Will it be Cork or Wanyama for Poch?

Daily Echo: Victor Wanyama Victor Wanyama

MAURICIO Pochettino must wrestle with a big selection dilemma ahead of Saints’ clash with Stoke at St Mary’s this Saturday.

The manager has to weigh up whether to start with £12.5m man Victor Wanyama or Jack Cork in midfield alongside Morgan Schneiderlin.

Wanyama returned to the line-up at Fulham last weekend, having been out of action since early December with a hairline leg fracture.

His addition to the team came at the expense of Cork, who was dropped to the substitutes’ bench in order to accommodate the Kenyan.

However, perhaps unsurprisingly on his first outing since December 4, Wanyama showed signs of rust in the first-half.

And, having also picked up his fifth yellow card of the season, he was withdrawn at the interval.

Cork replaced him and helped spark Saints into life, as Pochettino’s men romped home to a 3-0 victory at Craven Cottage.

Afterwards, captain Adam Lallana pinpointed the introduction of Cork as the turning point in the match.

As a result, it will be fascinating to see who is chosen to partner Schneiderlin this Saturday.

Wanyama has been Pochettino’s preferred option up to now, with Cork, a key figure in the previous two campaigns, having been demoted to a back-up role.

But the 24-year-old’s form since stepping in for his injured teammate has built a strong case for him to receive a more regular starting role.

Statistics released yesterday by the CIES Football Observatory, which analyses performances in Europe’s top five leagues, ranked Cork as the Premier League’s best-performing central/defensive midfielder in January – ahead of Schneiderlin, in second.

Debate has rumbled on for much of the season over whether it is Wanyama or Cork who is best suited to partnering the Frenchman.

The Schneiderlin and Wanyama combination has been a formidable one in the holding midfield area this term, and an important ingredient in Saints’ solidity at the back, with the Kenyan’s defensive abilities often having a devastating effect on the opposition’s attacking threat.

Against some of the Premier League’s best sides, who can deny Saints the ability to dominate play, Wanyama has particularly shone, breaking up and disrupting their efforts to pass through the centre of the pitch.

Cork is also strong defensively, although perhaps not to the level of Wanyama, but he does offer greater ability on the ball, with a notably higher pass success rate.

As a result, he tends to look more comfortable than his colleague does when the onus is largely on Saints to play.

Whatever way Pochettino decides to go this weekend, one thing is for sure – he has two very good options to pick from.

Comments (71)

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7:47am Thu 6 Feb 14

White and red till dead says...

Got to be Cork. Wanyama's passing and tackling are woeful, even when he is not rusty after a layoff.
Got to be Cork. Wanyama's passing and tackling are woeful, even when he is not rusty after a layoff. White and red till dead

7:50am Thu 6 Feb 14

Gosport Red and White says...

Cork, Cork, Cork. Should be first choice for Saints....and England.
Cork, Cork, Cork. Should be first choice for Saints....and England. Gosport Red and White

7:51am Thu 6 Feb 14

iswhite10 says...

White and red till dead wrote:
Got to be Cork. Wanyama's passing and tackling are woeful, even when he is not rusty after a layoff.
I would start with Wanyama to nullify the Stoke boot boys and bting Corky on once we've taken charge.
[quote][p][bold]White and red till dead[/bold] wrote: Got to be Cork. Wanyama's passing and tackling are woeful, even when he is not rusty after a layoff.[/p][/quote]I would start with Wanyama to nullify the Stoke boot boys and bting Corky on once we've taken charge. iswhite10

7:52am Thu 6 Feb 14

sasmike says...

must be corky
must be corky sasmike

7:57am Thu 6 Feb 14

Golden_Salamander says...

A lot of supporters only "see the game" with the ball "at the feet" of the players in question. In which there is no question who to pick.

However football is not as simple as that, the first question MP has to answer is can we match them up at corners and set plays. Stoke are a big team with Crouch, Shawcross etc. and Saints have a lot of players like Adam, Davis, Clyne etc who struggle to defend in one to one situations from set plays.
.
If Saints match-up stoke from set plays then Saints greater skill level with Adam, JayRod etc will decide the outcome of the game.
However if we go into the game outnumbered say 4-3 with height from set plays then we may end up with 70% of the play but struggle every time we concede a corner.

I will leave it to MP to decide between Jack and Victor and supporter whoever he thinks THE TEAM will perform best with.
I will also tell the moaners around me who criticise VW when he makes a poor pass that there is more to helping the team win than just passing the ball.
.
A lot of supporters only "see the game" with the ball "at the feet" of the players in question. In which there is no question who to pick. However football is not as simple as that, the first question MP has to answer is can we match them up at corners and set plays. Stoke are a big team with Crouch, Shawcross etc. and Saints have a lot of players like Adam, Davis, Clyne etc who struggle to defend in one to one situations from set plays. . If Saints match-up stoke from set plays then Saints greater skill level with Adam, JayRod etc will decide the outcome of the game. However if we go into the game outnumbered say 4-3 with height from set plays then we may end up with 70% of the play but struggle every time we concede a corner. I will leave it to MP to decide between Jack and Victor and supporter whoever he thinks THE TEAM will perform best with. I will also tell the moaners around me who criticise VW when he makes a poor pass that there is more to helping the team win than just passing the ball. . Golden_Salamander

8:01am Thu 6 Feb 14

LeTissLeGod says...

Cork every time
Cork every time LeTissLeGod

8:05am Thu 6 Feb 14

andoru says...

My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on.
My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on. andoru

8:29am Thu 6 Feb 14

SaintAsh1964 says...

Jack is the better footballer, passes the ball better, retains possession better,gives the ball away less, gives fewer fouls away, has a better engine.
Jack is the better footballer.
COYS
Jack is the better footballer, passes the ball better, retains possession better,gives the ball away less, gives fewer fouls away, has a better engine. Jack is the better footballer. COYS SaintAsh1964

8:39am Thu 6 Feb 14

elvis says...

Gosport Red and White wrote:
Cork, Cork, Cork. Should be first choice for Saints....and England.
culdnt agree more .... best midfielder by far x
[quote][p][bold]Gosport Red and White[/bold] wrote: Cork, Cork, Cork. Should be first choice for Saints....and England.[/p][/quote]culdnt agree more .... best midfielder by far x elvis

8:43am Thu 6 Feb 14

Blackknight says...

Both?
Both? Blackknight

8:57am Thu 6 Feb 14

Norwegian Saint says...

Remember earlier this season I got a huge negative score for saying Vic was poor BUT after a couple more games he played better and better until his injury.
I think MoPo will start with Vic but I feel Cork had to wait for his chance... now Vic should.
Surely we must have the best midfield in the country?!
Remember earlier this season I got a huge negative score for saying Vic was poor BUT after a couple more games he played better and better until his injury. I think MoPo will start with Vic but I feel Cork had to wait for his chance... now Vic should. Surely we must have the best midfield in the country?! Norwegian Saint

9:02am Thu 6 Feb 14

THE12THMAN says...

What a lovely selection headache to have, I am sure we can trust M.P. To make the right decision on Saturday. COYR
What a lovely selection headache to have, I am sure we can trust M.P. To make the right decision on Saturday. COYR THE12THMAN

9:03am Thu 6 Feb 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

The clue is in Gordon Simpson's final sentence. Both are good options.

However, I do wish we could move on from this idea that Cork was dropped last weekend. We have a squad and selections are based on far more than simply choosing a 'favourite 11'. Who ever MP goes with (and as Blacknight says, he could pick both Cork and Wanyama), there will have been a lot of thought put into it and MP and his team will have a far better idea which 11 to put on the field than the DE journos or us.
The clue is in Gordon Simpson's final sentence. Both are good options. However, I do wish we could move on from this idea that Cork was dropped last weekend. We have a squad and selections are based on far more than simply choosing a 'favourite 11'. Who ever MP goes with (and as Blacknight says, he could pick both Cork and Wanyama), there will have been a lot of thought put into it and MP and his team will have a far better idea which 11 to put on the field than the DE journos or us. Strasbourg Saint

9:12am Thu 6 Feb 14

eyresiesaint says...

Very difficult really as wanyama gives the back four a lot of protection and does the dirty work and then just moves the ball on, cork since he has been back has been my motm most games, so if poch could manage to put all three in some how then that would be great, maybe with cork pushing further up,

We need an early goal against Stoke to open them up as I can see them doing a wet spam and west brom and sitting behind the ball, and just trying to score of set plays.

COYR
Very difficult really as wanyama gives the back four a lot of protection and does the dirty work and then just moves the ball on, cork since he has been back has been my motm most games, so if poch could manage to put all three in some how then that would be great, maybe with cork pushing further up, We need an early goal against Stoke to open them up as I can see them doing a wet spam and west brom and sitting behind the ball, and just trying to score of set plays. COYR eyresiesaint

9:14am Thu 6 Feb 14

Alicesdad says...

Cork is class and I really hope we keep him, he only needs to score now and then to make the place his own. I was surprised when he didn't get selected from the start of the season, his impact last season was immense. I've said this before.

But then again I don't know whats going on.
What' happening?
Cork is class and I really hope we keep him, he only needs to score now and then to make the place his own. I was surprised when he didn't get selected from the start of the season, his impact last season was immense. I've said this before. But then again I don't know whats going on. What' happening? Alicesdad

9:17am Thu 6 Feb 14

Folkestone Saint says...

Who says Cork was "dropped to the bench" this could have been Mopo's game plan all along, use VW untill the oppo start to tire then bring on Corky to rip them apart with his briliance, we used to call it tac-tic's
Who says Cork was "dropped to the bench" this could have been Mopo's game plan all along, use VW untill the oppo start to tire then bring on Corky to rip them apart with his briliance, we used to call it tac-tic's Folkestone Saint

9:24am Thu 6 Feb 14

Puddletown Saint says...

Both. Would have a midfield three of Spider Jack and Victor. Tough on Davo who has been excellent this season. Can then swap and change as MoPo sees fit:

Boruc Clyne Shaw Fonte Yosida Cork Spider Vic J Rod Adam SRL

3-0 to the Saints COYR
Both. Would have a midfield three of Spider Jack and Victor. Tough on Davo who has been excellent this season. Can then swap and change as MoPo sees fit: Boruc Clyne Shaw Fonte Yosida Cork Spider Vic J Rod Adam SRL 3-0 to the Saints COYR Puddletown Saint

9:28am Thu 6 Feb 14

beanwalking says...

How about Cork and victor with Spider on the bench. That would sort out the problem Not
How about Cork and victor with Spider on the bench. That would sort out the problem Not beanwalking

9:36am Thu 6 Feb 14

miltonnroad76 says...

drop davis and push spider up more?
drop davis and push spider up more? miltonnroad76

9:36am Thu 6 Feb 14

Clever Dick says...

Puddletown Saint wrote:
Both. Would have a midfield three of Spider Jack and Victor. Tough on Davo who has been excellent this season. Can then swap and change as MoPo sees fit:

Boruc Clyne Shaw Fonte Yosida Cork Spider Vic J Rod Adam SRL

3-0 to the Saints COYR
I'd go with that side too. Push either Jack or Spider a bit further forward with a bit of licence to open them up. If that doesn't work then Steve Davis can replace whoever is not up to scratch on the day. It's a pretty good problem to be faced with as Steve Davis is probably more capable of getting forward and nicking us a goal.
[quote][p][bold]Puddletown Saint[/bold] wrote: Both. Would have a midfield three of Spider Jack and Victor. Tough on Davo who has been excellent this season. Can then swap and change as MoPo sees fit: Boruc Clyne Shaw Fonte Yosida Cork Spider Vic J Rod Adam SRL 3-0 to the Saints COYR[/p][/quote]I'd go with that side too. Push either Jack or Spider a bit further forward with a bit of licence to open them up. If that doesn't work then Steve Davis can replace whoever is not up to scratch on the day. It's a pretty good problem to be faced with as Steve Davis is probably more capable of getting forward and nicking us a goal. Clever Dick

9:44am Thu 6 Feb 14

The stripes says...

VW still needs game time to get up to speed, so Cork would have to start regardless of who is the better player or more suited to the job. When VW is on top of his game again Poch can look at the 2 and decide who'd fair better against the opponents at that time. Right now, Corky's the man.
VW still needs game time to get up to speed, so Cork would have to start regardless of who is the better player or more suited to the job. When VW is on top of his game again Poch can look at the 2 and decide who'd fair better against the opponents at that time. Right now, Corky's the man. The stripes

9:47am Thu 6 Feb 14

Wembley76 says...

Has to be Cork....the problem is that having invested £12m Mo Po feel obliged to play VW. No doubt VW will be a great player, but he needs time to adjust to the pace of the Premiership. Start with JC and progressively bring on VW
Has to be Cork....the problem is that having invested £12m Mo Po feel obliged to play VW. No doubt VW will be a great player, but he needs time to adjust to the pace of the Premiership. Start with JC and progressively bring on VW Wembley76

9:48am Thu 6 Feb 14

george chivers says...

andoru wrote:
My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on.
The goals were scored in the second half when Cork was on the pitch. Build on that positive, get the points in the bag, then bring on Wanyama to gain confidence when the game is easier to play in. A double positive.

Always assuming there are no injuries that force the introduction of VW earlier on.

STID COYR
[quote][p][bold]andoru[/bold] wrote: My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on.[/p][/quote]The goals were scored in the second half when Cork was on the pitch. Build on that positive, get the points in the bag, then bring on Wanyama to gain confidence when the game is easier to play in. A double positive. Always assuming there are no injuries that force the introduction of VW earlier on. STID COYR george chivers

10:12am Thu 6 Feb 14

therealredarmy says...

@Wembley76

Wanyama did just that until he got injured. He adjusted well to the EPL, He is not match fit he need an easy game and play the full game .
@Wembley76 Wanyama did just that until he got injured. He adjusted well to the EPL, He is not match fit he need an easy game and play the full game . therealredarmy

10:20am Thu 6 Feb 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

I'd use Cork in the games we expect to win with his better distribution and football brain and Wanyama against sides like Chelsea and Man City where we need to break them up.
I'd use Cork in the games we expect to win with his better distribution and football brain and Wanyama against sides like Chelsea and Man City where we need to break them up. Seedhouse the Unrepentant

10:41am Thu 6 Feb 14

SouthLondonSaint says...

I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.
I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work. SouthLondonSaint

10:45am Thu 6 Feb 14

Confucious says...

If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision.

My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work.
If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision. My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work. Confucious

10:50am Thu 6 Feb 14

el caballo santos101 says...

well I`m glad I haven't got to choose, MP`s got a tough choice and whoever he picks there will be those on here saying he`s go it wrong.
as for playing all three together, I said when we brought Big Vic that maybe MP should play them all. however having had time to think about it I don't think it would work. we would lose the link up play of S Davis or JWP, who both also fill in at full back when Luke, Clyne or Chambers go on runs. we would also be too defensive minded and narrow with all three on the pitch.
its a great problem to have, and if we want to progress we will need to have similar problems in most positions.
interesting to see that we had the top 2 defensive CM`s in the prem over Jan though. we all thought it and its nice to see the stats back us up.
personally I would do the same as we did at Fulham, start with Big Vic then replace at half time. I wont say that if MP starts with cork then he`s wrong, after all MP knows more than me, but then who doesn't!
well I`m glad I haven't got to choose, MP`s got a tough choice and whoever he picks there will be those on here saying he`s go it wrong. as for playing all three together, I said when we brought Big Vic that maybe MP should play them all. however having had time to think about it I don't think it would work. we would lose the link up play of S Davis or JWP, who both also fill in at full back when Luke, Clyne or Chambers go on runs. we would also be too defensive minded and narrow with all three on the pitch. its a great problem to have, and if we want to progress we will need to have similar problems in most positions. interesting to see that we had the top 2 defensive CM`s in the prem over Jan though. we all thought it and its nice to see the stats back us up. personally I would do the same as we did at Fulham, start with Big Vic then replace at half time. I wont say that if MP starts with cork then he`s wrong, after all MP knows more than me, but then who doesn't! el caballo santos101

10:52am Thu 6 Feb 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone!

We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there.
We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone! We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there. Seedhouse the Unrepentant

10:55am Thu 6 Feb 14

Confucious says...

SouthLondonSaint wrote:
I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.
Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.
[quote][p][bold]SouthLondonSaint[/bold] wrote: I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.[/p][/quote]Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs. Confucious

10:57am Thu 6 Feb 14

Alicesdad says...

Confucious wrote:
If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision.

My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work.
Sound principles in my view. It's down to MoPo who needs to get his MoJo working against the MoFo opposition.

MoPo knows what's going on...
.. and he knows what's happening ...
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision. My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work.[/p][/quote]Sound principles in my view. It's down to MoPo who needs to get his MoJo working against the MoFo opposition. MoPo knows what's going on... .. and he knows what's happening ... Alicesdad

10:58am Thu 6 Feb 14

Beer Monster says...

Depends on who we're playing, but as a rule I'd start with Cork, then when we're cruising at 3-0, replace someone (whoever may be knackered or flailing at the time) in defence or midfield with Wanyama to help stave off any thoughts of revival from the opposition.

Take Wet Spam by the balls and start with Wanyama as we did against Fulham.
Depends on who we're playing, but as a rule I'd start with Cork, then when we're cruising at 3-0, replace someone (whoever may be knackered or flailing at the time) in defence or midfield with Wanyama to help stave off any thoughts of revival from the opposition. Take Wet Spam by the balls and start with Wanyama as we did against Fulham. Beer Monster

11:09am Thu 6 Feb 14

J7junctionseven says...

andoru wrote:
My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on.
Good comment. First option gets my vote.
2-0 Saints
COYR
[quote][p][bold]andoru[/bold] wrote: My instinct was to say Cork, then bring on Wanyama for some game time when we are 3-0 up. But then I thought that, even under Mark Hughes' adjusted system, Stoke have never quite abandoned their rough-and-tumble approach to the game. Wanyama is more suited to this, so maybe do as against Fulham and start with him, only to spring the brilliance of Cork on the unsuspecting thugs later on.[/p][/quote]Good comment. First option gets my vote. 2-0 Saints COYR J7junctionseven

11:11am Thu 6 Feb 14

Fatty x Ford Worker says...

Victor certainly gets my vote for the first half Stoke plays the high long ball then bring on Corky for the second half sorted!
Victor certainly gets my vote for the first half Stoke plays the high long ball then bring on Corky for the second half sorted! Fatty x Ford Worker

11:13am Thu 6 Feb 14

J7junctionseven says...

Confucious wrote:
SouthLondonSaint wrote:
I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.
Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.
In a NS.....(Nut Shell)
COYR
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SouthLondonSaint[/bold] wrote: I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.[/p][/quote]Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.[/p][/quote]In a NS.....(Nut Shell) COYR J7junctionseven

11:15am Thu 6 Feb 14

seany1966 says...

As Wambam is lacking match fittness stick him in along side Fonte and drop Yoshie , he's played in that position for Celtic ... Might be worth a try .....
As Wambam is lacking match fittness stick him in along side Fonte and drop Yoshie , he's played in that position for Celtic ... Might be worth a try ..... seany1966

11:20am Thu 6 Feb 14

right back in the bar says...

JC is the more complete footballer and a proven top performer. This is my only grumble with MoPo: JC's performances since he got his match fitness back ought to justify VW having to fight for his place rather than being automatic first choice - as appeared to be the case at Fulham.
JC is the more complete footballer and a proven top performer. This is my only grumble with MoPo: JC's performances since he got his match fitness back ought to justify VW having to fight for his place rather than being automatic first choice - as appeared to be the case at Fulham. right back in the bar

11:30am Thu 6 Feb 14

callcopse says...

Confucious wrote:
If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision.

However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision.

My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work.
Don't get any splinters in your aris, Confucious, sitting on that fence!

Seriously though it's only Stoke - even Man U nearly fluked a draw with them the other day, so they should be a pushover for our brave midfield, as long as it's not too windy this time.
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: If it turns out that Stoke focus on muscling it with loads of hoof balls into the box in wet and blustery conditions causing MoPo to play Victor for his height and stopping power - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. If it turns out that despite Stoke's tactics and the conditions, Corky is played for his industry and creative skills - and it works a treat - I will be the first to applaud the decision. However, if Wanyama is played and it doesn't work a treat or if Corky is played and it doesn't work a treat then I will be the first to criticise the decision. My advice to MoPo is therefore crystal clear - choose the one which works and avoid the one which doesn't work.[/p][/quote]Don't get any splinters in your aris, Confucious, sitting on that fence! Seriously though it's only Stoke - even Man U nearly fluked a draw with them the other day, so they should be a pushover for our brave midfield, as long as it's not too windy this time. callcopse

11:32am Thu 6 Feb 14

Churchill Saint says...

We have depth in the defensive midfield department but lack depth at centre back. It has got to be worth a try pushing VW into the back four alongside Jose, and keeping MS/JC in midfield. The fixtures this month are easier (not easy!) than the rest, so it would be a better time to experiment.
I am sure MoPo has considered all the options and is by far best qualified to make the decision
We have depth in the defensive midfield department but lack depth at centre back. It has got to be worth a try pushing VW into the back four alongside Jose, and keeping MS/JC in midfield. The fixtures this month are easier (not easy!) than the rest, so it would be a better time to experiment. I am sure MoPo has considered all the options and is by far best qualified to make the decision Churchill Saint

11:41am Thu 6 Feb 14

milton road says...

Thought Vic looked a month off match fitness. In fact his performance first half was embarrassing and I felt sorry for him. He looked three divisions out of his depth and that was just against Fulham. he should have to fight for his place like Clyne has had to. When both are fully fit he and JC contrast so much so that you play one against a certain type of side and the other against a different type of side. Cork is the better all round player and has done enough to make Vic bide his time to get back. The half time substitution was that influential I believe it was the difference between a win and a defeat. In the last 12 games league and cup we have only lost 3. Chelsea we were not good enough, Everton we should of had a point, and Spurs if it wasn't for a third string defence and their blunders we would of won. JC has been our midfield player in the league games and I don't see anything needs changing.
Davis is a good fierce midfielder unsung hero who works his socks off and interchanges his place JWP. The other two Morgan and Adam are automatics, JC has earnt his place and his form has been good, Vic should wait his time.
Thought Vic looked a month off match fitness. In fact his performance first half was embarrassing and I felt sorry for him. He looked three divisions out of his depth and that was just against Fulham. he should have to fight for his place like Clyne has had to. When both are fully fit he and JC contrast so much so that you play one against a certain type of side and the other against a different type of side. Cork is the better all round player and has done enough to make Vic bide his time to get back. The half time substitution was that influential I believe it was the difference between a win and a defeat. In the last 12 games league and cup we have only lost 3. Chelsea we were not good enough, Everton we should of had a point, and Spurs if it wasn't for a third string defence and their blunders we would of won. JC has been our midfield player in the league games and I don't see anything needs changing. Davis is a good fierce midfielder unsung hero who works his socks off and interchanges his place JWP. The other two Morgan and Adam are automatics, JC has earnt his place and his form has been good, Vic should wait his time. milton road

11:47am Thu 6 Feb 14

Jan28th1984 says...

The weather is going to be bad on Saturday so the ball will be up in the air more. Also we are facing a very physical team who are good in the air and well-organised at set plays.
With this in mind I would say VW is the better choice, even though he is just back from injury.
It is possible I suppose to play Cork and Spider alongside him and drop Davis. Davis can replace any of these three without problems later on if required....
The weather is going to be bad on Saturday so the ball will be up in the air more. Also we are facing a very physical team who are good in the air and well-organised at set plays. With this in mind I would say VW is the better choice, even though he is just back from injury. It is possible I suppose to play Cork and Spider alongside him and drop Davis. Davis can replace any of these three without problems later on if required.... Jan28th1984

11:49am Thu 6 Feb 14

Clever Dick says...

Confucious wrote:
SouthLondonSaint wrote:
I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.
Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.
Don't tell us..........tell MoPo. Obviously by your normal method of a quick call to Mrs. Wilson.
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SouthLondonSaint[/bold] wrote: I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.[/p][/quote]Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.[/p][/quote]Don't tell us..........tell MoPo. Obviously by your normal method of a quick call to Mrs. Wilson. Clever Dick

12:18pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Mush On The Beach says...

Lots of good points well made above boys. There is no best player as they both bring slightly different qualities which a coach has to be delighted with and I guess should help make the decision of who plays to suit the circumstance of the opposition.
Victor certainly looked off the pace last game and needs to gain match fitness while Corky can consider himself unlucky not to have started.

If we want to keep progressing to next levels of football, this conversation will become more and more prevalent. How many on-field players are a shoe-in each week at Citeh or Chelski? I hope the debate gets to be a bigger problem for us fans in all positions, that surely means we are continuing to head on the bus ride to paradise ..... Tickets please!
Lots of good points well made above boys. There is no best player as they both bring slightly different qualities which a coach has to be delighted with and I guess should help make the decision of who plays to suit the circumstance of the opposition. Victor certainly looked off the pace last game and needs to gain match fitness while Corky can consider himself unlucky not to have started. If we want to keep progressing to next levels of football, this conversation will become more and more prevalent. How many on-field players are a shoe-in each week at Citeh or Chelski? I hope the debate gets to be a bigger problem for us fans in all positions, that surely means we are continuing to head on the bus ride to paradise ..... Tickets please! Mush On The Beach

12:23pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Costa Baz says...

Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job.

My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played.
Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot.

For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football .

I know, I laughed as well.
Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job. My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played. Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot. For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football . I know, I laughed as well. Costa Baz

12:32pm Thu 6 Feb 14

costa gaz says...

I think Stoke will come and park the bus, so we could sacrifice a central defender and have all three playing in front of a back 3 with all of them alternating in getting foward.
Stil,l a very nice selection headache for MP, the trouble is keeping all three happy, time will tell.
I think Stoke will come and park the bus, so we could sacrifice a central defender and have all three playing in front of a back 3 with all of them alternating in getting foward. Stil,l a very nice selection headache for MP, the trouble is keeping all three happy, time will tell. costa gaz

12:37pm Thu 6 Feb 14

DisplacedFan says...

Costa Baz wrote:
Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job.

My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played.
Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot.

For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football .

I know, I laughed as well.
We will not be complacent. For me the first ten minutes will tell us how the first half will go. If we come out and run a them, they will crumble. Their ability to score is low, but you never know. We are light years ahead of them. Time to show it. Lets have the three musketeers score again.
[quote][p][bold]Costa Baz[/bold] wrote: Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job. My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played. Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot. For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football . I know, I laughed as well.[/p][/quote]We will not be complacent. For me the first ten minutes will tell us how the first half will go. If we come out and run a them, they will crumble. Their ability to score is low, but you never know. We are light years ahead of them. Time to show it. Lets have the three musketeers score again. DisplacedFan

12:38pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

Costa Baz wrote:
Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job.

My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played.
Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot.

For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football .

I know, I laughed as well.
Do you remember the article on Jack Cork on here a while ago? He more or less said he would have to consider his options as he wanted to play football but loved it here. He also said that MoPo hadn't spoken to him - that was the bit that worried me. Now Adam has obviously felt the need to point out the bleeding obvious that Cork turned the game at Fulham from a bore draw in to an outstanding 2nd half 3-0 trouncing. I do wonder if there is a blind spot here.
[quote][p][bold]Costa Baz[/bold] wrote: Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job. My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played. Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot. For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football . I know, I laughed as well.[/p][/quote]Do you remember the article on Jack Cork on here a while ago? He more or less said he would have to consider his options as he wanted to play football but loved it here. He also said that MoPo hadn't spoken to him - that was the bit that worried me. Now Adam has obviously felt the need to point out the bleeding obvious that Cork turned the game at Fulham from a bore draw in to an outstanding 2nd half 3-0 trouncing. I do wonder if there is a blind spot here. Seedhouse the Unrepentant

12:48pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Clemster says...

Tempted to play both also, and have three sat in the midfield with just RL up front and JR and AL supporting. Not sure how this would balance up though to be honest.
Tempted to play both also, and have three sat in the midfield with just RL up front and JR and AL supporting. Not sure how this would balance up though to be honest. Clemster

12:49pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Mush On The Beach says...

costa gaz wrote:
I think Stoke will come and park the bus, so we could sacrifice a central defender and have all three playing in front of a back 3 with all of them alternating in getting foward.
Stil,l a very nice selection headache for MP, the trouble is keeping all three happy, time will tell.
Moyes thought the same when Stoke came to Old Trafford. I saw the game and have to hand it to Hughsie, he set his team up to go for it and they ran Manure ragged in the first half. Having said that, their away record is atrocious this season. Saints to win and Geordies to lose at Chelski takes us up to 8th.
[quote][p][bold]costa gaz[/bold] wrote: I think Stoke will come and park the bus, so we could sacrifice a central defender and have all three playing in front of a back 3 with all of them alternating in getting foward. Stil,l a very nice selection headache for MP, the trouble is keeping all three happy, time will tell.[/p][/quote]Moyes thought the same when Stoke came to Old Trafford. I saw the game and have to hand it to Hughsie, he set his team up to go for it and they ran Manure ragged in the first half. Having said that, their away record is atrocious this season. Saints to win and Geordies to lose at Chelski takes us up to 8th. Mush On The Beach

1:22pm Thu 6 Feb 14

saints fan #1 says...

VW first half, JC second half.
VW batter their bullish play in the first half.
JC to pick out the passes second half and turn the game on its head.
3 points all the way.
VW first half, JC second half. VW batter their bullish play in the first half. JC to pick out the passes second half and turn the game on its head. 3 points all the way. saints fan #1

1:26pm Thu 6 Feb 14

saints fan #1 says...

VW first half JC second half
VW to batter their bullish play
JC to pick out the passes and turn the game.
3 points all the way
VW first half JC second half VW to batter their bullish play JC to pick out the passes and turn the game. 3 points all the way saints fan #1

1:54pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Santa Retfordia says...

Jack's been brilliant of late but it's worth remembering that when he first came in for the injured Victor he was rusty as hell too. It takes players a couple of games to get up to speed, especially in that position, so don't judge Victor on last week.

But both are brilliant options. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both start, seeing as Jack's speaking at today's press conference which normally means we can expect him to feature.
Jack's been brilliant of late but it's worth remembering that when he first came in for the injured Victor he was rusty as hell too. It takes players a couple of games to get up to speed, especially in that position, so don't judge Victor on last week. But both are brilliant options. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both start, seeing as Jack's speaking at today's press conference which normally means we can expect him to feature. Santa Retfordia

2:09pm Thu 6 Feb 14

therealredarmy says...

@Santa Retfordia

Thank you for that comment at last somebody who recognise it ! I certainly remember that we lost several games as well during December when Wanyama was injured. Cork had to fill the gap and he was rusty and I think we lost 4 and won 1 in December because Cork wasn't Match fit so please give Wanyama some time to get back
@Santa Retfordia Thank you for that comment at last somebody who recognise it ! I certainly remember that we lost several games as well during December when Wanyama was injured. Cork had to fill the gap and he was rusty and I think we lost 4 and won 1 in December because Cork wasn't Match fit so please give Wanyama some time to get back therealredarmy

2:20pm Thu 6 Feb 14

just kidding says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone!

We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there.
You are right about that, keeps everyone on their toe's. Be great though if we could sneak a twelfth player in now and again, get Corky to stand behind Victor while the Ref does a head count.
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone! We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there.[/p][/quote]You are right about that, keeps everyone on their toe's. Be great though if we could sneak a twelfth player in now and again, get Corky to stand behind Victor while the Ref does a head count. just kidding

2:21pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

Santa Retfordia wrote:
Jack's been brilliant of late but it's worth remembering that when he first came in for the injured Victor he was rusty as hell too. It takes players a couple of games to get up to speed, especially in that position, so don't judge Victor on last week.

But both are brilliant options. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both start, seeing as Jack's speaking at today's press conference which normally means we can expect him to feature.
Same with Yoshida. He was crap when he came in rusty but is doing just fine now.
[quote][p][bold]Santa Retfordia[/bold] wrote: Jack's been brilliant of late but it's worth remembering that when he first came in for the injured Victor he was rusty as hell too. It takes players a couple of games to get up to speed, especially in that position, so don't judge Victor on last week. But both are brilliant options. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both start, seeing as Jack's speaking at today's press conference which normally means we can expect him to feature.[/p][/quote]Same with Yoshida. He was crap when he came in rusty but is doing just fine now. Seedhouse the Unrepentant

2:30pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

just kidding wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone!

We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there.
You are right about that, keeps everyone on their toe's. Be great though if we could sneak a twelfth player in now and again, get Corky to stand behind Victor while the Ref does a head count.
Lol. That's the thing with these two, Victor is built like a brick shithouse whilst Jack is quite slight yet still wins tackles. One finesses the ball off the opposition the other flattens them!

Jack needs to score goals and Victor up his range of passing to become really consummate players.
[quote][p][bold]just kidding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: We have been concerned about a lack of depth elsewhere now we seem concerned about accommodating everyone! We need competition for places and that has been no more evident than at right back. Chambers replaced an injured Clyne and then kept him out. Clyne got a chance but didn't take it so Chambers was back and Clyne got the cup. Last week Clyne came on for an injured Chambers and played a blinder so expect to see him start against Stoke. If we can do that all over the park then we will be right up there.[/p][/quote]You are right about that, keeps everyone on their toe's. Be great though if we could sneak a twelfth player in now and again, get Corky to stand behind Victor while the Ref does a head count.[/p][/quote]Lol. That's the thing with these two, Victor is built like a brick shithouse whilst Jack is quite slight yet still wins tackles. One finesses the ball off the opposition the other flattens them! Jack needs to score goals and Victor up his range of passing to become really consummate players. Seedhouse the Unrepentant

2:37pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Sainty saint saint says...

For me it all depends on whether Charlie Adam is playing. He's known for his cowardly, dirty, career-threatening challenges and I think Big Vic is likely to come off better than Cork would.
For me it all depends on whether Charlie Adam is playing. He's known for his cowardly, dirty, career-threatening challenges and I think Big Vic is likely to come off better than Cork would. Sainty saint saint

2:44pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Egomaniac says...

I don't care to be honest - as long as we pick up three points ……….!!
I don't care to be honest - as long as we pick up three points ……….!! Egomaniac

2:53pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

First Point:

After the Fulham match, not only DID MP praise Jack, he also said that he had been 'rested' to the bench because he was worn out after having given his all during the previous 3 matches.

With this in mind, either:
1. MP was saying it as it was, he hadn't 'dropped' Jack and was right to rest him rather than throw him in from the start and expect to get a solid first half out of him.
2. MP did drop Jack, got it wrong and lied in his post-match comments.

Personally, I think it was the first of these. Presumably, those saying Cork was dropped believe the second.
First Point: After the Fulham match, not only DID MP praise Jack, he also said that he had been 'rested' to the bench because he was worn out after having given his all during the previous 3 matches. With this in mind, either: 1. MP was saying it as it was, he hadn't 'dropped' Jack and was right to rest him rather than throw him in from the start and expect to get a solid first half out of him. 2. MP did drop Jack, got it wrong and lied in his post-match comments. Personally, I think it was the first of these. Presumably, those saying Cork was dropped believe the second. Strasbourg Saint

2:55pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Santa Retfordia says...

Sainty saint saint wrote:
For me it all depends on whether Charlie Adam is playing. He's known for his cowardly, dirty, career-threatening challenges and I think Big Vic is likely to come off better than Cork would.
This is true. I've noticed that Stoke have, of late, been scoring a lot of goals from the boots of Adam and Walters hitting them from distance, rather than getting behind the back four. We therefore need someone in front of our defence who will latch straight onto these two and flatten them before they can get a shot away.

In this respect, I think Victor would have the edge.
[quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: For me it all depends on whether Charlie Adam is playing. He's known for his cowardly, dirty, career-threatening challenges and I think Big Vic is likely to come off better than Cork would.[/p][/quote]This is true. I've noticed that Stoke have, of late, been scoring a lot of goals from the boots of Adam and Walters hitting them from distance, rather than getting behind the back four. We therefore need someone in front of our defence who will latch straight onto these two and flatten them before they can get a shot away. In this respect, I think Victor would have the edge. Santa Retfordia

2:58pm Thu 6 Feb 14

J7junctionseven says...

Egomaniac wrote:
I don't care to be honest - as long as we pick up three points ……….!!
That!!
COYR
[quote][p][bold]Egomaniac[/bold] wrote: I don't care to be honest - as long as we pick up three points ……….!![/p][/quote]That!! COYR J7junctionseven

3:01pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Second Point:

Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home).

Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve.

Or:

Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.
Second Point: Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home). Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve. Or: Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working. Strasbourg Saint

3:13pm Thu 6 Feb 14

CB FRY LIVES says...

I trust in MP'S managerial ability to get the decision right.Whoever is picked i trust that SAINTS will bag the 3 points and former Saints player Mark Hughes will go home pointless.
Talking of SAINTS old boys it was good to see both Kevin Davies and Lee Holmes in action last night for Preston against Forest who had another ex Saints Dan Harding playing.-No Danny Fox though.
Maybe after we beat Sunderland in the next round we will play Forest on our way to Wembley and an FA CUP Final victory.
COYR
I trust in MP'S managerial ability to get the decision right.Whoever is picked i trust that SAINTS will bag the 3 points and former Saints player Mark Hughes will go home pointless. Talking of SAINTS old boys it was good to see both Kevin Davies and Lee Holmes in action last night for Preston against Forest who had another ex Saints Dan Harding playing.-No Danny Fox though. Maybe after we beat Sunderland in the next round we will play Forest on our way to Wembley and an FA CUP Final victory. COYR CB FRY LIVES

3:21pm Thu 6 Feb 14

angus mc coatup says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Second Point:

Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home).

Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve.

Or:

Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.
Good points Stras, Competition is what drives evolution. And footballers are no different, good players can get better if given the right environment and healthy rivalry. In my opinion Cork is better this season than he was last, And that is probably down to the arrival of Victor. Good to see Dejan and Gaston back in training, should soon be back in the fray once again

On another note, It was sad to see that Sam Gallaghers father has passed away, so my sincere condolences go out to him and his family.
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Second Point: Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home). Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve. Or: Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.[/p][/quote]Good points Stras, Competition is what drives evolution. And footballers are no different, good players can get better if given the right environment and healthy rivalry. In my opinion Cork is better this season than he was last, And that is probably down to the arrival of Victor. Good to see Dejan and Gaston back in training, should soon be back in the fray once again On another note, It was sad to see that Sam Gallaghers father has passed away, so my sincere condolences go out to him and his family. angus mc coatup

3:36pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

angus mc coatup wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Second Point:

Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home).

Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve.

Or:

Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.
Good points Stras, Competition is what drives evolution. And footballers are no different, good players can get better if given the right environment and healthy rivalry. In my opinion Cork is better this season than he was last, And that is probably down to the arrival of Victor. Good to see Dejan and Gaston back in training, should soon be back in the fray once again

On another note, It was sad to see that Sam Gallaghers father has passed away, so my sincere condolences go out to him and his family.
I hadn't heard the news about Sam's dad. That must be tough at such a time (Sam on the verge of the big time). I echo your sentiments, Angus; sincere condolences to all the Gallagher family.
[quote][p][bold]angus mc coatup[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Second Point: Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home). Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve. Or: Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.[/p][/quote]Good points Stras, Competition is what drives evolution. And footballers are no different, good players can get better if given the right environment and healthy rivalry. In my opinion Cork is better this season than he was last, And that is probably down to the arrival of Victor. Good to see Dejan and Gaston back in training, should soon be back in the fray once again On another note, It was sad to see that Sam Gallaghers father has passed away, so my sincere condolences go out to him and his family.[/p][/quote]I hadn't heard the news about Sam's dad. That must be tough at such a time (Sam on the verge of the big time). I echo your sentiments, Angus; sincere condolences to all the Gallagher family. Strasbourg Saint

4:28pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Costa Baz says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Second Point:

Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home).

Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve.

Or:

Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.
If he is playing psychological games with Cork, I hope it is backed up with a new contract.
His value must be growing all the time and I can see him getting a chance to replace Carrick, in the England squad, after the World Cup, so tie him to a good contract to deter chancres trying to steal him away, next January, for peanuts.

Did I read, at the start of the season, that Cork is a smoker, something MP doesn't agree with? Or was it just a rumour?
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Second Point: Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home). Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve. Or: Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.[/p][/quote]If he is playing psychological games with Cork, I hope it is backed up with a new contract. His value must be growing all the time and I can see him getting a chance to replace Carrick, in the England squad, after the World Cup, so tie him to a good contract to deter chancres trying to steal him away, next January, for peanuts. Did I read, at the start of the season, that Cork is a smoker, something MP doesn't agree with? Or was it just a rumour? Costa Baz

4:32pm Thu 6 Feb 14

SouthLondonSaint says...

J7junctionseven wrote:
Confucious wrote:
SouthLondonSaint wrote:
I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.
Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.
In a NS.....(Nut Shell)
COYR
Lol love it. See what your saying... Maybe if we shouldtry it on FIFA first?
[quote][p][bold]J7junctionseven[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SouthLondonSaint[/bold] wrote: I like the idea of playing all three, VW needs game time, either have him infringing of the back four with JC and MS slightly further forward to distribute the ball to a front three. Or have VW and JC in front of back four with just MS more attacking.... Who knows, would be interesting to see how well it would work.[/p][/quote]Sounds plausible at first sight, but with MS to the right of JF behind a slightly forward JC and parallel with VW, unless AL collects for RL or JR moves left in front of LS, or AL right in front of CC and beside VA's cover for JF - with JC taking initial feeds from AB - the balance will be skewed against RL's holding play for MS to play in JR's wing runs.[/p][/quote]In a NS.....(Nut Shell) COYR[/p][/quote]Lol love it. See what your saying... Maybe if we shouldtry it on FIFA first? SouthLondonSaint

4:34pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Costa Baz says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
Costa Baz wrote:
Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job.

My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played.
Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot.

For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football .

I know, I laughed as well.
Do you remember the article on Jack Cork on here a while ago? He more or less said he would have to consider his options as he wanted to play football but loved it here. He also said that MoPo hadn't spoken to him - that was the bit that worried me. Now Adam has obviously felt the need to point out the bleeding obvious that Cork turned the game at Fulham from a bore draw in to an outstanding 2nd half 3-0 trouncing. I do wonder if there is a blind spot here.
He always looks happy on the training ground, so that would support his comment.

I would imagine there would be a lot of interest, in him, in the summer, if his contract is allowed to run down.
If MP doesn't rate him as a first choice, when all others are fit, it would (in my mind) make sense to extend his contract just to prevent his price dropping.
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Costa Baz[/bold] wrote: Cork for me, simply because he deserves to keep his place, based on what we all believe and the stats prove. He's at the very top of his game and didn't cost us anything near the money Chelsea have just paid for Matic, who has been bought to do a similar job. My only concern is the way MP offered up no praise for his performance, at Fulham, preferring to put the change in our performance down to adjusting how the 3 strikers played. Some managers have blind spots, for certain players. Hope Cork isn't in MP's blind spot. For what it's worth, my mate from Stoke, thinks they will beat us, as Hughes has got them playing football . I know, I laughed as well.[/p][/quote]Do you remember the article on Jack Cork on here a while ago? He more or less said he would have to consider his options as he wanted to play football but loved it here. He also said that MoPo hadn't spoken to him - that was the bit that worried me. Now Adam has obviously felt the need to point out the bleeding obvious that Cork turned the game at Fulham from a bore draw in to an outstanding 2nd half 3-0 trouncing. I do wonder if there is a blind spot here.[/p][/quote]He always looks happy on the training ground, so that would support his comment. I would imagine there would be a lot of interest, in him, in the summer, if his contract is allowed to run down. If MP doesn't rate him as a first choice, when all others are fit, it would (in my mind) make sense to extend his contract just to prevent his price dropping. Costa Baz

7:04pm Thu 6 Feb 14

the south coast is ours says...

got to be cork
got to be cork the south coast is ours

9:11pm Thu 6 Feb 14

up saints says...

i would go with cork but jumping the gun if we get good results in feb will be be saying lovern of yoshida in march
i would go with cork but jumping the gun if we get good results in feb will be be saying lovern of yoshida in march up saints

9:19pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Costa Baz wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Second Point:

Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home).

Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve.

Or:

Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.
If he is playing psychological games with Cork, I hope it is backed up with a new contract.
His value must be growing all the time and I can see him getting a chance to replace Carrick, in the England squad, after the World Cup, so tie him to a good contract to deter chancres trying to steal him away, next January, for peanuts.

Did I read, at the start of the season, that Cork is a smoker, something MP doesn't agree with? Or was it just a rumour?
I hadn't heard that he smokes, I hope he doesn't because it would certainly be a concern for a manager.

I think you speak for us all, Baz, when you mention a new contract. If the way these are handled remains the same as they were under NC, then I guess the club has the matter well in hand. So, when he is offered one, the outcome will depend on Jack and his agent.

Wouldn't it be great if all our young gems stayed for their whole careers and moulded into the squad of world beaters that their collective potential suggests they could?
[quote][p][bold]Costa Baz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Second Point: Towards the end of last season, Jack was regularly subbed off. Let's be fair, having come back from injury and become a key player (almost player of the season), towards the end of last season, the team struggled and certain players, including Jack, were struggling. (Think WBA at home). Those suggesting MP has a blind spot regarding Jack MIGHT (or might not) be right. It could be that MP felt that Jack had reached the height of his ability and the position needed improving - hense the purchase of Victor. If so, maybe MP sees Jack as nothing more than a bit-part player while we buy to improve. Or: Maybe Jack's performances did tail off towards the end of last season; maybe MP noticed this and felt that he needed to push Jack harder. Bring in Victor for competition and hold back on the oozing of adulation that other players get. Make him 'hurt' to get into the team. Perhaps, MP is playing psychological games in order to get the best out of Jack and, if so, I have to say, it's working.[/p][/quote]If he is playing psychological games with Cork, I hope it is backed up with a new contract. His value must be growing all the time and I can see him getting a chance to replace Carrick, in the England squad, after the World Cup, so tie him to a good contract to deter chancres trying to steal him away, next January, for peanuts. Did I read, at the start of the season, that Cork is a smoker, something MP doesn't agree with? Or was it just a rumour?[/p][/quote]I hadn't heard that he smokes, I hope he doesn't because it would certainly be a concern for a manager. I think you speak for us all, Baz, when you mention a new contract. If the way these are handled remains the same as they were under NC, then I guess the club has the matter well in hand. So, when he is offered one, the outcome will depend on Jack and his agent. Wouldn't it be great if all our young gems stayed for their whole careers and moulded into the squad of world beaters that their collective potential suggests they could? Strasbourg Saint

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