Chelsea to bid £4m for Saints teenager?

LUKE SHAW

LUKE SHAW

First published in Sport

SAINTS could be set to receive an approach for teenage defender Luke Shaw, with Chelsea reportedly weighing up a £4m offer for the left back.

Shaw, who turns 17 next week, is one of the brightest prospects in the Saints academy, and has been promoted to the first-team squad for the coming season.

He has been watched by a host of top Premier League clubs, with Arsenal, Manchester City and Manchester United among those who have also been keeping an eye on him.

But Saints have never had any intention of selling the England Under-17 star, and are under no financial pressure to do so.

The club's hand is strengthened further by Shaw having agreed a three-year professional deal with the club 18 months ago. That will come into effect on July 12, when he turns 17.

Shaw has made one first-team appearance so far for Saints, coming off the bench in the final stages of a 1-1 FA Cup draw at Millwall last season.

He was initially scouted by Saints at the age of eight and has been with the club ever since.

Alongside teammate Calum Chambers, Shaw competed for his country earlier this year in the elite qualifying round of the European Under-17 Championship.

The Kingston-born defender has made eight appearances for the England side, scoring once.

Comments (87)

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8:43am Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy. The Salv
  • Score: 0

8:43am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

Do not start all this again I'm still not over Oxo - but we're Premier league now.

He hasn't kicked a ball yet so sod off.
Do not start all this again I'm still not over Oxo - but we're Premier league now. He hasn't kicked a ball yet so sod off. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

8:56am Tue 3 Jul 12

Alicesdad says...

The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.
Makes sense.
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.[/p][/quote]Makes sense. Alicesdad
  • Score: 0

9:01am Tue 3 Jul 12

Alicesdad says...

This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest.

This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects.

If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!!

Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere. Alicesdad
  • Score: 0

9:02am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

Alicesdad wrote:
The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.
Makes sense.
It does but the club are bringing him through at his own pace and we have to trust their judgement and not have their hand forced by others.
[quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.[/p][/quote]Makes sense.[/p][/quote]It does but the club are bringing him through at his own pace and we have to trust their judgement and not have their hand forced by others. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

9:03am Tue 3 Jul 12

Just another reader says...

Hate to say it but I bet he goes. His agent will probably push him unless we give him a sizeable financial package. If he's that good lets see him play for us!
Hate to say it but I bet he goes. His agent will probably push him unless we give him a sizeable financial package. If he's that good lets see him play for us! Just another reader
  • Score: 0

9:03am Tue 3 Jul 12

puppy saint says...

The outcome of this situation will give us a better perspective of the ambitions of SFC and NC in particular. All the talk of challenging for European football will be just that if we allow a player like Shaw to leave. Obviously there is nothing we can do if he decides to do an AOC but if we are to compete at the level mentioned then players of this calibre need to be retained.

Free the Matty Holland One.
The outcome of this situation will give us a better perspective of the ambitions of SFC and NC in particular. All the talk of challenging for European football will be just that if we allow a player like Shaw to leave. Obviously there is nothing we can do if he decides to do an AOC but if we are to compete at the level mentioned then players of this calibre need to be retained. Free the Matty Holland One. puppy saint
  • Score: 0

9:14am Tue 3 Jul 12

saintnicholas says...

I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...
I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here... saintnicholas
  • Score: 0

9:15am Tue 3 Jul 12

franiow says...

We don't need 4 million enough to let Shaw go. I'm sure NC will be firm about this one.
We don't need 4 million enough to let Shaw go. I'm sure NC will be firm about this one. franiow
  • Score: 0

9:21am Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

I think I've made us safe on this one guys. I have told his mum that if he leaves us everyone will be calling him a son of a ****.
I think I've made us safe on this one guys. I have told his mum that if he leaves us everyone will be calling him a son of a ****. Confucious
  • Score: 0

9:23am Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

Confucious wrote:
I think I've made us safe on this one guys. I have told his mum that if he leaves us everyone will be calling him a son of a ****.
Strange - you can't even use the word b!tch on here. Wonder how they police the Crufts site?
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: I think I've made us safe on this one guys. I have told his mum that if he leaves us everyone will be calling him a son of a ****.[/p][/quote]Strange - you can't even use the word b!tch on here. Wonder how they police the Crufts site? Confucious
  • Score: 0

9:25am Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
[quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do. The Salv
  • Score: 0

9:31am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that. St Retford
  • Score: 0

9:35am Tue 3 Jul 12

SaintPC says...

I can't see us selling Luke Shaw for 4m, we all know that we are not a selling club anymore and we don't need the money.

If we are looking to pay over 6m for Butland then that sets the bar for the sort of fee these players can command when they have potential but no experience.
I can't see us selling Luke Shaw for 4m, we all know that we are not a selling club anymore and we don't need the money. If we are looking to pay over 6m for Butland then that sets the bar for the sort of fee these players can command when they have potential but no experience. SaintPC
  • Score: 0

9:37am Tue 3 Jul 12

Condor Man says...

Why waste money on players from inferior leagues like Holland?
Why waste money on players from inferior leagues like Holland? Condor Man
  • Score: 0

9:40am Tue 3 Jul 12

Rednose says...

saintnicholas wrote:
I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...
Thanks saintnicholas for bringing a bit of comfort to this pre-season mayhem. Reading between lines with this story and the young Dutch lad, Saints is where it’s at, great things in store for the Saints, although its hard to forget the gloomy past I know. It’s a shame that OxLC went, but on wards and upwards.
[quote][p][bold]saintnicholas[/bold] wrote: I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...[/p][/quote]Thanks saintnicholas for bringing a bit of comfort to this pre-season mayhem. Reading between lines with this story and the young Dutch lad, Saints is where it’s at, great things in store for the Saints, although its hard to forget the gloomy past I know. It’s a shame that OxLC went, but on wards and upwards. Rednose
  • Score: 0

9:57am Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Condor Man wrote:
Why waste money on players from inferior leagues like Holland?
For the same reason that we 'wasted money' on someone from an inferior league like Sweden (via Scotland) and ended up with a 'hopeless' centre-back who could only bag a handful of goals and was amongst our best players last season.

As for Shaw, it's a win-win. He's not yet ready but will develop nicely with Saints, perhaps with a few months on loan to a Championship club. When he's ready, he'll challenge for a first-team place like anyone else.

However, if, in the future, for whatever reason (finance/ambition/un
happy etc.) he wants to leave, NC will make sure he gets the best deal for the club, just as he did with Oxo.
[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: Why waste money on players from inferior leagues like Holland?[/p][/quote]For the same reason that we 'wasted money' on someone from an inferior league like Sweden (via Scotland) and ended up with a 'hopeless' centre-back who could only bag a handful of goals and was amongst our best players last season. As for Shaw, it's a win-win. He's not yet ready but will develop nicely with Saints, perhaps with a few months on loan to a Championship club. When he's ready, he'll challenge for a first-team place like anyone else. However, if, in the future, for whatever reason (finance/ambition/un happy etc.) he wants to leave, NC will make sure he gets the best deal for the club, just as he did with Oxo. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

9:59am Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
[quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300. Confucious
  • Score: 0

10:05am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
Better ring Nigel then, he obviously hasn't thought of that!
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]Better ring Nigel then, he obviously hasn't thought of that! Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

10:07am Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time.

It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team.

With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level.

Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

10:10am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

Confucious wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.[/p][/quote]My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested. St Retford
  • Score: 0

10:20am Tue 3 Jul 12

dopplershift says...

Won't be leaving based on NC saying the future of the club is to have the majority of players as home grown talent through the youth/academy system. I think the one thing walcott and AOC have shown is if you're young and good you polish the subs bench very well with your a*se. I think players are realising this now.(hopefully)
Won't be leaving based on NC saying the future of the club is to have the majority of players as home grown talent through the youth/academy system. I think the one thing walcott and AOC have shown is if you're young and good you polish the subs bench very well with your a*se. I think players are realising this now.(hopefully) dopplershift
  • Score: 0

10:27am Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not.
.
If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven.
.
Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go. The Salv
  • Score: 0

10:36am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

The Salv wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not.
.
If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven.
.
Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown?

I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.[/p][/quote]Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

10:38am Tue 3 Jul 12

Dickosfc says...

I can’t see this happening, he’ll want to break into the first team with the club he’s been with since 8 years old I’m shaw of that (see what I did there)!!
-
If there is any truth in this then he needs to speak to Jack Cork and ask how many youth players at Chelsea have broke into the first team in recent years.
I can’t see this happening, he’ll want to break into the first team with the club he’s been with since 8 years old I’m shaw of that (see what I did there)!! - If there is any truth in this then he needs to speak to Jack Cork and ask how many youth players at Chelsea have broke into the first team in recent years. Dickosfc
  • Score: 0

10:46am Tue 3 Jul 12

Velleity says...

When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all.

---

Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic).

Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time.

1. Steven Drench – Guiseley
2. James Biggins – ?
3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR
4. Ross Gardner - Shildon
5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere
6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian
7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea
8. Lee Croft – Derby
9. Wayne Rooney – Man U
10. Stacy Long – Stevenage
11. Mark Smyth – Bangor
12. Mat Sadler – Walsall
13. Nicky Eyre - ?
14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors
15. Tom Groves - ?
16. Scott Brown – York City
17. Dorryl Proffitt - ?
18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay

A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree.

---

I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't.

If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid. Velleity
  • Score: 0

10:49am Tue 3 Jul 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

Does anyone actually know how good he is?
Does anyone actually know how good he is? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

10:50am Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.
I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.[/p][/quote]Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.[/p][/quote]I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum" . Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes? . If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it? . I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need! The Salv
  • Score: 0

10:54am Tue 3 Jul 12

Jesus_02 says...

St Retford wrote:
Confucious wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.
I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)
[quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.[/p][/quote]My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.[/p][/quote]I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is) Jesus_02
  • Score: 0

10:57am Tue 3 Jul 12

Alicesdad says...

Best banter we've had in ages.

I was so bored after the Spanish won the European keep-the-ball competition I wondered if anything would wake me up.

I was glad to be reminded that we have budding talent in abundance. This will surely be the way we will end up as Champions League Winners.

Believe. It's great being a Saints fan.
Best banter we've had in ages. I was so bored after the Spanish won the European keep-the-ball competition I wondered if anything would wake me up. I was glad to be reminded that we have budding talent in abundance. This will surely be the way we will end up as Champions League Winners. Believe. It's great being a Saints fan. Alicesdad
  • Score: 0

11:00am Tue 3 Jul 12

up saints says...

sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again up saints
  • Score: 0

11:00am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Confucious wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.
I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)
I have a CD single of 'Pure And Simple', the debut release from Hear'Say. They were the band put together on Popstars (which was basically X-Factor without all the 'fuss') and who starred a young Suzanne Shaw.

If Chelsea are interested, I would go as low as £2m for it.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.[/p][/quote]My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.[/p][/quote]I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)[/p][/quote]I have a CD single of 'Pure And Simple', the debut release from Hear'Say. They were the band put together on Popstars (which was basically X-Factor without all the 'fuss') and who starred a young Suzanne Shaw. If Chelsea are interested, I would go as low as £2m for it. St Retford
  • Score: 0

11:00am Tue 3 Jul 12

Red n White says...

I don't see the advantage of him going to Chelsea. They have a poor record of bringing youth players through, just ask Jack Cork, and have a failing academy. The Premiership can't be used as an advantage either now. Also, £4million as an overall deal is an insult for a future England international, unless it's for Butland. I think he'll be the long-term replacement for Fox, with Buttner (if he joins) being used as back-up/competition for Lallana
I don't see the advantage of him going to Chelsea. They have a poor record of bringing youth players through, just ask Jack Cork, and have a failing academy. The Premiership can't be used as an advantage either now. Also, £4million as an overall deal is an insult for a future England international, unless it's for Butland. I think he'll be the long-term replacement for Fox, with Buttner (if he joins) being used as back-up/competition for Lallana Red n White
  • Score: 0

11:03am Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Confucious wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.
I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)
All of which reminds me of a question which has been bugging me for years.

Martin Shaw? Bodie or Doyle?
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.[/p][/quote]My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.[/p][/quote]I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)[/p][/quote]All of which reminds me of a question which has been bugging me for years. Martin Shaw? Bodie or Doyle? Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

11:11am Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Velleity wrote:
When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it?
.
Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team
.
Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick.
Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana.
.
Point taken?
[quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken? The Salv
  • Score: 0

11:13am Tue 3 Jul 12

anderoo says...

Yet another story printed in the dailypaper that loves to stir things up about Saints.....yo guessed it.....THE DAILY FAIL
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/sport/footbal
l/article-2167860/Ch
elsea-set-bid-4m-Sou
thamptons-Luke-Shaw.
html
Yet another story printed in the dailypaper that loves to stir things up about Saints.....yo guessed it.....THE DAILY FAIL http://www.dailymail .co.uk/sport/footbal l/article-2167860/Ch elsea-set-bid-4m-Sou thamptons-Luke-Shaw. html anderoo
  • Score: 0

11:16am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

The Salv wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.
I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!
I do understand the concept.

All I am saying is those that work with him day in and day out are employed by the club whose CEO has said he wants as much homegrown talent in the squad as possible.

Logic says the pressure is on them to play him asap. The fact they don't means they think he's not quite ready yet. Oxo came through earlier at 16. Aaron Martin has been loaned out at 22. I guess each player has to be analysed on his own merits and the only people who can do that are the coaches who watch them daily.

And yes we do need a goalkeeper!
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.[/p][/quote]Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.[/p][/quote]I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum" . Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes? . If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it? . I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need![/p][/quote]I do understand the concept. All I am saying is those that work with him day in and day out are employed by the club whose CEO has said he wants as much homegrown talent in the squad as possible. Logic says the pressure is on them to play him asap. The fact they don't means they think he's not quite ready yet. Oxo came through earlier at 16. Aaron Martin has been loaned out at 22. I guess each player has to be analysed on his own merits and the only people who can do that are the coaches who watch them daily. And yes we do need a goalkeeper! Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

11:17am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.
[quote][p][bold]up saints[/bold] wrote: sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again[/p][/quote]Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though. St Retford
  • Score: 0

11:18am Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Confucious wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.
My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.
My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.
I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)
All of which reminds me of a question which has been bugging me for years.

Martin Shaw? Bodie or Doyle?
Shawly must be Shaw. Shawfooted and presshaws the ball (though often so overly self-ashawed as to need censhawing for being rather cockshaw).
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.[/p][/quote]My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.[/p][/quote]My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.[/p][/quote]I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)[/p][/quote]All of which reminds me of a question which has been bugging me for years. Martin Shaw? Bodie or Doyle?[/p][/quote]Shawly must be Shaw. Shawfooted and presshaws the ball (though often so overly self-ashawed as to need censhawing for being rather cockshaw). Confucious
  • Score: 0

11:19am Tue 3 Jul 12

SaintPC says...

I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level.

They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years.

The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey.

The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up.

i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future

I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.
I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level. They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years. The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey. The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up. i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free. SaintPC
  • Score: 0

11:34am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

St Retford wrote:
up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.
I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.
[quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]up saints[/bold] wrote: sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again[/p][/quote]Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.[/p][/quote]I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

11:35am Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Does anyone actually know how good he is?
Chelsea.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Does anyone actually know how good he is?[/p][/quote]Chelsea. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

11:39am Tue 3 Jul 12

long memory says...

saintnicholas wrote:
I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...
I do hope you are right,having said that,I can remember almost word for word the same being said by Wayne Bridge,OXO,Theo and one or two others.
[quote][p][bold]saintnicholas[/bold] wrote: I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...[/p][/quote]I do hope you are right,having said that,I can remember almost word for word the same being said by Wayne Bridge,OXO,Theo and one or two others. long memory
  • Score: 0

11:46am Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

The Salv wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.
I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!
Spot on. Some on here are far too quick to deride sensible yet speculative contributions.

I pointed out at the weekend that since the pitch was relaid we have heard nothing from ANY source including the club about how the grass seed has fared in this bad weather. It's fine having a superbly strengthened Saints squad take the field against Wigan amidst all the global media glare that the Prem attracts - but NOT if we have a completely bald pitch.

My smart suggestion that thousands of bored close-season fans would happily pay £2 each to watch the grass grow from the Kingsland stand was also poo-pooed.

If you ask me mate, 90% of regular contributors on here are rather too fond of the bottle.
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.[/p][/quote]Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.[/p][/quote]I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum" . Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes? . If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it? . I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need![/p][/quote]Spot on. Some on here are far too quick to deride sensible yet speculative contributions. I pointed out at the weekend that since the pitch was relaid we have heard nothing from ANY source including the club about how the grass seed has fared in this bad weather. It's fine having a superbly strengthened Saints squad take the field against Wigan amidst all the global media glare that the Prem attracts - but NOT if we have a completely bald pitch. My smart suggestion that thousands of bored close-season fans would happily pay £2 each to watch the grass grow from the Kingsland stand was also poo-pooed. If you ask me mate, 90% of regular contributors on here are rather too fond of the bottle. Confucious
  • Score: 0

11:50am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
St Retford wrote:
up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.
I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.
It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]up saints[/bold] wrote: sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again[/p][/quote]Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.[/p][/quote]I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.[/p][/quote]It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player. St Retford
  • Score: 0

11:50am Tue 3 Jul 12

george chivers says...

The article says his three year contract starts on the 12/07/2012.

Does this mean if Luke Shaw elects to join Chelsea before that date, his current contractual agreement can't stop him leaving.

My interpretation of what has been said, says, he signed a pre contract agreement 18 months ago. Would anybody agree or disagree to my interpretation?

I would like to see him stay.

But I always fear the worst in these situations. Money always seems to rule. i.e. the player's wages and the size of the bidding club, not the transfer fee.

If the interest in the Dutchman is correct perhaps the club think
Luke Shaw will go and they can't stop it happening.

I hope that is not the case.
The article says his three year contract starts on the 12/07/2012. Does this mean if Luke Shaw elects to join Chelsea before that date, his current contractual agreement can't stop him leaving. My interpretation of what has been said, says, he signed a pre contract agreement 18 months ago. Would anybody agree or disagree to my interpretation? I would like to see him stay. But I always fear the worst in these situations. Money always seems to rule. i.e. the player's wages and the size of the bidding club, not the transfer fee. If the interest in the Dutchman is correct perhaps the club think Luke Shaw will go and they can't stop it happening. I hope that is not the case. george chivers
  • Score: 0

11:51am Tue 3 Jul 12

St Retford says...

SaintPC wrote:
I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level.

They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years.

The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey.

The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up.

i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future

I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.
This.

A lot.
[quote][p][bold]SaintPC[/bold] wrote: I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level. They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years. The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey. The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up. i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.[/p][/quote]This. A lot. St Retford
  • Score: 0

11:53am Tue 3 Jul 12

Hobson82 says...

If Chelsea or Man Utd sign him, he may never play for them. They will loan him straight out to Wigan.
Why can't we loan him out to Wigan or Bolton or whoever to get some much needed experience. I do think playing him would be a risk on our first season back in Prem.
Surely we don't need to sell these players now, we can give them what they want and crave, top flight football!!!
If Chelsea or Man Utd sign him, he may never play for them. They will loan him straight out to Wigan. Why can't we loan him out to Wigan or Bolton or whoever to get some much needed experience. I do think playing him would be a risk on our first season back in Prem. Surely we don't need to sell these players now, we can give them what they want and crave, top flight football!!! Hobson82
  • Score: 0

11:58am Tue 3 Jul 12

milton road says...

Most nationals carry this story today.
Theo and Bale were always going to go once we were relegated and didn't get straight back up. Also we wer desperate for cash.
OXO's dad created the OXO situation. I think there is little doubt of that. Saints wanted to keep OXO and were under no pressure to sell other than the player himself, because of unrest created by his father.
We have no need to sell and certainly not for a paltry four million. If the player is potentially as good as thought.
The truth is that at Saints he knows he will get his chance, elsewhere he could be sat on the bench for 6 years.
One paper announced 'Shaw only made one first team appearance last season.' Lol the kid is only 16.
We are looking to keep our youngsters which is right.
We do need to bring in a couple of top league experienced heads before the season starts. I notice both West Ham and Reading are busy doing this. I am sure NA and NC have this in hand
Most nationals carry this story today. Theo and Bale were always going to go once we were relegated and didn't get straight back up. Also we wer desperate for cash. OXO's dad created the OXO situation. I think there is little doubt of that. Saints wanted to keep OXO and were under no pressure to sell other than the player himself, because of unrest created by his father. We have no need to sell and certainly not for a paltry four million. If the player is potentially as good as thought. The truth is that at Saints he knows he will get his chance, elsewhere he could be sat on the bench for 6 years. One paper announced 'Shaw only made one first team appearance last season.' Lol the kid is only 16. We are looking to keep our youngsters which is right. We do need to bring in a couple of top league experienced heads before the season starts. I notice both West Ham and Reading are busy doing this. I am sure NA and NC have this in hand milton road
  • Score: 0

12:07pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Mush On The Beach says...

I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil. A boy can dream can’t he? Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 0

12:26pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

St Retford wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
St Retford wrote:
up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.
I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.
It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.
Yes I am. I think the fact we were in Div1 at the time is irrelevant.

Oxo has youth, power, pace, a fantastic touch and an eye for goal to boot. He has just taken part in the Euros and I think, injuries apart, he could easily become a 50m valued player just like Bale is apparently.

Even with our ambitious owners I don't ever see us paying 50m for a player so to have quality of that level we have to produce our own.
[quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]up saints[/bold] wrote: sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again[/p][/quote]Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.[/p][/quote]I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.[/p][/quote]It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.[/p][/quote]Yes I am. I think the fact we were in Div1 at the time is irrelevant. Oxo has youth, power, pace, a fantastic touch and an eye for goal to boot. He has just taken part in the Euros and I think, injuries apart, he could easily become a 50m valued player just like Bale is apparently. Even with our ambitious owners I don't ever see us paying 50m for a player so to have quality of that level we have to produce our own. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Jannersaint says...

I think a few posters are missing the point with Buttner; he's as much cover from LM as he is for LB.
I think a few posters are missing the point with Buttner; he's as much cover from LM as he is for LB. Jannersaint
  • Score: 0

1:17pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Velleity says...

The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it?
.
Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team
.
Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick.
Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana.
.
Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something. Velleity
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate?
.
You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's.
.
I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players.
.
So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
[quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced. The Salv
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Sainty saint saint says...

The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right?

To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players... Sainty saint saint
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Tue 3 Jul 12

lowe esteem says...

The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate?
.
You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's.
.
I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players.
.
So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds?
Make your mind up, man!
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.[/p][/quote]This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man! lowe esteem
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Tue 3 Jul 12

mbetts says...

How can a 19 year old untested keeper be valued at over £6m and someone who's being touted as the future national left back only be valued at £4m? If this happens it'll be a major set-back in the clubs recent progress as it shows little or no real ambition, I hope we can convince him this is where his immediate future lies and in a couple of years time, hopefully get 3 or 4 times the current bid, he will go, the good ones always do, but only when the time is right for SFC.
How can a 19 year old untested keeper be valued at over £6m and someone who's being touted as the future national left back only be valued at £4m? If this happens it'll be a major set-back in the clubs recent progress as it shows little or no real ambition, I hope we can convince him this is where his immediate future lies and in a couple of years time, hopefully get 3 or 4 times the current bid, he will go, the good ones always do, but only when the time is right for SFC. mbetts
  • Score: 0

2:27pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?
Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil. A boy can dream can’t he?[/p][/quote]Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :) Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

2:29pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Confucious wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.
That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.
Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.
I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!
Spot on. Some on here are far too quick to deride sensible yet speculative contributions.

I pointed out at the weekend that since the pitch was relaid we have heard nothing from ANY source including the club about how the grass seed has fared in this bad weather. It's fine having a superbly strengthened Saints squad take the field against Wigan amidst all the global media glare that the Prem attracts - but NOT if we have a completely bald pitch.

My smart suggestion that thousands of bored close-season fans would happily pay £2 each to watch the grass grow from the Kingsland stand was also poo-pooed.

If you ask me mate, 90% of regular contributors on here are rather too fond of the bottle.
I'd definitely pay two quid to watch the SMS grass grow for a couple of hours.

Just as long as it's at kick-off on match days, of course!
[quote][p][bold]Confucious[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.[/p][/quote]That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.[/p][/quote]Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.[/p][/quote]I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum" . Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes? . If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it? . I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need![/p][/quote]Spot on. Some on here are far too quick to deride sensible yet speculative contributions. I pointed out at the weekend that since the pitch was relaid we have heard nothing from ANY source including the club about how the grass seed has fared in this bad weather. It's fine having a superbly strengthened Saints squad take the field against Wigan amidst all the global media glare that the Prem attracts - but NOT if we have a completely bald pitch. My smart suggestion that thousands of bored close-season fans would happily pay £2 each to watch the grass grow from the Kingsland stand was also poo-pooed. If you ask me mate, 90% of regular contributors on here are rather too fond of the bottle.[/p][/quote]I'd definitely pay two quid to watch the SMS grass grow for a couple of hours. Just as long as it's at kick-off on match days, of course! Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right?

To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
Exactly! Well put, Sainty Saint Saint
[quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]Exactly! Well put, Sainty Saint Saint Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Tue 3 Jul 12

truelysaints says...

Keep their thieving hands off, unless unless they want to pay 14M
Keep their thieving hands off, unless unless they want to pay 14M truelysaints
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Mush On The Beach says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?
Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)
The joy of being a dual passport holder, I’m English this week.
When Australians are losing to the English they don’t talk about it over here, it’s like the event never happened. :)
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil. A boy can dream can’t he?[/p][/quote]Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)[/p][/quote]The joy of being a dual passport holder, I’m English this week. When Australians are losing to the English they don’t talk about it over here, it’s like the event never happened. :) Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Tue 3 Jul 12

up saints says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
St Retford wrote:
Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
St Retford wrote:
up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again
Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.
I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.
It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.
Yes I am. I think the fact we were in Div1 at the time is irrelevant.

Oxo has youth, power, pace, a fantastic touch and an eye for goal to boot. He has just taken part in the Euros and I think, injuries apart, he could easily become a 50m valued player just like Bale is apparently.

Even with our ambitious owners I don't ever see us paying 50m for a player so to have quality of that level we have to produce our own.
if oxo is sold for 50mil be nice if we have a 90% sale on fee clause
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]up saints[/bold] wrote: sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again[/p][/quote]Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.[/p][/quote]I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.[/p][/quote]It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.[/p][/quote]Yes I am. I think the fact we were in Div1 at the time is irrelevant. Oxo has youth, power, pace, a fantastic touch and an eye for goal to boot. He has just taken part in the Euros and I think, injuries apart, he could easily become a 50m valued player just like Bale is apparently. Even with our ambitious owners I don't ever see us paying 50m for a player so to have quality of that level we have to produce our own.[/p][/quote]if oxo is sold for 50mil be nice if we have a 90% sale on fee clause up saints
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Tue 3 Jul 12

long memory says...

mbetts wrote:
How can a 19 year old untested keeper be valued at over £6m and someone who's being touted as the future national left back only be valued at £4m? If this happens it'll be a major set-back in the clubs recent progress as it shows little or no real ambition, I hope we can convince him this is where his immediate future lies and in a couple of years time, hopefully get 3 or 4 times the current bid, he will go, the good ones always do, but only when the time is right for SFC.
You say the good ones always do leave, better explain your comment to le Tiss and Adam.
[quote][p][bold]mbetts[/bold] wrote: How can a 19 year old untested keeper be valued at over £6m and someone who's being touted as the future national left back only be valued at £4m? If this happens it'll be a major set-back in the clubs recent progress as it shows little or no real ambition, I hope we can convince him this is where his immediate future lies and in a couple of years time, hopefully get 3 or 4 times the current bid, he will go, the good ones always do, but only when the time is right for SFC.[/p][/quote]You say the good ones always do leave, better explain your comment to le Tiss and Adam. long memory
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Tue 3 Jul 12

anderoo says...

Saints hae dismised rumours linking Luke Shaw with a transfer from th club
Source: SSN
Saints hae dismised rumours linking Luke Shaw with a transfer from th club Source: SSN anderoo
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Velleity says...

The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate?
.
You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's.
.
I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players.
.
So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
Ah, OK.

I listed the England team as an EXAMPLE, which, believe it or not, I picked at random because of the current age of the payers in it. Now that team was the cream of the whole country, so I thought it might be representative. You've taken possibly the best ever Saints youth side, so let's take a look at them.

Andrew McNeil – Livingstone
Craig Richards – Whitehawk FC in the Ryman League Division One South
Sean Rudd – No first team appearances, unsuccessful trials and now not playing
Martin Cranie - Coventry
Sebastian Wallis-Tayler - CA Lisieux (non-league)
Lloyd James - Colchester
Tim Sparv - FC Groningen – Dutch div 1
Theo Walcott - Arsenal
Nathan Dyer - Swansea
Leon Best - Newcastle
Feliciano Condesso - Ontinyent CF
David McGoldrick – Notts Forest
Josh Dutton-Black – North Leigh
Ashlee Jones - Braintree
Gareth Bale - Spurs
Adam Lallana - Saints

So, out of sixteen in a year that you've picked specifically because it contained successes, we have six who are currently playing Premiership football. So, under 40% of the best of our academy in possibly the best year it ever experienced (the year you've cherry picked) have gone on to the Premiership.

In order that you understand the point I'm making, it's that form at 16/17 does not necessarily lead to glory. That's all. I'm not trying to claim that no-one does, just that here's no guarantee.

So, if NA thinks we'll get more for him than he's worth, we should sell him.

Point taken?
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.[/p][/quote]Ah, OK. I listed the England team as an EXAMPLE, which, believe it or not, I picked at random because of the current age of the payers in it. Now that team was the cream of the whole country, so I thought it might be representative. You've taken possibly the best ever Saints youth side, so let's take a look at them. Andrew McNeil – Livingstone Craig Richards – Whitehawk FC in the Ryman League Division One South Sean Rudd – No first team appearances, unsuccessful trials and now not playing Martin Cranie - Coventry Sebastian Wallis-Tayler - CA Lisieux (non-league) Lloyd James - Colchester Tim Sparv - FC Groningen – Dutch div 1 Theo Walcott - Arsenal Nathan Dyer - Swansea Leon Best - Newcastle Feliciano Condesso - Ontinyent CF David McGoldrick – Notts Forest Josh Dutton-Black – North Leigh Ashlee Jones - Braintree Gareth Bale - Spurs Adam Lallana - Saints So, out of sixteen in a year that you've picked specifically because it contained successes, we have six who are currently playing Premiership football. So, under 40% of the best of our academy in possibly the best year it ever experienced (the year you've cherry picked) have gone on to the Premiership. In order that you understand the point I'm making, it's that form at 16/17 does not necessarily lead to glory. That's all. I'm not trying to claim that no-one does, just that here's no guarantee. So, if NA thinks we'll get more for him than he's worth, we should sell him. Point taken? Velleity
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?
Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)
The joy of being a dual passport holder, I’m English this week.
When Australians are losing to the English they don’t talk about it over here, it’s like the event never happened. :)
I found that out when I lived in Melbourne. When the Lions came good in 1989, no one in Melbourne was interested in Union, 'we only play Aussie Rules down here' they told me.

Come the 1991 World Cup, I was constatntly reminded how good the Wallabies were.

Still, I loved the banter, love the Aussies, and love beating them/you at cricket.
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil. A boy can dream can’t he?[/p][/quote]Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)[/p][/quote]The joy of being a dual passport holder, I’m English this week. When Australians are losing to the English they don’t talk about it over here, it’s like the event never happened. :)[/p][/quote]I found that out when I lived in Melbourne. When the Lions came good in 1989, no one in Melbourne was interested in Union, 'we only play Aussie Rules down here' they told me. Come the 1991 World Cup, I was constatntly reminded how good the Wallabies were. Still, I loved the banter, love the Aussies, and love beating them/you at cricket. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Over the Edge says...

Mr Cortese said in an interview about the academy recently, he hoped to do it the Barcelona way, he explained that each year, Saints would keep one or two young players, sell a few and let some go, here's hoping the lad is one of one's Mr Cortese wants to keep.

Judging by that interview, I think Mr Cortese ambition for the club is too keep the potential superstars we have for ourselves and lets the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and both Manchester find their own youngsters and leave ours alone.

In Nicola I trust
Mr Cortese said in an interview about the academy recently, he hoped to do it the Barcelona way, he explained that each year, Saints would keep one or two young players, sell a few and let some go, here's hoping the lad is one of one's Mr Cortese wants to keep. Judging by that interview, I think Mr Cortese ambition for the club is too keep the potential superstars we have for ourselves and lets the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and both Manchester find their own youngsters and leave ours alone. In Nicola I trust Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
Ah, OK. I listed the England team as an EXAMPLE, which, believe it or not, I picked at random because of the current age of the payers in it. Now that team was the cream of the whole country, so I thought it might be representative. You've taken possibly the best ever Saints youth side, so let's take a look at them. Andrew McNeil – Livingstone Craig Richards – Whitehawk FC in the Ryman League Division One South Sean Rudd – No first team appearances, unsuccessful trials and now not playing Martin Cranie - Coventry Sebastian Wallis-Tayler - CA Lisieux (non-league) Lloyd James - Colchester Tim Sparv - FC Groningen – Dutch div 1 Theo Walcott - Arsenal Nathan Dyer - Swansea Leon Best - Newcastle Feliciano Condesso - Ontinyent CF David McGoldrick – Notts Forest Josh Dutton-Black – North Leigh Ashlee Jones - Braintree Gareth Bale - Spurs Adam Lallana - Saints So, out of sixteen in a year that you've picked specifically because it contained successes, we have six who are currently playing Premiership football. So, under 40% of the best of our academy in possibly the best year it ever experienced (the year you've cherry picked) have gone on to the Premiership. In order that you understand the point I'm making, it's that form at 16/17 does not necessarily lead to glory. That's all. I'm not trying to claim that no-one does, just that here's no guarantee. So, if NA thinks we'll get more for him than he's worth, we should sell him. Point taken?
Not really cherry picked, they were really the first wave to come through since the new investment into the academy so expect the same.
.
I would say that’s pretty good form to say that Shaw has a very good chance of becoming a successful Premiership player.
.
Give him a go. What a perfect opportunity for the lad and Fox in that position too who may surprise a few.
[quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.[/p][/quote]Ah, OK. I listed the England team as an EXAMPLE, which, believe it or not, I picked at random because of the current age of the payers in it. Now that team was the cream of the whole country, so I thought it might be representative. You've taken possibly the best ever Saints youth side, so let's take a look at them. Andrew McNeil – Livingstone Craig Richards – Whitehawk FC in the Ryman League Division One South Sean Rudd – No first team appearances, unsuccessful trials and now not playing Martin Cranie - Coventry Sebastian Wallis-Tayler - CA Lisieux (non-league) Lloyd James - Colchester Tim Sparv - FC Groningen – Dutch div 1 Theo Walcott - Arsenal Nathan Dyer - Swansea Leon Best - Newcastle Feliciano Condesso - Ontinyent CF David McGoldrick – Notts Forest Josh Dutton-Black – North Leigh Ashlee Jones - Braintree Gareth Bale - Spurs Adam Lallana - Saints So, out of sixteen in a year that you've picked specifically because it contained successes, we have six who are currently playing Premiership football. So, under 40% of the best of our academy in possibly the best year it ever experienced (the year you've cherry picked) have gone on to the Premiership. In order that you understand the point I'm making, it's that form at 16/17 does not necessarily lead to glory. That's all. I'm not trying to claim that no-one does, just that here's no guarantee. So, if NA thinks we'll get more for him than he's worth, we should sell him. Point taken?[/p][/quote]Not really cherry picked, they were really the first wave to come through since the new investment into the academy so expect the same. . I would say that’s pretty good form to say that Shaw has a very good chance of becoming a successful Premiership player. . Give him a go. What a perfect opportunity for the lad and Fox in that position too who may surprise a few. The Salv
  • Score: 0

4:33pm Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

lowe esteem wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man!
How does it?
.
We can either by an unproven dutch player for 2 million or use our academy product who is also unproven but highly rated.
.
Like I said this is a perfect example now actually, may aswell pay a little more and get an established player or go with Shaw and Fox.
[quote][p][bold]lowe esteem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.[/p][/quote]This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man![/p][/quote]How does it? . We can either by an unproven dutch player for 2 million or use our academy product who is also unproven but highly rated. . Like I said this is a perfect example now actually, may aswell pay a little more and get an established player or go with Shaw and Fox. The Salv
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

anderoo wrote:
Saints hae dismised rumours linking Luke Shaw with a transfer from th club
Source: SSN
That's the end of this rumour then. But it's rumoured that a new rumour is being prepared in the Echo office for tomorrow. It's just gossip and hearsay at present, but the speculative whisper being passed around on a nod and wink basis is that in fact another rumour has already been cooked up - so it's more than just tittle-tattle and idle flibbertigibbet.

I hope the Echo will confirm or deny this quickly or this site will soon be cluttered up with rumours about what the new rumour is.
[quote][p][bold]anderoo[/bold] wrote: Saints hae dismised rumours linking Luke Shaw with a transfer from th club Source: SSN[/p][/quote]That's the end of this rumour then. But it's rumoured that a new rumour is being prepared in the Echo office for tomorrow. It's just gossip and hearsay at present, but the speculative whisper being passed around on a nod and wink basis is that in fact another rumour has already been cooked up - so it's more than just tittle-tattle and idle flibbertigibbet. I hope the Echo will confirm or deny this quickly or this site will soon be cluttered up with rumours about what the new rumour is. Confucious
  • Score: 0

4:47pm Tue 3 Jul 12

The Salv says...

Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.
[quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership! . Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones. The Salv
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Invidia says...

I would have thought that Chelsea would be the last team to want Luke Shaw as they arguably have the best left back in the world and I believe that his young understudy is no mug either, unless Chelsea are going to sell Ashley Cole in which case I would have thought that they would go for a proven Left back. Yet again I believe that this is pure speculation as we all know the papers have to print something and at this time of the year there is very little to write about, so they make it up.
I would have thought that Chelsea would be the last team to want Luke Shaw as they arguably have the best left back in the world and I believe that his young understudy is no mug either, unless Chelsea are going to sell Ashley Cole in which case I would have thought that they would go for a proven Left back. Yet again I believe that this is pure speculation as we all know the papers have to print something and at this time of the year there is very little to write about, so they make it up. Invidia
  • Score: 0

5:41pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

The Salv wrote:
Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.
You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice.

Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere.

Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young:

Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen).

P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best.

P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts!
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership! . Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.[/p][/quote]You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice. Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere. Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young: Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen). P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best. P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts! Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

5:49pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Strasbourg Saint says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.
You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice.

Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere.

Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young:

Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen).

P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best.

P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts!
"we're"???!!!

Sorry, typed too fast. Should read, "where are".
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership! . Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.[/p][/quote]You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice. Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere. Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young: Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen). P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best. P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts![/p][/quote]"we're"???!!! Sorry, typed too fast. Should read, "where are". Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Tue 3 Jul 12

slugger says...

this won't happen , not a snowball in hell's chance !
this won't happen , not a snowball in hell's chance ! slugger
  • Score: 0

6:55pm Tue 3 Jul 12

yorkshire-exile says...

Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan yorkshire-exile
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Tue 3 Jul 12

andysaints007 says...

The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.
But Luke Shaw is the 'recognised international player' that you seemed so keen on yesterday!!!
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.[/p][/quote]But Luke Shaw is the 'recognised international player' that you seemed so keen on yesterday!!! andysaints007
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Tue 3 Jul 12

slugger says...

yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan
like
[quote][p][bold]yorkshire-exile[/bold] wrote: Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan[/p][/quote]like slugger
  • Score: 0

8:26pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Confucious says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.
You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice.

Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere.

Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young:

Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen).

P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best.

P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts!
I am indubitably certain and can provide a cast iron 100%guarantee that I am not sure about anything.
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership! . Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.[/p][/quote]You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice. Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere. Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young: Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen). P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best. P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts![/p][/quote]I am indubitably certain and can provide a cast iron 100%guarantee that I am not sure about anything. Confucious
  • Score: 0

10:41pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

slugger wrote:
yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan
like
That
[quote][p][bold]slugger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshire-exile[/bold] wrote: Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan[/p][/quote]like[/p][/quote]That Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 0

11:10pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Baddesley Bill says...

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
slugger wrote:
yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan
like
That
post ...(see what I did there)
[quote][p][bold]Seedhouse the Unrepentant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]slugger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yorkshire-exile[/bold] wrote: Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan[/p][/quote]like[/p][/quote]That[/p][/quote]post ...(see what I did there) Baddesley Bill
  • Score: 0

11:24pm Tue 3 Jul 12

Gossie. says...

So, whats the idea around an all red kit, is it so Rickie stays with us and doesn't up and leave for Liverpool
So, whats the idea around an all red kit, is it so Rickie stays with us and doesn't up and leave for Liverpool Gossie.
  • Score: 0

12:23am Wed 4 Jul 12

Baddesley Bill says...

Trying to book 3 x season tickets on the OS...possibly the least user friendly and annoying on-line experience I have ever had...I'm trying to spend a hat-load of money ffs!
Trying to book 3 x season tickets on the OS...possibly the least user friendly and annoying on-line experience I have ever had...I'm trying to spend a hat-load of money ffs! Baddesley Bill
  • Score: 0

12:43am Wed 4 Jul 12

saint79 says...

St Retford wrote:
SaintPC wrote: I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level. They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years. The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey. The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up. i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.
This. A lot.
Here here. I couldnt have put it better myself.
[quote][p][bold]St Retford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SaintPC[/bold] wrote: I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level. They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years. The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey. The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up. i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.[/p][/quote]This. A lot.[/p][/quote]Here here. I couldnt have put it better myself. saint79
  • Score: 0

8:23am Wed 4 Jul 12

Sainty saint saint says...

The Salv wrote:
Sainty saint saint wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.
That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.
I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...
How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.
I think that YOU'RE missing the point (on purpose as you try desperately to cover a bad judgment call!)

It's got very little to do with Eredivisie and La Liga - the fact is this guy made the top 36 DUTCH players (regardless of the league they play in).

So he's good enough to be picked for the provisional national squad, not just the 'Eredivisie Rep side' (many of the Dutch team, I'm sure you're aware, don't play in the Eredivisie).

What I'm trying to say is that someone who is pretty near good enough to play for one of the best national teams in the world (well, in theory) should be 'guaranteed' good enough for the Premier League regardless of whether he's 'unproven' in that particular league (or, perhaps a better way of putting it, he's more or as likely good enough than an under 17 England player to have the technical ability, pace and skill for the Premier League).
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sainty saint saint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alicesdad[/bold] wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.[/p][/quote]That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.[/p][/quote]I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...[/p][/quote]How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership! . Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.[/p][/quote]I think that YOU'RE missing the point (on purpose as you try desperately to cover a bad judgment call!) It's got very little to do with Eredivisie and La Liga - the fact is this guy made the top 36 DUTCH players (regardless of the league they play in). So he's good enough to be picked for the provisional national squad, not just the 'Eredivisie Rep side' (many of the Dutch team, I'm sure you're aware, don't play in the Eredivisie). What I'm trying to say is that someone who is pretty near good enough to play for one of the best national teams in the world (well, in theory) should be 'guaranteed' good enough for the Premier League regardless of whether he's 'unproven' in that particular league (or, perhaps a better way of putting it, he's more or as likely good enough than an under 17 England player to have the technical ability, pace and skill for the Premier League). Sainty saint saint
  • Score: 0

2:42pm Thu 5 Jul 12

lowe esteem says...

The Salv wrote:
lowe esteem wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote:
The Salv wrote:
Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.
But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?
Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.
Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.
This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man!
How does it?
.
We can either by an unproven dutch player for 2 million or use our academy product who is also unproven but highly rated.
.
Like I said this is a perfect example now actually, may aswell pay a little more and get an established player or go with Shaw and Fox.
You actually know little about both but less about the Dutchmann though?
[quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lowe esteem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Salv[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Velleity[/bold] wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?[/p][/quote]Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.[/p][/quote]Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.[/p][/quote]This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man![/p][/quote]How does it? . We can either by an unproven dutch player for 2 million or use our academy product who is also unproven but highly rated. . Like I said this is a perfect example now actually, may aswell pay a little more and get an established player or go with Shaw and Fox.[/p][/quote]You actually know little about both but less about the Dutchmann though? lowe esteem
  • Score: 0

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