Chelsea to bid £4m for Saints teenager? (From Daily Echo)

The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.

Alicesdad wrote:

The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.

Makes sense.

Confucious wrote:
I think I've made us safe on this one guys. I have told his mum that if he leaves us everyone will be calling him a son of a ****.

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

saintnicholas wrote:
I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...

Condor Man wrote:
Why waste money on players from inferior leagues like Holland?

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

Confucious wrote:

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

The Salv wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not.
.
If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven.
.
Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.

Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.

St Retford wrote:

Confucious wrote:

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.

My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.

Jesus_02 wrote:

St Retford wrote:

Confucious wrote:

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.

My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.

I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)

Jesus_02 wrote:

St Retford wrote:

Confucious wrote:

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.

My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.

I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)

Velleity wrote:
When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

The Salv wrote:

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.

Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.

I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

Jesus_02 wrote:

St Retford wrote:

Confucious wrote:

St Retford wrote:
Four million? You couldn't even get Sandy Shaw for that.

My uncle Wei has Rick Shaw available for £2300.

My uncle reckons he's got the remains of George Bernard Shaw in an urn on his mantlepiece. He'd definitely take £4m if anyone's interested.

I have this aunt, well she sells sea shells on the see Shaw for 4 (million that is)

All of which reminds me of a question which has been bugging me for years.

Martin Shaw? Bodie or Doyle?

St Retford wrote:

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again

Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Does anyone actually know how good he is?

saintnicholas wrote:
I know Luke Shaw and his family. He's 100% happy with where he is, sees Saints as a long-term Premiership home for him to showcase his skills and has no desire to leave. Move on Echo, nothing to see here...

The Salv wrote:

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.

Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.

I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

St Retford wrote:

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again

Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.

I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.

SaintPC wrote:
I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level.

They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years.

The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey.

The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up.

i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future

I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.

St Retford wrote:

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

St Retford wrote:

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again

Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.

I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.

It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:
When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it?
.
Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team
.
Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick.
Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana.
.
Point taken?

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

Ok I will elaborate?
.
You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's.
.
I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players.
.
So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?

Confucious wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

That's the plan which got us into a mess at the foot of the Championship a few years ago and probably arrested the development of some of our promising youngsters of the time. It's one thing to gradually bring players into the first team but there's a huge gap between the reserves and holding down a regular place in a Prem/Championship team. With the exception of Kelvin (who had a dreadful time at Sunderland anyway), there's not ONE Saints player who IS tested at this level. Like most fans, I've not seen either in action, but if, in our first match at Man City, you asked me whether I'd prefer to see Luke Shaw or Alexander Buttner at left back, it would be Buttner every time.

That was a completely different situation. The club only relied on youth products, some were good enough, others not. . If we have got a youth product that is good enough to be in the first team then play him, we have Fox in that position too so there is good competition in that position. Fox = unproven, Shaw = unproven, Dutch league player = unproven. . Either sign a established player or give what we have a go.

Don't you think the club will when they think he is ready? Hasn't the chairman announced that he wants the majority of the squad to be homegrown? I would rather trust the judgement of those who have worked with him since he was a kid and have been grooming him for the first team together with NA and NC than I would a poster on a message board saying 'chuck him in now'. Like us they want him there as soon as possible, unlike us they have the full facts and it is their decision to make.

I think you fail to understand the concept of a "forum"
.
Am I in charge of SFC? Is what I say on here going to have any affect on the decision the club makes?
.
If David Cameron makes a decision in Parliament do we except it or question it?
.
I am Just a fan with an opinion that I am sharing, my personal thoughts would be to play the kid alongside Fox. Spend the 2 million elsewhere like on a Goalkeeper, something we do need!

Spot on. Some on here are far too quick to deride sensible yet speculative contributions.

I pointed out at the weekend that since the pitch was relaid we have heard nothing from ANY source including the club about how the grass seed has fared in this bad weather. It's fine having a superbly strengthened Saints squad take the field against Wigan amidst all the global media glare that the Prem attracts - but NOT if we have a completely bald pitch.

My smart suggestion that thousands of bored close-season fans would happily pay £2 each to watch the grass grow from the Kingsland stand was also poo-pooed.

If you ask me mate, 90% of regular contributors on here are rather too fond of the bottle.

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote:
This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right?

To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?

Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

St Retford wrote:

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

St Retford wrote:

up saints wrote:
sold wallcot bale and oxo for peanuts don;t think nigel & co will be going down that road again

Walcott and Bale, yes. I don't think Oxo went for peanuts though.

I think time will prove you very very wrong St Ret.

It usually does. Are you saying £12m/£15m (whatever it was) will look like a bargain for him? Maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty decent fee for a League 1 player.

Yes I am. I think the fact we were in Div1 at the time is irrelevant.

Oxo has youth, power, pace, a fantastic touch and an eye for goal to boot. He has just taken part in the Euros and I think, injuries apart, he could easily become a 50m valued player just like Bale is apparently.

Even with our ambitious owners I don't ever see us paying 50m for a player so to have quality of that level we have to produce our own.

mbetts wrote:
How can a 19 year old untested keeper be valued at over £6m and someone who's being touted as the future national left back only be valued at £4m? If this happens it'll be a major set-back in the clubs recent progress as it shows little or no real ambition, I hope we can convince him this is where his immediate future lies and in a couple of years time, hopefully get 3 or 4 times the current bid, he will go, the good ones always do, but only when the time is right for SFC.

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

Ok I will elaborate?
.
You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's.
.
I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players.
.
So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.

Mush On The Beach wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think the lad would be poorly advised to believe he would be fast tracking his career by joining a club like Chelski at this stage. His time will come sooner rather than later here and he will be able to shine and fulfil all his dreams. St Marys is the place to be for aspiring young talent. Roy Hodgson will be seen here regularly over the next 2 seasons with the Saints boys forming the backbone of the New England era in Brazil.

A boy can dream can’t he?

Hey, Mush! How's the cricket going? :)

The joy of being a dual passport holder, I’m English this week.
When Australians are losing to the English they don’t talk about it over here, it’s like the event never happened. :)

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.

Ah, OK. I listed the England team as an EXAMPLE, which, believe it or not, I picked at random because of the current age of the payers in it. Now that team was the cream of the whole country, so I thought it might be representative. You've taken possibly the best ever Saints youth side, so let's take a look at them. Andrew McNeil – Livingstone Craig Richards – Whitehawk FC in the Ryman League Division One South Sean Rudd – No first team appearances, unsuccessful trials and now not playing Martin Cranie - Coventry Sebastian Wallis-Tayler - CA Lisieux (non-league) Lloyd James - Colchester Tim Sparv - FC Groningen – Dutch div 1 Theo Walcott - Arsenal Nathan Dyer - Swansea Leon Best - Newcastle Feliciano Condesso - Ontinyent CF David McGoldrick – Notts Forest Josh Dutton-Black – North Leigh Ashlee Jones - Braintree Gareth Bale - Spurs Adam Lallana - Saints So, out of sixteen in a year that you've picked specifically because it contained successes, we have six who are currently playing Premiership football. So, under 40% of the best of our academy in possibly the best year it ever experienced (the year you've cherry picked) have gone on to the Premiership. In order that you understand the point I'm making, it's that form at 16/17 does not necessarily lead to glory. That's all. I'm not trying to claim that no-one does, just that here's no guarantee. So, if NA thinks we'll get more for him than he's worth, we should sell him. Point taken?

lowe esteem wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.

This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man!

anderoo wrote:
Saints hae dismised rumours linking Luke Shaw with a transfer from th club
Source: SSN

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

The Salv wrote:

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.

You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice.

Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere.

Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young:

Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen).

P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best.

P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts!

The Salv wrote:
No No No, if this youth product is that good get him in the first team and get Fox fighting for his position alongside him rather than spend 2 million on that Dutch guy.

yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.

You're clearly a bright guy, Salv, and defend your point well but I think you're doing the Eredivisie an injustice.

Not only is the Ajax academy somewhere near the best in the world, on top of what that produces, there are many other top players regularly coming through that league and making it elsewhere.

Here's a few of Holland's Euro 2012 squad who came through various Eredivisie youth set ups. I wouldn't mind a few of these 'established' players now, bigger teams than Saints took a punt on them when they were still young:

Joris Mathijsen (Willem II Tilburg), Wilfred Bouma (PSV), Dirk Kuyt (Quick Boys & Utrecht), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (De Graafschap), Arjen Robben (Groningen).

P.S. We're the Dutch Saints? They usually know these players best.

P.P.S. Confucious, flibbertigibbet. Top word, but stop scuttlebutting and give us some facts!

slugger wrote:

yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan

like

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

slugger wrote:

yorkshire-exile wrote:
Just 2 names to think about Tom Taiwo and Michael Woods were both pinched from the Leeds Utd acadamy back in 2006. The big money and bright lights were all too much for the parents of these boys. Leeds fought and won compo to the tune of £5m for the pair. Tom Taiwo is now a free agent after being released by Carlisle and Michael Woods is a non contract player at Yeovil. So my advice to this saints lad is to stay where you are and learn your trade at Saints. They are a team that are going places, and all this from a Leeds fan

like

That

St Retford wrote:

SaintPC wrote: I think we need to get a perspective on what the club is looking to do. We aren't looking to the short-term, we are building for the medium-long-very long term. This means that we will be looking to bring in young, hungry, talented players with bags of potential but most likely "unproven" at this level. They will then be slowly blooded into the current squad of players in the hope that we survive next year and gradually build over the next 2-3 years. The simple fact is that if we get relegated next season it isn't the end of the world or the end of the journey. The principle is to get the right foundations, squad, and approach - from the ground up. We have that flowing at the moment and we need to maintain that momentum. What we dont need to do is throw out all of the principles that we have built thus far with the short-termism of signing so called "proven" players just to stay up. i.e. I would take Rodriguez over Yakubu every day of the week. Its right for the future I would take Buttland for 8m over Craig Gordon for free.

This. A lot.

The Salv wrote:

Sainty saint saint wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Alicesdad wrote: This is a prime example of not knowing how good the lad is just yet. The talk of £4m is just a load of puff though. He is untested and that is why Nigel has to get proven cover, hence the dutch guy interest. This situation screams for him to be loaned out for a couple of months, see what happens, then assess the long term propsects. If he turns out to be top class then 4m would be an insult anyway!! Tell the Russian to wave his wad elsewhere.

That Dutch guy is just as untested and just as risky. If Shaw is good enough he's old enough, get him in the team and get him playing. Spend 2 million or play your youth product, I know which one I would rather do.

I wouldn't say that someone who made the provisional Dutch national squad is 'unproven' - maybe unproven in the premiership, but so is Messi and we'd have him right? To be one of the 36 top Dutch footballers right now is pretty good going isn't it? Especially when they have the likes of Robben, Affaley, Scheider and Willems as their left-sided players...

How can you compare La Liga with Eredivisie. Like trying to compare the Scottish League with Premiership!
.
Dont miss the point I am making though, we have Shaw who is unproven, if we are going to spend money then buy established players not more unproven ones.

The Salv wrote:

lowe esteem wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote:

The Salv wrote:

Velleity wrote: When I hear about the sale of a 17-year old being a disaster for Saints, I remember the following bit of research. I looked it up when I was arguing that a lot of promising youngsters go on to do nothing at all. --- Here's the England U-17 squad from 2002 - they are all 25/26 now, so in the prime of their careers. Only one of them stands out as having done well (sic). Remember, these were the cream of the crop of 16 and 17 year old English players at the time. 1. Steven Drench – Guiseley 2. James Biggins – ? 3. Gary Borrowdale – QPR 4. Ross Gardner - Shildon 5. David Raven – Shrewsbury Town, trialling for Tranmere 6. Chris Hogg – Inverness Caledonian 7. Wayne Routledge – Swansea 8. Lee Croft – Derby 9. Wayne Rooney – Man U 10. Stacy Long – Stevenage 11. Mark Smyth – Bangor 12. Mat Sadler – Walsall 13. Nicky Eyre - ? 14. David Mannix – Vauxhall Motors 15. Tom Groves - ? 16. Scott Brown – York City 17. Dorryl Proffitt - ? 18. Sean Doherty – Colwyn Bay A real bunch of world-beaters, I'm sure you'll agree. --- I'll also agree that Alex O-C looks like he might go on to better things but you do need to bear in mind that many don't. If Saints can get more for Luke Shaw than we belive he's worth, we should sell him. Then we should spend the money on someone we think is undervalued. Simply business, I'm afraid.

But that isnt the Saints Youth team is it? . Here is the Saints 2005 Youth Cup Final Team . Andrew McNeil, Craig Richards, Sean Rudd, Martin Cranie, Sebastian Wallis-Tayler, Lloyd James, Tim Sparv, Theo Walcott, Nathan Dyer, Leon Best (Feliciano Condesso, 83), David McGoldrick. Subs not used: Josh Dutton-Black, Ashlee Jones, Gareth Bale, Adam Lallana. . Point taken?

Is there a point in there to take? You've just listed the 2005 Youth Final team. I must be missing something.

Ok I will elaborate? . You were comparing England U17's when really are talking about Southampton U17's. . I listed the Saints youth team as you did the England youth team and you will see that we had many players that went onto become decent players. . So to make a direct comparison of what Shaw may become you need to look at the previous Saints youth players and not players that other clubs have produced.

This also flies in the face of your other theory of getting "proven at this level" players in for now-what shall we do with all the others, then? Perhaps we could get some Chelski players in for your 'ready-now' 16 year olds? Make your mind up, man!

How does it?
.
We can either by an unproven dutch player for 2 million or use our academy product who is also unproven but highly rated.
.
Like I said this is a perfect example now actually, may aswell pay a little more and get an established player or go with Shaw and Fox.