Liverpool 'must play by cruise turnaround rules' (From Daily Echo)

Liverpool will have to pay back EU money, the EU is not allowed to give a competitive advantage, if other ports are complaing that this will happen those issues have to be respected. FWIW I think Liverpool will pay whatever anyway, we must invest in improving our city (or attract investment) if we want to attract the best and in a backward way, this may help the city of Southampton in getting improvements required.

Lets beat them at football too!!!

The 21m is still not correct, when will this newspaper stop printing deliberate untruths?.It does not add to the articles credibility if your figures are wrong.
Liverpool City Council have taken legal advice on this and the statement from Mike Penning was also positive on this matter.

Never trust Mickey Mousers.

arizonan wrote:
The 21m is still not correct, when will this newspaper stop printing deliberate untruths?.It does not add to the articles credibility if your figures are wrong.
Liverpool City Council have taken legal advice on this and the statement from Mike Penning was also positive on this matter.

It was stated that you couldn't start turnarounds until you had clearance from the EU so why are you starting them?
You must realise this is seen as the same way you got the grants in the first place?
Surely you should wait for that ruling ? what happens if this goes ahead & the EU recalls it's grant & takes Liverpool council to court over it's contempt for EU laws?

It would appear that Liverpool can do what it likes, well they do say ignorance is bliss. I wouldn't hold my breath on the government or the E.U. taking any action against them and i think they are working on the same basis, but i think they are being very silly by risking antagonising the E.U. it could cost them very dear for the sake of waiting a few weeks.

I guess the news that Thompson Cruises are considering starting from Liverpool won't go down very well with you, and saying things like "ignorance is bliss" and Mickey Mousers is just juvenile.

I have come to the conclusion that nobody in Southampton can read.

I have gone out opf my way to explain to you all that the total figure of £ 20 million that you keep qouting is wrong,

THE FIGURE IS APPROXIMATELY £ 17.5 MILLION.

I also tried to explain the situation at Langton Dock and the safety issues ( PLEASE READ WHAT I SAY ).

The 740-passenger Ocean Countess is usually berthed at Langton Dock when it does turn-around cruises from Liverpool. Since we now have change of use for the river terminal it is sensible that the ship will now use the terminal in view of the safety issues at Langton Dock.

This ship sails turn-arouind cruises from Liverpool already, it has not been acquired at the expense of another port.

Have I made myself clear or do some of you need this repeating after every other posting on this site.

Chris storey wrote:
I guess the news that Thompson Cruises are considering starting from Liverpool won't go down very well with you, and saying things like "ignorance is bliss" and Mickey Mousers is just juvenile.

You can have Thomson Cruises or anybody else for that matter as long as we are all playing on a level playing field, but you would be the first shouting and screaming if the E.U. gave Southampton millions of pounds to develop. I don't have any grudges against Liverpool all we want is fairness.

Chris storey wrote:
I guess the news that Thompson Cruises are considering starting from Liverpool won't go down very well with you, and saying things like "ignorance is bliss" and Mickey Mousers is just juvenile.

You can have Thomson Cruises or anybody else for that matter as long as we are all playing on a level playing field, but you would be the first shouting and screaming if the E.U. gave Southampton millions of pounds to develop. I don't have any grudges against Liverpool all we want is fairness.

So Richard Williams is trying to get out of town until the Morrell affair blows over. We won't forget and we expect a full investigation by the Echo of Liargate.

Liverpool has waited very patiently for the government to decide if it could have change of use for its river terminal, in fact it has been extremely patient as the decision was due last year,
The reasoning for a change are many and are complex.


Since everybody in Southampton appears to know very little about the turnaround facility at Langton Dock , I will try and explain.

In order for a ship to enter Langton Dock it has to turn against the tide before entering the lock entrance into the dock system. Fred Olsen's
ship " Boudicca " is not a modern super cruise ship and is relatively small by todays standard but when it was entering the lock there was about 4 feet or less either side of the hull, because of the dangers involved Fred Olsen withdrew the survice.

This amongst other reasons was why in order to hold onto our existing turn-around traffic an application was made to fully utilize the new cruise terminal and to pay an amount decided by an independent assessor of the UK taxpayers grant back to the government.

We have had all the super cruise ships visiting in the last few years including " The World " which is the only private residential community-at-sea where its Residents
may travel the globe without ever leaving home which is back with us next year, ( I believe it will not be calling at Southampton ).We know the cruise ship companies love coming to Liverpool and we know that some of them will definately base turn-around routes here.
If you want to know what cruise customers want and think then you should go to

http://www.cruises.c

o.uk/673-cruise_chat

/29160-liverpool_cru

ise_terminal.html

after all the cruise lines have to supply what the market wants or people will go to a competitor.

When I was a Long Distance Lorry Driver a while ago the only city our Insurance company would not insure us for parking overnight was Liverpool. They said the risk to the Driver the load or the truck was to great for them to cover. If I was not allowed to park my truck there overnight I certainly would not take a boat load of American tourists there.

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
Liverpool has waited very patiently for the government to decide if it could have change of use for its river terminal, in fact it has been extremely patient as the decision was due last year,
The reasoning for a change are many and are complex.


Since everybody in Southampton appears to know very little about the turnaround facility at Langton Dock , I will try and explain.

In order for a ship to enter Langton Dock it has to turn against the tide before entering the lock entrance into the dock system. Fred Olsen's
ship " Boudicca " is not a modern super cruise ship and is relatively small by todays standard but when it was entering the lock there was about 4 feet or less either side of the hull, because of the dangers involved Fred Olsen withdrew the survice.

This amongst other reasons was why in order to hold onto our existing turn-around traffic an application was made to fully utilize the new cruise terminal and to pay an amount decided by an independent assessor of the UK taxpayers grant back to the government.

We have had all the super cruise ships visiting in the last few years including " The World " which is the only private residential community-at-sea where its Residents
may travel the globe without ever leaving home which is back with us next year, ( I believe it will not be calling at Southampton ).We know the cruise ship companies love coming to Liverpool and we know that some of them will definately base turn-around routes here.
If you want to know what cruise customers want and think then you should go to

http://www.cruises.c


o.uk/673-cruise_chat


/29160-liverpool_cru


ise_terminal.html

after all the cruise lines have to supply what the market wants or people will go to a competitor.

Look all we're asking is why is your council now risking everything you've achieved by what ever means by using this facility before the EU has ruled on it?
Mike Penning stated you should not use it until the EU has given the okay so why put it all at risk?
Do your council think as travellers think? Do it then they'll let you carry on doing it?

Lord Ikea wrote:
When I was a Long Distance Lorry Driver a while ago the only city our Insurance company would not insure us for parking overnight was Liverpool. They said the risk to the Driver the load or the truck was to great for them to cover. If I was not allowed to park my truck there overnight I certainly would not take a boat load of American tourists there.

Not only are you a liar, you are a fool.

To Lord Ikea, if you had a valuable load that thieves were looking for, I don't think you, or your load would be safe anywhere in the World. Thieves do have transport, legitimate or not, you know.

loosehead says...
9:05pm Mon 28 May 12

Look all we're asking is why is your council now risking everything you've achieved by what ever means by using this facility before the EU has ruled on it?
Mike Penning stated you should not use it until the EU has given the okay so why put it all at risk?
Do your council think as travellers think? Do it then they'll let you carry on doing it?

--------------------
---

The answer is quite simple. the EU did not put a restriction of trade clause in the arrangement , so when the UK government allowed the change of use there is technically no problem. If the EU want the grant back then I for one see no objection to them having it. If I win the Euro lottery this Friday then I personally will pay the grant back myself to stop this endless sniping at my fair city.

I would like to thank the " Southern Daily Echo " for publishing such a beautiful photograph showing the location from which cruise passengers can start and stop there voyages from the " World Hertiage Site " at Liverpools Pier Head.

Great to see you all still whining today, the first ship leaves whether you like it or not.Liverpool achieved its goal and you lost big time, I'm so smug today!!

http://www.liverpool
echo.co.uk/liverpool
-news/local-news/201
2/05/29/liverpool-ri
ver-mersey-cruise-te
rminal-to-launch-fir
st-turnaround-cruise
-for-40-years-today-
100252-31066307/

http://www.liverpool
echo.co.uk/liverpool
-news/local-news/201
2/05/29/wirral-inter
national-trade-centr
e-multi-million-poun
d-deal-signed-in-bei
jing-100252-31066304
/

Enjoy.

Who's laughing now wrote:
Great to see you all still whining today, the first ship leaves whether you like it or not.Liverpool achieved its goal and you lost big time, I'm so smug today!!

I hope you carry on laughing when the EU states you've broken competition laws & through Government grant & an EU grant both of which you've gained through lies gives you an unfair advantage & ask for their money back & demand you pay that & the Government grant back immediately

THE FIRST passengers arrived at the turnaround cruise liner facility when the Ocean Countess docked this morning.

Baggage handlers placed luggage inside the temporary building ready for the 800 passengers to collect at the end of their cruise from Honfleur, France, Guernsey and the Scilly Isles.

The first passengers started filtering through shortly before 9am.

Many seemed unaware that they were part of an historic moment as the first people to use the new facilities, but said they were impressed with what they saw.

Mike Riley, 56, from Bradford, said: "It'll be good to have a proper facility up north as it's a lot more convenient. It's also good for Liverpool as it will encourage more cruise ships to come here."

Lee Horton, frrom Heywood, near Manchester, said: "We're highly honoured to be the first people to use the new facility. We've been following it on the local news and we'll definitely be using it again."

Chris Mooney, from Huddersfield, said: "It seems very well organised and will be a real asset to Liverpool. Why on earth do you want to go to Southampton?"

Read More http://www.liverpool
echo.co.uk/liverpool
-news/local-news//tm
_headline=first-pass
engers-arrive-at-liv
erpool-s-turnaround-
cruise-facility-as-o
cean-countess-docks-
in-city%26method=ful
l%26objectid=3106726
1%26siteid=100252-na
me_page.html#ixzz1wF
dMDph9

Love the last line.

loosehead wrote:

Who's laughing now wrote:
Great to see you all still whining today, the first ship leaves whether you like it or not.Liverpool achieved its goal and you lost big time, I'm so smug today!!

I hope you carry on laughing when the EU states you've broken competition laws & through Government grant & an EU grant both of which you've gained through lies gives you an unfair advantage & ask for their money back & demand you pay that & the Government grant back immediately

We're already looking into paying it back in a lump some, it wont be a problem, you're clutching at straws now and in the meantime, I'm still laughing.

Sum

Perhaps the owners of the Southampton docks and the Southampton council should ask themselves why they are now going to loose business to Liverpool instead of some councillers wasting council tax payers money going to meetings abroad.

Is it due to the charges being too high at the port of Southampton !

Cruise companies are in the business to make a profit for their shareholders and will go where they think they get the best turn round docking deals and can attract passengers to join their ships.

It is obvious that Southampton is not considered the best turn round port in the UK by the cruising companies who are now going to use Liverpool.

.

.......'It is obvious that Southampton is not considered the best turn round port in the UK by the cruising companies who are now going to use Liverpool'......
Actually if you check the current facts, Liverpool will have around 10-12 turnrounds this year from a relatively small company operating small ships from one small terminal.
Possibly 20 calls in 2013 when Fred Olsen transfer some of their calls from Portsmouth
In comparison Southampton has over 400 calls from 4 terminals.
Now if you believe the Liverpool papers this will, of course, increase by hundreds in years to come.
However the recently elected Mayor of Liverpool has publically stated that Liverpool are not looking to win more that it's previous % of UK turnround calls (which operated from Gladstone Dock), so as not to breach EU rules.
There does appear to be some conflict of facts and aspirations here!!!!

phil maccavity wrote:
.......'It is obvious that Southampton is not considered the best turn round port in the UK by the cruising companies who are now going to use Liverpool'......
Actually if you check the current facts, Liverpool will have around 10-12 turnrounds this year from a relatively small company operating small ships from one small terminal.
Possibly 20 calls in 2013 when Fred Olsen transfer some of their calls from Portsmouth
In comparison Southampton has over 400 calls from 4 terminals.
Now if you believe the Liverpool papers this will, of course, increase by hundreds in years to come.
However the recently elected Mayor of Liverpool has publically stated that Liverpool are not looking to win more that it's previous % of UK turnround calls (which operated from Gladstone Dock), so as not to breach EU rules.
There does appear to be some conflict of facts and aspirations here!!!!

So Phil they aim all their venom at Southampton but in fact they're stabbing the one port who supported them in the back!
That Port was of course Portsmouth which has Fred Olsen & the cruise companies Liverpool are going after or who have now got?
I wonder in the beginning if Portsmouth would have backed them knowing this would happen?
Out of interest how many tides does the Mersey have compared to Southampton Water?
doesn't the Tides set how many ships can sail & how many times a day or doesn't that matter anymore?

This question has never been answered, even though I have asked it many, many times.
Perhaps at this stage of the proceedings, one of the pro Southampton crowd could answer it now.
As this is going to be such a small operation, as everyone knew it would be, given the present day monopoly that Southampton has, why the huge fight put up by this monopoly, to a virtual start up operation???
This question has never been answered.
If the positions had been reversed, Liverpool would never have reacted in this way.
The reason?
Because Liverpool is a very confident place, it always has been and will be in the future.
You have shown your inferiority time and time again.
The Fred Olsen traffic is returning traffic to Liverpool, who withdrew from Langton Dock.
There was no great outcry from Liverpool, when other ports, including Portsmouth, gained at Liverpool's expense.

phil maccavity says...
12:01pm Tue 29 May 12

it's previous % of UK turnround calls (which operated from Gladstone Dock), so as not to breach EU rules.

--------------------
-

When are you going to get your facts right or can't you read what people have told you .

THE DOCK THAT WAS USED WAS CALLED " LANGTON DOCK "

Well it's too late now anyway. Passengers are boarding as we speak, with music and drinks flowing. The sun is shining and the punters all look happy to be there. Chatted to a few who have stopped over at a local hotel too, to take in a play last night. The economic boost begins.

arizonan wrote:
This question has never been answered, even though I have asked it many, many times.
Perhaps at this stage of the proceedings, one of the pro Southampton crowd could answer it now.
As this is going to be such a small operation, as everyone knew it would be, given the present day monopoly that Southampton has, why the huge fight put up by this monopoly, to a virtual start up operation???
This question has never been answered.
If the positions had been reversed, Liverpool would never have reacted in this way.
The reason?
Because Liverpool is a very confident place, it always has been and will be in the future.
You have shown your inferiority time and time again.
The Fred Olsen traffic is returning traffic to Liverpool, who withdrew from Langton Dock.
There was no great outcry from Liverpool, when other ports, including Portsmouth, gained at Liverpool's expense.

We have answered that question time & time again but here goes again!
We apply for a grant for a purpose all above board if we get it you have no right to complain.
you apply for two grants for cruise visits No complaints from anyone.
but even before you've applied you already had an appeal for change of use ready.
You had no intention of using that facility for anything else but turnaround So you lied on your application this is what we're so against.
you now have the okay from Mike Penning as long as the EU okays it & you let him know which way your going to pay the money back.
before the EU has given it's okay or you've come to an agreement with Mike Penning you start turnarounds so breaching the conditions he made.
So you have lied & cheated & totally flouted any agreements you've made.
I hope Mike Penning recalls his permission or asks for the money plus interest is paid straight away.
Let's see what the EU thinks of your actions?

I still think that beautiful photograph you show of our terminal near our " World Heritage Site " would make a very nice publicity shot, after all most other ports are very drab by comparison and passengers can't usually dis-embark straight into a busling city centre.

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
I still think that beautiful photograph you show of our terminal near our " World Heritage Site " would make a very nice publicity shot, after all most other ports are very drab by comparison and passengers can't usually dis-embark straight into a busling city centre.

But will you be showing it as a turnaround facility? as you have just broken the conditions set in place to allow turnarounds?
Please read Mike Penning's statement in reference payments & the EU.
I can quite easily see how happy you the people of Liverpool are to see these ships as my wife & I go down & look at 7 P&O ships in port at the same time but your council could have made this the first & last time for many years you'll see this sight

Last year you had £60 million for rail improvement connected to container traffic at your port. Today this newspaper talks about a further grant of £8 million to improve roads around your dock approaches.
These grants provide assistance to ABP Southampton and will greatly increase the ports ability to grow future traffic ( which for those of you who don't know,means ABP Southamptons profits ).
There is absolutely no difference between this case and Liverpools case for grants
( £68 million of UK grant to aid the port of Southampton and a mere £ 9.2 million of UK grant together with £ 8 million of EU grant ).
This means the UK government have bailed out ABP Southampton by £ 58.8 million more than they gave Liverpool . And that is FACT.

I would like to add that Liverpool have been asked and will payback £8.8 million to the UK government .

By comparison and I read it in this newspaper, ABP Southampton are being asked to stump up approx £ 4 milliuon at most for improvements that are commercially very lucrative in gaining more custom.

My case rests.

Lord Ikea wrote:
When I was a Long Distance Lorry Driver a while ago the only city our Insurance company would not insure us for parking overnight was Liverpool. They said the risk to the Driver the load or the truck was to great for them to cover. If I was not allowed to park my truck there overnight I certainly would not take a boat load of American tourists there.

25 years ago maybe. Times have changed even in this evil, crime ridden place (you're words not mine). Look up more recent statistics you're comments are way off the mark. Lorries are parked all along the dock road overnight nowadays.

I was lucky enough to see the first liner leave the LCT this afternoon. It was historic and emotional.

Well done Liverpool and congratulations to our Northern cruise customers who now have a great additional port with which to sail from. The cruise passenger should come first.

I hope that, if the recent Daily Post headline article suggests, when Southampton bids for EU money, other cities in the UK don't launch a petty, selfish, small-minded, backward-thinking, slanderous, anti-northern campaign to hinder it along the way.

Good luck!

Tom Liverpool wrote:

Lord Ikea wrote:
When I was a Long Distance Lorry Driver a while ago the only city our Insurance company would not insure us for parking overnight was Liverpool. They said the risk to the Driver the load or the truck was to great for them to cover. If I was not allowed to park my truck there overnight I certainly would not take a boat load of American tourists there.

25 years ago maybe. Times have changed even in this evil, crime ridden place (you're words not mine). Look up more recent statistics you're comments are way off the mark. Lorries are parked all along the dock road overnight nowadays.

That was never true then or now, it was lies started by the likes of Bernard Manning and other mancs in order to take the attention away from where they lived.
It must be nice for Ikea to live in a crime free city that"s permanently sunny, it's strange though that the grapes grown their are so sour ;)

I made a short detour on my way to work this morning and saw Ocean Countess tying up at the Cruise Liner Terminal. Not a new liner and not a very big one but a great step forward for our city.
According to the news this afternoon, most of the passengers boarding are from within some 50 to 70 miles from Liverpool - surely nobody would argue that these were Southampton's 'rightful' passengers.
Now that the Liverpool grant issue has been resolved, we are all looking forward to Southampton's repayment of the government money that was spent on improving the road and rail links to its port. When will the Southern Echo start its campaign?

Down here we get three local news stations, 1/ BBC 2/Meridian digital 3/ Meridian HD.
Meridian is suppose to be for the South & south east but we only get news of our area on Digital & the HD version is all about Kent.
On the HD version today they had a story on how you were illegally trying to close Dovers cruise ship industry.
They stated you had illegally started turnarounds from your port before all the conditions were met.
They had many MP's going ape about it & they had councillors doing the same, They also had MEP's swearing to stop your facility in the European Parliament.
Then I switched over to our version & they were running & saying the same thing about the effect on Southamptons cruise industry & they had one MP who's going to bring it up in Parliament .
You lot say it's just us but if you had seen the Dover/Kent reaction you will know we're not the only one's by far & this isn't over by a mile so keep on laughing .
Your council has jumped the gun & might have lost you the lot

By the way, thanks to all concerned at the Southern Echo for that lovely publicity photo of the Liverpool cruise liner facility.

MerseyMart wrote:
By the way, thanks to all concerned at the Southern Echo for that lovely publicity photo of the Liverpool cruise liner facility.

You better keep a copy to record the last time it will happen after your council broke the terms set down by Mike Penning.
Put it ion your photo album under the title Labou Leaders Arrogance Lost Us This!

loosehead wrote:
Down here we get three local news stations, 1/ BBC 2/Meridian digital 3/ Meridian HD.
Meridian is suppose to be for the South & south east but we only get news of our area on Digital & the HD version is all about Kent.
On the HD version today they had a story on how you were illegally trying to close Dovers cruise ship industry.
They stated you had illegally started turnarounds from your port before all the conditions were met.
They had many MP's going ape about it & they had councillors doing the same, They also had MEP's swearing to stop your facility in the European Parliament.
Then I switched over to our version & they were running & saying the same thing about the effect on Southamptons cruise industry & they had one MP who's going to bring it up in Parliament .
You lot say it's just us but if you had seen the Dover/Kent reaction you will know we're not the only one's by far & this isn't over by a mile so keep on laughing .
Your council has jumped the gun & might have lost you the lot

Seems to me Loosehead that it is the ports in your part of the world that are actively seeking to close Liverpool down. Of all the benefits that the cruise liner terminal is promised to bring us, the closure of Dover and Southampton hasn't been mentioned.
You seem to such confidence in Liverpool's attractiveness to the cruise liner industry that it puts us to shame.

MerseyMart wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Down here we get three local news stations, 1/ BBC 2/Meridian digital 3/ Meridian HD.
Meridian is suppose to be for the South & south east but we only get news of our area on Digital & the HD version is all about Kent.
On the HD version today they had a story on how you were illegally trying to close Dovers cruise ship industry.
They stated you had illegally started turnarounds from your port before all the conditions were met.
They had many MP's going ape about it & they had councillors doing the same, They also had MEP's swearing to stop your facility in the European Parliament.
Then I switched over to our version & they were running & saying the same thing about the effect on Southamptons cruise industry & they had one MP who's going to bring it up in Parliament .
You lot say it's just us but if you had seen the Dover/Kent reaction you will know we're not the only one's by far & this isn't over by a mile so keep on laughing .
Your council has jumped the gun & might have lost you the lot

Seems to me Loosehead that it is the ports in your part of the world that are actively seeking to close Liverpool down. Of all the benefits that the cruise liner terminal is promised to bring us, the closure of Dover and Southampton hasn't been mentioned.
You seem to such confidence in Liverpool's attractiveness to the cruise liner industry that it puts us to shame.

Try reading newspapers from Dover & see the truth Oh! North East MEP's & MP's are also going mad about it so it's not a North South thing.
From what I've seen of your pontoon I can't believe that passengers who've paid good money would really like your facility?

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
Last year you had £60 million for rail improvement connected to container traffic at your port. Today this newspaper talks about a further grant of £8 million to improve roads around your dock approaches.
These grants provide assistance to ABP Southampton and will greatly increase the ports ability to grow future traffic ( which for those of you who don't know,means ABP Southamptons profits ).
There is absolutely no difference between this case and Liverpools case for grants
( £68 million of UK grant to aid the port of Southampton and a mere £ 9.2 million of UK grant together with £ 8 million of EU grant ).
This means the UK government have bailed out ABP Southampton by £ 58.8 million more than they gave Liverpool . And that is FACT.

Accept your point about the wrong north dock. I should have said Langton not Gladstone.
However this was a mistake of geography not substance
To correct your own post, the rail grant, referred to, covered an upgrade from Soton to Nuneaton (150+ miles!!) and was from the same pot that provided for rail upgrades to other UK ports including Felixstowe and Liverpool (the Olive Chord branch)
Compared to the £2billion+ grants provided to Liverpool in recent times (including an upgrade of the road system in the Goree, next to the Cruise terminal and more recently £35m to Peel Ports for dredging the channel into Seaforth) , the amount of tax payers money given to this area is paltry.
However it is not so much the amount of the grant money that is the issue but the deceipt in applying for calling cruise status and then immediately seeking to change the rules.
That is the main issue and one that shames a fine city and rankles not just down here but in other ports with cruise facilities built on normal business models.
It may well be that the cruise terminal issue will turn out to be a pyrrhic victory as the European Union's Transport Commissioner, has pointed out that the granting of State Aid to Liverpool's new cruise terminal may well have breached State Aid rules.
Even if Liverpool does not have to pay back the £8.5m EU grant (and if it does Genial Joe will have to dip even more into a supposedly stretched local Town hall budget), the chances of Liverpool maintaining the previous high level of EU grant aid in future is likely to be compromised.

loosehead says...
9:47pm Tue 29 May 12

From what I've seen of your pontoon I can't believe that passengers who've paid good money would really like your facility?

--------------------
----

One of the most important things for a passenger is to embark and dis-embark in a pleasant and attractive scenario. How many cruise passengers can embark or dis-embark in a " World Heritage Site " and find themselves surround by a breathtaking site within yards of their cruise ship.
A wonderful photograph was published a few years ago now
showing a passenger diving into the swimming pool on one of the super cruise ships moored at the Pier Head, with the three graces ( Liver Building , Cunard Building and the Port of Liverpool Building ) immediately behind them. This wasn't done using photoshop this was REAL.

Its about time that Southampton and other critics got REAL to what Liverpool is like as a destination, not the one they are given by the perverse media in this country ( The Leveson inquiry says a lot about ther media ).

If I can get hold of a copy I will send it to the Daily Echo so that they can have it to illustrate further articles about my wonderful home city.

phil maccavity wrote:

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
Last year you had £60 million for rail improvement connected to container traffic at your port. Today this newspaper talks about a further grant of £8 million to improve roads around your dock approaches.
These grants provide assistance to ABP Southampton and will greatly increase the ports ability to grow future traffic ( which for those of you who don't know,means ABP Southamptons profits ).
There is absolutely no difference between this case and Liverpools case for grants
( £68 million of UK grant to aid the port of Southampton and a mere £ 9.2 million of UK grant together with £ 8 million of EU grant ).
This means the UK government have bailed out ABP Southampton by £ 58.8 million more than they gave Liverpool . And that is FACT.

Accept your point about the wrong north dock. I should have said Langton not Gladstone.
However this was a mistake of geography not substance
To correct your own post, the rail grant, referred to, covered an upgrade from Soton to Nuneaton (150+ miles!!) and was from the same pot that provided for rail upgrades to other UK ports including Felixstowe and Liverpool (the Olive Chord branch)
Compared to the £2billion+ grants provided to Liverpool in recent times (including an upgrade of the road system in the Goree, next to the Cruise terminal and more recently £35m to Peel Ports for dredging the channel into Seaforth) , the amount of tax payers money given to this area is paltry.
However it is not so much the amount of the grant money that is the issue but the deceipt in applying for calling cruise status and then immediately seeking to change the rules.
That is the main issue and one that shames a fine city and rankles not just down here but in other ports with cruise facilities built on normal business models.
It may well be that the cruise terminal issue will turn out to be a pyrrhic victory as the European Union's Transport Commissioner, has pointed out that the granting of State Aid to Liverpool's new cruise terminal may well have breached State Aid rules.
Even if Liverpool does not have to pay back the £8.5m EU grant (and if it does Genial Joe will have to dip even more into a supposedly stretched local Town hall budget), the chances of Liverpool maintaining the previous high level of EU grant aid in future is likely to be compromised.

I very much doubt it. Merseyside is slated to get £450m from the EU from 2014-2020. Lots of EU cash has already been used to support local businesses, directly funding the building of hotels, arenas, museums, office spaces, galleries etc. This is no different. You might object to the principal, but it is already well established.

http://www.liverpool
echo.co.uk/liverpool
-news/local-news/201
1/10/12/450m-europea
n-cash-set-for-merse
yside-to-create-jobs
-and-fight-poverty-1
00252-29580666/

People in southhampton should quit crying swallow the sour grapes and start to work to make the city a more attractive place for cruise liners.

No one in liverpool cares about southhampton , its irrelevant , they are busy preparing for the second cruise liner terminal in the multi billion pounds Liverpool waters development. The local politicians are now lobbying national governement for a link to high speed 2, and looking at ways to further improve the city. They are working with chinese investors to bring billions more to the city. WHat is southhampton doing whining and crying. Come on be proactive be positive!!

MrWW wrote:
People in southhampton should quit crying swallow the sour grapes and start to work to make the city a more attractive place for cruise liners.

No one in liverpool cares about southhampton , its irrelevant , they are busy preparing for the second cruise liner terminal in the multi billion pounds Liverpool waters development. The local politicians are now lobbying national governement for a link to high speed 2, and looking at ways to further improve the city. They are working with chinese investors to bring billions more to the city. WHat is southhampton doing whining and crying. Come on be proactive be positive!!

When are you people from Liverpool going to get it?
This isn't just Southampton objecting but all established cruise ports plus now you have Felixstowe crying foul over public money going into the dredging of the Mersey to help your container port?
Please try reading areas like Kent, North East ,Felixstowe & many other local newspapers & you'll see the way you acted & the way your now acting isn't going down to well any where else in the country

These muppets still whingeing about this lol.

Robert.b wrote:
These muppets still whingeing about this lol.

Name calling? so what are you a Diddyman? small in size & I wonder brain capacity?
I don't adhere to people slagging down scousers so why do you call us Muppets?
this is all down to the lies your council have made

EU money often ends up helping private enterprise. However, the cruise terminal is owned by Liverpool City Council, it also hosts ferries from the Isle of Mann and Wirral. It's not a private concern.

The EU money didn't come with any restrictions and I can hardly see them asking anyone to pay regeneration money back. How silly!

One of the most important things for a passenger is to embark and dis-embark in a pleasant and attractive scenario. How many cruise passengers can embark or dis-embark in a " World Heritage Site " and find themselves surround by a breathtaking site within yards of their cruise ship.
A wonderful photograph was published a few years ago now
showing a passenger diving into the swimming pool on one of the super cruise ships moored at the Pier Head, with the three graces ( Liver Building , Cunard Building and the Port of Liverpool Building ) immediately behind them. This wasn't done using photoshop this was REAL.

Its about time that Southampton and other critics got REAL to what Liverpool is like as a destination, not the one they are given by the perverse media in this country ( The Leveson inquiry says a lot about ther media ).

If I can get hold of a copy I will send it to the Daily Echo so that they can have it to illustrate further articles about my wonderful home city.

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
One of the most important things for a passenger is to embark and dis-embark in a pleasant and attractive scenario. How many cruise passengers can embark or dis-embark in a " World Heritage Site " and find themselves surround by a breathtaking site within yards of their cruise ship.
A wonderful photograph was published a few years ago now
showing a passenger diving into the swimming pool on one of the super cruise ships moored at the Pier Head, with the three graces ( Liver Building , Cunard Building and the Port of Liverpool Building ) immediately behind them. This wasn't done using photoshop this was REAL.

Its about time that Southampton and other critics got REAL to what Liverpool is like as a destination, not the one they are given by the perverse media in this country ( The Leveson inquiry says a lot about ther media ).

If I can get hold of a copy I will send it to the Daily Echo so that they can have it to illustrate further articles about my wonderful home city.

I love the city of my father but your council either Liberal or Labour are liars & have acted underhand all through this saga.
As I've said before my father was a scouse

What a bunch of whinging southerners, as I have said before, if Liverpool is so bad then people will not come here but they do, in their millions each year. Watch and weep Wingehampton as Liverpool grows while you deminish.

liberty2 wrote:
What a bunch of whinging southerners, as I have said before, if Liverpool is so bad then people will not come here but they do, in their millions each year. Watch and weep Wingehampton as Liverpool grows while you deminish.

Exactly how long ago was Liverpool Englands second city? what happened to all the people living there?

You asked the question here is the answer courtesy of Wikipedia.

" For periods during the 19th century the wealth of Liverpool exceeded that of London itself, and Liverpool's Custom House was the single largest contributor to the British Exchequer. Liverpool's status can be judged from the fact that it was the only British city ever to have its own Whitehall office.
The first United States consul anywhere in the world, James Maury, was appointed to Liverpool in 1790, and remained in office for 39 years.

As early as 1851 the city was described as "the New York of Europe" and its buildings, constructed on a heroic, even megalomaniacal scale stand witness to the supreme confidence and ambition of the city at the turn of the 20th century.
Liverpool was also the site of the UK's first provincial airport, operating from 1930.

Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No.1, often seen as Britain's Imperial anthem, was dedicated by the composer to the Liverpool Orchestral Society and had its premiere in the city in October 1901.

During the Second World War, the critical strategic importance of Liverpool was recognised by both Hitler and Churchill, with the city suffering a blitz second only to London's, and the pivotal Battle of the Atlantic being planned, fought and won from Liverpool.


Notes

^ a b Ten facts about Liverpool Telegraph, 4 June 2003
^ Hatton, Brian (2008). Shifted tideways: Liverpool's changing fortunes. The Architectural Review.
^ Henderson, W.O. (1933). The Liverpool office in London. Economica xiii. London School of Economics. pp. 473–479.
^ The Bankers' Magazine. v.11. London: Groombridge & Sons. 1851.
^ "Spirit of the Blitz : Liverpool in the Second World War". Liverpool Museums. 2003. Retrieved 2010-09-13.
^ "Merseyside Maritime Museum, Sheet No. 4: Battle of the Atlantic". Liverpoolmuseums.org
.uk. 1939-09-03. Retrieved 2010-08-03.




During the Second World War Liverpool was the worst bombed city after London and in post war years a large portion of the population was re-housed in new towns ie:- Runcorn New Town, Winsford, Skelmersdale etc

loosehead wrote:

liberty2 wrote:
What a bunch of whinging southerners, as I have said before, if Liverpool is so bad then people will not come here but they do, in their millions each year. Watch and weep Wingehampton as Liverpool grows while you deminish.

Exactly how long ago was Liverpool Englands second city? what happened to all the people living there?

If loosehead requires any more information regarding why Liverpool is such a marvelous place, here is more information to digest.

Ferries, railways, transatlantic steamships, municipal trams, electric trains and the helicopter were all pioneered in Liverpool as modes of mass transit. In 1829 and 1836 the first underground railway tunnels in the world were constructed under Liverpool.

The first School for the Blind, Mechanics' Institute, High School for Girls, council house and Juvenile Court were all founded in Liverpool. The RSPCA, NSPCC, Age Concern, Relate, Citizen's Advice Bureau and Legal Aid all evolved from work in the city.

In the field of public health, the first lifeboat station, public baths and wash-houses, sanitary act, medical officer for health, district nurse, slum clearance, purpose-built ambulance, X-ray medical diagnosis, school of tropical medicine, motorised municipal fire-engine, free school milk and school meals, cancer research centre, and zoonosis research centre all originated in Liverpool. The first British Nobel Prize was awarded in 1902 to Ronald Ross, professor at the School of Tropical Medicine, the first school of its kind in the world. Orthopaedic surgery was pioneered in Liverpool by Hugh Owen Thomas, and modern medical anaesthetics by Thomas Cecil Gray.
Oriel Chambers, the first 'modern' building in the world

In finance, Liverpool founded the UK's first Underwriters' Association and the first Institute of Accountants. The Western world's first financial derivatives (cotton futures) were traded on the Liverpool Cotton Exchange in the late 1700s.

In the arts, Liverpool was home to the first lending library, athenaeum society, arts centre and public art conservation centre. Liverpool is also home to the UK's oldest surviving classical orchestra, the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra.

In 1864, Peter Ellis built the world's first iron-framed, curtain-walled office building, Oriel Chambers, the prototype of the skyscraper. The UK's first purpose-built department store was Compton House, completed in 1867 for the retailer J.R. Jeffrey, to replace a previous building which had burned down in 1865. It was the largest store in the world at the time.

Between 1862 and 1867, Liverpool held an annual Grand Olympic Festival. Devised by John Hulley and Charles Melly, these games were the first to be wholly amateur in nature and international in outlook. The programme of the first modern Olympiad in Athens in 1896 was almost identical to that of the Liverpool Olympics. In 1865 Hulley co-founded the National Olympian Association in Liverpool, a forerunner of the British Olympic Association. Its articles of foundation provided the framework for the International Olympic Charter.

All Facts courtesy of Wikipedia.

That's nothing, Benny Hill was born in Southampton.
And apparently a few famous people went there.

Proud from LIVERPOOL.

Well said indeed!

Proud from LIVERPOOL wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that nobody in Southampton can read.

I have gone out opf my way to explain to you all that the total figure of £ 20 million that you keep qouting is wrong,

THE FIGURE IS APPROXIMATELY £ 17.5 MILLION.

I also tried to explain the situation at Langton Dock and the safety issues ( PLEASE READ WHAT I SAY ).

The 740-passenger Ocean Countess is usually berthed at Langton Dock when it does turn-around cruises from Liverpool. Since we now have change of use for the river terminal it is sensible that the ship will now use the terminal in view of the safety issues at Langton Dock.

This ship sails turn-arouind cruises from Liverpool already, it has not been acquired at the expense of another port.

Have I made myself clear or do some of you need this repeating after every other posting on this site.

Cant have your cake and eat it Scouser boy. PLAY BY THE RULES not as it suits the liverbirds !