, yet he chooses to mention disasters that happened at football over 20 years ago and are in no way relevant to the requirement for a bubble trip. To bring Hillsborough and Bradford into the debate is shameful.

mbetts says...
11:06am Tue 6 Dec 11

It wont matter next season, or even the St Mary's fixture because Pompey will cease to exist by then :-D

St Retford says...
11:35am Tue 6 Dec 11

Pompey72 wrote:
Primarily an abuse of human rights. Secondly, an abhorrent 'police state' decision made without consultation to either party that effectively, misguidedly, assumes that all football fans are hooligans, intent on trouble, disregarding the majority of supporters who are law abiding citizens that want to watch their team play their local rivals without cause for problem. Nothing less than prejudice. A crime in itself? With no regard to where fans arrive from. I actually wished that Saints fans effectively en masse stuck two fingers up to this disgusting infringement of rights, and not one fan bought a coach ticket/match ticket to the game at Fratton Park. Appalling. We al deserve to be treated as civil humans by Hampshire Constabulary. It is purely they, not our clubs, that are 'inciting' trouble now, by herding supporters in a nonsensicle way to each others' grounds in a way that will target more than ever to the ignoramus, the travelling fan, so that they can inexcusably impart their pathetic hatred upon a coach. Driven by an unwitting, undeserving man driving a vehicle, upon a deluded whim of a Chief Constable. Hang your head in shame whoever you are. Football supporters deserve better than this. I shall actively promote the non-attendance of Pompey fans at St. Mary's on 17th April, as an affront to our basic human rights. Enjoy your season, some great football that must be great to watch...but I hope you lose on the 18th. A perfectly law abiding Pompey fan that thinks this decision is deplorable.
I agree with every word, apart from the bit near the end. Do you know, this whole bubble debacle might inadvertently achieve the impossible and bring Saints and Pompey fans closer together, all unified against idiocy from above.

Costa Baz says...
11:41am Tue 6 Dec 11

If nothing else, Burrows actually has Saints and Pompey fans agreeing on something.
Namely that he is an hypocritical, attention seeking idiot who doesn't know what he is doing.
How he can allow away fans to leave SMS at the same time as home fans, when there is a clear threat of violence, as it is their "right to do so", yet deny Saints fans to make their own way to Fratton Park is beyond belief.

St Retford says...
11:59am Tue 6 Dec 11

Does this bubble happen at any other derby in the country?

And why are they called derbies anyway, given there's only one team in Derby?

Strasbourg Saint says...
12:33pm Tue 6 Dec 11

St Retford wrote:
Pompey72 wrote: Primarily an abuse of human rights. Secondly, an abhorrent 'police state' decision made without consultation to either party that effectively, misguidedly, assumes that all football fans are hooligans, intent on trouble, disregarding the majority of supporters who are law abiding citizens that want to watch their team play their local rivals without cause for problem. Nothing less than prejudice. A crime in itself? With no regard to where fans arrive from. I actually wished that Saints fans effectively en masse stuck two fingers up to this disgusting infringement of rights, and not one fan bought a coach ticket/match ticket to the game at Fratton Park. Appalling. We al deserve to be treated as civil humans by Hampshire Constabulary. It is purely they, not our clubs, that are 'inciting' trouble now, by herding supporters in a nonsensicle way to each others' grounds in a way that will target more than ever to the ignoramus, the travelling fan, so that they can inexcusably impart their pathetic hatred upon a coach. Driven by an unwitting, undeserving man driving a vehicle, upon a deluded whim of a Chief Constable. Hang your head in shame whoever you are. Football supporters deserve better than this. I shall actively promote the non-attendance of Pompey fans at St. Mary's on 17th April, as an affront to our basic human rights. Enjoy your season, some great football that must be great to watch...but I hope you lose on the 18th. A perfectly law abiding Pompey fan that thinks this decision is deplorable.
I agree with every word, apart from the bit near the end. Do you know, this whole bubble debacle might inadvertently achieve the impossible and bring Saints and Pompey fans closer together, all unified against idiocy from above.
Was going to post much the same.

In fact, odd as it may seem, I was thinking that we should form a unified group to petition Burrows (or his replacement when he loses his job) about April, insisting that visiting fans are not treated like this for the SMS fixture.

What is most worrying is that, compared to the premiership days (which are not so long ago), I feel far less safe at SMS (and some other places, notably at Reading). The policing must take a large amount of responsibility for this.

Strasbourg Saint says...
12:43pm Tue 6 Dec 11

St Retford wrote:
Does this bubble happen at any other derby in the country? And why are they called derbies anyway, given there's only one team in Derby?
I'm told they use the bubble over here on the continent. Someone told me it was like this when OM plays PSG (a fixture known for violence). That said, I've no idea what an OM fan living in Paris would do. It's a long way between France's two biggest cities (Lyon aside).

bigfella777 says...
1:02pm Tue 6 Dec 11

There does seem to be a culture growing among parts of the Police force that you can treat football fans however you like,because unlike protesters they wont complain.The trouble with this is that it can become not rivalry between 2 sets of fans but the Police themselves can become the enemy, they dont seem to be learning from their mistakes especially after the events of this year.
Im all for heavy handed Policing if people set out to cause trouble they should be dealt with severely and banned from football.
I think the sergeant refers to events such as Hillsborough because it was when hooliganism reached a peak and things began to change, I dont think its a comparison.
I would never take children to our derby I dont think its right as you never know what will happen and they should be kept out of the equation.
The trouble with bubbling,kettling,he
rding call it what you like is that people are no longer treated with respect, they are treated like animals and become angry.
If you want people to behave you need to treat them with respect.

RedArmy1 says...
1:50pm Tue 6 Dec 11

What no Saints Fans want to see is the similar approach to Plymouth Away last Season .....

Saints Fans were singled out and taken out of the crowd by the Police for any excuse and then the dogs came out to stop Saints fans celebrating the Win.

MAKE NO MISTAKE - RED ARMY GO TO POMPEY FOR VICTORY.

NOTHING ELSE WILL DO - WE DEMAND THE WIN.

RED ARRRRRRRRRRRMY.
THE PRIDE AND THE PASSION.

costa gaz says...
4:44pm Tue 6 Dec 11

Seems like pompey are having trouble selling tickets for this match....... (pfc o/s)

CrouchEndReg says...
7:39pm Tue 6 Dec 11

I for one will be submitting a complaint about Burrows comments regarding Hillsborough,Ibrox & Bradford. All 3 dreadful incidents had NOTHING to do with football hooligans. I just shows the guy's ignorance that he thinks any tragady connected to football is caused in some way by hooligans. Hillsborough was caused by criminal negligence by the police-why were there empty pens next to the one were they all died? Have the police ever apologised - NO. Anyway rant over but this kind of dictatorship makes my blood boil!
I'll be travelling down from London for the match dispite this rediculous ruling. I work with a Poopy fan who's going and London Saints are having their annual Pool & Darts match against London Skates next Tuesday in the City as a warm up (better not let Burrows know where - he'll probably ban it) the're a good bunch, we have played them over the last 3 years (and won every time of course!!)
There won't be any trouble, just a good p.ss up, lots of banter and of course us lifting the trophy again!
I wanted to go to the match with Pompey Tony who runs the London Supporters Club and Sarah le Skate from work but can't because of this stupid rule. But we will be meeting back at Waterloo after the game to kick each others heads in (not really!) we'll have a few beers and wind each other up about the result(hopefully it will be me winding them up) anyway must finish-off up the Kipper to watch Chelsea get beat(hopefully!) Cheers

dockboy says...
7:56pm Tue 6 Dec 11

Act like animals, be treated like animals

Strasbourg Saint says...
10:35pm Tue 6 Dec 11

CrouchEndReg wrote:
I for one will be submitting a complaint about Burrows comments regarding Hillsborough,Ibrox & Bradford. All 3 dreadful incidents had NOTHING to do with football hooligans. I just shows the guy's ignorance that he thinks any tragady connected to football is caused in some way by hooligans. Hillsborough was caused by criminal negligence by the police-why were there empty pens next to the one were they all died? Have the police ever apologised - NO. Anyway rant over but this kind of dictatorship makes my blood boil! I'll be travelling down from London for the match dispite this rediculous ruling. I work with a Poopy fan who's going and London Saints are having their annual Pool & Darts match against London Skates next Tuesday in the City as a warm up (better not let Burrows know where - he'll probably ban it) the're a good bunch, we have played them over the last 3 years (and won every time of course!!) There won't be any trouble, just a good p.ss up, lots of banter and of course us lifting the trophy again! I wanted to go to the match with Pompey Tony who runs the London Supporters Club and Sarah le Skate from work but can't because of this stupid rule. But we will be meeting back at Waterloo after the game to kick each others heads in (not really!) we'll have a few beers and wind each other up about the result(hopefully it will be me winding them up) anyway must finish-off up the Kipper to watch Chelsea get beat(hopefully!) Cheers
Like it, CrouchEnd. You do realise that, just like the game on Sunday week, NOTHING but a win in the darts match will do!

No pressure then!

ruddy says...
10:55pm Tue 6 Dec 11

It will be interesting to see if they can shepherd all 3200 saints fans back onto the coaches after the game. Just a thought.

CrouchEndReg says...
11:01pm Tue 6 Dec 11

Stras. I'll let you know the result next Tuesday night. A good warm up for the big event. There will be photos on the London Saints web site - bring em on mate!

St.Yorkie says...
10:34am Wed 7 Dec 11

The closer it comes - the more I feel this is total overkill.
In the Cup game at SMS - Pompey fans were given the freedom of the City before and after the game. So much so they came out at the same time as Saints fans - to one side a steel barrier and the other a bit of fencing to stop SFA! I smiled at all the antics on Youtube - but me and some friends were already locked in a pub by then!
For the sensible people who go to matches - like a beer, like a bit of banter, and making their own way there this is an inconvenience. However I have seen alcohol and banter go one step too far and all hell break loose. The problem as I see it - it only takes one to start and then mob mentality takes over!
It doesn't take very much to light this fuse...but is it really all about "protecting Saints" or pandering to the "Blue Few Scroats" hard image?

ShakeyWiffles says...
7:35pm Thu 8 Dec 11

dockboy wrote:
Act like animals, be treated like animals
WUM

PM0289 says...
12:38am Fri 9 Dec 11

So you people that are moaning its over the top.....let's take all the police and safety measures away thats been put in place......and watch you moan and slate the police after that there weren't enough to protect you when it kicked off and that 'your rights' were breached because you weren't looked after......

PM0289 says...
12:39am Fri 9 Dec 11

So you people that are moaning its over the top.....let's take all the police and safety measures away thats been put in place......and watch you moan and slate the police after that there weren't enough to protect you when it kicked off and that 'your rights' were breached because you weren't looked after......

Pompey72 says...
7:22am Mon 12 Dec 11

PM0289 wrote:
So you people that are moaning its over the top.....let's take all the police and safety measures away thats been put in place......and watch you moan and slate the police after that there weren't enough to protect you when it kicked off and that 'your rights' were breached because you weren't looked after......
That solution is as idiotic and ill-conceived as Burrows. I don't think a single person for one second would suggest complete removal of policing and you've clearly missed the point. The subject singularly being discussed is the appalling use of 'kettling', 'herding', 'bubbling' call it what you will, to transport thousands of law-abiding football supporters to watch a football match, in an insane, prejudiced, insensitive way. Innocent until proven guilty?

Pompey72 says...
7:22am Mon 12 Dec 11

PM0289 wrote:
So you people that are moaning its over the top.....let's take all the police and safety measures away thats been put in place......and watch you moan and slate the police after that there weren't enough to protect you when it kicked off and that 'your rights' were breached because you weren't looked after......
That solution is as idiotic and ill-conceived as Burrows. I don't think a single person for one second would suggest complete removal of policing and you've clearly missed the point. The subject singularly being discussed is the appalling use of 'kettling', 'herding', 'bubbling' call it what you will, to transport thousands of law-abiding football supporters to watch a football match, in an insane, prejudiced, insensitive way. Innocent until proven guilty?

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